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SVB, Here is something else you can look into, about that chocolate and the "silks".... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said it was chocolate for me, the neighbor, and a tie for himself.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this neighbor an elderly shut-in? How many married men buy chocolate for their neighbors on Valentine's Day? I find this very strange behavior. As for the "silks..." You can call the store and ask them what type of item would ring up as "silks." Would it be a man's tie or women's lingerie? BTW, did he show it the tie to you? Is there a new tie in his closet? Keep your eyes open and your wits about you. you are in my prayers. ~ Snow
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Regarding the tie and the chocolate -
He did not show me a tie. I believe the tie is exactly where the wine that he bought is - nonexistant. He's got so many ties, if I check them, I'm not sure which is new or old. I've got a code on the receipt for the "satins" and I might go to the store this weekend to check it out.
As for the chocolate, he might have purchased chocolate for the neighbor. Our neighbors are very good friends of ours. They are older - they could be our parents. We almost feel like their adopted kids, especially my husband. We always exchange gifts and have gone on trips together. I would love to ask them about the chocolate, but if I did, I'm sure I would look like a jealous wife to them. So this could be true, but I'm not sure.
My husband is a fantastic lier. I suppose that is why I am in so much doubt. Because of that and because I really want to believe him, I suppose.
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Also, about the friend's xW, I doubt that she is the OW. We moved away from our hometown. She is still there. The only way she would be here is because she followed him here.
I do believe, though, that if he is in an A, it could very well have started with him being a "white knight." It is very much like him. I can just imagine him complaining about how horrible I am, too. I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, too. I hope things are going well for you now.
Well, he just got home from work. Time to work on plan A some more. He seems to be in a good mood.
Thanks again.
svb
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svb, Earlier you said and Iforgot to comment on </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Right now all we do is spend a lot of our time together just watching TV, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TV doesn't count for part of your 15 hours of quality time probably because of that zombie state everyone seems to fall into. Movies are usually better. Dinners walks sports etc. also you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also, about the friend's xW, I doubt that she is the OW. We moved away from our hometown. She is still there. The only way she would be here is because she followed him here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've seen stranger things on this board than a W moving to a new city to be near someone she feels an emotional closeness to. Especially if she felt there was nothing left for her in the small town. and lastly.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, too. I hope things are going well for you now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for those words. Once my W realized that I new about the EA, she realized it had to end. Unfortunately she didn't come clean to the P part until almost 18 months later so alot of our recovery was a false one. There are days when the feelings of humiliation & anger creep into my thoughts but in general our relationship is getting better. Recently the OM e-mailed her and she came right to me and told me. That really helped with the trust factor. Good luck on the Plan A over the weekend. cwmac
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Get the recorder from RadioShack. That will give you the truth. They are not too expensive and are worth it. Just plug it in and go somewhere.
However please be prepared for what you may hear.
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Here is an update:
I went to the store this weekend to check on the tie story. His tie story checked out. I took numbers from the receipt and compared them to the ties in the store. First of all, the original and sale prices match. Second, some of the numbers on the receipt were numbers of the men's dept. This gives me a little hope.
Plan A went very well this weekend. My H did not work on Sunday. Although he didn't feel like going out, he is interested in being physical again. He is also being more thoughtful of me in other little ways. This also gives me more hope. Still, a part of me still wonders - is he really coming around in this M, or is he just trying to get me off his track, now that I am suspicious?
I am also understanding a little more of why he might be depressed (besides work). I have mentioned my neighbors previously (our adopted parents). The husband (who has been more of a father to my husband than his own father) has been suffering from cancer, and has been feeling worse lately. We had a visit from the neighbor's wife on Sunday morning, who discussed her husband's health. I could see the concern and pain on my H's face.
Overall, I am really confused about this whole situation. I am starting to feel really silly about everything, and I am wondering if I still want to even purchase a phone recorder. Do I really want to know the truth anyway? I struggle with this constantly. Maybe it is better if I never find out and the possible A dies out.
At the same time, it bothers me that there are certain things that my H tells me that just don't jive. On 4 of his past days off (not including yesterday when he was with me) 1 day he did not go anywhere. On the other 3 days he put approx. 50 miles on his car each day. One day he told me that he went to buy wine (no proof of this wine). The second time, he got around answering me at all. The third time, he said he had a meeting at work at another site. It all still makes me feel uncomfortable - along with the physical evidence that has not been explained. I also catch him in other little lies. For instance, he had his car repaired recently. He had a rental car while it was repaired. After he turned in the rental, we received a voicemail from the rental place. They wanted to contact him about his questions on purchasing a used rental SUV. When I asked him about it, he just blew it off, saying "they're confused, I just asked about renting a SUV." However, I hit redial after he went to work on Saturday, and it automatically dialed the rental sales office. So he returned their call. Why does he lie? It's these little lies about everything that make me so suspicious. I never mentioned anything to him about the calls.
