Well I don't think you are the problem. You sound just fine to me.

However, she has given you an important clue. So get busy doing something so you can talk about it with her.

Let's see. How about working with the computer with some kind of photography program. Then you could take pictures of her and horse, and make it into art. I have a neighbor that is a photographer, and she has lots of her own art around the house.

Any projects that you could do around the house? Painting, or a garden? Geez, I don't know what men like. How about going shooting together? Hmmmm, might be dangerous.

Maybe plan a short camping trip.

Help me out here.

See that's the funny thing Believer, we've done/do all those things, except for the shooting of course.

here's the link to her site, she's taken most of these pictures, but some of them I've taken.

destination-lost.deviantart.com

We do gardening around the house, I've been helping maintain them, which is something I've never done before.

Not a lot of projects we want to do around the house, due to the possibility of her getting a job and us relocating.

Last camping trip was over Mother's Day.

I'm becoming friends with her barn manager, maybe I can start spending more time with him.

I'm pretty sure WW wouldn't want me to focus on her interests, because it would look like to her that I'm only doing it for her instead of for myself. Sad thing is, I like all the things she's interested in, for the most part.

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

Wow, nice pictures - it looks like paradise there.

Okay, so photography is out. How about volunteering to coach something? Or setting up somekind of computer related business?

It may be that she is in the fog. But she seems to be a very accomplished, creative person. Maybe she wants you to do some things on your own - or maybe not. It is so hard to tell what is what when they are in the fog.

RW,
Boy do I feel like scrooge! Sorry, but please! Let’s examine the situation minus the rose colored glasses.

You’re boring! Since when? Since she married you? Since she met the OM? Since she started posting at deviants.com? Since when? And now in an effort to please her you’re about to do what? Change what?

My friend, you are the person that you are. A good, kind generous man and father. And a man that doesn’t cheat on his W I might add! Anything you do to change that would be contrived and dishonest. Besides, how do you plan to live for the rest of your life being some one you’re not? And now you can’t show an interest in what she’s interested in?! Because that wouldn’t please her? Add to that what you just posted…

*I don't think WW has the integrity for 100% NC with OM. The problems we're still faced with are the problems with our relationship before OM ever came into the picture, not to mention OM isn't even out of the picture yet. I'm not sure to what extent the contact is still there, but I know they post comments to each other's pictures on Deviant Art.*

Further, you go on to write…

*Zero steps have been taken to work on the problems in our relationship. WW still spends all hours at night online chatting and surfing Deviant Art.*

RW, what is going on here? And deviantart.com! It’s practically a dating site! My friend I know that you’re encouraged by what seems to be progress but are you sure that you’re not selling yourself on something that’s not real?

coach

coach -

Have you checked out the site, deviantart.com? I have looked through the whole site, and it seems to me that these are some very creative, individualistic people. I found nothing offensive, just wonderful art.

Coach: I guess I didn't make my self clear. The first day she said I love you and touched me with affection, I did get my hopes up. Since then, things feel the way they did before she did those things. Of course, my hopes have backed off, and I still question where this is going.

I don't think there is anything left to change. As far as interests are concerned, I look at it from the perspective of learning is a good thing. Anything I do is because I'm interested. I'm only saying I feel if I show interest in things WW is interested in, then I think she'll view it as I'm only showing interest because she's interested.

It's my opinion, if she's decided to stay with me and work things out, then we need to do things to that effect. I'm not moving anywhere if our relationship doesn't feel better.

WW had counseling last night, all she would tell me is they talked about her, me, the kids, and marriage. She seemed very thoughtful for awhile, and it wasn't until she got back from cleaning her horse's stall, that she was more communicative. She said things that indicated her decision to stay with me and work things out is in place.

I'm off work tomorrow to take WW and the girls to the Airport. We'll have 10 days apart to reflect on things. We'll see how things are when she gets back. WW said our next counseling session isn't until 28 July, mostly because she couldn't see a point in scheduling for 3 days after she gets back from California. So, after counseling in 3 weeks, I hope to have a better idea of where things stand. Especially since WW said she would tell OM of NC when she gets back.

I have things to do while they're gone to keep me busy, and I'm going to get out and do some things. Going to rent a carpet cleaner and clean the upstairs, going to fix that leaky hot water knob in the kitchen, and anything else I can see to do.

