Believer, our MC wanted us to have a physical seperation to give us time to heal from the hurt. In conjunction with that, we have a monday lunch date, night date during the week, and sunday family day.

We've been holding to this schedule for the most part. I've been showing an interest in everything she'll share with me.

Last week's night date, we shot pool, only for an hour, but it was fun while it lasted. Sunday family day wasn't much, but we worked out in the yard Monday and yesterday. We're supposed to go bowling at some point, and that was her idea. Sunday family day we'll probably go to the zoo.

So, we're doing fun things together, and I'm doing much better about not talking about our relationship. Last couple of days kinda required it though, with her talking about submitting resumes and such. Thanks for your support, trying to keep my chin up, gets difficult at times.

I really don't see her leaving her horse, kids and you. I think putting in resumes is more of a threat. Hang in there, you can do this.

WW brought home more job listings for the Northeast. Actually, at this point I'm pretty sure she's going to submit them, and still expects me to relocate with her. I've said, I'm not relocating unless there is an us. I believe we'll get all moved where ever, and then she'll drop the bombshell that there is no us. I can't wait for counseling next week.

I went to bed around 10:30pm, when WW's upstairs typing on her computer, the clacking of the keys sends me spiraling into anxiety attacks. To prevent this, I turn on the sleep function of my alarm clock. That way, all I hear is music.

Well, when the sleep function shut off at 11:30pm I woke up, and decided to go have a smoke. WW's computer is right by the railing upstairs. So, I'm coming up the stairs, and she says, "What are you doing up?" I told her I woke up and decided to have a smoke. Jeez.

Had my smoke, and I was headed back to bed, and for some unknown reason, I asked what WW and OM were talking about. I obviously was not told. Don't even know why I asked.

Got back in bed, and I forget why at this point, but got back out and went to say something to WW, she made it appearant she was irritated I was back up again.

Well, third times the charm. I got back in bed, and as I lay there, I started feeling an overwhelming need for affection, I'm so lonely, hurt, and afraid. So I built up the courage to go back upstairs and ask her to hold me for a minute. Big mistake. She thought I meant for her to come downstairs to my room and lay with me on my bed. Her initial reaction was "why?". Tried explaining I just wanted to be close to her. When it became obvious that wasn't going to happen I started heading back downstairs when she mentioned she used to need affection and when she didn't get it from me she looked elsewhere. I said, and that's the difference, I don't want it from someone else. I asked her why she was so upset, and she said something about me coming upstairs and WHINING about needing affection. I came upstairs baring my heart and feelings and she might as well have kicked me in the face.

I'm done trying to show her any affection. We're not doing date night this week, I don't mind really as we've spent a lot of time together this week, probably more than we should have. I'm going back to not showing her anything.

I did however, tell her I was leaving for work this morning. She said, bye and have a nice day.

Whatever.

Well, not long after my last post. WW called me at work. She wanted to apologize for last night. I said I don't understand, I thought she made her feelings perfectly clear last night.

She further explained she was chatting with her mom online. If you're familiar with my situation then you know WW's mom is on my side. Appearantly, she was nagging WW again about being selfish, etc. So, the timing of last night was just bad.

I told her that, I didn't understand why she was doing this, when I know how she feels about me. She said she owes it to me for the years we've been together and for the kids. Personally, that would be nice, but it's never going to work while OM is part of the picture, and she doesn't believe that to be true.

From my perspective, our relationship is at a standstill, and with every altercation, no matter how small, it just keeps slipping further and further away.

More baffling.

Received a response from WW to an email I sent yesterday. Was basically about date night, which we had discussed when I got home yesterday (went out with the guys after work for a beer). WW asked if we could skip date night since we've done date night for the last 4 weeks. I thought about what the counselor said about us need to strictly adhere to the date schedule and how much time we spent together this week and decided we had spent plenty of time together already, so I told her no problem, if that's what she wanted to do.

To my astonishment, in her email she offered an alternative to going bowling. She asked if we could go get coffee somewhere like Borders and just sit and talk. She also signed the email with "Love,". She hasn't done that since DDay.

Imagine my surprise when I recieved yet another phone call from WW. Just to tell me she sent me an email. She got my response while talking. I have to stop and pick up some videos for the kiddos and we're going to go have coffee at Border's and sit and talk.

With everything that's gone on in the last month and a half, this is just out of character, and I can't help but think she's up to something. Going to plan A my butt off, but cautiously.

