I am new to the board and I am hoping to find some help here because I am at a complete loss on what else to do.

I am 34 and my H is 40. I have been suspicious for a while now that my H has been having an A. He has been very cold to me and distant for 4 months now. He has lost all interest in sex during this time. I cannot keep track of all of his time because we have different days off.

Since I have been suspicious, I decided to keep track of his condoms. I have been counting them regularly, and after weeks of noticing no difference in the number, I discovered last Tuesday that one of them was missing. I became physically ill.

I confronted him the next night, and he absolutely denied it. He says that he has not and is not having an A. He thought it was funny that I was keeping track. As for his other behavior, he says that his distance is a result of him feeling depressed lately and not feeling like talking (

svb,
Although I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to come due to your H's behavior, I welcome you. You've come to the right place. The Marriage Builders (MB) site and board is a wonderful place of support and information. This site has helped me and I'm sure 1,000's like us.

First off if fidelity is involved this may be the fight of your life to save your M. You can't do it alone or just by reading self-help books. You need a counselor trained in "infidelity". I would suggest that you try to find one in your local area or use the Harley's.

Next go to the main MB site and read everything you can on the infidelity pages. The Harley's will want you familiar with the concepts or if you choose someone local it will help you in the selection process. Also, the more you've read here the more the responses here will mean to you and will help with your specific situation. Especially focus on Plan A and meeting all of your H's needs. Do you know what his needs are? My W didn't know mine nor I hers.

Remember everyone's situation is unique but having said that you will soon learn that your husband's (H's) actions follow a general pattern. Yes your H's lack of sex desire may be because he is depressed about something. Did he tell you what he's depressed about? It is also one of the tell tale signs of an A. Has his interest in his appearance changed. Is there more activity on his cell account that can't be accounted for? Did he ever discuss people at work that he has now gone silent on? There are more signs as well.

He may become more irritable towards you. May pick fights or criticize more. That is his way of justifying/rationalizing his behavior. My W is so __________ that it's ok for me to go to lunch with so & so. Usually affairs start out as innocent friendships. Conversation over lunch turns to relationship talk etc etc.

I realize that it's tough but I wouldn't accuse him anymore until you have additional info. He will just deny deny deny. He will make you feel like you are a jealous paranoid wife with no self-esteem.

Also, try not to get bogged down in the spying game. I did and it took my focus off of Plan A. I also found out more than I wanted to.

Give more info on your specific situation and I'll try to help along with others here.

cwmac

I'm not sure what happened, but the rest of my original post disappeared.

It was as follows:

I want to believe him more than anything. I am beginning to doubt myself on the physical evidence I discovered, although I've counted them so many times, I don't know how I could be wrong. He has been somewhat more talkative since I've confronted him, but still a little distant. He still has no desire for me. He says he still loves me. Although this is confusing to me because I asked him at one point in the past four months (before the confrontation) if he still loves me and he said he "didn't know."

I have read much of the information on relationships and infidelity on this website, and I can understand how I was partly responsible if he, in fact, has strayed. With working full time and being in grad school, I know that I have been neglecting his needs. I just wish he would have talked to me instead of turning to another woman.

Overall, I don't know if I should choose to believe him and forget about my discovery (DENIAL), or if I should choose to stick with my gut feelings. I have a hard time believing him overall. He has lied to me in the past over other issues. My world has been turned upside-down. I can't eat, sleep, or concentrate. When I do sleep, I have nightmares over this.

I am at a loss on what to do.

Well the red flags are up. My H was the same way. No interest in sex. He said he was depressed. He told me to hang in there, things would get better.

All the time he was sleeping with a neighbor. When I had absolute proof (motel bills in the middle of the day when he was supposed to be at work), he lied and lied.

But whatever is going on with your marriage, start in Plan A. That is to show your H how good your marriage could be. Then give it some time and see what happens.

svb,
Some thoughts:


on </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My world has been turned upside-down. I can't eat, sleep, or concentrate. When I do sleep, I have nightmares over this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take some deep breaths. I know how you're feeling. You're somewhere in a hyper state of awareness with some depression and anxiety mixed in. I understand the restless feelings that make it tough to eat, sleep, relax and focus on school or work. You need to find something to take your mind off of this. Most on this site recommend strenuaous activities such as jogging, work-outs or other sports related activity. The endorphines will be released which will help.

on </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He has been somewhat more talkative since I've confronted him, but still a little distant. He still has no desire for me. He says he still loves me. Although this is confusing to me because I asked him at one point in the past four months (before the confrontation) if he still loves me and he said he "didn't know." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ask him if he is in love with you not whether he loves you. Alot of wayward spouses (WS) give their betrayed spouses (BS) the old line " I love you; I'm just not in love with you."

on </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Overall, I don't know if I should choose to believe him and forget about my discovery (DENIAL), or if I should choose to stick with my gut feelings. I have a hard time believing him overall. He has lied to me in the past over other issues. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I were you, I'd stick to the gut instict especially if he has had "truth" issues in the past. The unofficial "gut instict" index on this site is accurate 99.99% of the time. By ignoring it, things will just get progressively worse. For example if there is someone that H is interested in and it is only a friendship now it may turn to an emotional affair (EA) with more time or it may go from a current EA to physical affair (PA).

Would he go to M counseling per my last post?

Does he have a cell phone/ bill that you can review to see if there is a suspicious number??

As I said before don't accuse him further without more evidence!! This is the hardest thing for a new "Just Found Out" MBer to follow. Your anxiety will make you want to question him all the time and to have "relationship" talks 24x7. As I said before start Plan A now. Collect whatever evidence you can. As you collect more come back to the site and ask opinions on whether to confront or not.

A note on confronting a WS with evidence. You'll read on this site that you don't want to love bust (LB) because it makes you unattractive to the WS and makes withdrawals from the Love Bank. That doesn't mean you can't confront your H with valid evidence. It just means you need to do it in a specific way. You need to calmly sit down with him and say "honey we need to talk." Remember when you said I was being silly about my concerns over the missing condom and your lack of interest in me, well I've learned something that is really bothering me and I wanted to share it with you.........." Again you don't do this until you have enough evidence because he can probably explain away one or two items.

There are alot of people on this site who have never really learned the truth because their spouse was questioned with little evidence and they went further underground. For example, if you're spouse is using his cell phone to call the other woman (OW) he can buy a prepaid phone card and you'll never know who he's talking to. If he is e-mailing her alte at night from the home PC on his regular e-mail account he may decide to get a yahoo secret account. etc etc

That reminds me... do you know how to check to see which sites he's visited on the PC? Press Control H and the history comes up.

Gotta run.

cwmac

I am very grateful for your responses to my concerns. You have no idea what this means to me. It really helps to hear from people who are going through something similar.

I am absolutely torn on what to do. I want to know what is going on, but at the same time, I don't. I want to be calm and patient and understanding and give him some space (follow plan A) but at the same time I want to confront him again and again and have "relationship talks" 24/7 as you say. I feel like I need to get to the truth.

I'm afraid I already confronted him too soon, and now he is going to be extra careful. Maybe I should have waited a little longer to see if maybe more condoms disappeared. He already told me that he never would have imagined that I would have checked on something like that. Now I know I can't count on that trick anymore.

There are a couple of things I'd like to ask him, but I'm not sure if I should at this point. First of all, I found a receipt of his from when he purchased my Valentine's gift. (believe it or not, I received one.) On the receipt were two boxes of expensive chocolates and one item called "satins." Unfortunately, I only received one box of chocolate. I am dying to ask him about this. I'm sure he can explain this away by saying he purchased something for his mother and mailed it to her (she's in another country and he often does this - purchase one gift for me and another for her at the same time). I'm dying to know what "satins" is, though, and if it's what I think it is, I don't know why he would buy it for his mother. I also don't know why he would leave the receipt where I could see it. I would like to believe it is because he has nothing to hide.

Also, he did not work last Monday. I discovered the missing condom the next day. On Monday he used my car and I noticed a lot of extra mileage. I did ask him about this and he said he went to buy wine out of state, which he often does. I dropped it after that. However, there is no proof of this wine. I have found no additional wine or any receipts. He said he used the credit card to buy the wine. The credit card statement came in already and for that day there were no charges for wine, but there was a charge for the car repair on that day (he had my car on his day off to take it for repairs.) I'm dying to ask him if he has a receipt for the wine or can tell me exactly what he bought.

