I really need help. Found out 3 days ago about the OW and the affiar. The OW is a long term friend that my H and I both went to college with (my H and I were not even dating at the time, we were just all friends). My H has been good friends with her ever since then, but never saw her on a regular basis after college. Back in August, he joined a sports team with her. The affiar started as an escalating friendship and I did not know they were spending endless hours after the games talking at the bars etc. In Jan-Feb they aparently took the friendship to a physical level on two occasions.

I confronted H the day I found out (3 days ago) and he said he had already quit volleyball earlier that day. It appears as though he was trying to end the A on his own. However, I know he did not expect me to implement Plan A -> ZERO contact. When I did he resisted and said it would be very difficult -- not because he was in love with her, because he claims he's not, but because he doesn't want to loose this "good friend". I told him it's Plan A (no contact) or else I will not be able to get over this. Now he tells me he will do anything in his power to avoid OW.

The problem is that I don't know how to act and what feelings to share with him right now. So many negative emotions running through me and yet I love him so much. I am running around like Jekyl and Hyde. I have written him some pretty firm letters and wonder if I am taking the right approach. H is very manipulative so I feel that I have to be very firm with him with respect to Plan A and other things or he will walk all over me like he frequently does. But I can feel the Love Bank dwindling when I am firm. Should I be pouring out my true feelings to him in letters? I try to keep them very honest on what I am feeling. My only requests of him so far are not to have contact with OW and go with me for counseling...which I am still trying to arrange.

I just don't see how we will ever be completely past this as OW lives in the area and is also married. Their marriage is on the rocks and the H knows about it and is trying to fight for the marriage as well. The OW and OH are mutual friends with our group of college friends that we still keep in touch with several times a year. In order to keep Plan A - no more contact...we will constantly have to analyze whether or not the OW will be there to determine if we should go to these events. I don't know if he will be willing to live like this...always making sure OW isn't going to the same places, etc. And how can I live with the fact that she lives in a nearby town and could be on the prowl for my H at any time...even several years to come?

Also, is Plan A a life-long plan (i.e. does it mean no contact with the person ever again in life)?

Help!

Sounds like you all need to get away from those friends, cause it will never be the same between you, and the temptation will be there. You do need to be firm about your boudaries, but as it has been explained to me, Plan A is to show the WS what they are missing and win them back. I'm no expert and there are folks on here who are pretty good with advice. The rollercoaster you're on will be going crazy for a long time. You will have good moments and something will set you off in a flash. Get used to it for awhile and get into counseling if you arent already. Prayin for ya.

I'm so sorry you have found yourself here.

WS is going through withdrawal. He figures he needs to stop seeing OW now that you know about the A, but it's going to be very hard. You will have to Plan A like crazy. It's going to be very difficult, so have a timetable to go to Plan B.

He needs to understand that he cannot be friends with this woman or any other woman because he had an A. He needs to be focusing on you and recovery, but he is still in the fog.

Plan A is about taking care of yourself, avoiding LBs, and fulfilling ENs. At first, you will think that there is no way you can be 'nice' to WS, but you'll be surprised. This is part of the plan to recover your M -- you *have* to do it -- and you'll be amazed that you can do it.

Right now, only express your loving thoughts to WS. Express that you are hurt and angry, but do it without LB'ing. Journal. Get all of your emotions out on paper. You can throw them away, but don't LB your WS.

I'm glad you are seeking MC. You will be able to get more of your feelings out there. You might even consider IC.

Unfortunately, you may have to change your lifestyle/find a new circle of friends. IF you think OW will be at a function, just don't go.

Oh, and post here like crazy.

<small>[ April 09, 2004, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: lbc ]</small>

Hi HSB,

Welcome to MB although I am sorry you are here for Infidelity.

