This is my fist time posting...been lurking for a while. I am a WS...and BS (my wife) and I are in process of setting up our first MC session.

Just a quick synopsis:

My W recently found out a few weeks ago that I had an EMA that had ended months ago. Since then, we have decided to go to MC to work on our issues. W and I have not been intimate physically/emotionally in over 2 years (not my choice - but hers). At first, I tried to be patient with her, but she never wanted to discuss it or deal with it. Our ability to communicate our feelings and be able to be honest and open about that and almost everything else has eroded over the past few years, to the point that we no longer try. We are simply parents to our children - something that we both love being and actually do a great job at together. It is simply that beyond that, she and I have become strangers...barely roomates. Obviously, over time, this made for a very unhappy marriage (atleast for me) and with no reason to believe things would ever change, I decided this past summer (2003) to look outside of my marriage for the needs I was not receiving at home.

In my defense as the WS, I had/have been asking my W for years to go to MC initially because we had difficulty in communicating, but because I wanted us to have a better relationship ( i have been in therapy on my own for about a year). She does not like to talk - and has even admitted to being unable to clearly articulate her feelings very well...and this is something that I found over time to be very frusturating. I felt MC might help us communicate better. But I also wanted to do MC because her behavior and moodiness became an issue in our relationship - the point of me never knowing what might set her off into a bad mood. It made everything with her almost impossible. She refused MC each and every time I asked...and this was years before I decided to have an EMA. She always had a reason why she could/would not do marriage counseling. It is only recently (at my insistance) that she finally began seeing a therapist.

So....W and I finally sat down and "discussed" the affair last night after the kids went to bed. She insisted on having the TV set on so that our kids would not overhear anything, and she had a list of "questions" that she read from. I don't even think she had put any thought into the questions...they sounded like stock/form/sample questions one might get from a book or web page. In this case, it was probably her therapist.The questions were along the lines of "did i practice safe sex?" "why did i think i could have/the right to an affair?" "do i feel guilty?" "was love/future ever discussed?" etc...

She seemed to not be listening to my answers but waiting for an opening to start venting her anger (which I understand and fuly expected - but there is a point where the constant recriminations start to sound hollow and self serving). I admitted several times that I was wrong for cheating...and that I was sorry that I had hurt her - which was not my intent. I accepted full responsibility for my actions. At the same time, I also wanted her to understand that even though she did not force me to do it, she did play a role why I did cheat. And she needed to know why. But she refused to even allow me to explain that at all. She would not even concede that she had anything to do with it (which is definetely did). She kept repeating the about how I had hurt her. She became very hostile and angry when I tried to explain something...and eventually we just began arguing. I told her that there was no point in continuing with the questions if she was not going to allow me to explain. Bottom line is that she continues to make excuses and allowences for her behavior (not wanting MC, not wanting or discussing reasons for us not being intimate)

So...at this point, it almost seems futile to think MC will resolve anything. But I am committed and willing to go forward with it. for me, I have a strong want/need for her to hear and listen to me... and to understand why I have been unhappy, so that maybe we can resolve the longstanding issues we have had. And because she and I have been unable to communicate and work our issues out on our own, it will take a third party profession MC to help us.

At any rate, thanks for allowing me to share.

Frontside_Rock

First of all - bless you for telling your W about the EMA, but how did she find out? Would you have told her about it anyway? She IS hurt -I know because I am in that situation now, but my H won't tell me anything.

While it does take two to make a marriage work you are still wrong for the EMA. If you do not accept that then you will never get past the issue with your wife. My H and I had problems but he never shared with me so here we are. I commend you for being truthful about things and for wanting to see an MC and I sincerely hope that your wife comes around. I'm sorry for you both that it came to this point, but if you both truly want to work it out you can. Show your wife this website - she will find many productive ways of dealing with her hurt and anger and will get lots of support.

hi,

I am a BS and I can understand your W anger and hurt, But I can also understand you feeling that she played a part in that. I too was told that I played a big part in my H's A. I would shut him out when it came to everything, the kids, the house, family, and even alone time. I would always have something to do and never anytime for him. I did this constantly. I realize this now but still have trouble admitting it to him.