Should I confront him on these items, or should I let them go??

We do not have cell phones, so I can't really check on this. He already has international calling cards to call his family in another country. He can also use these to make calls in the country, so I don't think I can count on phone bills.

I haven't noticed any bizarre email activity, however, he could have another account.

Regarding his depression, he says he can't really tell me what it is because he doesn't know. I know he is having problems at work, but he doesn't really share them with me. He is a firm believer of not bringing problems home from work.

Another of my dilemmas is that he does not consider divorce and he does talk a little about our plans for the future. It has been sort of a dream of ours for him to get transferred at work so we can move to Europe for a few years. We love to travel - our love of travel and sense of adventure is what brought us together in the first place. Although during the past few months he was saying that he lost the desire to go, I also know that he recently did apply for a position. Why would he talk about our future and consider moving away if he is having an affair??

I am SO confused. I am also sorry for my extremely long posts.

Dear SVB - If you think he is then trust your instincts. He may not be in a full-blown PA, but chances are he's thinking about it. Of course, I'm assuming here that you've not been prone to irrational suspicions in the past and that his behaviour really is unusual.

This all sounds so familiar to me though. My WH (now DH, one year ago Valentine's Day) started off with the depression (job troubles, he said), then lack of sex (tired, he said), then not doing things with me (need space, he said). Then came the drinking, the suspicious receipts, the unaccounted-for nights out, getting mad when I came up behind him while he was on e-mail. Like you, I refused to believe, really believe - up until the very minute he told me that he was having an A. He'd always have excuses and make me feel like I was somehow in the wrong for doubting him. So trust yourself - that's my first piece of advice.

Second piece of advice - get positive help. Don't ignore your husband's behaviour and hope it goes away. No matter how much he wants you to! I think if I'd pushed the issue, in a loving way, back when it first started, I could have saved my M. I've become a firm believer in MB principles and in counselors. Even if your H won't go to a counselor with you, go alone. They'll help you keep your sanity and help you see if you're fooling yourself or (maybe, just maybe) going too far with your suspicions.

Thirdly - keep posting on MB. They were a God-send to me when I was going through the worst.

There is still hope as long as you still believe there is. That's my last piece of advice. I had to kill the hope before I could move on.

I'll check back later and see if any of this makes sense to you, or if I'm way off base. Hang in there.

SH94

OK, reality check. Even if your suspicions are wrong you are NOT being irrational.

(1) He told you he bought wine with his credit card, but he didn't. There's no record on the statement and no visible wine. Hmmn.

(2) Lack of sex. Not a good sign under any circumstances.

(3) Missing condom. Not sure about that one. It was a while before it showed up and could you have miscounted? On the other hand people on this site testify that often sex in affairs is unprotected so condoms may not be used anyway. Or maybe he has a secret supply for use the rest of the time. Or maybe he merely fantasises about having an affair and put one in his wallet in case he "got lucky"???

Without making any further accusations about an affair it seems to me that there are a couple of issues you can raise.

[A] Dr Harley points out that marriage involves a vow of sexual exclusivity and that it follows logically that if you want or need sex then only your spouse can provide it. To some people this might seem a little old fashioned but I do see his point.

You did not sign up for a sexless marriage and are entitled to pursue this issue with him.

[B] What is he depressed about? He should be honest and open with you about this. It obviously is not only his business but affects you as well.

Dear SH94,

Your message does make sense to me. Thanks. Your situations sounds like mine. I just wonder if there will ever be a time when he will admit to it like your H did. Also, I have not been prone to irrational suspicions in the past. His behavior has been extremely out of the ordinary. There have been times that he has been distant in the past, but not for so long and w/o sex.

I've already put in a call to get information on counseling. Hopefully I'll hear something back today. I've been deathly afraid to ask my husband if he'd like to go. I have my doubts that he will go. He'll say it's not necessary, I'm sure. I've already recommended personal counseling for him on his depression. At first he acted like he was considering it. When I gave him all of the necessary information such as insurance info and phone numbers, he said he wouldn't go.

I think I will go to counseling by myself if he's not interested. I might approach him tonight about this subject.

