I have been clearing my history before I log out of my computer at home. H is just randomly reading all the posts at the Discussion Forum. He seems almost frantic to find what I wrote.

I have about 5 months of cell phone bills documenting the 1000's of minutes they talked every month. I have a receipt from one of the hotels they used in September 03 (a few miles from our apt). I don't have any emails even though I'm sure there were some. I will take all that w/ me when I tell the OWH.

H told me that OW is afraid I'll hurt her or her children. I just laughed. That's absolutely rediculous!! I can't help but wish bad things for her, but I'm not willing to do anything or even have anything done. I'm just not that kind of person. I sorta subscribe to the "What goes around comes around" philosophy.

Thanks for listening and responding. I appreciate it more than you know.

H called me 5 or 6 times today at work just to check in and see how I was doing. He asked me several questions about making doctors appts for himself (H is on my health insurance.) He told me I sounded happy and asked why. He asked if I had done something. What he's asking is if I'd done something devious, i.e., contacted the OW or the OWH, changed the locks, etc. I told him, "No, I haven't done anything. Does it bother you that I seem happy?" He said of course not.

The more I think about all of this, the more I realize that in addition to our marriage problems, H has some major problems of his own. H has an extensive pornography video collection. H has spent a lot of time at strip clubs in the past few years, and now his confession about having a sexual encounter w/ strangers at an adult video store. (I'm suspecting this was only one of several.) For several years, H has asked me to go to "swingers" clubs w/ him. I always said no, and didn't give it another thought. I didn't think he was REALLY serious. I have to admit that I'm pretty liberal and open-minded, and I'm not as religious as many on this forum. Even so, H's behavior has definitely crossed into the realm of the bizarre. An affair is bad enough, but how do you deal w/ what seems like a sexual addiction?

15 yr old daughter is starting to act out. Some of it is just teenage angst, but some is definitely in response to the atmosphere at home. H & I don't fight, but D knows about the affair and that her dad is thinking about leaving. D is seeing an IC. Any suggestions?

I'd also like to hear from some of you regarding my last post.

Thanks.

Anybody out there? Are you all avoiding me until I tell the OWH? I've driven to OW's home twice in the last week (it's about an hour away), but OWH's vehicle wasn't there. I have the home phone #, but OW monitors the caller id like a hawk and always answers the phone herself. I don't know where OWH works. No, I haven't wimped out. Gimme time. OWH will be home eventually.

H's weekly IC session was this afternoon. He's always so edgy and difficult after his sessions. Great, I have that to look forward to when I get home.

H is still adamant that he and OW are now just "friends" and that their friendship just "went too far." H told me he doesn't want to hurt OW or me. H feels like he led OW on or she would never have had an A. (OW being a good Catholic girl and all.) H doesn't understand that because things "went too far", they can't even be friends now. I told him about NC, and he just laughed at me.

H, daughter, & I are going to D's competition in San Antonio over the Easter holidays. We've gone there for the past 6 years and we always enjoy it. I'm really looking forward to it. I think H is too.

I may have to consider Plan B after we get back. What are the criteria for switching from Plan A to Plan B?

Hi Lost,

What are your boundaries? Are you willing for him to be friends or, do you want to go back and forth on this? You will never, ever have closure if he remains "friends" with you. You need to tell the OW's H what is going on or was going on. Until you do that you will not have any recovery because they are still in contact with each other.

We're not avoiding you - there are so many people here who are hurting, that posts tend to get lost at the bottom of the page.

Part of working through this pain is doing things in your own time. You will do what you need to do, so don't worry about that.

Plan B starts after you have done a solid Plan A. It is to protect your love for your H. But do this in stages. Wait until you have exposed the affair, and see what happens then.

Hi, sorry for the whiny "Is anyone out there" post. I was feeling kinda needy. Thanks for responding.

Today was one of the days where I really just wanted to tell H to go ahead and leave if he thinks that's what he wants. I didn't. H doesn't really have the money to move out. Do I really want him here if money (or the lack thereof) is the only thing keeping him from leaving? I guess it does give me more time and opportunity to Plan A.

This morning was my IC session. I always feel out of sorts after my sessions, so I took the day off and had my hair colored and styled. I didn't tell H that I wasn't at work, so he got concerned when he called my office and was told I had taken the day off. He called me on my cellI don't know what he thinks I'm gonna do. I think he's still worried that I'm going to hurt myself. I'm not, and I've told him that.