I love him and He wants to come back - do you love your wife? Will it ever happen again? What if she let you down again?

Think about it?

FR:

I say this as someone who was sorely tempted to have an affair for years because my marriage was so bad.

I disagree that she had anything to do with you having an affair. As you say, that was your choice. She had LOTS to do with your lousy marriage. Lousy marriages do not cause affairs. Lousy choices cause affairs.

Fortunately for you, Harley's methods are designed to fix your marriage during the course of recovery. Click on the link in my signature line for more info on how to do that. It is really written with the BS as the intended audience, but almost all of it will apply to you.

FR,
I can relate to how your W reacted to your "talk."

You said... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She would not even concede that she had anything to do with it (which is definetely did). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As others have pointed out your W did not cause the A you did. Yes your M wasn't great but you and only you made the choice ie rationalization that an A was the appropriate response to the bad marriage.

You said... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She insisted on having the TV set on so that our kids would not overhear anything, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can understand that she didn't want to have the kids hear. Seems reasonable to me. Whatever you do do not bring them into the conflict. How old are they?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The questions were along the lines of "did i practice safe sex?" "why did i think i could have/the right to an affair?" "do i feel guilty?" "was love/future ever discussed?" etc...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What questions did you expect? Safe sex is an all important one. Most WS don't practice it. They assume because I know this person their clean. My W did that and put my life at risk!! That was one of the things that made me the most angry. Your W doesn't want to die because of your selfish stupid behavior!

Guilt is always a topic of BS's. They also want to know if love/future was discussed. Why? They want to know if the FWS is just settling for them because the A was discovered. They don't want to waste their lives in a loveless marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She seemed to not be listening to my answers but waiting for an opening to start venting her anger</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep in mind that your W just found out about the A. It is very early in the process. If you want your M to recover then you need to be a FWS that doesn't give your BS the "get over it now" attitude. That attitude will only increase the hurt and therefore the anger.

Also anger is one of the stages of dealing with loss. Yes loss. Your W has lost her trust in you. She ahs lost her old M. It's dead. Hopefully eventually a new better M will develope.

Anger is usually a manifestation of fear. Your W is scared ****less. She's wodering if you love her or if you ever loved her. If you're going to stay with her or divorce her.

Frontside_Rock...I'm honestly not trying to beat up on you. I'm just trying to point out how your wife feels. If you want to save your M you need to be patient for as long as it takes. Hopefully she'll heal. Some do others don't.

cwmac

I know EXACTLY where your W got those questions, I'll go into my bedroom right now and find the same ones. It's all I could come with on the internet until I found THIS site. THANK GOD.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, but others have already voiced my opinion anyway. I'm a little upset that you actually want to look for reasons you had an A.

Having an A is the worst trauma you can lay on a spouse.

Geez...I'm sorry I sound so angry, but from being on this end of the spectrum, I can tell you...your wife is in AGONY right now.

You're asking someone to react SANELY to an insane situation.

Give her THIS web address. She'll find help here, and we may be able to help her address some of what she is feeling. Right now she is hurt, confused, betrayed, angry, sad, devastated, furious, depressed, feels like she wants to vomit every minute of the day, and can't stop the tears that involuntarily fall. Give her some time, and PATIENCE.

If you really want to save your marriage, the first thing to do is stop trying to justify the A in your own mind. You're deluding yourself and will not SAVE your marriage.

Women are so much more forgiving, give her time....and love...and remorse.

Again I'm sorry. Believe me, your wife KNOWS what she has done to contribute to the breakdown of your marriage. I hope you both want to work this out and restore your marriage. Being a great parent, means at some point, you started off as great partners.

Yep, been there, went to MC last night angry thinking...how is this going to help?...just give it a try.

