I have all the signs that my wife has had an affair or a one night (drunken) stand, the problem is that I can't prove it and I know she will never admit it. If I knew for sure that she did have sex with another man it would at least let me have the opportunity to make decisions on our/my future. It doesn't seem I will ever get the truth from my wife so I'm forced to make decisions on gut feelings and whatever evidence I have. This is a difficult thing to do.

Whenever the topic is mentioned my wife will say it's in the past and why do I have to bring this up all the time (5 months ago). I tell her that it may be resolved in her head but it's not in mine. I even tried having her fill out a MB questionnaire, she got defensive and started crying. I said we can both fill them out so we can help understand things better and work on improving our marriage, she didn't and won't unless I insist which I will not do as it will not help if its done in anger. My wife has a very hard time communicating effectively with me (or anyone) regardless of how civil it is when the conversation is about money/relationships/people....

During the time period in question my wife was hanging out with a new girlfriend, I feel this girlfriend holds many of the answers to my questions mainly because my wife used this person for many of her excuses when confronted with things. I have written down three questions that I would like my wife to mention them in a phone conversation with this girlfriend...while I listen on the other end. I feel this would remove my suspicions and set me free one way or another. I would not have a problem If my wife asked me to do the same thing as I know I have nothing to hide and would do it to satisfy her.

How or should I approach this?

Thanks for any advice

Hi!

Tell me why you think she had a one nighter?

If you found out that she did have a ONS, what will you do?

Ali

Ali,

Why I think my wife has had a ONS or a (few hour one)...
1. Coming home at 3 in the morning, drunk (wasted) from bars (4 weekends in a row)
2. When my wife is drunk she lets loose and has low self control
3. She admitted to kissing a man at a bar when questioned previously.
4. Found internet searches on her computer for: Drunken affair, date rape drug side effects, alcohol rape, HIV testing, HIV from kissing, pregnancy symptoms, unwanted sex alcohol, affair, letter of indiscretion, letter of apology.....(all these searches were for a friend she told me). I'm fixed by the way!
5. She purchased a pregnancy test, lied as to what she purchased and when I found out she said it was for a friend.
6. When asked to go out to the same bar with me (testing the place), prior to leaving for the bar my wife explained that some man was trying to contact her that she met at the bar via her place of work. She does not know his name when asked. When at bar she approaches a man when he enters and hugs him and talks for a few seconds, she said he was a good customer from work (she works retail), didn't introduce me....she has since forgotten about that she did this!

What I would do if I find out is different from what I would do if told about it from her. If I find out on my own I will leave her, If she tells me about what happened in detail I will work on our marriage even harder than I do now.

GutRot

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gut_Rot:
<strong> What I would do if I find out is different from what I would do if told about it from her. If I find out on my own I will leave her, If she tells me about what happened in detail I will work on our marriage even harder than I do now.

GutRot </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why??? What difference does it make. If she did indeed do something she is now regretting (which is obvious) and she is too ashamed to admit it, why would you decide that saving your marriage is something you will only try to do if she confesses?? That's like the teacher making all the students stay after school when one won't confess to throwing the spitball....

You are threatening her...I know it, you know it. You've told her time and time again that you won't stay married if she doesn't confess and you find out...you're trying to get her to confess. That's ONE tactic that you can use, but unless you are going to stick with it, then don't threaten it anymore. Give her a comfortable loving setting in which she feels safe in your arms, not a "you better tell me or else" kind of mentality that you would use on a 6 year old...

And then to secretly listen in on a convo with her friend while she asks her 3 questions?? Just so you can feel better about it?? It's obvious she did something. Now it's time to either step up to the plate and try to forgive her, or don't. Quit trying to intimidate her. Assume the worst and start working towards the goal, which should be saving your marriage. If it happened, it will come out eventually, but if you just assume it already happened, then the details won't be so painful when they do come...

Thanks Boomer,

First, I have never threatened or given ultimatums, I have questioned what she has told me in the past in attempts to show her how ridiculous some of her answer are, I knew the answers to some of my own questions and she would still lie. As far as she is concerned everything is back to normal with us which scares me, normal is what got us here and her lack of communications, she never mentioned anything was wrong, it was all great as far as I knew! Her bar actions? and Cybersex proved the opposite.

My wife has always had a secure, loving setting, its called our home and three kids, this is what I cherish most!

I'll tell you my opinion why Telling the truth and Discovering the truth is so important to me....Marriage is about love, friendship, commitment and trust. if any of these fail in a marriage the marriage will turn into something else. Having a partner that cheats/lies on you is the ultimate betrayal, not admitting it so we can work through it together is putting salt on the wound. She has gotten away with the ultimate marriage crime, if she confesses, it's in the open so her & I can both see it and deal with it together. By not confessing she can obviously not deal with it on her own or refuses too, thus keeping it secret and anything else now & in the future that she can't deal with will most likely be kept secret as well. A marriage needs no secrets! You can't solve problems you don't know and assuming problems exist is a big assumption.