I've done a lot of reading on these posts. It helps to realize my reactions and emotions are pretty normal. It really helps to read how similar the WHs are. They seem to say exactly the same things. Did they get a book?

Yeah, they all go by the same handbook. You are still too hurt to appreciate how absolutely hilarious it is. Stick with us and keep reading and posting. I promise you things will get better and you will feel good again.

Is there a way the OWH can find out about the A without YOU being the one that spilled the beans ?

I know this is not the best recommendation, but I sense your apprehension loud and clear, and fear it won't be done.

Put your little thinking cap on.... there HAS to be a way. Maybe finding another way for OWH to find out would be more optimal for you ?

I sit here and read this post and there are so many similiarities to my situation. The guilt trip he is laying on you, the mind games he is playing on you, and like you I think they must all have a book. It sort of seems like a sick game to them and is at the very least cruel!

I too consider leaving my H and have figured out if I can be financially able to care for my kids and I, but unfortunately I can't right now. I have decided to stay until I get a full-time job at least and see where things are at then.

Good luck with everything and stay strong.

I told my IC about telling the OWH. She said she understood the reasons why that is suggested; however, she doesn't think it will have the desired impact in my case. (Remember, she also sees my H.) My IC is at a Mens are from Mars/Women are from Venus counseling center. They're supposed to specialize in marriage/relationship issues. I AM REALLY SCARED TO DO THIS! I know I'm just being a big wimp!

H & I are going out of town over the Easter weekend to attend our daughter's competition. I guess I'll see how things are going when we get back. Our lease ends May 31. If H wants to leave, chances are that's when he'll do it.

My sister said she could set me up w/ someone. I told her I love my H, and I'll keep trying to heal our marriage until it's clear that it's over. I will admit that the thought of going out w/ someone and having a nice time without all this uncertainty and pain swirling around is VERY tempting. I guess I'm ready to love and be loved again. I want to be able to walk over to my husband, give him a kiss and say I Love You without worrying whether or not I'm invading his space or being pushy or needy. How do you spend 19+ years of your life w/ someone only to find you're afraid to touch them? How did we get here? How did I let this happen? I took for granted that he would always love me and be here for me. I haven't forgotten the things I did that hurt him. I've been pretty terrible for the past 7 years or so. IC is helping me deal w/ some of my anger mgmt problems. I really want to forgive H for his affairs. I hope he can forgive me too.

Easter weekend went okay, I guess.

I feel like WH is holding his decision to stay or leave over my head. I realize this indecisiveness is "normal" WS behavior, but it's driving me crazy!

I have found myself wondering why some of us (BS) basically fall apart and try anything to keep the WS from leaving after we find out about the A, while other BS immediately throw the WS out of the house. I wish I had fallen into the second category. Why didn't I just stand up and demand that he leave? I've talked to several friends about all this. Three of them made their WS leave immediately. All three WS begged to come home within 2 months. I'm 6 months past d-day, and WH hasn't left yet, but he won't commit to rebuilding our marriage either.

OOPS, Double entry.

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: LOST AND ALONE ]</small>

I threw my WH out on D-day and he is still with OW. Don't be concerned that everything depends on what you do or don't do.

To me your WH needs to get some counseling for sexual addiction. I hope IC is talking to him about that.

In the meantime, are you doing anything for yourself? I immediately started in on making changes, rearranging the house, cleaning, exercising, going out with friends, etc. It helps not to sit around and think about him all of the time.

WH is talking to IC about his "possible sexual addiction." That's all I know. WH is pretty tight-lipped about his sessions.

I know WH has some sort of problem. Even this past weekend while we were out of town together, WH pulled up to an adult bookstore and asked if we could pick up someone for a threesome. (In case you're wondering.....NO, I have never participated in any way in any of these deviant sex games/fantasies of his. I didn't even know he had until his confession earlier this month.) I wonder if he does this just to hurt/upset me. He knows I'm not interested in that stuff. We always had a great sex life. Even WH sais so. I don't know why he needs this "other" stuff.

I find myself thinking I should just give up. I've done all the changing and giving and forgiving. WH hasn't even told me he's sorry. The closest thing he's said is that he's ashamed of what he did, even though it was totally my fault. WH does still live w/ us, but I'm not sure how much longer that will be. He won't commit to staying and working on our marriage. The first 2 months or so after d-day, WH would get agitated anytime he thought I was semi-happy and he would tell me, "Don't fool yourself -- I AM LEAVING YOU!!!" Of course, I would fall apart and cry for hours. I knew I needed to stop crying, but I just couldn't. Now, when I ask him when he's going to leave, he just tells me he hasn't made any plans. I don't know what to think anymore. I really do try to NOT think about all of this as much as possible. I'm kinda tired of my whole life being about this affair business. I want a husband that I can trust and count on. I don't need a lot of money or gifts, I just need trust. I feel like I'm living w/ a stranger now. Even if he decides to stay and work on our marriage, will he ever be the guy I thought I was married to?

