Okay, my wife and I keep getting bogged down on one point on our recovery. While I will never change my point of view I'd like to hear what others have thought, so here's our point of contention. My wife purposly decieved me to carry on a relationship with another man. I consider this an affair. She says it is not because "we didn't have sex". Of course I will never know if they did or did not but I really don't care. I've even told her I could better deal with a one night stand that involved sex than a six month affair that involved emotional bonding and all the lies, and deciept that went along with it. I'm sure there are others that have had there WS justify the affair this way and I was curious how you felt. I like what Dr. Harley says on the site. Something along the lines that an affair is defined how ever the offended party defines it.

Mr. E.
Same thing here...my FWH insists we seperated because of the problems we had in our marriage.
He knows he was WRONG for turning to someone else, for conversation, bonding,... blah blah blah....

BUT insists he did NOT have an affair. Because sex wasn't involved. I'm with you here, don't know whether I believe him or not, but emotional bonding is a far deeper cut than physical one nites.

If your in recovery, you have to agree to disagree on this point. AS long as she is having NC with this person, and realizes to fully recover the marriage, she can't make herself vulnerable to those types of relationships in the future.

Anny time that there is deceipt about emotional proximity with a member of the opposite sex that is considered an affair. It may be emotional or physical, but the point is that there is betrayal of the partner (eg., boyfriend, girlfriend, spouse, etc.). Many people do not understand this point and belittle the hurt that an emotional affair can have. Physical affairs usually start with an emotional affair. She is wrong about this, but do not say that you would better handle a one night stand because you don't know the pain that it brings.

Thanks for your input. I am getting more relaxed about this point but never will I change my mind and just wondered what others thought. At first I told her that if I did not sense true remorse on her part we could not go on. I now sense it even if she tends to down play, at least in my eyes, her affair because "we never had sex".
To the other point I hope I never have to find out about the one nighter but know I couldn't hurt any worse.

Mr. E, you don't know. I know the pain of EA and ONS. Seperate but equally devastating. EA doesn't come with 8 months of flashbacks.

But you are right that it is easier to convince the ONS participant that they had an A. EA spouses are very hard to convince. I am battling this for last 2 years.

WOE

Mr E,
Sorry to hear that yet another H has been betrayed by their spouse. Join the club!

A couple of thoughts........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My wife purposly decieved me to carry on a relationship with another man. I consider this an affair. She says it is not because "we didn't have sex". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would consider this an affair. I have a great book that discusses Emotional Affairs and how prevalent they are these days especially with co-workers. It is "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I like what Dr. Harley says on the site. Something along the lines that an affair is defined how ever the offended party defines it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I, too, like Harley's definition, however IMHO it is a bit too vague for some, especially WW who are still in the "fog". If you say that you think it's an affair; they can just respond "well I don't and I think you are being silly & jealous. We're just good friends"

Glass defines an EA as containing the following elements:Secrecy, Intimacy & Sexual Chemistry

1) Secrecy. Her relationship was definitely a secret from you. She might say,"well I never lied to you." Sound familiar? Remind her that there are two types of lies: commission as well as ommission. Commission is obvious. You ask her what she did for lunch at work today and she flat out lies that she ate a sandwich in her office when she went to lunch with the co-worker. Som people just don't get that omisssion ie not telling all of the facts is also a lie. In the lunch example she'd respond "I went to lunch with a co-worker. What she forgot tell you is that the co-worker that she's been carrying on with and they went to a real eexpensive restaurant where they could sit in the back in a romantic atmosphere.

2) Intimacy. It starts out innocently. They go to lunch to talk about a business deal. They share ideas. They feel an ease of communication. As the EA develops they spend more time together. They share more intimate details of their lives, their likes, their dislikes, their hopes for the future, etc. Once they feel comfortable together they may start to share their marriage "problems"

3) Sexual Chemistry. We all know that feeling. When you meet someone and there is immediately a spark. This feeling can also grow. As in the case of co-workers it starts out very innocently but it has a life of its own. I believe that men have the immediate sexual chemistry. Women usually don't start develope a serious level until there is an emotional connection.

Is your W committed to the M? Has she written a NC letter? Has she or the OM changed jobs?

Depending on the answers I have a few other thoughts taken from my experience with EAs and PAs.

cwmac

cwmac, thanks for the insightful post. Read my origianl thread "dazed and confused" for some backgroud. Yes letter was sent about 10 day ago but OM won't give up to the point we got a protective order which my WW allowed him to break a couple of weeks ago so now the cops won't enforce. For clarification letter was sent after WW allowed contact.