Only if I take my wife's girlfriend out of the picture will this be "obvious" to me (i.e. the phone call, that my wife lets me listen in on)....everything point in one direction but I can't see it or I refuse too. Am I being stupid believing that my wife did these internet searches for her friend?

Unlike many great people her on MB I could not continue a marriage with someone who has betrayed me in the most devastating way. How could I possibly just assume my wife cheated on me (regardless of things that suggest it). I would be dealing and acting with potentially bad information that would impact our marriage.

Thanks
GR

Bommer,
I don't know you're situation but your opinion comes from it as does mine.

I really disagree with...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why??? What difference does it make. If she did indeed do something she is now regretting (which is obvious) and she is too ashamed to admit it, why would you decide that saving your marriage is something you will only try to do if she confesses?? That's like the teacher making all the students stay after school when one won't confess to throwing the spitball.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The answer to your question above is the following: her confession will show that she not only understands that what she did was wrong but more importantly that she is willing to make the sacrefice of confession to save the marriage. She'll finally be doing something for her H. She'll put her selfish behavior aside.

She'll be putting the first step forward of regaining and rebuilding his trust.

Again our opinions come from our personal experiences. As you can see from my signature line, my W continued to lie to me for 18 months after I discovered her relationship. This created a false recovery. Do you want Gut_Rot to go through the same hell? It's history now but I wish my W had come clean with the PA truth when the EA was discovered. I truely believe we'd be so much further down the path of recovery. Instead of being 2 years into recovery we're really only 6-8 months in. The second round of lies are doubly troubling as well.

Just MHO,

cwmac

Well said cwmac,
That sums it up perfectly for me. If you know what your dealing with you can deal with it. If it comes out or is discovered later it will only make things worse. Building trust back again is a huge task and moving forward with any kind of deception/lies will not work in my opinion. When our partner is not telling the truth regarding affairs they are only fooling themselves into believing their own lies, not a good foundation for building trust and it will most likely lead to more/continued deception down the road.

GR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cwmac:
<strong> Bommer,
I don't know you're situation but your opinion comes from it as does mine.

I really disagree with...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why??? What difference does it make. If she did indeed do something she is now regretting (which is obvious) and she is too ashamed to admit it, why would you decide that saving your marriage is something you will only try to do if she confesses?? That's like the teacher making all the students stay after school when one won't confess to throwing the spitball.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The answer to your question above is the following: her confession will show that she not only understands that what she did was wrong but more importantly that she is willing to make the sacrefice of confession to save the marriage. She'll finally be doing something for her H. She'll put her selfish behavior aside.

She'll be putting the first step forward of regaining and rebuilding his trust.

Again our opinions come from our personal experiences. As you can see from my signature line, my W continued to lie to me for 18 months after I discovered her relationship. This created a false recovery. Do you want Gut_Rot to go through the same hell? It's history now but I wish my W had come clean with the PA truth when the EA was discovered. I truely believe we'd be so much further down the path of recovery. Instead of being 2 years into recovery we're really only 6-8 months in. The second round of lies are doubly troubling as well.

Just MHO,

cwmac </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CWMAC...you and I have been here a long time...and while it's true my situation dictates my opinion, I would like a chance to explain why I feel that way.....You and I have seen countless new members here that have been through the same thing. Wondering, snooping, worrying, etc...and almost without fail it turns out that the WS was guilty...maybe not guilty of actually infidelity in the physical way, but infidelity regardless. The point i'm trying to make to mr. gutrot is that if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck...Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best...and all those other cliches....True a false recovery is hard, but ultimately, don't you think that him constantly wondering/scheming/snooping is worse right now.
I don't believe he should pretend everything is hunky dory...what he should do is admit to himself that it's probable that something happened, and then proceed to heal the best he can...at the same time, informing her that he knows something happened, and that he is there for her when she wants to talk....He still has quite a challenge ahead of him. And to constantly make threats about leaving her if he finds out she lied does not create a loving, caring environment in which she would feel safe enough to open up to him.......and that's mho...

Boomer,
Thanks for the clarification. BTW, I wasn't trying to attack you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The point i'm trying to make to mr. gutrot is that if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck...Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a great goal however I'm not sure that it is possible. I mentally prepared for the worst. During the 18 month false recovery, I assumed that the sex had occurred. But I was in a limbo area. I didn't feel as though recovery could really begin until the truth was out.