First things first.Plan A is about "negotiating" with your WS to separate from the OP and end the A.You do this by trying to fill EN's of the WS,no LB's and no DJ's.It is not about "zero contact".So in order for you to understand this completely, I think you need to read all the MB concepts very carefully if you have not already.Since it sounds like your aim here is to get your WH to not see OP right off the bat,you may need to reread the concepts.Plan A is also not about being a doormat so instead of running around like a chicken with it's head cut off,take a breather and spend some time here reading.Plan A is NOT a lifelong plan at all.Again read the concepts and about Plan B too.Plan A is only recommended for 3-6 months at most with 6 months being re-evaluated.It is too long in my opinion.

Next,it will be very important to expose this A to everyone.That includes both families,*OW husband*,friends,co-workers,anyone that can put pressure on your WH and the OW.Yes he is going to be mad BUT don't concern yourself with that aspect.Blowing the A wide open helps expose it to the light of day,decrease the fantasy aspect and helps reality start to seep in.A's thrive in secrecy and fantasy.Anyone that could influence this A to end has a chance by knowing it is going on in the first place.Don't necessarily believe that your WH is ending it even though he may be making some feeble attempts.At this point you CANNOT trust him at all with what he says or does.

I would also suggest that you get the books: Surviving an Affair(SAA) and His Needs, Her Needs(HNHN) by Dr.Harley.You can do nothing about the fact that OW lives near you right now BUT you are now in a fight for your marriage.If you follow the MB rules here, that is your best chance right now.MB concepts are designed to help you through all of this regardless of the outcome.Keep posting here as others have said and consider coming to the General Q's board(GQII).There is more traffic there than here.
Stop writing letters to WH too.WS's don't want to be educated and too many letters,depending on what's in them,can backfire.He may feel pressured and that will push him away even more.You can and should tell him that his continued contact with the OW hurts you.Read up on EN's and try to fill your WH's as much as you can in the Plan A.

Lastly for now,get into counseling,consider it seriously with or without your WH.I went to see someone 3 days after I found out.If he wants to end the A then tell him about us here.We will help him.If he doesn't want to,then MC is a waste so go for yourself(IC).If you are not sleeping or eating well and are very emotional,also consider seeing a doctor for some AD's (antidepressants) to help.Many of us here are on them or have taken them to help.This inital discovery period is very traumatic.Get as much support as you can.You'll need to take care of yourself or be taken care of during this time depending on how you are coping,ok?

Take care.

O

May be the OW's H should be let in on this secret??????

Might help the N/C if all 4 partys involved knew what had happened? ( the A! )

Wouldn't he (the OW's H want to know? )Morally shouldn't he know???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

just my opinion,
Atruheart

The OWH does know. He is the one who told me. So, we all 4 know each other knows if that makes sense.

Interesting to hear comments on exposing the A to family, friends, etc. I thought that would have been a real no-no as I would think that would severely withdraw points from his love bank? The only one I have been seriously conisdering telling is my WS's parents. I don't want to tell my parents as I feel they will look at him differently and treat him poorly after this. I was looking at it as a private matter between the two of us that must be worked out...not as a newsflash for all of our friends/family. In fact after he told me, I told him that and that I didn't plan to tell any friends/family. I'd like to hear some other opinions on exposing the A to friends/family.

Wondering if folks would mind reviewing this letter and critiquing it. I have not sent it to my WS and I may not send it at all if it paints the wrong message. Really need help and advice about some of these issues I've raised here....here is the letter. Be forewarned, it is very long:

****
I am hoping that I will soon receive a letter back from you on my prior letter as well as this one. It is important I get your feedback on things.

This morning, I am feeling quite miserable. I still feel like I am living in a nightmare and this couldn’t have really happened. I know I have to face the truth…that it has and that somehow I’m going to have to get over it. I hope you can understand the mixed feelings inside of me right now. I know I act like Jekyl and Hyde since this has happened, but you must understand. My whole heart says “I love him” while my mind cries out “I hate what he did.” I am still not sure why this happened, and I think that right there is the key thing I want to understand. There is a part of me that says she must have been giving you something you needed. Whether that was words you needed to hear or social companionship or something else, I just don’t know. Maybe I didn’t tell you how wonderful you are to me and how special you are to me during the time this event occurred. Don’t get me wrong, I am not taking full blame for what has happened. There was no excuse for what happened – I only wish that you had come to me and told me I wasn’t meeting the needs you had at the moment. Perhaps you didn’t even see it coming and didn’t realize it happened because of these neglected needs. I don’t know. Or maybe everything I have been reading about this subject just doesn’t apply to your case here. Only you know the answer in your heart…and I hope for the sake of our marriage you will share that with me.

