Today was probably the first day I didn't have something negative to say in counseling. WW didn't have anything negative to say either. Surprisingly, she was quite positive.

We ended up talking about the altercation we had Saturday night, and how we might have handled it better.

WW's childhood affects her ability to cope with conflict. She goes defensive then offensive, then wants to drive off until she's not mad anymore and not actually solve any problems.

WW also admitted to telling me things in such a way as to protect my feelings. Counselor explained that's not being honest, and most people, including me, would rather hear the truth regardless of how painful it is. It's much more preferrable to being "protected".

Counselor walked us back through the altercation to show us how we might have handled things differently, and how that might have affected the situation. Not sure how effective it was, due to it showed me what I already knew about WW's inability to deal with conflict.

One day at a time...

<small>[ May 05, 2004, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

Been real busy last couple of days. Thursday night, went to a friends house. WW wanted to interview them for a story she's working on about cultural differences etc. My friend's wife and step son are from Russia.

Long story, I had to leave at 6:30 to take DD(12) to her last school choir concert of the year. It was over at 8:30, and WW was still over at MY friends house. But, she left there shortly after my call.

She got home a little after 9pm. Both children were ready for bed. DD(3) was down in my room settling down for the night. WW laid down in my room for a little bit, and got up and went to take out her contacts. Not long after that, she called downstairs to me. Invited me right up into her room. Don't need to provide anymore details about that.

The big thing here is, she didn't say it was just sex before hand. I made a point to look right into her eyes and told her that I loved her. No response, expected as much. No biggie there.

Later, when I was back in my room, we were chatting, and she mentioned she had noticed how different things were with me since this past weekend. She went so far as to say, things were better, not perfect, but tolerable. I guess that's a step up from what she was saying when this first all started. You know, that I was an irritating room mate...

Anyone know where I can buy something to jerk her butt off the fence? Lasso maybe?

Anyway, for date night tonight, she suggested take out chinese before we go see a movie. Van Helsing. Think we'll have to discuss dinner plans more. I think afterwards I'll talk her into a beer or a coffee for some actual conversation instead of just sitting next to me in a theatre.

Be sure to bring ear plugs to the movie. It is very loud. Sounds like things are going fairly well. Keep on keeping on.

I thought the movie was great, not awesome, but great. There were some things WW and I both agreed could have been done differently, but overall we liked it and had a good time. Wouldn't mind mentioning some things about it, but don't want to spoil anything for people who haven't seen it yet.

Going to movies with WW have always been a "close" thing. We would hold hands or I would just put my hand on her leg. Last night was good. WW let me keep my hand on her leg, and even held it off and on throughout the movie. It felt good.

During the week, in one of the emails I sent WW, I suggested doing some camping before it gets too uncomfortable to camp. Well, on the way to the movie, I brought this up. WW thought it was a good idea, and suggested we go to a nearby lake/campground. It'll only be for one night, because it was a spur of the moment decision. She'll head out there today with the kids, and when I get off work, I'll go out and find them. Sounds like hide and seek huh?

Sometimes I hate working on Saturdays, but I guess there are pros and cons to everything. This morning before I left for work, I kissed DD(3(3), and I've been kissing WW on the head/cheek and wishing her a good day. This morning, she was awake and puckered up for a kiss on the lips. I said I hope she has a good day, and I'll see her later, I love you, bye. She said I love you too. What a nice start to what promises to be an awesome weekend!

Don't want to overshadow any of the good with any of the bad, but I feel to be fair to my readers, I need to include as much as I can of what I know.

Facts: WW is going to Best Friends Memorial Day weekend. From the Wednesday before, to Monday. OM is also planning an end of May trip, I know not where. Best Friend is recently divorced and seeing a married man.

Suspicions: I believe Best Friend's situation influences WW. I believe Best Friend would help WW decieve me by having OM come visit too over Memorial Day vacation.

Due to lack of trust, I know what I must do, and I don't like it. But, I have to know if WW is telling the truth, that it's just going to be her and her Best Friend. I have plenty of time to find out.

Don't worry about what hasn't happened yet. Try to have a great time camping and start building up new memories together. I love to camp.

Hopefully it will give you some rest and relaxation. You really need that about now.

You're right Believer, I'm really looking forward to getting off work today! WW called me and asked if I could pick some stuff up on the way out to the campground. BEER! oh yeah, and water! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Gosh, I can't remember the last time I looked so forward to going camping.

Thinking only happy, positive thoughts. No negative vibes!