Unfortunately even with this preparation, the reality of it was overwhelming. It took me right back to ground zero. Actually it took me back to negative territory because of all of the lying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but ultimately, don't you think that him constantly wondering/scheming/snooping is worse right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I definitely agree with you there but again I know that for a BS right after the first suspicion hits it is nearly impossible to keep yourself from wondering,scheming, snooping & visioning. The anxiety and adreneline levels sky rocket.

Gut_Rot..Boomer's right if you can relax. Try. May I offer some advice that was offered to me but ignored back in 2002. Go to you doctor and tell him/her what's going on and get on either anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds asap. If I had been able to relax I could have more calmly proceeded in uncovering/exposing the affair and thus beginning recovery.

Normally I am very anti-medication but not on this one. I did as people suggested I excercised until I nearly dropped. It helped but not enough.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He still has quite a challenge ahead of him. And to constantly make threats about leaving her if he finds out she lied does not create a loving, caring environment in which she would feel safe enough to open up to him..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gut_rot this is absolutely true. It sounds as though you believe the environment is relatively calm. Has there been anger in the past? What EN's were you not meeting?

Gut_rot said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By not confessing she can obviously not deal with it on her own or refuses too, thus keeping it secret and anything else now & in the future that she can't deal with will most likely be kept secret as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right. By not dealing with it, it's even possible contact can begin again or it could happen again with a new OM. Will depend on your specific situation. I reread your posts. Is she still going out with the new girfriend? Is she still going to bars without you?

What are the pre-A issues that may have created the environment? Have you filled out the EN's questionaire?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> to constantly make threats about leaving her if he finds out she lied does not create a loving, caring environment in which she would feel safe enough to open up to him..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True...when you talk to your W it always needs to be as calm as possible. If you feel the adrenaline start to spike take a time out and come back later to the conversation. I do believe it is ok to reset the boundaries. "I'm willing to forgive this time but next time is the deal breaker." Whatever they are.

Do you think you can forgive her? You may answer this question differently in 3 mos, 6 mos or a year.

Keep coming back.

cwmac

Hello again and thanks for your posts.

Our environment is calm and we are doing more as a family, any anger is directly related to the issues discussed here. When I bring up anything from the past the conversation will start off fine (I'm a vary calm person) but will soon be escalated by my wife, she will yell, scream and cry. I'm then forced to stop talking about it and calm her down, the topic gets dropped again and she will ignore it ever happened and assume everything is fine again. This is my biggest concern, I can't talk to her about our relationship without her thinking I'm attacking her (in terms of issues) and that it's all her fault. I just can't understand why she can't face things.

I guess their always must be a EN that is not being fulfilled for this crud to happen and in my case though I didn't realize it was not spending enough time with her between 9:00pm and 1am (i.e. after dinner & the kids are in bed) and occasional weekends that I worked. All other time was devoted to her & our kids. I've also worked from home for the past 3 years and have always been here for her. When the crud hit the fan five months ago my wife's excuse was that I was never their for her which saddened me greatly because in my opinion I was. I was home everyday & every weekend, vary affectionate toward her, complementing her, very attracted sexually while her on the other hand; shopping almost daily with friends, out weekends during the evening with girl friends, very low affection toward me, doesn't seem sexually attracted to me (i.e. never comes on to me, once in the three years of me working at home have we ever had an encounter during the day). With our young kids we both neglected our relationship by not doing more together (her & I) by arranging a babysitter and going out (this was my fault as well), this lead (in my opinion) to her friends becoming more important than me. All this and I did not see problems because my wife seemed happy as could be which made me happy (my only complaint was her lack of sex/affection toward me which I did mention to her previously 3 or 4 times with no change) we rarely ever fight and if we do its resolved quickly. All our friends thought we had the best marriage going... Once I discovered her late nigh chat sessions and started questioning her late nights out all the lies started and I couldn't believe what she was doing. the lies kept coming and coming.

She still calls or see's this girlfriend occasionally and has stopped going out to bars.

I'm always calm when talking and I think that's what messes it up because it seems as If I'm in control of the situation/her. as mentioned before she can't handle any negative very well.

I just don't know when things are bad between us because she never talks about it and makes things appear perfect which we can see they aren't, so this also leaves me with big concerns for our future when she can't/won't communicate. What I see when the kids are gone & us sitting on a porch together, is her with one foot out the door.

So, If I take a stand a believe she had sex with another man which I think she did than I have spelled it out for myself because she will never admit it, she can't do it.

I also feel that she may feel trapped in our relationship, she currently has no Job and could not easily get one that could support herself and the kids part time, so this could also attribute to the smoke and mirrors!! (I have supported her in anything she wants to do including going back to school)

I'll keep you posted
GR

Keep your chin up....Another thing I would encourage is to read, read, read...here on the website and especially His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair...