I have been lurking here for about a month, which is about when I confirmed my W affair. For 8 months I have known she was in a relationship that would lead to it, but nothing I did could convince her where it was leading. I went out of town on business a couple of months ago and the relationship went to PA. I actually think it happened before that, but she says 'no'. I came home from my trip, and knew something happened, there was some physical evidence in the house. I confronted her she denied it. I tapped her email at that point, and not only found that it was occurring, but one night when she was heading out for a girls night out she took a prestop over at his house. The OM is a college friend of both of ours. He is on his second marriage already. His wife is also a college friend of both of ours. So that is a very short version of the long story. Once I had confirmed through the emails that the PA was occurring, I confronted her again. This time she did not deny it.

I told her that night that I was interested in saving our 12 year marriage, but only if that was her desire. I laid down 3 conditions, no contact with him, counselling, and no more lies. I read the emails between them, there was lots of talk of love between them, I was pretty sure she was going to walk. The next night she told me she talked to the OM and she told him it was over, and that there would be no more contact. And said she wanted to work it out. She agreed to do counselling, but didn't believe in it. So that was 2 weeks ago.

The OM and her hooked up 8 months ago on the same Volleyball team. They are still on the same team, so I had told her that one of them had to quit. Last week she sent out an email saying that he was hurt and would no longer play. Well, he didn't like that, so he showed up anyways. The go out to the bar afterwards, so when she got home she told me he was there, and that he didn't think it was fair that he had to quit. So I told her fine, then you quit. She asked that we talk about it later. On Monday I asked her again was he quiting or her. We talked, and she still didn't have an answer.

So that brings us to tonight. I know others on the team, so I heard he was playing. When I got home from work I assumed she knew he was playing, so I didn't say anything until she was getting ready to go. She said she had no idea that he was playing, that she stayed out of it. I said she was breaking our agreement, and she said, no she did not have any contact with him. No matter what I said she did not see how this was a problem. She said she would talk to him again tonight and tell him that one of them had to quit.

Well, I did not believe that she didn't know, and I really think this is exactly what she wanted to happen. She didn't get involved, yet he was going to be there. Another opportunity for her to talk to him. I lost it. I told her she was playing a dangerous game with our marriage and if she wanted to play that game she might as well not come home. I regret saying that, although I feel that I have draw a line. I have read plan A and Plan B, but obviously didn't listen very well. Does anyone have any input? If she is does come home how do I get her to be an active participant in our reconciliation?

Here is the saddest part. We have 4 young kids. Oldest is 7, youngest is 2.5. I know if it was not for them my wife would be gone. If she does still want to work on this, I know it is for them not for me. I really don't know if that is something I'm interested in.

I know this is long and rambling, but I'm definitely mixed up. Realizing that the person you have loved for 12 years has so little concern for your feelings and so little respect for what you have built together for 12 years.

Any input appreciated.

The reason is not important.

What does it matter why an addict gives up their addiction. It is only after they quit that they can begin to adress the things that got messed up while they were in the grips of the addiction.

Just get her out of the A, and then work on the other things. It happens step by step, and the first step is to stop the A.

I am so sorry you have to be here, I hope you get support and find the help you need. If it doesn't offend you, I will pray for you, and your family.

This is going to be the hardest thing you have evern done, and you will wonder more than once why you want to reconcile, but it is right to try.

Remember, you have choices too, and you can walk away if you want - whenever you want. Many people never try, never come here, but you will feel better knowing you did all you could.

Many read for weeks before they post, but if you have not read the basic concepts I suggest you spend a lot of time reading. I also suggest you get HN,HN and read it, and Surviving an Affair also from the bookstore here and read that. You need a plan to recover, and the books will help you do it right.

Sometimes Fridays and weekends are slow, don't get discouraged if you don't get lots of replies, just keep posting yourself and people will get to you eventually.

God be with you.

SS

I'm new here too, and like you, I lurked around for about a month reading everything before I got involved in the Discussion Forum. I've done A LOT of reading (MB stuff as well as others), listening to relationship tapes, individual counseling, etc. I think reading the posts in this forum may have helped the most. I realized other betrayed spouses feel exactly like I do. I'm not completely crazy for feeling lost, afraid, angry, desperate, disgusted, sad, indignant, frustrated, depressed, withdrawn, & needy all at the same time.