Lately, I’ve been thinking about all the ripple effects this is going to cause. Since I absolutely cannot tolerate any contact between the two of you, things are going to get really sticky when it comes to things like parties and activities with our college friends. Nonetheless, I need you to keep your promise. It saddens me to know that each time an event like this comes up, research will need to be done to ensure the two of you will not see each other. It’s just too risky that you will see each other and then old feelings/desires will return for at least one of you if not both. I know you say that you will miss her only as a friend. I believe you. But I also believe that it is too high of a risk to our marriage to maintain your relationship as a friend with her. I have to say that if she were truly a friend to you, she would not have been selfish enough to take what she wanted and put you in a position that jeopardized your happy marriage. Did she know you were happy with our marriage? Or did you talk to her about things you were unhappy with? If you did, those are the things I need to know so I can correct them. I don’t mean to sound like I am judging her…she made a mistake…a very big one. Maybe someday I can learn to forgive her only because that is what God wants me to do – but I never want to see her/hear from her again as long as I live.

I absolutely hate this whole situation. I feel so much hurt inside right now and so overwhelmed with how we will go on with our lives. I fear that as long as she lives in the area and we have common friends, you both are constantly going to be tempted to resume the affair. I truly hope you don’t have those feelings in your heart and that you won’t feel at all tempted…but I have a strong feeling she will have these feelings. I am scared of what will happen if she and her husband do not resurrect their marriage. I fear that will only make her even more accessible and more aggressive in pursing you again. And if they do work their marriage out, I fear there will be another weak moment somewhere in the future when the road gets rocky (as in any normal marriage) and the pattern may repeat.

Another thing I really need to get off my chest is regarding this whole Triathlon that you registered for this summer. I need you to understand how hard it is for me knowing that the reason you got this idea for the Triathlon in your head was because of her. I am 100% confident this would not be happening if you had not started playing sports with her and hanging around with her. To think that I felt hurt when you first told me that you were considering the Tri and that you had already started training for it without mentioning the idea to me. To be honest, I was very hurt that you did not share your initial idea on that with me. I know you may not have told her that you were going to do it in the beginning, but that doesn’t matter. Here are some of my thoughts. I wonder if you decided to try it in order to impress her? I wonder if it was in order to get closer to her (even as a friend/companion) and share the whole experience (training, etc.) with her and have something in common. I wonder if you were interested in the benefits of being more physically fit and to have a more handsome body to impress her with. I’m not saying these WERE your feelings or reasons…I’m saying these area the things I am wondering about. Now whenever I see you talk about training for this thing and the Triathlon itself, or even see you take your special vitamins, I think of her and this whole mess. How can I stand back and watch you train and participate in an event that she put into your head? It is only constantly going to bring up the hurt inside of me. Then there is always the event itself. I know there are thousands participating in this event. However, I cannot bear to think of you and she seeing each other again and sharing this experience and it would break the no contact rule that you have promised. I really hope you will consider selling your slot or dropping out. I don’t care about the fee we paid to register – not a bit. I know you probably will think it is unfair of me to begrudge you this opportunity, but please try to put yourself in my shoes and understand that it is not entirely my fault this whole thing happened. To explain further…so many times I’ve asked if you and I could do something together – join a class or sport of some sort that we could do together. You have now done this twice with her. You agreed to play sports with her – which I was very jealous of as I wanted so badly to share something like that with you. Then you signed up for this Triathlon. Do not misunderstand me, I do want you to be able to keep physically fit and if you have the right reasons, I don’t mind you doing races, etc. as long as you are not planning to be in them together with her. I will probably always be reminded of how you got into these activities, but I think I can get past them as long as you are not sharing the experiences with her.