Good for you. And don't blame yourself for thinking negative thoughts, we all go through that. Don't expect too much from her while camping, just enjoy. It will be good for you.

And remember the A is not about you, but mostly about your WW's weakness. So be strong, and lead her back to the marriage. Have fun.

Well, camping was great. We all got sunburned! WW and I got along really well. We even talked about taking a camping trip without the kids, and all that implies.

Not sure if this means anything, but I've been getting a lot of "I love you too's" lately. Not every time, but enough. Just wondering if she'll ever say it first.

Last night, WW mentioned since it was Mother's Day she shouldn't have to cook. I agreed, and I fixed dinner, and cleaned the kitchen afterwards.

Later, we were outside having a smoke, and I said if we're still together for next year's Mother's Day, I'd get her a hotel room with a jacuzzi and get her a day at a spa.

Today on our lunch date, she mentioned she expected to get that next year. I didn't even respond. She said it as if we would be together next Mother's Day. And still no commitment to our marriage.

GAH, I'm just so tired of being lonely. My twin bed sucks, and she's up in our Queen size. I hate waking up in the middle of the night and reaching over to put my arm around her, only to realize I'm all alone, downstairs in a rinky dink twin size bed.

Sounds very promising to me. I would try to stick it out a bit longer.

I'm glad you had a nice time camping. Try to think of some other fun things to do, together alone, or with the kids.

While we were camping, we even talked about going camping without the kids. She seemed ok with that notion too. Wonder if it will ever come to fruition. Guess we'll see what happens when she gets back from her 5 day Memorial Day vacation to her best friends house in Kansas City.

Had a little talk with WW this afternoon. I mentioned I was happy with the changes in my life. She said that's all that mattered was my happiness with the changes. I asked how she felt about them. WW said she was fine with them, but she was working on that love thing.

I asked if she meant if she could love me, or if she ever loved me, or if she does love me. At first, she didn't want to answer, and I said, I was just trying to understand what she meant. Then she said all of the above.

I'm guessing that's another positive, not sure. I do know there has been no conflict for the last week and a half. I have no idea what were going to talk about in counseling.

This has been going on for 2 months now. I wasn't sure I'd ever be able to make it this long. But here I am, willing to finish this out to our agreed upon 6 months, if it takes that long.

Here's something interesting. One of WW's coworkers does metal detecting, and has a very nice metal detector. Appearantly WW mentioned losing her ring and where. The coworker knows the director of the historical site and thinks he can get permission to go look for it. I said, that's pretty cool, but I thought it didn't mean anything to her anyway. She even mentioned if we stayed together she wanted a knotwork wedding band. She said, you're right, and got quiet.

I pried a little bit more, and she finally let on if he found it she'd be more than happy to put it back on. That dumbfounded me a bit. Maybe she's leaning my way....

<small>[ May 11, 2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

Counseling went well. So well in fact, WW and I are to continue doing what we're doing. The counselor feels the last week and a half is the path we should be on. WW also expressed it's been good. The counselor felt things were going so well in fact, she made our next appointment 2 weeks from now.

However, I elected to have individual counseling next Wednesday. I figure that's when I'll have the best opportunity to talk about all my concerns and feelings. I figure she's the best person to vent to.

Since we've been home, WW has been irritable, not at me, but in general. I think it being that time of the month might have something to do with it.

As of today, D-Day was exactly 2 months ago. Only 5.5 months to go for WW to decide to stay in the marriage or not. Not sure if how things are going at the moment will make a difference or not. Still can't stand having to share WW with OM. But, we can't move forward with our marriage until she decides what she wants.

The counselor believes some of WW's issues stem from childhood, and recommended a book for her to read. I would have to agree. WW has some seriously messed up issues.

I'll continue to post on this thread, especially since I'm using it as my own journal of sorts. Documenting my journey through this nightmare called life.

I think your wife does have issues. Of course it is hard for you to be going through all of this. Just remember, the reason she is doing this probably has very little to do with you.

So take a deep breath, stand up, and lead her back to the marriage.

Well, I've told WW that I love her, and I understand what she's going through. I told her I'd give her the time to make the decision that's right for her. I have hope.

Last night, we made dinner together and she picked up stuff to make drinks. Dinner was awesome, and the drinks were awesome. Another girl at the barn took care of her horse last night. I put DD(3) in the bathtub and WW finished bathing her. Of course, I vaccumed the entire house, inlcuding her room. I also cleaned the garage. Didn't even get an acknowledgment for any of those things. By 10pm she was asleep on the couch. When I went to bed, I covered her up and she woke up briefly. She did thank me for covering her up. No idea what time she woke up and went to bed.

