I'm new at this so please excuse me if I say or do anything that's not right. I'm not even sure that I'll know how to find answers to my topic but if nothing else this gives me an opportunity to write things out. I guess one of the reasons why I'm writing is because I've read so much on the internet, on this website, and in books but haven't really found anything for my situation. I know there will probably not be anything exactly like my situation but you know it helps even more to talk to those in the same situation. NOt sure where to begin but I will.........

I am 29 years old and have been married a little over 10 years and have no children. My husband is 33 years old and I discovered on 2/10/04 that he was having an affair. Again, our situation is unlike most and i'm not sure how much detail to go into for the sake of space and time. But for starters I have been living in another state since last september due to a job and the fact that my husband was supposed to be joining me in may after he graduated from college. We have had a rough road, we almost separated a few years ago because we both seemed unhappy and at my suggestion to separate he said okay.

The minute I said it I regretted it and sought out what I could do to change my behavior to make things work. We still lived in the same house but just treated each other as friends and even had what he called "single sex." My husband said that I didn't even act like I liked him, that I wasn't affectionate to him, and that I seemed to be disappointed in him. Of course, once I realized how much I making him miserable, I changed my behavior. It actually wasn't that hard, I just made a conscious effort to be more of aware of the things I said or things I did. He does agree that I changed but now he says that it was such a shock and after we had agreed to separate that a switch went off and that even though we stayed together the switch just didn't come back on and says it won't. That he wants to be happy and he doesn't think he can be that way with me.

I guess I kind of always had fears of him being with someone else becasue I know my husband is "fragile" but I still didn't do anything about it and just lied to myself that wouldn't happen to us. I guess I still didn't realize fully to the extent the effects I was causing when I didn't iniate anything with him. I always kind of took charge in our marriage and acted as if my goals were ours. Last september I separated from the military because I had had enough and could stay in any longer because of my weight (I wasn't kicked out). I took a job in another state like I said above because I thought we would be moving there due to us liking the area and all the opprtunities it had to offer the both of us.

Sadly, in my husband's fall semester class he met someone who seemed to be the answer to his problems and they began becoming serious in november and a sexual relationship developed soon after. I had some suspicions when at christmas he came to visit and we tried to be intimate and he wasn't able to get an erection no matter how much I tried. But I still thought maybe it was related to his smoking or at least that is what I told myself. When I went to where he is (our house) in january I again attributed his lack of emotion, etc. as stress related.

I'm actually kind of a detective and knew he had a few different email accounts and found some emails from a long time ago that he had sent they actually were relatively mild but I was going to confront him with it. He called me to check in and he sounded really blahh and I just kind of said "do you want a divorce?" and he didn't say no. he didn't really come out and say yes but proceeded to talk about how he is not good enough for me........we agreed to talk again in a couple of days but I was actually going to try and drive there in person.

The next day I got into one of his other email accounts and found some emails that were definitely the most horrible things I've read in my life. I left work and drove all night to confront him. I did and it went as probably everyone can imagine......I wanted to know the details and talk about what we could do to make things right. It was the most terrible time in my life. He truly feels that he can't be happy with me and that he really cares for this OW even after this short time period. The OW by the way is a single 21 year old college student whom I've never met. He says he does love and care for me.

I thought unrealistically if I had confronted him, he would end it and I also thought that if I took a bottle of pills in front of him that he would understand how much he meant to me. All that ended up happening was me in the ER going through another horrible experience and probably causing my husband to think he needed to get away from me even more. I did make him call her while I was on the other phone but when he told her she actually didn't believe that I knew or that I was even there. Of course I said some profanities and she hung up the phone.

We talked a lot over the next couple of days, mostly me, saying things I should have said a long time ago and him too. He just wanted me to let him go and before I did return to where I'm living now I did say I would because I do want him to be happy but all the while I was and am hoping that by doing that he will return to me. During one of our talks he asked me "what about her?" and I just said that I would be lying if I said anything except that I didn't want to see her. I had to leave to go back to work but I wasn't ready to.