Please, please understand, I am not trying to be mean to you here. I’m really not. I love you and want you to be happy. More than anything, I want US to be happy. I need you to come with me to counseling. I need to see your commitment to our marriage more than anything right now. I need to see that you are willing to fight for us. I need to see that you are willing to go through whatever we have to in order to get through this thing together. I know that is going to mean lots of things you do not care for. Counseling, homework, ground rules, etc. But if you care enough for me, I hope you will do them willingly.

I know this is a very negative letter. I am only being honest. I love you so much. You are such as special person to me. I love you inside and out with all my heart. You have brought me more joy in my lifetime than anyone I have ever known. I cannot believe this is happening. I feel like my whole world is crashing around me. I need you to put it back together for us and convince me you want more than anything for our marriage to be long and happy. Please tell me this is also what you want for us.

****

HSB,

Dr.Harley recommends that you tell as many people as you can that you and your WH know short of taking out a billboard.I know it's sounds like a bad idea when you first come here but it is truly necessary.Affairs thrive in secrecy and fantasy and once everyone knows in your circle of family and friends the A starts to crack.If no one knew then that would be just what they want.

As an example,I told my SIL right away since we are close and she in turn told my In-laws and all of them turned out to be the best support I could get besides my own family.They never supported my WH in his A and have been instrumental in not giving the A any more fuel to burn. If my WH thought for one minute that his family supported him in his A then he would have probably already divorced me by now,who knows.It definitely made it harder knowing that the homewrecker(HW) would not be welcomed into the family EVER for what she is trying to accomplish: the destruction of my marriage.Yes my WH's actions also count but this HW has a lot going AGAINST her in terms of this A working out long term.She doesn't even live in this country...yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I think you will find that most regulars here will say the same thing,exposure is a must.

Also,the letter.Ugh.Well it's very long and I know that you want to pour out your heart and soul but it is really lost on many of these WS's.He might get halfway through but then he may feel pressured or that you appear too needy.You are telling him and asking him for things that he may not be able to give you right now.You need to read the concepts here and follow them.If you have your own agenda then you may end up hurting your chances.MB has a guideline for going through all of this but you have to stick to it.

What does this OW and her husband say now since the A is known to the four of you? What is their plan...do you know?
Can the OW husband be your ally here?

O

My FWH and I agreed on who "should" know....He told me if I had to TELL THE WORLD it was what I HAD TO DO......I only told my mother- my best girlfriend and my sister in-law. Believe me 3 were enough!!!LOL I can laugh now....but at the time I didn't know that "telling" acually causes pain to the one you share with too. They then "carry a burden also".

So my advice is: Think VERY carefully in who you need to expose the A too. Especially if you are planning on recovery vs. leaving (divorce)

Just know that whomever you tell will undoubtably have the right to their "opinions".... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> some of which YOU may not like.

My FWH told me he already had the "shame" in his heart and if the entire world knew it would not make him feel any worse. So he allowed me to confide in whomever I needed too.

Just note my FWH was very remorseful and wanted to do for me whatever he needed for me to be able to start recovering. (bless his heart!)

My own road to recovery has been quick.
I think that my FWH's attitude and actions are the only thing that got me this far this quickly.

Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks to all for the feedback.

The latest is that WS is now telling me he feels that in order to get on with our lives he needs to have "closure" with OW. He says he has some questions for OW and would like to tell her some things. I know Harley recommends the letter and that I review it before it is sent. I just don't think he would go for this idea as he is looking to have questions answered by OW. He says he knows it is unreasonable for him to request this, but it is building inside him. He says maybe that feeling the need for "closure" will go away over time. He says that if I won't agree to it he will just have to get over it w/o doing this, but it will probably be harder to do. I told him I would think about his request, but no promises. HELP! What should I do? I've thought about trying to establish some parameters around allowing him to contact OW one final time...maybe by phone, or email or snail mail? Not sure if I should even be considering doing that or if I should just be firm and say NO.