Am I just a horrible, insensitive, jealous wife?
svb
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I am back to vent again. I hope you all don't mind.
After what I thought was a good weekend and was given some hope, I am back into a state of anxiety. Since the weekend, my H has slipped back into his cold, mean self again. He does not speak to me unless I speak to him. When I do try to speak to him, or kiss him "hello" or "goodbye," he acts annoyed. He is extremely irritable. He doesn't care one bit about what I do or what is going on in my life. He doesn't ask me anything. I feel completely ignored. I really miss the man that I married almost ten years ago.
I am really beginning to feel like LBing again. It is really difficult not to feel this way after my H's behavior towards me. I really feel like anti-depressants might help me keep calm and not LB, but I couldn't schedule an appt. with my doctor until next week. I just need to hang on until then.
I thought about waiting to purchase a phone recorder with the hope that I wouldn't need it, but now I feel that I don't have much of a choice.
I will go out and buy one tonight. My H has the day off again tomorrow, and maybe I will discover something. I can just picture him tomorrow after I come home from work. He will be freshly showered and doing laundry, while he cooks dinner (which is what he has done on all of his other suspicious days off).
Did I ever mention that he does his own laundry? He has been doing this for a while now (about a year). His excuse is that he doesn't want me to "mess up" his clothes. This is just something else that makes me go... Hmmmm.
I wonder, if in fact an A is happening, how long has it REALLY been going on? As well as, how many times has an A happened in the past?
Thanks again for letting me vent.
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Girl, you have all reasons to be suspicious. There are too many signs, and I am almost sure from your description. The detective work might be extremely hard.
ANyways..keep us update.. I don't mind reading. I didn't do any detective work.. because I was BLINDLY in love with my husband and thought he would never cheat on me...so even when he was mean and cold and wasn't interested in sex anymore..I just blamed it on work and stress..until the day he cracked and told me he was having an EA then had one PA...
You have time to be prepare for the truth. The other members here have given you very good advice about not confronting him about anything solid. Expect him to go in anger if he found out that you were recording him. If you find something concrete.. tell us ...then we can talk whether it is the time to confront him. Do not go Lbing because you want to save your marriage.
Big hugs*
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SVB,
On the subject of clothes....some men do their own. I do mine but I've done that from the time before we were married thru today. I didn't start six monthes before my changed behavior was very obvious to my wife though.
That's another sign that something is going on.
Plan A your butt off. Be nice even if he snarls. Do some things for yourself. Exercise however you are able to: walk, jog, run, etc.
Let me give a bit more advice on the subject of Radio Shack. Since you don't have a doctor's appointment until after his next day off, I would advise this------> Set up the machine to record on his day off but knowing how I reacted to what I heard I wouldn't listen to the tape until after being on the perscribed meds for a few days. I know that you'll be anxious and curious but wait until the meds have had a chance to flatten out the mood swings. After all you can't change his behavior between now and then anyway.
Learn from my mistakes. I confronted my wife within a few days of the subject conversation. That was a mistake. Besides not being on meds and getting anxious and upset, I should have waited until after several such conversations. As it was she was able to deny the P aspect of the A but not the E aspect. It wasn't until 18 months later that she fianlly confessed leeding to alot of wasted "false recovery" time. It will seem impossible to wait but it is for your long term good and a faster recovery.
Anyway good luck.
cwmac
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Some things that happened to me that appear to be typical about the (in your case, alledged) WS.
This was all written with recovery in mind, and after a "successful" confrontation, so some of it might be a bit ahead of where you are at right now.
* Peculiar and wavering state of mind. Attribute this to their own desire to continue the A, in spite of knowing its wrong, and, also the realization that huge amounts of damage have been done and they have NO IDEA how to deal with it.
* Deep, DEEP down inside their hearts, they are experiencing two diametricly (SP?) opposed feelings of grief. One for the marriage they damaged, the other for the OP. Again, they don't know how to process both feelings at the same time.
* Emotional detachment. Knowing the pain they have caused, they are much more likely to hide from the pain, rather than face it straight up. This allows them to keep the fantasy alive.