I wrote him this long letter when I got back to where I'm living and poured my heart out. he called me a couple of days ago to say that he got the letter but he wanted me to understand that he couldn't go back. I tried to act like I understood and tried to end the conversation. He thanked me for the letter and said it was very poignant and I thanked him for reading it. I had written a bunch of other letters that I was going to send periodically but I won't now because now I know they are just going to sound desperate and needy.

I will be going back to our house where he is living next month while he is on spring break in order to do some things but I'm not sure what to say or how to act. We are not headed for divorce court there are still lots of things to deal with, he's still in school, we still own a house which we were planning to sell anyway, we have a couple of dogs, etc. But he's anxious to start looking for an apartment in that area so that he can get used to supporting himself.

I guess my questions are related to the fact that his OW is not married, we don't have any kids, and we were already living apart (which I thought was only temporary) and that he's already decided it's over and has no intention on getting back together. He says now that he's not graduating until the summer now, I don't know how long he's really known that but I know that he's known for at least a few months now that he was never going to join me in this other state. I'm afraid of anything i say or do will be interpreted a certain way and I want is for my husband to end the A and want to be with me again.

I know that I shouldn't contact him a lot. But with my situation what do I do? My family and his family acutally are very supportive of me. His mom who flew down to our house as soon as he told her I took some pills, even said that he doesn't deserve me and that he's not worth it. I feel all the other posting related to situations with children involved, 2 married people are having the affair, or at least the WS wanted to work things out. Thanks in advance. I know it's a long rough road ahead but my goal is never going to change.

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

Every situation is somewhat different but don't worry about that...keep reading and looking for the similarities...there are lots in your situation too.

Note: break your posts into paragraphs to make them easier to read!

Okay...I am extremely pressed for time or I'd write you a long post...they are my trademark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Really really quickly:

1. Do Plan A...no different than anyone else.

2. STOP all talk of ending things, divorce etc. Take this to heart: if you say something, you bring it legitimacy. So STOP mentioning downer stuff...say it here, say it to support network...get it off your chest. But not with him...

3. Read my post on communication. This is supposed to add to the basic stuff already here on this site so you need to find that too and read it. Absorb it.

Goal #1: improve your communication techniques.

4. Relax and take a deep breath. This will all take time. Get yourself into a better place (ie. headspace) before you do any more damage. Screaming at OW on the phone may have made you feel better in the short term but that's about all the good news I can give you on that account!

5. This is NOT about OW...it is about you and your H. The sooner you accept that to the core of your being, the better off you will be.

6. I will try to get back here soon and post on emotional detachment. You need to do that. Otherwise you will drive yourself crazy.

Hope that's enough to get you started...your situation is not as unusual as you think it is...I thought mine was too...sadly, there seems to be an international script for WS to follow...take heart from success stories and techniques that work...

Hang in there...awed

<small>[ February 24, 2004, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: awed18 ]</small>

thanks! I'll break up the paragraphs next time and I'll try to read what you've suggested. What's kind of sad on one hand is that there is a lot of information out there which means a lot of people have experienced the same thing. God Bless

thanks! I'll break up the paragraphs next time and I'll try to read what you've suggested. What's kind of sad on one hand is that there is a lot of information out there which means a lot of people have experienced the same thing. God Bless

Hi RR,
I'm afraid it's not much more different than you think... You and your h grew apart, lived apart, he met someone else and wants to end the M. People seem to have no trouble dumping the kids when they have an affair, so I cant say it'd make much difference if you had them. I am really sorry. Are you tied to the area you live in, or can you move back home to where he is?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He says he does love and care for me. I thought unrealistically if I had confronted him, he would end it and I also thought that if I took a bottle of pills in front of him that he would understand how much he meant to me. All that ended up happening was me in the ER going through another horrible experience and probably causing my husband to think he needed to get away from me even more. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does he say that since he does love you he's willing to work on the marriage? And yes, you need to stop doing things that make you look desperate. Read up on Plan A, it's designed to make you look like the much better option compaired to the OP. Many BS's say if they had it to do again, they'd be smarter and calmer, trying to escape with at least their dignity intact. Are you on Anti-depress since the suicide attempt? If not, you should consider during all this...

