I don't know if you are familiar with my story or not....

If you would like to read up...
My Story

Here's where I'm at, I have suspected that something was my W was having an A. I finally have concrete proof of everything that has gone on. She has been really angry and hostile towards me lately. She already has stated that she wants to end our marriage. With her being really upset at me, is it best to confront her sooner, rather than later? Or is it better to let things cool for a week or two? I know that exposure is really a big key to everything. I am currently trying Plan A principles, with minimal success. I am thinking that my confrontation is going to lead to a Plan B situation. I am not sure if she will be honest even with proof in front of her. What should I do?

any suggestions?

Ethan - I didn't read all of your story - don't have the time right now - but I read enough to offer a few recommendations and an observation or two.

My first three recommendations:

1. move back into your house
2. move back into your house
3. move back into your house

Then, DO NOT leave again.

If you want this marriage, you have no choice to Plan A your butt off. Do not expect instant results from HER, but demand instant results from YOU. You have to identify your faults and fix them. Do not believe her explanation that it is "all about her." She may have the lion's share of faults, but if you meet her ENs, she will fall (remain) in love with you. She says it's all about her because she doesn't want you to fix things so she can retain her justification for her behavior, perhaps.

After you are satisfied that you have corrected your faults and demonstrated them to her to the extent she will allow AND after she moves out, go to Plan B. Part of your Plan B preparations should include consulting an attorney and creating a separation document that protects your portion of your joint assets.

As far as confrontation is concerned, the sooner the better, I believe. She will be angry one way or the other. If you can afford it and have time, please consider counseling with one of the MB counselors first. They can guide you on this. If not the MB counselors, get into individual counseling as soon as possible.

Expose the affair to anybody influential with your wife as soon as you confront her with your evidence.

It's obvious to me that your wife doesn't yet have the maturity to be a spouse. You are young, you have no kids, and you have a long life in front of you. If Plan A/B isn't effective within a few months - consider cutting your losses. This potential eventuality needs to be in the back of your mind so that every decision you make includes consideration of protecting your assets and credit. This is why your first step should be to get back into your house. I hate to make this sound like a money oriented project, but she may not be salvagable.

WAT,
Thanks for the response. What if she is not open to me moving back in? She already said that she doesn't wan't to be together. How should I respond if she says, "I don't want to live in the same house."

How should I respond if she says, "I don't want to live in the same house."
I would do it very simply.
Say, "oh" and leave it at that.

Chris, I've already found that I can rely on you for 'fluffless' answers. I really appreciate that. So you believe I should just move back in, regardless of what she says.

I can rely on you for 'fluffless' answers.
Because a "fluffless" answer is what is best sometimes.
Also, MB is not brain surgery. It's all pretty simple stuff.
Don't aggravate the situation.
Don't tell her, "fine, then you move out" and don't try to argue about you moving back in.

So you believe I should just move back in, regardless of what she says.
Absolutely.

Keep in mind that the word "confrontation" is a poor choice. It sounds very, well, confrontational. You get all pushy and she gets all defensive.

Just simply state the facts.
Not necessarily HOW you know, what you do know. If you do this, she will simply not do it that way anymore and hide what she is doing differently.

<small>[ March 01, 2004, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

ditto Chris (I haven't yet matched his expertise at "fluffless" - but I'm trying.)

But, we usually agree.

Now, my recommendation is based on my assumption that you own this home jointly with your wife. If this isn't true, please give us the details. If my assumption is correct, she has NO WAY to keep you out. She may not be "open" to you coming back. Tough noogies. When she asks, "What are you coming back for?" Answer, "Because this is my home and this is the home of the marriage I want to save."

The point here is that YOU want to salvage this marriage. Thus, YOU ought to be in your house that is legally your home and if she wants to abandon this marriage, she can be the one to move out. Period.

DO NOT BUDGE ON THIS SIMPLE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

(How's THAT for fluffless?)

So, yes, move back in. Don't even ask permision. Just do it. It's a toss up whether you should even tell her what you plan to do. The highest moral ground position may be to tell her you plan to move back in on Saturday. This gives her fair warning if she wants to find other quarters. Then, hold your ground. When you consult your attorney, he/she can establish that your wife is the "abandoner" of record.

