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#446708 04/16/04 10:48 PM
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New here so please bear w/me. Feeling very confused re: HA. 1 1/2 yrs ago found out he was having EA with someone he met on business trip. Our marriage has been ok...we both have some issues that have made it w/o much affection at times. We have 3 children 4-10 yr. Neither of us were meeting the other's emot. needs. He was the last person on earth I would expect to have A. I was rocked....but over time felt like we were able to work thru it (w/o MC help). In Dec (day after bday) I found out he was having SA with a diff woman. They met several times over several months. He did the typical things when I would call him those nights and he would not answer his cel phone....he would call back and say he did not hear it and was on his way home (they met at hotel in town when she came to the area). Anyway, I responded in fairly typical manner...shock, anger, hurt and then overcompensation. I have gone back and forth as to what I should do. One time was bad enough but 2 times just does not seem to merit forgiveness (hard for me being a christian). I go b/w leaving and staying (for the children, families, job....etc......and I do love him). I just wonder if I can get to the point where I do not question everything he says and does....he told OW the next day it was over...he told me that he had planed to end it anyway b/c of the guilt. She was married w/children as well.
Many days I wake up and want him to move out...I want to have some self-respect to live out the rest of my life with. Other days, I can't imagine not having him be my life partner. He wants so badly for us to make things right but he also understands if he has caused so much damage that I need to go. I have nobody else to talk with for a variety of reasons. I don't want our families to be hurt, I don't ever want our children to find out and we live in an area where we live in a fishbowl where gossip is daily fodder. Any insight or wisdom would be appreciated.

#446709 04/17/04 12:29 AM
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PNC,

Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to hear such hurtful talk.

Your H has been struck with the same A virus many of us have had to deal with. He needs to get counseling.

Please go to the concepts section above and read it. Then go out and get 2 books:
1. Surviving an Affair by Dr W. Harley
2. His Needs/Her Needs by Dr W. Harley

You need to acquaint yourself with what is known as the roller coaster and fog babble. Then you will learn how to plan A vs plan B and how to react to such events.

It is critical you invest some time to learn about the emotional virus that his bit your H. It will not leave willingly and you may see your H turn into some sort of strange character. This character may seem foreign or even alien like in his reactions. C/b a total change from the man you married.

We have seen it many times. Right now you need to work on protecting you and your love for your real H not the man he is morphing into.

Educating a person in this state of mind is not healthy. Instead it could hurt you more, so work on just educating yourself and building your personal support group.

Know that even if your M appears to be headed for recovery, learn how to recognize false recoveries. You are hurt and also need MC attention. Your sitch looks better than most. Learn how to appreciate the good and handle the bad.

You have us here and the books. Get with a good MC who is familar with MB like principles. If you can have a few counseling sessions with Steve or Jennifer, that w/b good.

Know there w/b good and bad days. Keep posting and venting here.

You will hear even more nonsense. Don't panic. Just keep yourself safe. Remind your H you love him but that marital recovery will take both your efforts. Don't do his recovery for him. You do yours and he needs to do his.

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. Pray for patience.

Don't panic in his fog of despair. Don't panic if he babbles a bit. Just don't try to find logic in all his words that don't make sense.

take care,
L.

#446710 04/17/04 08:35 AM
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PNC - Welcome to the system. While I regret the circumstances that have brought you here, I am thrilled that the Lord has led you to a system where you can get some real support and real advice on how to recover your marriage and have the sort of marriage you truly desire.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, I responded in fairly typical manner...shock, anger, hurt and then overcompensation. I have gone back and forth as to what I should do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perfectly normal reaction and NOT something you should feel guilty about or beat yourself up over. Your marriage has been "raped," should you feel nothing? Should you feel "it's okay?" Not hardly, you need to feel what you are feeling. The only caution that I would throw out here is that while it's okay to have all the emotional feelings, be careful in what ACTIONS you allow yourself in response. Righteous anger is okay and allowed by God. "...but in your anger, do not sin."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One time was bad enough but 2 times just does not seem to merit forgiveness (hard for me being a christian). I go b/w leaving and staying (for the children, families, job....etc......and I do love him).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perfectly understandable and it does NOT MERIT forgiveness. Forgiveness is something that we do without the offender "meriting" it. Your reactions of "run" or "stay" are normal. This has been no simple "mistake". This has been your husband totally disregarding you and your feelings in pursuit of his own very selfish desires. There is NO excuse, no justification, no problem in the marriage that "justifies" violating the marriage covenant between God, you and him. It's called "sin." It's called sin of the most heinous nature that GOD allows it as the one reason for ending a marriage without the faithful spouse also commiting a sin. It is SERIOUS. Your feelings are felt to the core of your soul, and God and those of us who have been through it know it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just wonder if I can get to the point where I do not question everything he says and does.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you can, but it is unlikely that it will happen for years. If you are both attempting to recover your marriage, you will find yourself learning to trust again...but it will be based upon his his earning your trust as a trustworthy person. "Blind Trust" is gone forever. When you do begin trusting, you will likely "trust in stages." That means you will begin by trusting in some areas, but that total trust will take a very long time and be based upon consistant, trustworthy, honest behavior on the part of your husband over the course of many years. TWICE. Twice that you know about. Once, perhaps, but twice indicates a serious problem in your husband's mind and heart, and that is where I'd like to go next.