Have you stopped all contact with OW?

Sounds like you have a need for conversation. You can come here, or find a male friend.

You both want to blame the other for the troubles in your M. Begin a conversation with admitting the wrongs you have done...the ways you have NOT fulfilled her needs over the years.

Yep, are we hard on you? You bet, because you are here, and youi can change. Have you led your W to this site? Give her the opportunity for folks to give her a hard time too...

Thanks for all the replies...and I don't feel beat up on from the replies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I pretty much expected to get what was posted. I am worthy of any and all of your emotions, be it sympathy,ire,hatred, etc., so feel free to throw your love and/or hate at me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . Emotionally speaking, the feelings alternate between anger and simply feeling dead inside - don't feel guilty or remorseful...just angry. The only concern I have right now is for my children (ages 4 and 16 mo.).

Angry, because I had wanted and suggested marriage counseling to my W as far back as 1997 and up until recently, she ignored my concerns about our marriage. This is well before the thought to cheat on her. She always seemed to have an excuse as to why we could not have marriage counseling. On my own, I did go for counseling in 97' because I was unhappy. The therapist i was seeing did ask me to ask her if she would join us. The answer she gave me was "no". And as time went on, our relationship suffered. Over the years, my frusturation turned to anger, and anger into acting out on my frusturations. And I a still angry. So, I am not in a place at the moment to feel remorseful about my actions. I do feel bad for hurting her - but not for doing what I did. Maybe that sense of shame/remorse will come with some MC, pehaps not. Intellectually, I understand what I did was wrong. But I think I am far too angry to feel remorseful.

To follow up on a few items that were asked:

1) I did not tell my W - she found out because OW's H decided to tell her AFTER he said he wouldn't. He and I had had a phone discussion. He said he only wanted to talk to me, so I complied. He assured me that he would not initate contact with me and my family if I did not try to contact OW (a request I honored). A month after that conversation, he started calling my house....hanging up when I answered. Finally, he was able to get my W on the phone and told her. Not the way I wanted her to find out, but at the same time, it was a relief to be able to have it out there in the open.

I don't know what other peoples reactions have been to finding out their spouse was unfaithful - but the OW's H literally had a breakdown. When he got done freaking out, he began stalking me by phone, leaving numerous and bizarre text messages and somewhat threating voice mails on my vmail. I did feel his pain and hurt - and I knew I was responsible for playing a part in it. But at the same time, he seemed to be more interested in hounding me and blaming me specifically than actually trying to fix his marriage.

2) No, I have had no contact with OW since it ended. Closure happened by force, so there is no need for any further contact. Plus, I have no desire to disrupt her life further - she already has enough problems....(see above)

In terms of my situation, we are scheduled for MC next week. As weird as this may sound, I am looking forward to it. All I have ever wanted was a means of being heard and understood by my W, and to be able to understand and hear her. We were never able to do it ourselves, so maybe this will be a step in the right direction.

Thanks again....

Frontside_Rock

Thanks for all the replies...and I don't feel beat up on from the replies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I pretty much expected to get what was posted. I am worthy of any and all of your emotions, be it sympathy,ire,hatred, etc., so feel free to throw your love and/or hate at me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . Emotionally speaking, the feelings alternate between anger and simply feeling dead inside - don't feel guilty or remorseful...just angry. The only concern I have right now is for my children (ages 4 and 16 mo.).

Angry, because I had wanted and suggested marriage counseling to my W as far back as 1997 and up until recently, she ignored my concerns about our marriage. This is well before the thought to cheat on her. She always seemed to have an excuse as to why we could not have marriage counseling. On my own, I did go for counseling in 97' because I was unhappy. The therapist i was seeing did ask me to ask her if she would join us. The answer she gave me was "no". And as time went on, our relationship suffered. Over the years, my frusturation turned to anger, and anger into acting out on my frusturations. And I a still angry. So, I am not in a place at the moment to feel remorseful about my actions. I do feel bad for hurting her - but not for doing what I did. Maybe that sense of shame/remorse will come with some MC, pehaps not. Intellectually, I understand what I did was wrong. But I think I am far too angry to feel remorseful.