WAT

Technically, the home is in her name only. I honestly do not know about Louisiana's community property laws. I feel that if I did that, it would be viewed as highly contentious, and would only serve to get her angrier than she already is.

Thanks to both for your responses.....

Ethan

By "technically" I assume you mean her name is the only one on the deed. Is this correct? If so, I suggest you figure out the La. laws and/or consult an attorney to figure out what your rights are. If La. is a community property state, you are due half the equity in the house and half of all other assets. But you are also responsible for half of all debts, I believe. I am not an attorney, so don't rely on my statements alone.

I suggest you first protect yourself financially, then concentrate on salvaging your marriage. You have a LOT of influence and control over the legal aspects - but you have to act to protect yourself before it gets worse. She could drain your jointly held liquid assets, run up jointly held credit cards, and basically ruin you financially. She doesn't seem to care about risky behavior personallly, so she likely doesn't care about risky behavior financially, either.

WAT

very sorry to hear the state you are in. happened to me 18 months ago and it gets better very slowly. here's my advice for what its worth and i hope it is appropriate to your story.

you have to tell her what you know. try not to tell her how you know as like someonoe stated earlier she will only change her affair behaviour to avoid detection.

you will suffer great anxiety and sleepless nights. tell her you need to talk to somebody about it. see how she reacts to other people in yous social circle knowing. this has ween a huge issue with my wife. if you want your marriage to survive be careful. everyone you talk to will tell someone else to relieve their burden and before you know it will be quoting your words back to her.

the tempation to spy on her will be overwhelming. give in to it but don't tell her you are doing it and try not to make it too sneaky. many spouses will conjure up the most unbelievable excuses for their secret behaviour when the truth about what they are doing would be much simpler. my wife denies everything unless there is abosoloute proof.

dont rush legal action, it will relieve stress to begin with and give you a sense of power but it wears off very quickly and won't make your wife love you.

2 things have to happen. the affair must end and you must learn to trust her. if neither start happening soon their is no hope. try plan a but dont be a doormat. i took horrendous abuse for months and suffered serioius depression all while she continued contact with om.

good luck

WAT,

You are correct it is community property in that sense. I reviewed the laws and what you stated was correct. I am more concerned about the emotional repercussions of my decision to move back in, than the financial ones. She is has made it very obvious that she wants to have zero to do with me at this point. Is it going to benefit me to make her angrier by moving back in?

Ethan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thefurnitureman:
<strong>She is has made it very obvious that she wants to have zero to do with me at this point. Is it going to benefit me to make her angrier by moving back in?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course she has.

She's reading right from the script. Very typical.

Ethan, right now you are public enemy number 1. You represent an impediment to her "happiness". It doesn't matter that she's playing Run Around Sue and engaging in self destructive behavior. She doesn't care what you think and your clarity of vision cannot be forced onto her. She will be angry with ANYTHING you do that disrupts her fun. This is why I recommend you do what you think you need to do to protect yourself. Anyway you act - other than being a passive observer - will make her angry.

Help me understand a little more since I haven't read your entire story. Does she have a single OM or is she generally wild and "free" with her behavior, i.e., perhaps multiple OMs or one night stands??

What is the state of your finances? Do you have anything separate?

Why do you believe you should salvage this marriage to this child?

WAT

WAT,

Here goes:
Married 10/01
EA/PA #1 - 2/02-2/03 exposed 2/03, NC, her supervisor at the time, problem "solved"

EA/PA #2 - 6/03-1/03 exposed 2/29/04, her current supervisor, don't know of it's really over, she has moved on to:

EA/more than likely PA #3 - current, "just a friend", co-worker

What I am fighting for again? I love my wife, but she has been extremely destructive to our relationship, and she has something that is causing this behavior....

<small>[ March 02, 2004, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: thefurnitureman ]</small>

It's obvious that being married means nothing to her. By bouncing from OM to OM to OM she is not demonstrating a classic "romantic affair" pattern. Rather, as you suggest, her behavior may have some psychological basis or may be a simple lack of maturity. Bottom line conclusion: She may not be capable of being truly married for quite some time. She never settled down with you.

This doesn't mean you cannot salvage this marriage - but it appears it will need to wait until she grows up, or corrects whatever other "cause" for her poor behavior is present.

I strongly recommend you have a session with Steve Harley to get a professional's opinion. My observations may be dead wrong and my forecast off base. I have only my own life experiences and knowledge gained on this forum to base my views on.