I'm just stunned by today's events.

Well, sticking to my guns. WW got home from work, and I basically did my best to ignore her. I went out for a smoke when she got home, and she came out to join me. She went in first, and called me to see the 2 cats lying side by side on the dryer. The kids came in, and went on through the laundry room leaving WW and I alone. WW held her arms out for a hug. Thought about it for a minute, and decided to Plan A it. Gave her a nice hug.

But I refuse to initiate any affection from now on. Didn't even try to touch her or hold her hand tonight. When we got home, I wasn't even going to say good night. But she asked if I was going to bed, I said no, but I was going to my room. She said good night, and I said I'll be back up for a smoke before I go to bed.

WW had mentioned before that I should pick up a Kama Sutra book. So, while we were at Border's I picked one up. The table area was full, so we went to a St. Louis Bread Company. Sitting there, drinking our coffees, and looking at my Kama Sutra book. Hmmm, that was her idea.

Wish I knew what she's up to. Surprisingly enough, aside from her teasing me a lot lately, seems sex is a very frequent topic of conversation even though she's not interested in me.

As a matter of fact, due to the current circumstances, and some of the things she's said to me, I don't have a lot of self esteem at the moment.

Something I forgot to mention last night, but WW was looking for a philosophy book while we were at Border's. Something to help her understand where she is in life, and where she wants to be.

Also, after we got home, she spent several hours going through all of her newspaper clips picking out some to send with her resumes. Appearantly there is one in particular that she's hoping to get. I can imagine it's the one in Philadelphia. Think I'll try to get that out of her at somepoint today.

WW called me at work, and I asked her out of all the job listings, if she had a favorite. And she said no, she'd be happy with whatever she got as long as it was out of this area.

Guess she's still lying and being deceptive. Why am I not surprised.

I'm really getting tired of this roller coaster. Chatted with WW last night. Was a very good conversation.

WW said, she loves me, but not romantically like a wife should. We both agreed, that's something that grows in the right environment, and we both agree we haven't reached that right environment. We're both very tense around each other, expecting the worst. We know, we can't have positive progression until we're comfortable around each other.

I brought up last Monday, when we were holding each other on my bed, and I mentioned before I asked if it was for me or for her. She didn't like the question. I finally realized, she doesn't want to admit right out front that she's been having periods of needing me. Last Monday, was just as much for me as it was for her.

WW went so far as to mention there were a few nights where she almost came down to my room to invite me upstairs. I told her, I've been patiently waiting every night for that very thing to happen. She said, not yet.

DD(3) has been having problems sleeping. I think I finally figured out what her problem is. For the last 3 years, she's always woken up in the middle of the night and climbed into bed with mommy and daddy. There's some special security being between both your parents. And I think, my moving downstairs created some distress.

After our chat last night, we went out for a smoke before bed. She gave me a hug and a kiss, and I went downstairs for the last time. As I was getting ready for bed, DD(3) woke up crying, and didn't want Mommy, she wanted her Daddy. I offered to lay down in WW's room with her and DD(3) until she went to sleep, just for a little while. WW said ok.

When I realized I was starting to fall asleep, I said I better get back downstairs before I fell asleep. Just as I was about to walk out of the room, she called my name. I stopped and said,"Yes?" WW said, I could stay upstairs if I wanted. I was stunned. From our chat, it was the last thing I expected. I know when she's offering affection, I have to accept and return what I can, otherwise she may stop all together.

From our chat, I told WW I understood why she hadn't invited me back upstairs. She's afraid I would think everything is ok, and things would revert back to the way they were. I explained, there's no way that could happen, this was a life changing experience like that bad scar that always itches. I'll never forget, and because of that it'll always be a reminder of how not to be. With or without her.

We also talked about her looking for a new job. She just wants out of here, and any one of the places would be better. She admitted there is one she'd really like to get, and it's not the one in Philly, it's south of Boston. The job description is what WW is interested in writing about.

Obviously, this leads into my concern about the proximity to OM. She said, she can't allow someone she's never met, regardless of how she feels about him, to affect her career choices. I brought up I know how she feels about him, and that if they really did agree to be friends, that it must be hard to not let her feelings interfere. She said it is. I told her again, I'd never accept anything other than NC with OM forever. She said she knows.