I'm too new to give advice. Just take care of yourself. Keep posting. The veteran members are pretty good at this stuff.

L&A

Im pretty new to this website... like 4 days now, I sympathize with you on your wifes affair, I recently found out much the same thing, swapping volleyball teammates for college classmates however,in any event let me explain what it is I did and maybe that will help a bit in your situation, when I first found out, I confronted her immidiately, youve gotten by this point so its not really relevent but it does go along the lines of everything after this happened needs to be blunt, upfront, brutally honest, and shameless, you have no reason to hide your feelings at this point and neither does she, in any event you where absolutely correct to ask her to stop all contact with this man, and the fact that she refused to is her not compromising to make the marriage work for you two, she needs to make that choice and not next week, she needs to make it when you two are face to face, if she doesnt, then you have the right to walk, as bad as it sounds why would you stay in a situation where your spouse just walks all over you and takes whats she needs while giving what you want to someone else because someone else happens to fulfill a completely differant need of hers? In any event that was my ultimatum for her, stop all contact with him or its over... She told me she couldnt do that because she would feel akward about it, so thats when you decide, do you walk, or do you work harder on this, I decided to work harder, I called the guy myself and made it very clear in a very civilized manor that this is going to stop, if it doesnt work, then you know your never going to get through to your spouse and you should just cut your losses where you can and move on.
This all may seem rude, obnoxious, or mean spirited but when it comes to your own feelings you need to remember that they are yours and noone elses, your being forced to feel the way you feel, you didnt ask for it, certain things youve done may have helped fan the fire thats going right now but in no way is it any more then 50% of your fault on this, you should never accept that your are beneath someone and grovel for there affection because you are not.

In a final note, its been roughly a week since my spouse has cheated on me, and after a few lengthy and heated fights, some civilized conversations and some agreements we are on our way to an understanding, trust is still hard to come by but oine step at a time.

Anthony

Hello,

I think it is absolutely essential that you expose the affair. It is critical that you tell the OM's wife about this. Your wife has been able to break the agreement with you because the affair has been kept secret and there has been no consequences to her actions. If the vollyball teams knows and the OM's wife knows then it would be highly unlikely there would be contact at all.
By keeping it quiet you actually are enabling her and the OM to continue in at least an EA and you are enabling them to have contact. The affair must be exposed in order to have it ended. I wish you luck.

I too am very new to all of this. My DDay was Mar 20th. I suggest IC for yourself and for her (she may not want to go together yet). Read the section on the website about finding a good counselor. I can assure you that there is a lot of bad advice being given out there. Keep the faith.

Thanks for all the replies. She did come home, although a few hours after the game. She was still upset at me for questioning her. So basically it was all my fault that we had fallen into the rut of mistrust. She said she had only planned on playing and then coming home, but since I blew up (just loud arguing and it was 2 sided), she decided to stay out. Basically said she didn't want to talk about it last night. I forced her and asked questions. She says she still wants to reconcile. I again asked what about VB, she said he wants to finish this season 5 more weeks, then he won't sign up. I said that was not good enough, so she said she will quit. But in no way was she happy about quitting. I asked her if that seemed unreasonable, she said 'no', but in a way that I know she is not happy about it.

I laid in bed last night prying this stuff out of her. She was as cold as a clam. I know although the A might stop the feelings are there, and that eats me up inside. At this point I look a head and I see a huge amount of work to make it a success, but in my heart feel no matter how I try I will not win back her love.

I have been reading the posts here, and I am amazed at how many are in the same boat as me. I have been reading mostly from the site over the past month, and not the posts, so I will attempt to read through those.

Still Seeking - Please pray for me, her and our family, I do.

A.C. - I feel for you too. I have many times picked up the phone to call the guy, but only feel that will draw them closer together. I've seen the email where they confess their love for each other, so I fear giving them anymore reason to console each other.

BryanP - I know his wife well, and she does not deserve this either. I would like to tell her, but I think I would be doing that for revenge rather then any health reason. I also fear with the A exposed, it would be easier for her to leave. What a sad reason. Beyond that I don't think it is my place to tell her.

InGreatPain - I hear you. I started IC the day after I confronted her and she confirmed the PA. I had screened Counselors the week before, but don't think I picked a good one. As for finding a good MC, they all say they do it and are trained, but I really didn't get a great feel for them. I will keep looking, but almost feel like I should just pick one of them and hope something is better than nothing.