Read everything you can on the concepts page and please take care of yourself - Dru

MB Welcome and Intro

Thanks for the reply and advice. He doesn't want to work things out. All he can say when i suggest working things out is "I can't" and that he wants to be happy.

When he called me this past weekend to tell me he received the letter I wrote he said "i thought we had said everything" and wanted to make sure that I understood he couldn't go back. I said I did but became tearful and he just said "do you?" I just tried to gently say that I was wrote the letter to help me and that my intention was not to make him upset.

As far as all my actions when I found out, including the pills, was done before I had read anything on this website or any other, book, or article. So of course if I had to go back I would have done things a lot differently. But if I could truly go back I would go back a lot further and do a lot of the marriage building techniques so I wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. I have been on anti-depressants for quite some time and in fact the pills I took was my bottle of Zoloft. I have dysthymia, which is kind of a constant mild depression. I first started individual counseling in 97 and started on zoloft shortly after. I've tried other Rx but came back to zoloft.

I appreciate your comments, I thought I would have heard from more people though. Maybe it's because of the way I typed my post ?? I do have another question. My mom is a very thoughtful person and has been sending me very enduring cards every couple of days. I know she has sent my husband at least one as well. I haven't asked her if she has sent more to him and I haven't talk to him in 5 days so I don't know if he has received anymore. Do you think I should ask her to not send him anything? I don't know how that would affect him but I want to make sure everything that is done isn't going to push him away more. Thanks in advance for advice.

Yes, I think the style of your first post is probably the reason you've not had many replies. Everyone will have sympathy for your situation and whatever the state of your marriage, for which you can accept 50% of the responsibility, the affair is entirely down to your H. Whatever the problems an affair wasn't the answer to them.

I'd be doubtful whether this 21 year old will stick with a man 12 years older than her in the long term. It's possible, but I wouldn't want to bet the farm on it. Of course that doesn't mean he'll come back to you.

Two pieces of advice.

(1) If your position is that you still want him and believe that the relationship can be restored to be good for you both then DO NOT SAY ANYTHING THAT CONTRADICTS THAT MESSAGE. No talk of divorce. Stay calm and be clear and consistent. If he says he thinks the marriage is over you must make it clear that you don't agree. Don't give mixed messages.

(2) On this site you'll see material about the concept of 180 degree change. Be a different person. Do it for yourself. Change your hairstyle, your clothing, hobbies. Well, maybe not all at once. Many people have found that volunteering to help others e.g. work in a soup kitchen has helped restore their own self-esteem.

Read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr Willrd Harley.
Read the links below.

Roughroad -

Hi. Welcome to marriagebuilders. I think you didn't get too many replies because several members were in a crisis here when you first joined. Sorry that we overlooked your post.

However, if this happens again, just reply to yourself to bump it up to the top. Don't be shy, sometimes it takes a couple times to be noticed, depending on the time and date and what else is going on.

Now for your problem. Your H is acting like they all do, says there is no hope, doesn't want to work on marriage, blah, blah, blah. Have you done all of the reading here? Read especially about Plan A.

Somehow you must get detached enough not to let this bother you so much. I know, it is very difficult. Have you read about the 180's? They really helped me.

Also read on the home page the "quick clicks" about how an affair should end, overcoming resentment, restoring the marriage and reconciliation. They are written by Dr. Harley who is an expert.

Your marriage seems very hopeful to me. Now get busy and start implementing the plan. In the meantime do things that will increase your self-esteem and make you feel good. Right now your H will not be meeting your needs. You need to find a way to take care of you.