I'm at d-day + 6 months. WH will not go to NC w/ OW. Mostly, they talk on their cell phones. I can't make him understand that they will never be "just friends." I feel like I should ask WH to leave, even though that will break my heart all over again.

WH has no concept of how much this has hurt me. All he ever sais is that I hurt him for years (by being withdrawn and angry). I've acknowledged my issues and am working diligently on them w/ my IC. I've actually made a lot of progress. WH has even commented on the changes, but he thinks I'll go back to the way I was. I know different. Hopefully, he will too in time.

WH had admitted that he has had self-esteem issues for many years -- perhaps always. I guess the artsy types are very insecure, even if they're really talented. This OW is very good at "stroking his ego" and acting maternal. I heard one of her voicemails where she told him that she loved him just the way he was and would wait for him. She's a musician too and apparently has some self-esteem issues of her own. I had no idea he needed this constant reassurance and stroking. I've always been very independent (perhaps too much so) and very self-confident. I've always been very proud of my husband. He can do just about anything. I just assumed he knew that about himself too. WRONG!

After this affair business came out, I lost a few steps...okay, a lot of steps; however, I'm finding my feet again and feeling better about myself. I'm sure I'll stumble a little if WH decides to leave, but I absolutely refuse to crumble to pieces again.

Two nights ago, H came home and crawled right into bed. He refused to talk to me, but I could tell he was really upset. Well, as it turns out, he was crying because the OW was mad at him after he told her that he and I were still having sex. I think I may have committed a few LBs. I wanted to know why the H*LL he was talking to her, much less about our sex lives. It's absolutely none of her business! Well, it seems they have a "pact" to be absolutely honest w/ eachother and tell eachother everything.

Guys, I think I'm done. Nothing is changing. Sure, WH is still "living" w/ me, but he isn't letting go of OW. I think I'm the one that's going to do the letting go. Yes, I still love him, but quite frankly, this is abuse. I feel like it's time for Plan B.

Any suggestions????

WH keeps telling me that he's moving out at the end of the month, even though he doesn't know where he's going and doesn't have any money. Is it common for WSs to behave this way? I'm soooo tired of his "I'm still gonna leave, but I don't know when" crap. I just want to scream "Get out already!!!!!" This has all been quite a ride for me. I'm a Pee-or-Get-Off-the-Pot kinda gal, if you know what I mean. All this indecisiveness makes me very edgy. As more time goes by, I'm moving further away from my initial "The world is ending" reaction, and I'm beginning to realize that I will be okay no matter what happens. I haven't given up hope yet, but WH still seems so determined leave. My IC (who also sees WH)seems to think that WH may need to leave before he'll realize that he might lose me. I don't know that I believe that.

Okay, I'm coming up on d-day + 7 months. WH is still living w/ us but insists that he should probably move away even if it's just for a short while. He also insists that he and OW are "just friends" that took it too far. (Yeh, blah, blah, whatever.) He insists they are no longer in a PA, but he refuses to go to NC. I don't know what to do now. I feel like I should insist that he move out. He keeps saying he can't move out because he doesn't have enough money. Sorry, but I don't think that's MY problem. The way I see it, he can either (1) Re-commit to our marriage, go to NC, start MC w/ me, take the passcodes off his email & cellphone, etc., or (2) Go ahead and leave. I do love him very much, but how much of this fence-sitting am I supposed to take? My self-esteem plummeted after d-day, but I feel better as each day passes. It's just not acceptable to allow WH to continue to live w/ me while he's yearning for OW. He can't even begin to withdraw until there's NC. What do ya'll think? (Okay....yes, I'm from Texas.)

I've been in Plan A for 4+ months now. WH is still living w/ us, but he keeps telling me that he will probably leave eventually. Each time he sais this to me, I just want to scream "Leave already!!!! Let me help you pack." I don't know what to do now. I don't even know for sure that he and OW have really ended the affair. Should I go to Plan B and make him move out? He doesn't have enough money to move anywhere. What will my forcing him to leave accomplish?