Ok, here's the story. About 4 months ago I found secret emails that my wife had been exchanging with a man she met while working on a community project. Although they never contained any "I love you" type messages nor did they ever reveal any physical actions of meeting or sex, they obviously drew closer as time went on. The emails from the last month were filled with her complaining about me an our relationship. I confronted her with these emails and she said they were just friends and that she mostly discussed spiritual things with the man. He had recently been through a job change (not of his choice) and she was amazed at his faith that things would work out. He did find new employment and even inivted her to come for a tour of his new workplace. Initially she did not admit anything. So, I confronted the OM and although he insisted that they were just friends, he did admit that he knew she was no telling me about their correspondence. To make a long story short, I have quit drinking( one of her main complaints) lost 42 pounds, started working our, spending more time with her, listening etc. Things seem to be going great. The problem is that she often brings his name up during discussion and wants us all to be friends someday. I really don't know if I can do this. I am fairly sure that she has had no email contact with him siince our first confrontation. She is loving and attentive to me but still talks about him. She will not admit that she had an EA and I really do not know if she had a PA as well. I would appreciate any advice you can give.

Do they work together and/or do they still see & talk with each other?

This will take some time and she will probably be reluctant to do anything because "nothing happened" (according to her). Yeah, it may not have been a PA, but an EA is much more entangling.
Until she "gets it", she will want to remain friends with this guy and want you to be his buddy also (as you have found out).

Don't try to educate her by telling her what you both can do fo reach other. You learn and show her by doing it.
'
I recommend you read, "His Needs, Her Needs". Leave it laying around where she can see it but DON'T make it too obvious that you want her to see it.

Read all the links below.

As you probably already know/feel - you cannot 'be friends' with the OM (Other Man).
And neither can your wife. Read all the stuff Chris suggested. Be careful not to try to 'teach' or talk her into what you learn though. Believe me, I SO wish that worked LOL...

One thing you can do though is set a very firm boundary that you do NOT want to meet or be friends with this guy. And I guess you could also let your wife know that her relationship with the OM is inappropriate (even if she thinks it's OK and/or that she can control it). BTW, if she and the OM REALLY believed their friendship was OK then why did they keep it secret? And don't let either of them tell you that they had to because you have a 'jealousy' problem. You're feelings about this are perfectly normal and right on target.

Wives are particularly vulnerable to EA's (emotional affairs - and predatory OM are well aware of this). And most people dont' even know about the danger of an EA - assume as long as it doesn't get physical it isn't really an affair... Your wife may honestly believe it would stay just a friendship, talking about 'spiritual' matters... But by allowing the OM to fulfill what is likely very important emotional needs for her, she is at risk of eventually feeling 'in love' with him. THEN the OM will get what he's most likely after: a PA (Physical Affair).

Read, post, and read some more. But don't try to discuss everything you learn with your wife. She's already showing signs of some very 'foggy' thinking. Read the info and messages here to learn the best way for you to RESPOND to her. What you may feel like saying or doing might not always be what's most effective at saving your marriage.

<small>[ April 23, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

i am fairly certain ( because of keylogger software that I installed on the computer) that she is not having any email contact with him. He lives 20 miles and works another 20 miles from that so, I am also fairly certain that they have not been meeting. I have asked her many times that why, if he is such a "spitiual man" did he carry on such a clandestine email "friendship". I should also add that his wife had cheated on him within the last couple years. I felt him to predatory. She maintains that they were just friends and only emailed. Although she had brought about several changes in her appearance from new clothes to actually shaving "down there". Although things are much better between us, i am wondering if she is just biding her time, hoping that I will accept that things are better and she can resume at a later date. I really am not sure how to approach this.

i should also add that she did see our pastor about all of this when we decided to work things out. We have good discussions...no arguing, respecting each other's views and opinions and this has helped.

Scress,
Sorry man. I know how you feel.

I just posted to KDF over on General Questions II the following should link you to the page.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=027838;p=4

Your W is definitely having an EA see the definition by S. Glass on KDF's page. Buy the book, read it, but, as Chris said, don't try to "educate" her. It'll just backfire.

Remember "deny, deny & deny" are the bywords of WSs. She'll deny that the friendship is out of control. She'll deny it even if it is a PA as my W did. She'll make you believe that you are the ultimate jealous husband. She will refuse to give up the friendship. BTW, if you have kids tell her that one boundary that you absolutely insist on is that the OM is not to have contact with your children!

On KDF's thread I posted an excellent, although illegal in some states, way to quickly get to the truth, a voice activated recorder. See advice in KDF's thread. Be prepared to hear some pretty awful stuff about their "relationship" and possibly condemnation of you.

If the first conversation indicates a definite EA try to be patient . What I mean is: try not to jump the gun. Wait for a few more conversations before exposing the evidence. This way if it is a PA you will find out. Unfortunately for me I didn't do this and only had tangible proof of an EA. It took over a year to finally learn the truth. Talk about false recovery!

Also, don't let your W's or the OM's spirituality convince you that a PA is impossible. There are more posts from BSs from religious families on this site than from non-religious ones. My W was going to church, bible study etc. the entire time. (As a side note this has really turned me off to church)

I say this all the time to new BSs. If you feel that you're getting depressed &/or anxious get to a doctor asap and get on ADs. Many MB vets gave me this advice and I ignored it. I thought," I can handle this without drugs." Wrong. Depression is progressive so the longer it goes w/out being treated the tougher it is to treat!