Believer,
For the most part, it’s very true. You’re correct, just great art. But look at the forum section...then look at the section suggesting meetings and parties and how to get together. And of course there's nothing draconian about this either, except if you’re a married person making connections that are inappropriate. And if that’s not what happened in this situation then tell me what did. Sorry if I implied that the site was pornographic or immoral in some way. Not my intention. I was simply making a point.
Coach

coach -

You are right. I am active in many things, and work with 22 men (the only woman). But I always remembered that I am married, and conducted myself accordingly.

This whole internet can be the best thing in the world, and at the same time, the worst.

Called the counselor today to schedule an appointment for next week. She said, she forgot to mention to WW to see if I wanted to schedule one since our next joint session won't be until 28 July.

I'd like to think the Counselor can give me some sort of indication where my marriage is. So, next Thursday at 4pm will be dreadful I think.

I don't think it will be dreadful at all. Your wife is still living with you. I don't think she is going anywhere.

Believer: I don't have a problem with her staying, as long as it's to work on our relationship. But I don't want her to stay if the nightmare continues.

She got home today and immediately got online. She called me over to her computer and made a big show out of letting me watch her delete OM from her friends list. I asked why? and she said because.

Well, to be honest, I don't see where it means all that much, because she's been chatting to all hours of the night with ANOTHER guy from Deviant Art. She even had his webcam up today. This internet thing has become some sort of obsession, addiction, I don't care what you call it, but I don't see how we're ever going to resolve anything with her spending all her free time on the freaking computer.

Sorry, I'm a little pissed off. I fixed dinner, and she couldn't get off the computer to eat at the table. Well, I stayed at the table, WW asked if I was going to come into the living room and eat with everyone else. I said, I'm almost done, it would be kinda pointless to get up and go in there for a few bites, just to go back to the kitchen.

I hope the counselor can tell me something useful about how to deal with this situation.

Got DD(3) to bed, and WW is still on the freaking computer. Wait, she did get off long enough to go to the barn to clean her horse stall. I promptly went to my room, and didn't say anything else to WW. GRRRRRR.

It is my opinion that until she is willing to have NC with OM (no surprise) and can PROMISE that she will not participate in cyber sex, recovery can't begin. Cyber sex is what got you into this mess. She may be willing to give up OM as she will probably get bored with him, but she will move on to another one. She has made that clear by saying she can't promise to never do it again. She CAN promise and keep it; she is making a choice to not promise.

Michele

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

RW,
You’re a computer guy; have you put spy ware on her machine? And when she brings out the web cam what does she do? In all fairness, photo conferencing isn’t cyber sex.

My concern would be that if she’s computing to avoid being with you then that’s al she’s guilty of.

RW, have you ever read the divorce buster 180 plan? It sounds to me that this plan is tailor made for your sitch. I think that your W is now in a place now, where you could successful using this system.

Coach

MicheleD and Lovemyhubby: One of the hardest things I've learned through out this process, is discussing our relationship all the time is a major LB. Therefore, the only time I am supposed to talk about such things is in counseling. I have my own individual counseling next Thursday, and I plan to bring all the recent stuff up with the counselor, so it won't be new to her at our next joint session on 28 July. But, I'm going to point out her obsession with the computer/cybersex is only harmful to our marriage. I am very angry the computer is more important than me or the family. So much so, since she got online as soon as she got home yesterday, I've not displayed any affection. No I love you's, no hugs, no kisses, no touches of any kind. I didn't even say good night to her last night.

Coach: I have spyware on the computer at the moment, just not turned on. And here's the reason why, I'm still at the point where I'm ready to Plan B, I'm waiting to see what's going to be said at our next joint counseling, which I was hoping would be the Wednesday after they get back, but WW felt it was stupid to do it then, and scheduled it for 2 weeks after she gets back. If she formally declares in joint counseling she's 100% committed to the marriage, then it will get turned back on, just to keep her honest.

We don't have a webcam, she was watching new guy's webcam and chatting with him at the same time. Thank god, I don't have a webcam...

I've read the 180 plan, and I believe my behaviour since last night falls within that plan. As a matter of fact, just before they got on the plane, I hugged and kissed my girls and told them I loved them, I made no advance to WW. She initiated a hug and a kiss, and then said Love ya, and I said love ya too. If she's really committed to this marriage, then she needs to start acting like it. Spending all her free time on the computer to avoid being with me is unacceptable.