This last week, I've seen more effort from her since this all started. Now, I've got 2 ways of looking at this. 1) She's trying to lull me into a false sense of security to eventually screw me over, or 2)She really is trying, and this is extremely hard on her.

I admitted my friends/family have advised me on many occasions to run away as fast as I can. Based on what I've posted here, everyone has their own opinions about the situation. I've had people here positively reinforce my efforts, and there have been people that have advised I need to accept it's over. WW said she was getting the same thing, but she said she feels she needs to do this for us and the kids. You just don't throw 7 years away. I let her know I told my family/friends, if this works out, it's never to be brought up again...EVER. She agreed.

I realize, everything here, may be skewed by my own perception. I try to keep the events as accurate as possible, and then explain my thoughts and feelings about those events.

It's my understanding Plan A truely starts after WS commits to NC with OP. My WW has yet to accept that yet, and I'm left with going through Plan A anyway.

Counseling is next Wednesday, and I'm going to bring up the WW looking for a new job, mostly in the North East, and the proximity to OM. I'll also tell her, I've admitted to being willing to relocate anywhere with her, as long as there is an US, but I'm not sure I can handle being that close to OM. I think the proximity will be too much to resist.

I really feel bad for WW at times. She went through a lot of effort to get her degree, and it's being wasted on this backwater paper. As much as I want her to feel fulfilled by her efforts, I don't want her to get any of the jobs in the North East.

So, I continue with the in house seperation, and try to avoid WW as much as possible. I continue to meet as many emotional needs she will let me, when she indicates she needs. The hardest thing is waiting for her to come to me, especially with the loneliness, pain, anxiety, and fear welling up inside of me.

We're still working on communicating with each other. We're aware we need to pay more attention to each other when we're talking. We need to watch for body posture, facial expressions, and tone of voice. With both of us expecting the worst at any moment, it's difficult to stay focused on what we're actually saying. At least we're both aware of the nature of our difficulties.

Oh, Wednesday, when WW interpreted me saying I thought she was a crappy mom, she indicated if I had just come out and said something about her reprioritizing her day, then she wouldn't have thought I was saying she was a crappy mom.

This is positive isn't it? We're moving in the right direction aren't we? Or, is this just another peak on the roller coaster?

Your doing good RW, I did the same thing, even let the wife kick me out 3 times to stay with all things her.... mother lol.
You WILL win out buddy just keep your chin up and keep on............ 7 years is a long time and that history just doesnt come you earn it, she doesnt want to lose your mariage anymore thna you do....... Ill keep reading your posts and jump in when you need it, my WW acted the same way..... until she just came back to me after realizing the mistake she made and i was honest with her the mistakes that I had made and was ready to make a REAL change in everything, like i said it was almost 8 months of hell but worth every day of it now.........

my prayers are with you buddy..
cliff

RWukovich:

One of the things I've read in Torn Assunder recently, is that the author recommends that the WS try to get more same sex friends/or confide in same sex friends. I don't know about your WW, but mine has always had trouble making friends with other women. There is something catty that always comes out, but she's never had a problem making friends with guys (other than several have wanted to get in her pants). Has she made any new friends recently or tried?

Well, she does have same sex friends, not any new that I'm aware of. Her best friend of 20 years is same sex, and recently got divorced herself and is WW's main person to talk to. I think WW is getting a lot of bad advice from her. Nothing I can do about it either.

Was looking over WW's resume, and she opened chat window from OM. In it, he referred to her as "my love". I asked WW if she used endearing terms as well. And she said she did. I said, don't you think that's a bit endearing for just trying to be friends? And she said, they are friends, but the feelings are more than just a friendship. Then she said I was reading more into it. Whatever.

Well, since my last post. We had our lunch date on Monday, DD(3) came with us as she had a follow up doctor's appointment. While there, I asked him about something for the anxiety/panic attacks that sneak up on me. He prescibed Xanax(sp?) but I got a generic from the drugstore. I'm only supposed to use it when I need it. Appearantly, they are addictive.

So, the fact remains. My WW's definition of they're just friends, includes endearing phrases and what not. Nothing I can do, but point it out in counseling. Along with, her expectations that I'll relocate with her if she gets a job. I'm sure the counselor will have something to say about that.

Last night was ok, I guess. Not much in the way of physical affection, but we chatted for a bit, and it seemed ok. Today she has to work late, and is going in early. Tonight, another night for me with the kids.