* Argumentative and combative. WS's can be an endless fountain of LB's and disrespectful remarks designed solely to make the BS angry and respond with a vengence. This allows them to stay emotionally detached, and shift the BLAME for the affair having taken place to the BS.
* Sullen, quiet, withdrawn. All this a result of a combination of the above items. Look how much of an emotional drain it is to be the BS. The WS has an equal amount of emotional drama to deal with, it's just way different than what we, as the BS are going through.
* Complaints of being smothered. Of course. BS's are in Plan A, doing all the right things, and at the same time seeking answers, remorse, groveling (LOL), revenge, love, EN's, and some sense of the WS explaining the affair and returning to the marriage. And this is what the BS's expect in the first HOUR after DDay. Way too many emotions are in play, and both parties have needs that cannot be properly met by the other for several weeks, until the fervor of emotions wains, and people are thinking with clear minds. All of these things take time, and effort. Words to a foggy WS are like throwing cotton balls at a crocodile.
* WS's are all about them. It's me, me, me for the longest time. It's still all about the selfish mode they assumed to allow the A to happen and continue. Plan A, sort of keeps that in place. That's where care and caution need to come into play, so that as the fog lifts for a moment, a BS may have to employ "tough love", without LB's and DJ's. Timing and delivery are everything during this stage.
* Continued contact. Most of the posts I've seen here refer to more than one promise of NC before it truly takes place. Setbacks are common. My WW had 4 breeches before I believed this last "promise" might be the real deal.
* Lack of interest in learning how to recover. They are in such a state of denial, among other things, that they "don't need to recover". I finally "coerced" WW to read SAA aloud with me, but it was just a courtesy to me that she did it. It meant nothing to her, because at the time, she was still living the fantasy.
All these things seem to be pretty typical. I'm sure other posters can add more. Time, time, time, is the final answer, but the time spent needs to be filled with carefully executed Plan A, or Plan B, depending on the circumstances. Mix in some boundry setting, so the WS has some consequences for errors in His/Her ways, and hang on for the ride. Make the times that you have together pleasant for both of you, and choose NOT to talk about the A, recovery, OP, most of the time. Those talks should be semi-occasional, and not drawn out to become confrontational.
I don't know if any of these things might explain some of what you are going through, but I bet it might.
Stay strong and energized. You can survive this.
SD
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Well, my plan was foiled yesterday on setting up the recorder. I purchased it after work and planned on setting it up last night. When I came home, however, my H was there! He was supposed to work late - till 10. I had to leave it in the trunk. I checked his miles. Sure enough - 50 extra miles. (He works 3 miles away). I got that sick feeling in my stomach.
I walked in the house and he was doing laundry and cooking dinner. (not freshly showered, however.) He said he left early 3:30 ( I got home at 6:30) because he worked a long day the day before 7am -10pm. He also said he went to get a massage because he was stressed and sore. (He's got a receipt). He VOLUNTEERED all of this information, I did not ask him anything besides "I thought you worked till 10 today?" This is not his normal behavior lately, to volunteer information. I didn't mention the miles. I honestly don't know if it was from yesterday or the day before. Could he have travelled to another work site for a meeting? It's all possible. I don't know.
Anyway, I'm proud to say that I kept my calm. cwmac, as difficult as it was, I planned A'd my butt off as you suggested. He seemed really cautious (best word I could think of to describe him) when I first came home. I think he really expected me to confront him and LB. Afterwards, he was in a really good mood and pleasant. (relieved, maybe?) I read somewhere else on this board that someone mentioned that his W "is probably thanking her lucky stars that she's got such a gullible H." That's how I feel right now, like a gullible W. I'm happy that we had a positive night, though.
It's probably for the best that I couldn't set up the recorder just yet since I can't see my Dr. until next week, as you say, cwmac.
SD, thanks for your post, too. Everything you say seems to ring true in my situation, particularly with his wavering state of mind. It helps me see his side of things a little bit and understand his behavior.
The one thing I can say is that in the slim chance that nothing is going on with my H (or even if there is) my M will be hopefully be stronger in the long run with the help of this website and the members posting here with advice.
Thanks again, everyone, for your help.
svb
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svb,
I'll keep my fingers crossed that we're wrong and that your H is just secretly taking dance lessons on his day off to surprise you.
cwmac
Sorry if the black humor isn't appreciated but you have to keep things light or the insanity sets in.
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No, I really appreciate and need the humor. Thanks.