Thank you to those of you who have replied. I have ordered the HN/HN and surviving an affair books plus a book buy Dr. James Dobson on tough love. So hopefully they will give me some additional insight.

I'm getting a little anxious because I will be seeing him later this month and will be staying in our house for a week. I'm sure he will offer the bedroom to me but honestly I don't want to sleep in our bed without him so do you think it will be okay to just say I would prefer to sleep in another room?

I am doing things to improve myself. I had already joined a gym in january before I found out but I've been going pretty much every day for almost 2 hours. I'm reading anything I can get my hands on about how to help myself. I'm not avoiding friends. I also started going to church again and feel a lot better about that. At the same time I also feel guilty because maybe if I had been more faithful to God this wouldn't have happened. But everything happens for a reason.

I'm still not sure about the 180's that a lot of people refer to. Is there a certain section that talks about this? I thought I have read just about everything I can on the MB website. Thanks again!

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

That's a good list. I doubt if he will but what if my H says I love you to me? what am I supposed to say?

This is kind of an off the wall question but my H comes around and he does the NC thing, what if the OW doesn't want to "let go" of him? she's not married and she's only 21. What if she starts stalking him or even me?

I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself but that just occured to me.

Just my opinion and I'm not an expert...

quote...
"That's a good list. I doubt if he will but what if my H says I love you to me? what am I supposed to say?"

That would be a result and a half! The list is designed to deal with spouses who declare that they don't love you any more and don't want to work on the M. If he says he loves you then you say "I love you too. So what are we going to do about it?" As you say I think this is unlikely and it's not the situation envisaged by the list.

quote...
"This is kind of an off the wall question but my H comes around and he does the NC thing, what if the OW doesn't want to "let go" of him? she's not married and she's only 21. What if she starts stalking him or even me?"

I've seen that film too. If he commits to work on your M and genuinely lets go of her it should be possible to deal with this. You could go to court and take out an injunction.

He says he loves me but that he is not in love with me. I guess that's pretty common in these situations. Gosh, how I despise having to be included "in these situations." But since I am and since I started reading everything I could I have had such an awakening.

I never knew that the things I did affected my H the way that they would/did. I want so much to share what I have learned with my H but I'm afraid that if I did that he would just interpret that as trying to get back together or convince him and I definitely don't want to scare him off. It's already ripping me apart inside just to think that he doesn't even want to talk and that he probably isn't even thinking about me.

I'm getting very anxious because I will be seeing him in a couple of weeks. I'll be going back to our home in another state while he is on spring break in order to do some things with the house. We have been planning to sell it for a long time. We knew we would when we bought it because we knew we wouldn't be staying there. But there is some things that need to be done to get it ready to sell. We had gone to a realtor initially but since everything has happened we decided to sell it ourselves to save money. I'm really glad about that because I think that will give us more time to work things out. I feel once we sell it that things will be more final.

I'm really trying hard to not dwell on things and keep busy. I received the HN/HN and surviving an affair in the mail yesterday so I already started studying on that. Like I said there is just so many things that I know now that I want to tell him but I'm afraid it would give the wrong idea. I wrote a 6 page long letter that lists all the things that I love about him and I want to send it to him so bad but again I'm afraid that would push him away even more.

I guess I still don't see how I can meet his needs when we live in different states and he has made it up in his mind that it's over. I'm so nervous about trying to think what I will say if he says this or that when I go home. I want to make sure I don't LB. I'm also trying to tell myself that it hasn't even been a month yet since I found out and confronted him and reminding myself that these situations can takes months or even years.

I guess I just feeling a little unsure and not very confident. But also very guilty that I created this mess or significantly contributed to it and also guilty that I feel that I was never given a chance. By that I mean I didn't know the things that I know now about meeting needs and he never told me. At the same time I feel like I should have known and that he probably feels like he did give me plenty of chances.