Oh and get this, she felt the need to explain this new guy to me on the way to the airport. She said, you don't have to worry about him, his wife died 2 years ago in a car accident, and their relationship was one where they can't live without each other. She further explained if he walked by a window with a dress in it that he thought his wife might have liked, it would make him start crying.

What I'm concerned with at this point, is this, she used to complain about how much time I spent on the computer playing EverQuest. Well, when she made it clear she was unhappy about that, I compromised and didn't play on the computer whenever she was home, except on Sundays to play with my Dad and brother. Point of the matter is this, she's a hypocrit. What she's doing is the same thing, obsessed with the computer, and I know if I say something directly to her, then she's going to interpret it as me saying I'm better than she is and anything she ever does isn't good enough or is wrong. I've got to get the counselor to explain to her that what she's doing is harmful and is an obsession that she needs to curb.

Bottom line is this, I'm not displaying any affection anymore unless she initiates. And I'm not moving anywhere with her if she gets a job unless I feel comfortable about our relationship, and as things stand right now, well, you all know how I feel.

Something has to change, and it has to be soon, I refuse to live like this any longer. Hopefully, the next 10 days with her mother will make a difference. Hopefully, the counselor will have helpful things to tell me about all this.

Took a bale of hay to the barn yesterday for WW's horse. The barn manager was there. Ended up talking to him about things, and he said he asked WW last week how things were going with us. WW appearantly told him things were looking up, and things were better.

I wish I knew how. Counseling tomorrow, and hopefully some insight. I'll post the outcome.

I've talked to WW and girls every day so far, WW and DD(12) went white water rafting yesterday. Sounds like they had a lot of fun. WW said they're supposed to go camping today, so don't know when I'll talk to them again.

Things have been so peaceful at home with just me and the cats and dogs. I'm actually sleeping all night, which is a pleasant change. I miss my girls, sad to say, and my WW.

Are you cleaning out the stall too? Hope you are doing nice things for yourself while WW is gone.

Nope, not cleaning the stall, just taking out the occasional bale of hay, and making sure the water buckets are filled and clean.

Counseling went ok yesterday. Talked about WW's addiction to the computer, the email she sent me, and where all this stands. The counselor feels were still where we were at our last counseling.

To put it all in a nutshell, I'm just supposed to continue with Plan A. That means no talking about our relationship, or pushing for more quality time, or expecting anything from her. To be honest, I think I'm in a much better place mentally for a better Plan A.

This is what I'm going to do in anticipation of them coming home: house is going to be cleaned spotless, lawn mowed and edged, and going to have dinner ready.

For dinner, I'm going to BBQ some pork steaks in the crock pot. A nice salad to go with that, and I'm going to make a dessert Saturday night. It's going to be pudding in glasses. It'll be a 3 layer pudding, with a strawberry dipped into the top layer with chocolate shavings sprinkled on top. LOL, she'd never expect that!

They called last night, they're at Lake Tahoe. DD(3) is wearing the "bear bell" mostly it's nice because they know where she is! WW talked to me longer last night than she's talked to me any other night. Probably doesn't mean anything, but it was nice for me. They are all having a great time, and I'm enjoying the silence, hmmm, might have to break out my Depeche Mode CD and actually listen to Enjoy the Silence.

Went to my friends house after counseling, had a drink, and we talked for awhile. Couldn't stay out too late though, had to go home and let the dogs out before they left me presents.

All in all, I'm prepared to Plan A awhile longer. Counselor said we should talk about WW's computer usage at our next joint counseling, as she agrees, it's hypocrisy. Any relationship requires compromise, it's time WW starts making some compromises.

Sounds like you are doing well. I don't see your wife leaving anytime soon. I hope you will clean the house spotless (check with flylady.com for help).

Thanks Believer, I'll check that out! Probably won't post again until next Tuesday, as I try to avoid being online at home anymore. I don't even turn on the computer if I don't have to.

Well, if for some reason we do go our seperate ways, I can definitly see getting rid of the internet, shoot, I'd like to get rid of it now, but I'm sure WW would blow a gasket. I'm tired of being an enabler, but I'm to do my best to Plan A like there's no tomorrow, and try and do what our counselor suggests.

Seems to me, Plan A is something that never really ends. Anyway, I'll be back on Tuesday to let you all know how the homecoming goes, and to see whether or not or Monday Lunch Date actually happens.