WAT

WAT,
I am beginning to believe what you say, that she is not capable of being married, either mentally or emotionally, at this point. I also see the need to show her that she is in the wrong here. Badly..... I don't believe that she is (or will be) willing to work on our marriage any time soon. So should I be the one to start over from scratch? I'm starting to believe no.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thefurnitureman:
<strong>I also see the need to show her that she is in the wrong here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand your feelings to want to be "right" and convinve her that you are right. I was in the same place for a very long time. Acquiring the wisdom that being right - in your own mind - without needing to convince others that you're right is one mark of maturity, in my opinion. This doesn't mean that all mature people can do this. Perhaps this is your opportunity to become more wise.

Believe me when I say I understand this feeling. A common question posed on this forum to BSs desperately trying to salvage marriages while "eating" absurd, irrational behavior by "wrong" spouses is:

Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?

Of course, this is a knock off of the more famous question, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?" Same thing, see?

Let me read between the lines of the rest of your post: You would prefer HER to make the decision to dissolve the marriage - thereby freeing you from the guilt and the perpetual, nagging question of whether YOU should have sought the end or tried harder. Am I right?

This is an example of good, rational, forward looking thought by you and is the strategy I personally played out in my situation. It worked for me. I worked my butt off trying to salvage my marriage. One by one, my wife unilaterally initiated ALL the steps necessary to achieve divorce. I didn't help one ounce, nor did I try to stop it. Today, I am content knowing I did all I could and I am guilt free. So, I validate your desire to achieve something similar. Not every BS whose marriage ends has this luxury due to indecisiveness on the part of the WS. Some BSs give their best and eventually get to a point where they initiate the actions for divorce and they end up just fine - still guilt free.

Please do not come to a conclusion to give up on this marriage solely based on interaction with me. Get some second opinions.

But, because in the end, you may have to take actions to end it, work your butt off in the meantime to save it. This is part of the argument for you to move back into your house - remove her future accusation that you were the one who left.

WAT

WAT,
From interaction with you (and others), I have seen one of the things that's been missing. My Spine! I have spent so long trying to appease and provide for, that I never focused on what I wanted. I have realized that I really like my house, and I am happy there. If she chooses to continue her lifestyle, then so be it.... If she wants to follow through with a divorce, than she can do all the work for it. But I'm not sure that I am in a position where I need to make anymore sacrifices. It certainly falls under the plan A principles of self improvement.

Now that being said, I realize that I am a tad emotional, so we'll see how this feels after a night of sleeping on it. But I do know that it feels a lot better than I've felt in a while......

For those who have followed my story so far, thanks. As I find out a little more about was has/is going on. I find myself beginning to be ..... repulsed, I guess. I feel my love for my W turning to anger and disgust. She has lied and cheated on me for a long time. I am starting to face the pain of that, and it feels absolutely HORRIBLE. Despite having only implemented Plan A principles for about two weeks, she has, if anything, gotten less remorseful about her actions. I don't know if implementing Plan B almost immediately, would even impact her at all. She is so caught up in all the INSANE things that she is doing right now..... The part of me that just wants to be done with all this is growing....FAST! Please help.....

Ethan...it's OK that you are feeling those things. You SHOULD be feeling those things. It would not be natural if you weren't. You are facing reality now and letting it sink in, and as much as it hurts, it is a good thing. No good comes from living in ignorance or denial. (It just makes the pain worse later.)
I wish I had some better advice than what I've already told you, but I am running low on advice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
You are going to go through many different stages and emotions (denial, bargaining, depression, anger, acceptance...), and there is just no way around that, no way around the pain. Try to embrace the pain and use it in a positive way.
And don't forget the hope - the hope for a brighter future, either with your wife who loves you and is commited to you 100% after coming to her senses, or someone else who you will fall madly in love with and create a beautiful, trusting life with. It's out there, you're just not there yet! You have to go through this first to get there. You know, the old saying - there's no way around it, only trough it. And looking back on the other side, you are going to see that you are an incredibly stronger, wiser person with a wonderful ability to love and be loved, and although you wouldn't choose the pain, you wouldn't change any of the lessons you've learned from it.
No more advice at the moment, just a few words of encouragement...hope it helps a little.