Date night tonight, we're going bowling. That's another thing. At counseling on Wednesday, she mentioned when it's my week to decide on Date Night, she doesn't want me to give her a list of things we can do for her to pick from. She wants me to pick one and then ask her hey how about we do this?

Been thinking about this. I can plan a nice dinner somewhere and then take her someplace we've never been that I think would be cool. The horsetrack! Seeing how she loves horses, I think it would be a cool idea. Next week is her night to plan Date Night, and the week after she'll be in Kansas City with her Best Friend from Wednesday after counseling till Monday afternoon/evening. So I guess, I'll have to plan something for that week after she gets home.

Been doing a lot of thinking about what I can/want to discuss in my individual counseling next week. I figure it'll be a good time to tell the counselor about all of my feelings I've not been able to express in joint sessions. I've got lots of anger, frustration, fear, sadness, lonliness, and lack of self esteem. Personally, I think I'll have to deal with these feelings until she makes her decision to go or stay. It's the coping with these emotions that makes it hard to keep the time we're together happy time.

DD(12) had her counseling session yesterday, took all of about 20 minutes. Have to keep her doc up to date on what the home life is like. Based on the current situation, we decided to keep her off medication unless she starts to have a more severe reaction to our situation. Currently, she's still making good grades, has a good appetite, and is getting plenty of sleep. I talk to her and spend time with her. Her next appointment is for 3 months from now. Hopefully, we'll have a better feel for how things are going to be by then.

Hudson, NY, is a very small town. I live there. If you want to know about OM, I might be able to do a little recon. Doesn't sound as though you need to though... it sounds like everything is going pretty well for you right now.

Orangecrush:

Well, OM is still an issue, unfortunately he'll continue to be so until WW decides she wants to stay married. Not sure how familiar you are with my story, but I'm Plan A'ing my butt off, but I'm still in limbo until WW gets off the fence.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

RW,
It couldn't hurt to find out anything about OM -especially if the situation arose where it could help in a legal situation later. Although we hope it doesn't come to that. Didn't someone say "well begun is halfway done"? Anyway, any non-instrusive checks you could do could be helpful. Just keep it close to the vest until it's needed.

Friday night Date Night, went out to eat, then went to the mall to visit the video arcade. Well, walked by a book store and didn't make it to the video arcade before the mall started closing. No biggie really, just spending time with WW is good. Suggested we stop and have a couple drinks on the way home, but WW suggested she fix us a drink at home and sit outside for a little bit. Thought that was a good idea, however, DD(12) was still up and wanted to join us outside. WW got cold and went inside after while, and that was the end of that.

Saturday, Girls Day out. WW planned to take the girls to an Art Festival. Called me about 15 minutes before I got off work and asked if I wanted to come out and join them. I was thrilled! I even got an I love you too when we hung up.

Also on Saturday, called WW early in the morning, and ended up asking how she felt about me telling her I love her all the time, because most of the time there are noticeable pauses before she responds. WW said not sure what to say. I told her I understood, and didn't expect any response.

Saturday night, WW online chatting with OM and me. We were online until 1am.

Sunday, I got up, made coffee, and made breakfast. Wasn't really anything special, but I've never done that. Not sure if it made any difference. We went to the zoo, that was great fun! WW actually showed some affection today, from calling my hon/honey, to holding my hand in the car, and actually rubbing my arm and back a few times at the zoo. Got an excellent workout in the process. DD(3) weighs about 30 pounds and rode on my shoulders most of the time. St Louis Zoo is like one of 3 zoos in the country that's free to get into. Not to mention, they're making awesome improvements to it all the time.

Been asking WW about sending out more resumes every day. So far, the only ones she has out are all in the NE, where I absolutely don't want to go. Thinking she's putting it off on purpose.

Sunday night, not too bad I suppose, WW went to ride her horse, and DD(12) started crying when she went to bed, my room is right next to hers. Went to talk to her, and she was crying because she doesn't want us to divorce. I tried explaining that is a possible outcome, but so is us staying together, and at this point we're still a family doing family things, so we need to continue to behave like a family. WW doesn't usually chat with OM when the kids are up.

WW and I discussed something interesting last night, appearantly we both feel sometimes affection between us feels normal, and strange the other times. I expressed my times sometimes feel strange when I make the mistake of stopping and thinking about our situation. She never really said why her strange times are strange.