Well, I'm home again and there's another 50 miles on his car after his day off today. He's on the couch watching tv as if everything is normal. And I can't ask him anything!
I don't know how I'm going to get through this. My heart is pounding so fast.
svb
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svb,
If you're feeling "jumpy" then it's only a matter of time before you are going to blow it and LB either by getting mad or becoming the "grand inquisitor"
So............Get out of the house for awhile. Are you west coast or east? If east go for a drive. Yell at your H while you're driving and get it all out. If your west coast it's a beautiful day go for a walk. Think the yelling thru in your mind.
You need to keep your mind busy so that you'll keep your mouth shut. Sorry to say but true.
cwmac
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I'm happy to say that I kept my calm after all last night. Coming to this board really helped/helps me keep my focus on doing the right things. I was just quiet at first, and did not ask him AT ALL about what he did on his day off. I am trying really hard to be a loving and supportive W that he would want to be around.
He became relatively talkative and thoughtful last night. He even talked about us taking a trip to Cancun between my school semesters this spring!
Can anyone tell me, in their experience, does a H who is possibly having an A normally want to take a trip with his W like this? Or is this just a guilt thing?
I have to admit, he definitely seems to be coming out of his withdrawal stage, despite a couple of bad days. He is more willing to let me meet his EN, and meet some of mine as well.
I just grow more and more confused every day.
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SVB, Sounds as though you did weel last night. Congrats on that. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am trying really hard to be a loving and supportive W that he would want to be around. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what Plan A is all about!!! As for his talking about a trip. My W planned a family vacation to Europe. All the while in the midst of "hot & heavey" EA. She acted like such a pain on the trip that I was rude back so of course this rationalized her behavior. Their "sex expedition" occurred withina week of returning from this "vacation of a lifetime." Harley says that WS are involved in lying. They of course lie to the BS but they also lie to the A partner. If he is having an A, who knows what he's telling her. He may tell her that you are the monster of all times when you aren't in reality. BTW, he may not even mean it, but it's away to keep her interested. He may be telling her that you and he never have sex when it may be every day. etc. etc. There are alot of possibilities. Work on Plan A. Hopefully on his next day off you'll get some evidence that will help you plan your stategy to save your M. Have a good weekend!! cwmac
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Uggh! That's exactly what I was afraid to hear! I guess it doesn't mean anything that he wants to take a trip together. I guess if we go I will just try to make it as pleasant as possible.
I don't think that I'll be able to use my phone recorder after all. My special place for it is with a phone jack that doesn't work. I can't have it repaired w/o bringing my H's attention to it. My 2nd choice for a place for it has a higher chance of being discovered. I don't think I'd like to risk it.
Plan A has been working very well. I haven't slipped up at all recently. I'm noticing more and more changes in my H. He is beginning to open up to me more, particularly about work. Yesterday and today he came home from work going on and on about certain things. I was so stunned that he was talking so much that I didn't even know how to react. It was almost as if I were near a deer and was afraid that if I made any sudden movements I would scare him away!
I think I'm coming to terms with the fact that I may never know the truth about my H. I'll keep my eyes and ears open, and if I discover something, fine. If not, so be it. I don't think I have much of a choice. Hopefully, if plan A continues to go well, the possible A will eventually die out and he will no longer be interested in any OW. This is my wishful thinking anyway.
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SVB,
That's too bad about the recorder. The reason I say this is that IMHO it would be better to know for sure that he either is or isn't having the A whether E or P or both. That way if he isn't you will be able to totally trust him in the future. If he is you'll know it and although heartbreaking you can then decide what you want to do. You can decide to either try and repair the M or not.
As you indicated there will always be that doubt in your mind even if he is totallly innocent.
If the recorder won't work, you may want to consider hiring a PI to observe him on his day off to see where he goes for those 50 miles. I was going to do that before I heard the "conversations" I even sent the PI a check from our account. I told the W it was work related. If that's too risky start accumulating cash from ATM w/drawals. You can then pay with a cashier check or money order.
Just a few thoughts,
If you decide to leave MB's I wish you well.
cwmac
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You can always buy him a cell phone. Just make sure the company you sign up with shows the number of the incoming calls on the statements.
Verizon used to but now doesn't. Probably trying to save $$. If my W were having tha A today I may not have discovered it.
cwmac
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cwmac,
My H is anti-cell phone, so that probably wouldn't work.
However, the PI idea might work. The thought actually crossed my mind. Can you give me an idea on what a PI might charge for a day?
svb
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