I'm trying hard to find and get back to myself. I have steadily gained a lot of weight over the past 6 years and it has affected so many things in my life in one way or another. I have felt for a long time that I wasn't the real me but never could get motivated enough to make a lasting difference. Of course, I finally have my motivation and have lost 17lbs since the end of january. Still got a long way to go but I know I will be able to stay motivated until I reach my true self again physically but mentally as well.

Well, thanks for reading/listening. Gotta go.

It's normal to have no confidence and are unsure of yourself. Stick with us and we will help you through this. Try to get on with your life and take care of yourself.

I think the advice you have been given is very good.

I have just got to where our marriage is mending. It has taken 18 months; I seemed to be doing all the work with no response, until I used something similar to the 180º rules. I tried to do it for a while unsuccessfully.

First I was numb, then in terrible pain, then angry. I let him WS see the pain, in the end. Our first therapist told me to compartmentalize it, the second told me that he needed to see what he had done and was doing to me.

Things really got better when I acted as the rules say. I did it because I was just pout of energy to respond to his "games" anymore. He wore my patience out. I tired of him making and negotiating plans and then just ignoring them as if the making was a deed in itself.

So I just told him I am over you, do whatever you wish, I will not argue or negotiate anymore, in fact I need you to keep our agreement, I can't do it for both of us. It just turned off all the desire to be with him and he could see it. I got on with my life, never said "I love you" not even when he said it, I would just smile and not reply. I changed all of my looks and put away all the frilly sexy clothes he had asked me to buy and wear in our negotiations. I didn't mention them or be close to him, no matter what he did or said. When he asked me I acted as if I didn't understand what he was asking me. I was pleasant, as I had always been soft-spoken, not sad; kind of "mind occupied elsewhere" attitude and slightly apologetic in manner when answering his puzzlement. I treated him as if he was a lodger, I shared a house with, and someone I had no history with and was being pleasant to, but didn't really know, even in bed.

I stopped trying to be with him sexually. Just told him my body wanted him but my mind would not let me go there and get hurt again.

This was 3 weeks ago. Since then he is working on his therapy great guns and is very apologetic and keeping the agreements. I am beginning to melt; I have stopped trying to trust him and feeling guilty because I don't feel it. He has to earn my trust now and I have told him so. I threw the guilt over that out the window.

I hope some of this will help you see that if you have a chance to be in the same house as him in the summer, behaving this way may have an impact on him.

If it were me I would call him (as soon as you feel you can control yourself) to make arrangements to go to the house and be very perfunctory in conversation and as soon as you have said what you need get off the 'phone really quickly. Like a pleasant business call. I would try to make such calls a few times, mentioning having to go to the gym or movies or something sounding fun as a reason for the "can't talk any longer - must go" sign off.

Just my tuppence worth.

SP

Any advice or words that I can get, I appreciate. I especially like just smiling when (and really that's a big IF) he says he loves me. I am going to be pleasant and try not to focus on the fact that I'm going to be in the same house with him but not be able to be with him.

I'm trying to find myself again. I've started going to church again and I feel good about that because I know it's the right thing. I've been going to the gym non-stop since I last saw him and I really like the results I'm seeing. I'm planning to do things that I used to love doing, like camping. I'm also trying to learn how to be more of a giver and not a taker.

I started reading dr. harley's SAA and even though it's painful because I'll think about our situation it's helpful as well to read there is hope and that there are things I can do by myself to change my behavior and save my marriage. I just can't read it fast enough! I also want to read the book by Dr. james dobson about tough love before I see him but I haven't got it in the mail yet. I'll go to the bookstore if I have to and read their copy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ). Thanks for reading.

Finding yourself and getting a life is critical. Otherwise it makes us to needy. Sounds like you are making progress. Keep reading and posting.

I edited my original post to make it easier to read. I'm going to be seeing him in 8 days and pray that I will have the strength to do and say the "right" things. Meaning no LB's meet his EN if I can and maybe soften his heart.

Keep reading and posting here. It takes awhile to really absorb the MB program. But it does get easier and easier.