The OWH is my ally here and I have learned from him that he and his wife(the OW) have been doing better and she has been respecting the no-contact agreement. He has not told the OW (his wife) that I know about the A. He is about to do that soon and we are both fearful the OW will contact my WS once she finds out.

I'm going to my first IC tonight. If I like this counselor, I will continue and probably by the 3rd session, he will go with me. I'll see what he says tonight and will compare notes with any replies from this posting.

HSB,

Hang in there.You're in this for the long haul.

"Closure".The all too frequent word of a WS.Just like in the script! Closure is just another way of saying I have to be in contact.Has your WH ever smoked? If so then he would know that he needs to go cold turkey on this woman.But even that is no guarantee.Many WS's cannot stick to a first time NC.For my WH it was saying "good bye".He was about to say his third good bye to the homewrecker this past week but his grandmother died and foiled that attempt.I don't really believe it was good bye anyway,it was hello again.I have been through two false recoveries so it is never that easy even when they do end the A.It will be just as bad getting through and dealing with all the pain that got you there in the first place.

Keep to the Plan A approach and don't LB or DJ.Also don't worry about the OW contacting your WH about her husband telling her that you know about the A.That is to be expected and she should know that you know.One more person to have to face.I used to think that a Plan B letter was the real deal for NC but IMO it is a toss up whether or not it will work.A determined WS can just turn around and say that he didn't mean it to the OP.There are so many ways to be in contact these days you practically need to be a PI to be sure.

Just keep reminding your WH that it hurts you that he is still in contact with this OW.You can't force him into a NC,you have to make being with you and being home the more attractive of the choices right now.
Also remember that you should try to present a strong, confident woman as much as it may be hard to do so.If your WH sees a wishy washy needy person at home,how attractive is that to want to come back to? He knows that he's hurt you terribly and it is hard for him to live with that.He has to have some shred of hope that you are willing to make changes and make the marriage better than it was.Look your best and be agreeable but be firm when you need to be.This is a true test of your capabilities to listen,be respectful and non judgmental and be loving so he won't feel threatened.Doe she deserve this? Maybe.He has put you through he** BUT if you want to save your marriage you have to swallow that pride sometimes and do what the MB plans say.

Your WH says that maybe the feelings of "closure" will go away over time.What will help the feelings go away over time is getting the necessary professional help,NC with OW and reading the recommended books here.Also spending time away with you would help keep the feelings of withdrawal from overwhelming him if he has a loving supportive wife there with him.

Keep in mind that even if he does the NC,there is a good chance he will not be able to stick to it this first time.You have to keep your guard up.Hopefully with the OW husband working on his end will help keep the two apart.

O

For some reason there is confusion to what plan A really is. Plan A is very central to the MB concept, so this is strange.
Plan A is a strategy for the A to end, and recovery begin. Thus it is not a lifelong effort. In cases where the A does not end, it also has a limited lifespan, and should then be followed by plan B.
If the A has ended, and you are in recovery, then you should work according to a different plan.
The central elements of plan A are
1) Avoid love busters (LB)
2) Fulfil the WS' EN (Don' expect much in return yet.)
3) Negotiate the end to the A. No LBs, but firm boundaries. ("I will not live with three in this marriage" rather than "I demand that you stop".)
4) If necessary expose the A to "the world", to people who will influence the WS/OP. People who's opinion is important to the WS/OP.

Exposure is a very powerful tool. But it has a cost: In the future people will know about the A. This cost is an acceptable price to stop an A. But if the A has ended, there is probably no need for exposure.

Plan A often has huge effects on yourself. It gives you knowledge and skills that will benefit any future relationship you live in. As I understand your post, the A is now over. Then the tools of recovery, such as radical honesty, the policy of Joint Agreement and MC should come into play. Read the relevant pages in this site.

NC is very important to recovery. Recovery is nearly impossible with continued contact. "Just friends" must be history now. The two of them killed that option.

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Frank57 ]</small>