Well, on Sunday we leave for a family vacation. It was supposed to be a happy time for us, we were both looking forward to it and had planned on spending time doing stuff as a couple as well as a family. I can't even see the fun in it after yesterday. It is like we are pretending.

A few questions follow?

Does anyone recommend MC through the church versus the yellow pages?

I have not told anyone, family or friends, what is going on. Three reasons I have not done that, first I think she would get upset if she knew I talked about it with someone else, and that it would derail reconciliation. Secondly, I think whoever I told would hold a prejudice against her even if we reconciled. Third, I have no idea who I would confide in. My family would not understand. As for friends, one person I would go to is best friends with the OM. Others would be totaly biased. I really feel keeping it between us and a MC might be the best, but want others opinions?

Last question. Do I expose the A to the light of day. I know this would be humiliating for her. I also think it would change her thought of reconciling. Part of me believes she is reconciling so that the A will not be exposed to family, friends and the OM wife. To me that is not the reason to reconcile.

So lost and alone, I do feel all of the emotions you mentioned.

Hello again,

I am afraid that I respectively disagree with your reasoning about not telling the OM's wife.
First, if the roles were reversed wouldn't you appreciate it that the other betrayed spouse would inform you that your spouse has been cheating on you? Would you wish to remain in ignorance of this? You are not the one inflecting pain on anyone. You are presenting the truth that every spouse should have a right to know.

Marriage builders believes that it is absolutely essential to expose the affair to the other betrayed spouse and also to others. By exposing it to the light of day the chances are much greater that the fantasy of the affair will be destroyed.
Your attitude of covering it up and especially of not telling the other betrayed spouse runs counter to the principles of marriagebuilders. You are enabling the affair to continue on some level.

I would suggest that you do more reading on this subject. What you are doing is counterproductive.
Again if the roles were reverse would you wish that the other betrayed spouse not inform you? I doubt it. Anyway I wish you luck and please again read up on the necessity of exposing the affair to the other betrayed spouse.

LWNBTS,

First, don't worry if your W would be mad. She will be. She will blame all sorts of things on you. But, she cannot get around the fact that she has lied to you, she has become an adulteress, and she has broken many of her vows to you, and yes she has hurt her children by harming the marriage.

So the OM's W needs to know.

Next, people do recover. IF you want to read an interesting WS thread read all of FinallyLearning's posts. There are many WS posting here and they can help. Go read MrsX's posts. You can find them by doing a search for their names, or their member ID #, or for recent posts clicking on the sunglasses at the top of one of their posts. It will give you a new page and a place to click for recent posts.

This can be done, but it is a long time. She needs to come out of the "fog", and then she will go through withdrawal. While that is going on, you need to assess what was happening to your marriage. Your W obviously thought this was a good idea, why? What was your role in the status of the marriage BEFORE the affair? You have no responsibility for her choice to have an affair, but you do for her feelings about the marriage before the affair.

So do more reading, give this time and have a lot of patience. It seems she wants to come out of this, but it will take time and you are right NO CONTACT. One of the benefits of telling OM's W is that she will probably help enforce NC from her side.

Hang in there and read, give this plenty of time and a huge dose of patience.

God Bless,

JL

I, too, have been told to expose the A to the OW's husband. I should probably even expose it to the group they're both in. I haven't done either yet. I have decided to tell the OWH as soon as he's back in town. I have the same misgivings about telling them as you have. I'm afraid H will leave as soon as I do it. I'm also afraid this will only push them closer together, and create an "us against the world" sort of thing. However, I realize that as long as the A exists in their secret world, it will NEVER go away. I'm usually an "in your face, tell it like it is, back away from nothing" kinda gal, but this has me scared to death. I think we just need to take a deep breath, grit our teeth, and tell ourselves we have to expose the A to the OP's spouses. Left to their own devices, our spouses and their lovers are not likely to ever completely end the A.

L&A

BryanP,

I would definitely want to know. And I actually think by not telling her or anyone else I'm coping out. I fear by showing it to the light of day, that it will be one more reason for her to leave me, and one less reason for her to stay.

I also believe that by not telling I look better in her eyes. It is very sad that I'm worried about that.

I agree that I have not read enough. I thought I had, but qoutes I find in other posts and the information you are providing tell me I have not. I'm going to try and read more tonight. I would really like to expose the A, in hopes to end it and to allow me to get some support from friends and family. I just know that her reaction would be that I just wanted to publicly humiliate her.