I am in an awful state this morning. My H is off today, and I'm afraid he'll be up to no good. I noticed that his alarm was set, which he usually doesn't set on his days off. I checked the mileage on his car before I left today. I feel so sneaky for doing these things, and I'm sure I WILL drive myself crazy on the spying.

Thank for your advice.

Hi, SVB - oh, good, I'm glad my advice didn't seem too out of line. And your last post really hit some chords in me, so before I head for bed (I'm on the other side of the world from you), let me respond:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just wonder if there will ever be a time when he will admit to it like your H did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It took months and months of denial on my part, and then some determined spying, and then more months of accusations before my WH ever admitted to it. But you can't imagine what a relief it was to hear him admit! I realized I wasn't crazy after all, that I wasn't some crazy neurotic jealous shrew of a wife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also, I have not been prone to irrational suspicions in the past. His behavior has been extremely out of the ordinary. There have been times that he has been distant in the past, but not for so long and w/o sex.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's why you should trust your instincts! I also trusted my WH completely - I was never jealous of him before this, for 7 years. And then suddenly... I was. Hmmmm.... Those alarms don't start ringing unless there's something to set them off....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've already recommended personal counseling for him on his depression. At first he acted like he was considering it. When I gave him all of the necessary information such as insurance info and phone numbers, he said he wouldn't go.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Similar to my WH - yeah, I'll do it, but then back out. Again, I really do think it's a good idea that you go yourself, even if he won't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think I will go to counseling by myself if he's not interested. I might approach him tonight about this subject.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good girl! On both counts - getting counseling yourself, AND about asking him to go with you. Tell him how worried you are about your M. Don't lay it all on him - tell him that his behaviour is causing you to have problems and you think a 3rd party will help resolve them. But let him know that in order to solve your problems, he needs to be there with you.
Oh, and if asking for his help in getting YOU help still doesn't get a response... then I'd start worrying if he's gone too far into the Fog. From what you've said, I doubt he's in a serious PA or even in one at all - maybe he's just thinking about it or is involved in an EA.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I checked the mileage on his car before I left today. I feel so sneaky for doing these things, and I'm sure I WILL drive myself crazy on the spying.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all feel like that about spying - we feel sneaky. But who's the one who is really being sneaky, may I ask, you or your H??? Besides feeling sneaky, I kept asking myself - "do I really want to know." And the truth was, while I didn't want to, the alternative - not knowing - was so much worse. So I did spy, very aggressively, and that's the only way he ever finally admitted the A. But the advice you got from others about not tipping your hand too early, that's good advice. Otherwise he'll go underground.

One last thing... I hope my feelings of pain and sympathy for you come through in my note. Because I do hurt for you, having gone through it myself. I can feel your own pain in your words. Take care.

Well I just screwed up.

I came home from work extremely anxious. I knew my husband had the day off today and I was on pins and needles all day. I had checked his mileage before he left and when I returned, I checked it again. I asked him what he had done today and he said "nothing." Then he said that he actually went to the grocery store, which is actually literally only one mile away. THere were 48 miles on his car. I confronted him about this. He got defensive and said that he went to a work meeting in another suburb. I asked him, "Why can't you just tell me that in the beginning -- it just makes me believe that you're lying and hiding something." He says he does it on purpose because he's tired of me bothering him and asking all of these questions. I can't believe him anymore. He now also knows that I check his mileage. He also said he wonders now what else I check on him. He said, "Are you going to hire a detective, as well?"

He was very angry with me and he says he doesn't care if I believe him or not. He said that we already had a discussion when I first confronted him and that I should believe him.

Since I already confronted him about this, I confronted him about the receipt I found. He said it was chocolate for me, the neighbor, and a tie for himself. I don't know.

I also mentioned counseling. He said that he absolutely would not go. He said that it would not do any good. I said that I am going to go myself and he said that I should if I wanted to.

I believe I just ruined everything. I probably just should have come home and said absolutely nothing. I just can't help myself.

svb

First off, trust your gut instincts. As was said before, your gut will be right 99% of the time.

Secondly, get a copy of Surviving an Affair. Until you get it read all you can on the Marriage Builder's website. Learn first about Plan A, and how it works.