You stated that you are Christian. What about your husband? If Christ is not Lord of both of your lives, I will wish you well, but tell you that the "basis" for recovery (and marriage in general) is very different for both of you. Especially in the area of WHO establishes the Boundaries and Standards in your lives and WHO has the authority to say "right or wrong."

If your husband claims to be a Christian, there is great hope for both of you. But I will add the caution that he (through his actions) is indicating that he has NOT made Christ Lord of his life. HE wants to remain "in control" of his choices and thinks that he can decide what to do or not do and has the innate strength within himself to "do the right thing."

One of things that we are commanded to do is to forgive IF the sinner confesses, repents, and seeks our forgiveness in much the same manner that we seek God's forgiveness. That is a "starting point" for you in recovering your marriage. But again, it begins with your husband.

It is patently obvious that he does not "allow" Christ to be sovereign Lord of his life, and would be merely lieing to himself if he thinks that he has been. But, without knowing more about what sort of "Christian" you both might consider yourselves, I'm going to stop there for now.

To help you, and him if he will seriously commit to recovering and "doing what it takes" to "prove" himself to you and to undertake the commitment to your marriage vows, I would highly recommend that you begin by reading several books on the subject. There are many, so begin one, or a few, of the "best."

In order of preference (mine) I would recommend beginning with the following books:

Torn Asunder, by Dave Carder (written from a Christian perspective.

Surviving An Affair, by Dr. Willard Harley (the founder of this site and the Marriage Builders principles.

That's enough for starters. Other than books, read all the articles on this site.

When you decide that you are both actually going to commit to recovering your marriage, then I'd also highly recommend that you move your posting to the Recovery Board and stay away from reading the Just Found Out and General Questions II forums for a while. The reason is simply that the amount of hurt and emotion on those forums can be internalized by you, drag you down mentally, and you need to focus on YOUR marriage right now.

God bless and comfort you as you begin this process.

Know that you are among friends here who have gone through it and who will sympathize and support you when needed, and who will also say the "tough" things should the need arise.

#446711 04/17/04 05:03 PM
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Thank you for the information and support. I am thankful God led me here as I have been praying and looking for this type of forum.

#446712 04/17/04 05:56 PM
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Welcome to MarriageBuilders. We have all been through what you are going through and can help you. Stick with us, you will get through this.

#446713 04/18/04 08:51 PM
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Hi PNC,

We are sorry you have to be here, but you can probably get some help, especially emotional help. You really are not crazy.

There is a difference between forgivness, and reconcillation. You can forgive and not reconcile.

If say.......... a father were to abuse a child by beating them daily for no reason, the child could forgive the parent, but not desire to live with any longer. The child would be correct in wanting to get away from daily beatings.

If your H stops the destructive behivor, you may wish to reconcile, but if not, you can get away from the abuse without feeling like it is your fault.

I think you should do a good solid month of plan A (more on that if you don't understand the term, I don't know how much you know.) Then, talk to him about the changes that need to be made. If he doesn't respond, I suggest you move to plan B.

Use the time to study about POJA, and other tools to improve your marriage.

Using the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) you should be able to come to an agreement that both of you can be happy with, not one where you give in to make him happy. It often helps if you ask things like "what would it take for you to be happy with giving up this job and getting one that WE BOTH can be comfortable with?"

I hope your counseling is helping, if you feel you still need help in that area, I recommend you call the Harleys (This site) for help. It sounds like what you really need is a plan for putting things back together - and even a few sessions could help you with that.

I commend you for wanting to try. I am sorry he is not helping. Wish we could help more, we care.

SS

<small>[ April 18, 2004, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>


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