Oh, and she talked about her mean side too. Personally I think it's a result of her childhood. I told her there are times I'm afraid to touch her, hug her, kiss or, or talk to her. And she said I shouldn't be afraid to talk to her.
So, I explained about some of the hurtful mean things she's said to me. They're all here in this thread, but that's when she started talking about her mean side. WW indicated sometimes she means those mean hurtful things, and other times she doesn't. I really think she's messed up. Not just the fog, but some serious mental issues.

Only time will tell, I'm just afraid living like this each day, is just going to keep killing whatever love I have for her. If the good times don't get better, not sure how I'm going to feel by the time she gets off the fence.

Tomorrow, she's off from work because she has to work next Saturday. WW already informed me she plans to spend it all out at the barn, no Monday Lunch Date or anything.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

What kind of chat line are you on that you talk to WW and OM?

Oh, I don't talk to OM, WW does. We use AIM, and she talks to several people at once.

Monday, got up, got DD(3) ready for Daycare and took her in. Came home, WW was still in bed, so I went in there, she was mostly awake. I laid down on the bed, and mentioned how much I miss that bed. It's really comfortable. She asked if I missed the bed, or her being in it. I said both. I stayed there for a few minutes, and got up, and she asked where I was going. I don't remember what I said, but thought maybe she didn't want me to leave. So, I laid back down again. This time I moved closer to her and put an arm around her. Stayed there for a few minutes longer, then started feeling guilty because I had invited myself in there instead of her inviting me. She fell asleep and I got up and fixed myself a cup of coffee and went outside to make some phone calls to my parents.

WW finally got up, and came outside. She mentioned something about me not snuggling for very long. Told her I felt guilty for inviting myself and not being invited.

Well, WW's horse destroyed her feed tub in her stall at the barn. The Barn Manager and WW were unsuccessful in removing the broken feed tub. I volunteered to take my hand-dandy trusty can of WD-40 and my tools to try and get it off. She said ok. Well, WW wanted to get a waist pouch to carry stuff in like her phone for when she's out trail riding, which is one of the things she wanted to do yesterday.

We needed some stuff for the house too, so we went to Wal-Mart and then headed to the barn. I got the old broken feed tub off, and the new one installed. WW was very thankful.

I hung around a little longer, until she was getting her horse ready to ride, and I said I was going home and for her to call me when she was ready for me to come pick her up. So, she says to her horse something about me not wanting to watch her ride. At this point, I said I'd like to stay and watch her ride, I enjoy it. I watched her ride for about 30 minutes in the arena, when she decided she was ready to go for a trail ride, and she said she'd call me when she was ready for me to pick her up.

Went home, worked on laundry, and thought of some things.

First bad point: How can having sex just to have sex be a problem when she had her affair just to have sex?
Second bad point: We're having an in house seperation, what I do in my room is my business first of all. Secondly, I'm only online when she gets on the computer. How can what she's doing online be any better than what I'm doing online. Personally, I think what I'm doing is much more harmless than what she's doing.

First thing I said to myself is I need to make sure I don't jump to any extremes. So, I fumed about it for awhile, trying to figure out what to do. I decided I wouldn't try staying offline, so when we're online at the same time, I'll just have to make sure she knows I'm NOT playing solitaire. As far as the sex is concerned, I'll just stop asking all together since it seems to bother her so much. I plan to continue Plan A'ing my butt off. I will continue to show her affection, and express my love to her. I'm basing these decisions from what I see in the real world.

Oh, and I did her laundry yesterday. I didn't do her laundry because it needed doing, but because I needed to do mine, and she started hers first. I could have just piled the clean clothes on her bed, but I know if someone took my clothes out of the dryer, I'd appreciate it if they took the measures to make sure they didn't end up all wrinkled.

Last night, we sat on the same couch after dinner, and I ended up rubbing her feet. WW's riding boots are great for riding, but not for spending a lot of time walking in. I was sitting at the end of the couch and she was laying down with her feet in my lap.

We watched CSI:Miami (NY CSI intro) and afterwards she fell asleep on the couch, and didn't even get online.

So, for the most part, our interactions are good, but that's about it. Our 6 month in house seperation agreement began at the beginning of May, so got lots of time for feelings, opinions to change.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

They're all too faced when involved in an A. The other thing that is good is that she is noticing your changes.

Please remember that most women do not get into affairs for sex - it is for emotional reasons.

The rubbing feet thing is good. Keep that up. Someday I'm going to write a book for men about what women need. They need affection and carressing that does not lead to sex. I have heard this from hundreds of women, but men just don't get it.