Third, take a deep breath and relax. If your H is having an affair, you will ultimately find out. Continue snooping, but keep what you find to yourself, and when you have something concrete and irrefutable, then and only then, should you confront him. There is a proscribed manner by which you should confront him, so you do not DAMAGE YOU EFFORTS TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE!!!

Lastly, in your snooping, try to find out who he is having the A with. One of the quickest, most efficient ways to start the beginning of the end of the affair, is to expose it. Start with the "other woman's" (OW's) husband. Affairs thrive in secrecy, and when you let it "out of the closet", they have to try to maintain in the "light of day", which means reality begins setting in. It is much more difficult to keep this "fantasy" alive when others are aware of it.

All this is covered in Surviving an Affair. Many of the highlights are covered on this website.

Read, read, read, learn, learn, learn all you can so you are properly "armed" to go into this battle of saving your marriage.

You need to be in control of your emotions as best you can, and not go running to him with every little shred of info you pick up.

Remember, your human nature will tell you to do the wrong thing most of the time in going through this, so get busy learning how to do all of these things properly, and in an orderly manner. It will save you lots of time and suffering in the long term.

Stay strong!!!

SD

Thanks SD.

I just talked to my husband again. I apologized for checking up on him and promised I'd give him some more space. We hugged and he seems to be OK.
I hated doing this, because I feel I'm giving him space to carry on with his (possible) A. That is the last thing I want to do. At least he is currently not angry.

Of course, I plan to snoop as normal, but I will keep any findings to myself from now on unless, like you said, I find something irrefutable. It will be EXTREMELY difficult to keep my emotions in control from now on. This is absolutely tearing me apart. I'm wondering if this is all worth it.

I plan on buying the book you recommend as well as His Needs, Her Needs. I actually went to a bookstore at lunch, but they weren't there. I'll have to check another store.

SVB

svb

Just a couple more thoughts. If you think he's using the computer, you can get a "keylogger" software package that only you'll know about, and you can capture every keystroke he enters on the computer.

You can also purchase telephone recorders, that will record both sides of a phone conversation originating at your home. Some will even capture the numbers dialed.

Scour your credit card receipts... see where he fills the car with gas...meals for two?...gifts YOU didn't get...you get the idea.

Has he bought a phone card? Those calls are pretty untraceable.

Call him for some "help" at work occasionally, and see if he is where he is supposed to be.

Be creative... actually, have a little fun with it, as it will keep you distracted from the pain you are suffering. Try not to obsess about it. All this will take a while to unfold, and then you'll have yet another roller coaster to ride.....withdrawal and recovery.

You have to be the strong half of the marriage, and much of what you have to do will be thankless, selfless, and sometimes, downright depressing. Get individual counseling and consider AD's as some temporary help in your crusade.

Stay strong!

SD

SVB<
You didn't blow it. Besides eventhough I gave you the sage advice not to confront until you had lots of irrefutable evidence. Well guess what someone gave me the same advice in 2002 and due to all of the same anxiety that your feeling I didn't follow their advice either. LOL. It's human nature.

Someone suggested a voice recorder up above. That is what I used to get the ultimate evidence. I heard my wife telling the OM that I was very suspicious and asking lots of questions then I heard the "we'll be soul mates for life" dialogue from Romeo & Juliet. LOL again! One thing to remember that these recorders are not legal in all states. Do you have Radio Shack in your area? They have a model that will record 90 minutes worth of conversation. Sounds like your H's day off is the most likely time that he would potentially call an OW from your house. You plug it into a phone jack. Hopefully you have on in an out of the way place where your H will never check. You want it accessable enough to be able to quickly replace tapes. Under a bed or behind a large piece of furniture.

Although I never tried this I've heard of people putting them in a S's car. Under a seat etc. I'd be afraid they'd see it or the background noise of the car's engine or radio would use all the tape befor something interesting happened.

Another piece of advice. I wish that I had immediately gone to a doctor and gotten on anti-depressants. I waited way too long. Again this was good advice from veterans in 2002 that I ignored. lol. The AD's will calm you down so that you can patiently & calmy attack this infidelity problem head on with out getting anxious and "blowing it" before you have all the evidence.