At one point I told WW I'd relocate with her anywhere, if there was an US. This past Sunday, it became clear to me they are not just friends as WW says. They are in contact several times a day.

After careful consideration, I've decided I'm not sure I can relocate with her. The only way I'd consider it, is if she commited herself 100% to the marriage. This would require no less than NC for ever. I've told her I'd accept no less. Even if she did commit 100%, I don't think she'd hold to it. If she gets any of the jobs she's sending resumes to in his area, I believe she wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to meet him.

She wants me to relocate with her so if we don't stay together we'll both be in the same area for the kids. I just don't think I should give up my job, my career, for her in that situation.

I intend to make it clear to the counselor tonight what she's doing and how she wants it to happen. I'll do this without giving up my intentions, don't want to tip my hand just yet. Besides, I think the counselor, once she hears this, will say everything I won't say.

WW dreads counseling days, she feels it's WW bashing time. I decided, today, I'd go with the flow. I'll mention there have been some good days and bad days. When asked about the bad days, I'll bring up that what the WW considers to be just a friendship, isn't a friendship to me. And I'll explain how I came to know this information,which should lead into the whole relocation dillema.

Haven't needed to take any of my anxiety/panic pills yet, but as today rolls on, it's building, and I still have 8 hours to go.

I will Plan A up to the point she gets the job. If/when she goes for an interview, I'm sure she'll take that time to try and meet him. I'll try and be patient as long as I can. But, I don't know if I can handle that.

I'm really hoping with the information that should be revealed today, that she sees some light. I fully expect the counselor to tell WW her expectations about me relocating are ludicrous. Ok, she may not call them ludicrous, but she should definitly say they aren't fair.

Here's to this afternoon, wish I could have a beer first.

I think I would tell WW that it would not be fair to the kids to uproot them during this stressful time in your marriage. Also I would let her know that you cannot follow her under the circumstances.

Then let her go and remind her to send child support.

Believer, I'm kinda hoping the counselor will mention those things, but if she doesn't I'll be sure to bring it up. I just want to mention the facts, and allow the counselor to explain the ramifications to WW. Or, if she asks me how I feel about it, then I'll bring it up.

And if she does decide to take the divorce route, the state I'm in allows you to sue the person who caused alienation of affection. So, I'll sue OM, because up until this happened, I thought everything was ok.

RW,

please get yourself a lawyer. If she moves and takes the kids, you will be forced to move or risk being "uncle dad" to your children. You need to know what you are up against. The legal system is not father-friendly as a rule.

I know you are trying to save your marriage and by all means, continue to do so. The people on this site are wonderful.

But you also have to protect yourself and your children. I just can't stand to see someone be destroyed and lose their children in the process.

Yes, you may sue for alienation, etc., but a contested divorce is very expensive, nasty, can take years, and in the end the lawyers end up the big winners.

Take care of yourself.

ITB:

Thanks for the advice. It's a little more complicated than that. We have 2 kids, the oldest DD(12) is from a previous marriage. WW will NEVER get her. As far as DD(3) is concerned, WW nor I want to seperate them.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

Counseling, hmmm, well, WW said yesterday if she actually got a job offer, then we'd sit down and talk and she'd make a decision about us then.

At which point I brought up the boundary I decided on. Surprisingly enough, WW expressed this was news to her. I said if there was an us, there could be NC with OM FOREVER. Seems to me, I've been telling WW all along, if there's an us, then there is no OM.

I also expressed the lack of trust and living anywhere near OM. I brought up the fact that 2 years ago when she had her affair, she did it under my nose on her 2 hour lunch breaks, and it'll take a long time to rebuild that trust again.

So yesterday was pretty much me getting out my reservations about the whole looking for a job thing, and how it affects our 6 month time table for WW to decide if she even wants to stay in the marriage.

Of course, this sounds really messed up to me, since WW says that by doing what we're doing she is working on our marriage. Granted, this last week I have seen an effort on her part.

After WW got home last night, there was one time she actually called me honey, but the rest of the night WW seemed distant.

Now, I'm living from day to day, Plan A'ing as much as I can, and giving her space. I hate my life being in a state of limbo, while she continues to talk to OM as much as she wants.

Still haven't had date night this week, looks like it'll be Friday. Saturday night WW has a Wiccan Full Moon Ritual thing for Beltane.

Seeing how my thread has basically become my journal through this horrible time in my life, I'll post more later.