As a side note the IC that I'm seeing strongly advised against letting anyone know about the A. She said it is a private issue between the 3 of us. She said it is up to the OM to inform his wife. And said that family will draw together on both sides, and make reconciliation very difficult.

Again any input appreciated.

Life,

The affair is between 4 people, not 3 people. You don't have to take out a full page add in the paper. Just inform OM's W. As for needing a reason to leave or another reason, you are making a very fatal mistake. This whole thing is not about "reason" or "logic" as normally defined. That is why the term "fog" is used around here. It is not that her feelings for OM are not real, but the that the decision making is completely messed up. Right now there was NOTHING good about your marriage or you. Right now, there was only bad things and pain for her. Right now the OM is perfect, nevermind that he is a lying cheat and will likely do the same to her.

That is why telling is STRONGLY recommend by Dr. Harley. It is not done for revenge, but to bring things to light. Telling OM's W is the right thing to do morally and for your marriage. Telling others is a question to taste. Clearly telling everyone will embarrass here alot and make it hard for to face people so that needs to be considered, but it the A continues and contact continues, then people need to know.

BUT, one of the things Harley states is that they should be told by way of soliciting help. If for example you were to tell her parents, you should explain that you love their daughter, want her back with you and you want to forgive her. You hope that they can help by talking with her.

Do you see what I am saying. So I strongly urge you to tell OM's W unless NO CONTACT is for real and the A is over. Even then she should know, but it brings up a different set of issues. Right now you are trying to end the A.

Please read about this in the Plan A section. Also read about withdrawal in the articles here. It is real, it is bad, and it is in someways tougher than what you are going through right now. But you both must get through it.

I will tell you this stuff is not for wimps. It is very tough to do. But, if instincts and good intentions worked, there would not be affairs would there?

So become proactive. She will be very mad at you. She may even leave for awhile, but she will see things better with time.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Life,

I responded to some of the things you said on "In Great Pain's" thread. Good luck and blessings to you.

StarFish, thanks for the reply on both posts. I've stayed late at work today to let some of my emotion pass. I have a couple of questions:

1> How important is it to tell the OMW about the affair. I ask because we are about to leave on vacation, do I need to talk to her before we go, or can it wait a week till we return?

2> If I've made the decision to tell her, do I tell my W that I am planning on telling her. Do I tell the OM to give him a chance to expose it. I sure know I would have rather had my wife come to me and tell me, rather than having to stoop to the spying I did.

3> I know this women quite well. I know from my wife that she has had the same suspicions, do I tell her on the phone, in person, or email.

Thanks again.

Life,

1> How important is it to tell the OMW about the affair. I ask because we are about to leave on vacation, do I need to talk to her before we go, or can it wait a week till we return?

It is the MOST important exposure you will probably do. It should not wait another second longer than you can manage. It has the best chance of ending the affair of any exposure....because it guarantees the the affair will be under pressure from both ends.

2> If I've made the decision to tell her, do I tell my W that I am planning on telling her. Do I tell the OM to give him a chance to expose it. I sure know I would have rather had my wife come to me and tell me, rather than having to stoop to the spying I did.

You do NOT inform ANYONE of your intent. You will probably NOT be surprised when I tell you that the affair partners will make up lie after lie to keep this a secret or keep the whole truth from his wife. Do not give them the opportunity to do this.

3> I know this women quite well. I know from my wife that she has had the same suspicions, do I tell her on the phone, in person, or email.

On the phone is okay...in person is better...but any of these options is fine. The message is as important as the exposure. Make sure that you let her know, that you know this information is a burden and that you are upset that you have to tell her this. But please also add...that on the advice of good marriage counseling...that you know that exposing affairs is what ends them...and so you have no choice since you are trying your hardest to save your marriage. Tell her that you also are hoping that she will join you in doing the same...saving her own marriage and tell her about this site. Do give her proof...but NOT details. She will decide what details she needs and get those from her own husband. But it's important that she knows the basic facts....and the level of intimacy if there has been sex. She deserves the right to decide what she wants....and to protect her own health (who knows if this if your wife is his only conquest).

Blessings to you....and I hope this works out for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LifeWillNeverBeTheSame:
<strong> BryanP,

As a side note the IC that I'm seeing strongly advised against letting anyone know about the A. She said it is a private issue between the 3 of us. She said it is up to the OM to inform his wife. And said that family will draw together on both sides, and make reconciliation very difficult.