Good luck to you & keep posting. MB will be your oasis in what will seem a sea of insanity (both you and your "foggy" wife)

cwmac

<small>[ April 23, 2004, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Hi there!

Sorry that you are in this situation but this is a great place full of good wisdom!

I would agree with cwmac on the religious aspect. I am a Christian and am also a WW, or FWW? I can't remember all the lingo. Anyway, it doesn't matter if you are religious or not, affairs can happen to anyone, regardless of religion, culture, etc... Read everything you can on this site and post questions if you have any. There is tons of support here!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by scress:
<strong> I confronted her with these emails and she said they were just friends </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get a copy of "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass.

Read it.

Take action and save your marriage.

I got the book to late.
I believed my wife when she said she and the OM were 'just friends' who talked about spiritual things.

Eventually my wife left me to be with the other man.

So Scress several people have advised you to buy "Not Just Friends". Have you been to the bookstore yet?

cwmac

Scress-

Your situation sounds oh too familiar. My W also was having communication (mostly cellphone) with another married man who she claimed were just friends. This went on for 5 months. The conversations were always outside my presence. She started to focus on her appearance, and just like your W, even shaved down there. My W started having him and his wife over to the house, dinner, parties etc. My W (and OM) both say it was not physical (which at this time appears to be the case), but she was definitely in an EA as confirmed by the cellphone records and later in counseling. In the beginning I knew they talked, and because I knew him and his wife as well, I accepted their friendship, although it felt uncomfortable (nothing more). Now, I can tell you, being so trusting was a mistake. We are in the fourth month of counseling and things are going very well. However, this friendship just about broke up our 19 year marriage. Oh, and by the way, the OM is a minister. My advice, you have to take a stand. To do otherwise and not be right is simply too dangerous, and painful.

Thanks to all of you for your input and support -- Justin and cw, I have the book and am reading. I don't think my wife is ready to hear any of it yet so, I will let time go until she is ready herself. We are in counseling with our pastor. She will not admit that he was attracted to her and says he was just being a really nice guy. I have told her over and over that he had to have feelings for her to continue when he knew she was not sharing any of her complaints about our relationship with me. She says she was only afraid for us and had no one to turn to. She said that my drinking made it hard for her to talk to me and that she was getting used to avoiding me altogether. Now, you must understand that I have never laid a finger on this woman in anger. Although she said I would yell and argue...in any case...my life has changed . I no longer drin at all, have been exercising...lost 42 lbs...going to church regularly with the family. She says that she is happy...we spend more time together. I just think she may still be longin to talk to him again (or maybe see him even though I have no proof of a PA). I feel a bit stressed today as our daughter has a track meet at the school where the OM is principal tomorrow. My wife is going to watch her and I have to stay behind because our youngest has a baseball game ( I coach his team). I asked her last night where the meet was..i really didn't know. She said "Well, three city schools are getting together for it (plus our school)...I really don't know where it is." This morning I asked my daughter about the location and she told me where and that she thought Mom knew that. I am fearful that she is going to meet him there. I don't want to say something and seem distrustful. But, this is driving me nuts. any suggestions?

me 42
W 42
married 21 years
3 kids
OM 48?

Scress,
You're probably right that your wife isn't ready to hear about "Not Just Friends." Try not to "educate" her.

Best thing to do is read it yourself so that it helps you with the EA.

Buy a few other marriage help books (not affair books). Tell your wife that you're reading to improve the M. That may open the door for her interest. If the door opens move slowly though.

good luck

cwmac

i am not even thinking about educating her! She has more to deal with i think. Our pastor has made us do the "15 minute" discussion every night. This is where either she or I talk about things for 15 minutes (or however long it takes to state it) about what we are feeling, what troubles us and what makes us happy. The other person cannot interrupt but may respond after the first is done. It has been very helpful in dealing with issues directly between her and myself. However, every time OM name comes up she is defensive. not rude, but very defensive. This weekend I told her that i thought he had fallen for her and that is why he kept up the emails. She seemd to go that direction but the next day denied that he could have been in love with her through email. I am going to keep trying...I will not give up my marriage! one day at a time!

There is something in the message from Maduro that relates to a message someone posted earlier in this forum and had to do with what is going on in our churches. Ministers, elders, their wives, let alone members are all falling into this mess of infidelity. It is shameful that those who are supposed to be the salt of the earth are missleading others or enticing weak persons into sin. What is worse is that those same people are the ones who serve as counselors and guides in problems of this nature. My question is, who can you trust?

I have the same feeling. And this mand (OM0 who has been having an EA (at the very least) with my W was betrayed by his W! (She had an A with someone she met in her bible study group!) This is a crazy world!

had a nother discussion last night...I told her that i can believe her when she says that she felt nothing but friendship for the OM. But, his actions of continuing to discuss things about OUR relationship was wrong. He is a school administrator who deals with crisis situations all the time and should have known better. Unless, as i suspect, he was truly involved emotionally with her. She says he was just a friend who was being nice and hearing her out...giving some comfort. I insist that a man with his experience and background would have logically suggested counseling or something appropriate if he was truly a friend. During one of my discussion (through email) with him he admitted that he was not acting in the best interest of my marriage and was, in his words, "shortsighted and naive". Perhaps I am reading too much into this. But, it seems a true friend would have pointed her toward help instead of continuing such discussions. Am I even close to the target with this thing?