The key logger is good advice if your H uses the computer alot. What are his home computer habits?? Have you tried the "Control H key" trick II told you about??

Do you have any guesses as to who the OW may be?? Earlier I asked you if there was anyone that the H may have spoken favorably towards and then went silent on? Co-worker? Neighbor? Church member? Think back to what was it 3-4 months ago when your H's behavior started to get strange. Just prior to that had he said anything to this effect.... There's someone new in my dept at work. She's a good team member and works very hard. If so ask your H during your next conversation how that co-worker is working out? Watch and listen for his reaction. It may be a look he gives or his pupils may dialate. Or he may say something disparaging about her...."I thought she'd be a good team member but she really hasn't worked out.....or ...."as I got to know her she was a real "b%t$^".

Give it a try.

I agree with everyone who has said that if H won't go to counseling go alone. It helps. BTW, the fact that he won't go, despite the fact that you told him it was important to you, is another subtle sign that he may be having the A. People feel varying degrees of guilt during A's despite the fog. It takes a tough character who can go to MC and lie to both the S and C. It would deepen the feelings of guilt.

Same with church. If you have been church goers, even if just casually, and now H refuses that's another subtle sign. He doesn't want to feel like a hypocrite so he may refuse to go. My W and I were casual church attendees and, although I never realized it back then, we stopped going altogether during the A. I wish I could show you video of the look on her face when we went to Easter service at the time when I was just figuring out that at a minimum there was an unhealthy relationship/friendship going on. Everyone at church got a piece of paper and had to write down their sins and than nail it to crosses. I thought she was going collapse right there. Despite the denials I knew it was a full blown A from that day forward!!

Anyway I digress.

Are you exercising?? It'll help with the anxiety.

I wish you well.

cwmac

BTW, in an earlier post you said you may try to give him space. If you mean don't accuse him of the A 24x7, good. However Harley says that you must try to spend quality time with H. 15 hours per week. Do not have "relationship" talks during this time. I know it's tough but have fun. Whatever trick you need to use on yourself try it. Assume he is having the A and you know all of the truth and he wants to save his M. This is called Plan A. You need to present to him the best person and spouse that you can be. Or as someone said turn it into a game.. the "be nice to my H so I can Plan A and save my M game"

just another thought,

cwmac

In answer to some of your questions:

I don't have a good idea of who the OW might be specifically. My H works as a manager in a retail/department store that is international. He often visits other stores and interacts with many, many people. He is very attractive and charming. I know that it would be very easy for him to find a willing OW to meet his needs. He has talked of women at work in the past. (I read this over and think -- maybe I AM just a jealous, suspicious W!)

He has also been taking classes on and off. It seems, though, that when he needs study partners, they are always women. He took a class last fall, and thinking about it, his strange behavior began not long after beginning this class. It could be someone from this class.

I like the idea of the phone recorder very much. I have a perfect place for it where it will be hidden. He will not see it or even suspect it. I can use it on his days off. I think this might be my best chance of catching him. I will have to go to Radio Shack and check on this. If, in the end, there are no incriminating phone calls, I will know that I am just a jealous W. My gut tells me, however, that this is probably not the case.

As for the computer, he doesn't use it very much -- only every 2-3 days to check for email. I tried the Control H thing, but it didn't work. I must be doing something wrong.

Regarding giving him some space, I plan on NOT having relationship talks or ask him where he has been on his days off anymore. I will leave it up to him to give me information on his own, if he wants to. (Which is what he says he will do eventually as soon as I stop "interrogating" him.)

I've noticed that since I confronted him for the first time last week (and we had our long talk), as long as I am not talking about our relationship, he has been more talkative and relatively pleasant. Not as much as I'd like yet, but there has been a vast improvement. Before last week, he would barely talk to me at all and was very mean, irritable, and sarcastic when he did speak. He would not let me hug him or touch him in any way. Now we hug and kiss more often. I don't know if this is just a way to throw me off his track, or if he is sincerely coming around in this M.

Thanks again everyone for your support and suggestions.

svb

svb,
I don't think you are being jealous regarding your concerns. From what you've posted your H is at a minimum withdrawn and cold to you and at the extreme he is having an A. Either way not the treatment you signed up for when you said "I do." Have you been jealous in the past over his female friends?