Again any input appreciated. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is some input. I suggest you get a new IC. First of all, to say that the A is not an issue for the other BS is just plain foolish. Second, the quicker the A ends the quicker you can start to rebuild your M, and one of the quickest ways to end an A if for both BS's to know.
Michael

sorry double post

<small>[ March 30, 2004, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: MichaelinDallas ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As a side note the IC that I'm seeing strongly advised against letting anyone know about the A. She said it is a private issue between the 3 of us. She said it is up to the OM to inform his wife. And said that family will draw together on both sides, and make reconciliation very difficult.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Individual counselors are trained to help individuals and not marriages. Keeping silent is a good idea when a WS is truly willing to end an affair and take extra-ordinary precautions to avoid the lover. If they won't....not exposing: enables the affair by keeping it secret and protecting the WS and the OM from the real consequences of the affair. It makes you a willing partner to the affair....because you are in a sense "helping" them to continue the fantasy.

Get a real Marriage Coach who will help you do what is necessary to END the affair. A real Plan A involves confrontation (talking about your feelings of pain) and exposure (blowing the lid off of the affair). It includes these things because that is the fastest way of ENDING the affair. The longer it goes on....the more entrenched it becomes and the less likely you can save your marriage. Real recovery of an affair involves taking extra-ordinary precautions to avoid a lover. Why are you okay with her playing on this team?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> You can't force her to stop....but suffering in silence while she walks on your heart won't get you anywhere either.

(((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))

Do yourself the favor of your life. Check out this web site www.saveyourmarriagecentral.come and schedule an appt with Penny. I really like Jennifer Chalmers too (Harley's daughter) and you can get her number on the main site.

Good Luck!

LBNBTS, Hey, it's me again. I believe my wife is getting horrible counsel right now as well. The woman she sees says that all her life she's been putting other people's feelings first. My WW has mentioned that she needs to do what makes her happy now because life is too short. How destructive is this!! What I don't know is how do you get your WW out of a bad counseling situation?? It took her forever to agree in the first place. BTW, this is an IC, not a MC.

Well, I'm still at a loss. Before I got star*fish's advice, I told my W that I was going to tell the OMW. She told me she was very disappointed in that decision because she had ended the affair. We talked and I agreed that if it was truely over I would not tell.

We then went on vacation, and we both had a great time with our kids. Went skiing and were just amazed at how they all took to it. We love doing it, but hadn't been out for about 5 years, and were so happy they picked up on it. We had them in class all day, so that we could ski together. I have to say we didn't talk. I didn't know what to say and either she felt the same or chose not to speak. Our only conversation was about the kids, and how much fun it was to see them ski. We also talked about going skiing next year, because they were having so much fun. Yet I really felt she didn't want to talk, or get any closer to me.

For an odd reason it got better when we got back. Or so I thought. I found that she has been emailing him. Trying to resolve the issue of who would play volleyball, but beyond that she mentioned how she missed him and their conversations. She also said how much fun she had with the kids skiing, and how she did not want to compete with me (if we did seperate) on family vacations. What confuses me, is she knows I can read her emails, and that makes me wonder if she wants me to push the issue with his wife. I really think she does, because I think they talked and both agreed that if it came to light they would both leave us. The thought of that scares me. They both are the type to say screw everybody, were right and everybody else is wrong.

Why does that scare me? First I do love her, and I know if given the chance we could be happy again. Secondly I have four wonderful kids. I can't imagine what life would be like not being there for them everyday.

I also question if we can be successful. I don't know how to trust her anymore. I'm trying to hide my insecurity, but I question (in my mind) her every move. From her running out to the local store for something she forgot, to starting to wake up early for a run. I sure hope this comes in time, because I can't go through life like this.

Thanks for everyone's advice. I'm tried the local Borders for the books, but they didn't have them in stock. I did order them on-line, but they haven't arrived yet.

So my plan is to:
- Contact the OMW tomorrow and let her know (easier said then done).
- Dump my IC
- Attempt to find a good MC in the area so that we can get some help. I know she won't go for a phone session. I even question the effort she will put in to a face to face session. She says one thing, but her actions don't support her words (terrible attitude to have).
- Once the books arrive read them and hope they help us.