To follow up on a few items that were asked:

1) I did not tell my W - she found out because OW's H decided to tell her AFTER he said he wouldn't. He and I had had a phone discussion. He said he only wanted to talk to me, so I complied. He assured me that he would not initate contact with me and my family if I did not try to contact OW (a request I honored). A month after that conversation, he started calling my house....hanging up when I answered. Finally, he was able to get my W on the phone and told her. Not the way I wanted her to find out, but at the same time, it was a relief to be able to have it out there in the open.

I don't know what other peoples reactions have been to finding out their spouse was unfaithful - but the OW's H literally had a breakdown. When he got done freaking out, he began stalking me by phone, leaving numerous and bizarre text messages and somewhat threating voice mails on my vmail. I did feel his pain and hurt - and I knew I was responsible for playing a part in it. But at the same time, he seemed to be more interested in hounding me and blaming me specifically than actually trying to fix his marriage.

2) No, I have had no contact with OW since it ended. Closure happened by force, so there is no need for any further contact. Plus, I have no desire to disrupt her life further - she already has enough problems....(see above)

In terms of my situation, we are scheduled for MC next week. As weird as this may sound, I am looking forward to it. All I have ever wanted was a means of being heard and understood by my W, and to be able to understand and hear her. We were never able to do it ourselves, so maybe this will be a step in the right direction.

Thanks again....

Frontside_Rock

Hi - have you told your wife about this site? it definetely will help her vent some of her feelings, read from the other bs spouses and know she is not alone. I have found it very therapeutic.

Definetely purchase the books - HNHN - Surviving an Affair - Torn Asunder is good too - also we just bought a book on Forgiveness -How Can I Forgive You? by Janis Abrahms Spring, very good,

Your wife probably is in shock, and I think you have to let her ask her questions, try and answer them the best you can, try not to defend yourself just yet, just answer everything, right now she is hurt and really doesn't want to hear she her actions were partially to blame Honestly she will probably ask the same questions over and over again for awhile because probably alot of it is not registering.

I too am a ws - I too had needs that were not met and were neglected but now that the fog has lifted I had a choice, I should have told my husband how unhappy I was and leave rather than hurt him the way I did, it was very selfish and no one deserves that.

Stick with the MC - it worked wonders for me and my husband - helped open up conversations we really couldn't have - she brought up things that we never would have thought to discuss - best of luck - Sandy

Thanks Sandy... for the book suggestions. I will look into the titles suggested.

My W must know about the MB site, she gave me an article on MC - that is how *I* found out about the site and this forum. I am not sure if she has lurked/posted here on the forum. I have not suggested anything to her yet...I am not sure anything I could/would suggest would even be well received. Perhaps when we begin the MC sessions, it will lend itself to that.

Thanks again,

Frontside_Rock

Rock,

I think you need to read your posts.
I had a difficult time understanding your rationalizations of JOINT fault in your EMA.

You stated your marriage had been in trouble since 97' and you sought out counseling and your wife declined to go....

YET you saw fit to have 2 children (ages 4 and 16 months) in the middle of your dysfuntional marriage.

Most plan and have children when we feel our marriages are strong. I know there is a possiblity that the children were accidents BUT that means you had to be having sex (in what you said was a sexless marriage)..

I basically think the marriage counseling will be good...BUT YOU need to stop and take responsiblity for YOUR affair.. even the way you described the BH of your OW (that he needs to worry about his marriage)..He was shattered and very sane people do crazy things when their world have been destroyed...kinda like the DENTIST who saw her H with OW she ran him over
with HIS daughter in the car...

And before you think I am just another BW so I need to take this stance...think again..
I am not a BW.
You need to take a very long look in the mirror take full responsiblity for YOUR actions...and help your wife through this devisation..