You said your H was "charming" Give examples of his behavior towards other women when you are around.

Does he have what I call the "white knight" syndrom. Meaning does he go to the "rescue" of female friends? Did he ever treat you that way early in your relationship?

Sounds like the recorder is the option for you. Hopefully if something is going on he'll call her from the house. Buy extra tapes so if you always have a couple of spares. Without a cell phone he probably normally calls from work. Does he work late hours? Maybe you should buy his and her cell phones as a "gift". Some phone companies don't record the number of incoming calls anymore. (if my W started her A today I wouldn't be as posative the hundreds of cell calls because only her calls to him would have been itemized on the bill.

As I said before get your H to spend quality time with you. 15 hours per week. Go for walks at the beach, park whatever. What activities do you have in common? Sports , hobbies?? The main web page has a questionaire with great ideas.

cwmac

cwmac,

I say that my husband is "charming" because he is very outgoing and talkative and likes to joke around, particularly with women. Women really like him. He receives all kinds of gifts from women at work (both single and married) for Christmas and other occasions. (This could be harmless, I know.) When I've visited his workplace, his female coworkers just gush at how wonderful he is. I guess you can say that I have been jealous in the past over his female friends, for instance, I've never been comfortable with his female study buddies, but I don't think I've been extreme.

He absolutely has the "white knight" syndrome. He was that way with me when we met. I was living and home and my father was ill (he passed away last year) and my mother was very controlling. All my husband wanted to do was to marry me and "take me away from there."

He also has a male friend that divorced at least five years ago. We were friends with that couple while they were married. His friend has since remarried (he was seeing another woman before they divorced.) about two years ago. His ex-wife however, calls my husband to this day. She last called in November asking for him, because she REALLY needed to talk to him about something. When they were divorcing and recently divorced she called him more often, crying to him a lot of the time. It always seemed inappropriate to me. Doesn't she have family or female friends to talk to, as opposed to married men? I told him this and he said that he didn't like her calling him, either. I figured this was all harmless, otherwise it would be hidden from me. She also lives about 900 miles from here. Still, though, this demonstrates the "white knight" syndrome to me.

Does having the "white knight" syndrome mean that he is more likely to be unfaithful?

I would like to spend more quality time with my H. Before last week, every time I suggested going somewhere, such as seeing a movie, he said he didn't feel like it. Our schedules usually don't permit it, either. We rarely have the same day off. When I am not working, I am in class much of the time, or I need to study. At this point I'm sorry I ever decided to get my graduate degree.

Right now all we do is spend a lot of our time together just watching TV, sometimes speaking, sometimes not. I might suggest seeing a movie this weekend, depending on how our schedules are, and see how he reacts.

svb,
My W's OM was a "white knight" That's how the whole thing started. She worked with him 20 years ago and they lost track of each other until 2001. I can't remember exactly... I think he invited us to a "showing" and I didn't go. I know dumb. Hindsight is 20/20. I've always gotten a vibe from him about my W and was always a bit jealous of him. Not jealous of him the man or person but jealous of the glowing way my W would describe him when we were first married. As a superman (believe me he's not)

Any way that harmless first meeting turned into a lunch..into several lunches. They both did the typical "I've got a boy/girl friend two step" that we all did in HS or college. Meaning I'm married but not happily. My W told him what a big ugly angry monster I was. I get the feeling that he really had to exaggerate to come up with equivalent bad news about his W.

Once the door was opened to talk about personal matters the realtionship could grow to an emotional affair to a physical and back again to just an emotional affair.

BTW, the divorced wife that your husband has "rescued" in the past may or may not be the OW. Are you sure she's still 900 miles away. If you can w/out raising suspicions, ask about her. Say...we haven't heard from Mrs. _____ in a while. I wonder how she's doing? See if that starts any conversation from your H.

How good of a liar is your H? You said he was charming so my guess is he's a good one.

IMHO all men have some "white knight" in them. It is a way to get close to women and it makes us feel needed. Feeling needed is usually high up a man's list of needs.

I know nothing about post graduste work but is it possible to take a break from it at the end of the next term?? It sounds as though it would be worthwhile to look into.


cwmac