Ok. I give up. It's all useless - she keeps lying to my face!!!

Let me back up a little...
A couple of month ago I found out that my wife was cheating on me with somebody who work in our company (we all work in the same building - I'm on 34th floor, they are on 21st). I found through a person I know who saw them kissing in the "water cooler" room. When I asked my wife directly she admitted everything and said that she was sorry.

We both agreed that our marriage was in a rut and we promised each other to work on it and try and stay together. I told her that I would do anything but I asked her for only 1 thing in return - No Contact: no face-2-face, no email, no phone, no fax, no pager/beeper/UPS... NO CONTACT. And she agreed completely, said she loved me very much and had no feeling for the other guy. And I believed...

Well, I started researching the Internet and found MB. I read a lot and started Plan A'ing like there is no tomorrow. She said she appreciated but it "still didn't feel right". I agreed and backed off a little. Everything was going well but I still had a feeling that she was lying to me for some reason. I was 99% percent sure that PA ended but EA was still going on.

Well, I believe I was right. Last night I walked in on the two of them talking (just talking, no touching) in the now "infamous" water cooler room. I blew up and told her that it was over between us and stormed out. By the time she came home, I was much calmer and she used that to her advantage. She told me that they "bumped" into each other in that room and were "just saying hellos". She knows that I love her more than anything and she used all her charm and I believed her. Again. What a f?!@?ng looser I am!!!!!

Yesterday I found out that she opened yet another email address to communicate with him. That would be email address number 11... Again, I'm about 90% sure that there is no sex (we're together almost all the time) but I'm 99.9% sure that EA is still alive.

This morning I woke up and realized that I don't believe her anymore. What do I do? Should I ask for divorce now?

P.S. the saddest thing is I still love her very much... and hate her at the same time - she ruined my life!!!

NoHope, you are wise to push for no contact. That is the key. By the way there is HOPE. First you need to consider exposing this A to a couple of key people. First would be OM's W or GF. Maybe your W's boss or OM's boss. EA and PA are just as damaging so don't make the mistake of differentiating. Both will keep your W's feelings for you from returning. You need to relentless in pushing for NC. But of course in non LB'ing way. Also try to keep up with Plan A and try to direct her to counseling. You mentioned when your tone softened after the water room incident she then charmed you into her way of thinking. Don't let that happen again. There is nothing here to negotiate she needs to end contact, perhaps change jobs and get into counseling with you. This all doesn't have to happen today but you have to steer it in this direction and you can't wait too long. I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice soon. Hang in there and consider speaking to you doctor for possible anti depressants if it gets too bad. Hang in there. Also please provide more info about age, kids, yrs married etc. It will help you get the right advice.

WOE

I give up. It's all useless
No, it’s not.

We both agreed that our marriage was in a rut and we promised each other to work on it and try and stay together. I told her that I would do anything but I asked her for only 1 thing in return - No Contact: no face-2-face, no email, no phone, no fax, no pager/beeper/UPS... NO CONTACT. And she agreed completely, said she loved me very much and had no feeling for the other guy. And I believed...
She’s caught in an affair. It’s usually very difficult to fess up to everything and also turn around and do the right thing (end it and have NOT contact). It’s like a drug (literally). It’s not being done intentionally to hurt you.

I read a lot and started Plan A'ing like there is no tomorrow. She said she appreciated but it "still didn't feel right".
She “appreciated” what?

I agreed and backed off a little.
“Backed off” what?
I’m guessing by the last two statements, you were not so much doing Plan A as you were “smothering” her with love.

Everything was going well but I still had a feeling that she was lying to me for some reason. I was 99% percent sure that PA ended but EA was still going on.
It’s not easy to quit either EA or PA.

This morning I woke up and realized that I don't believe her anymore. What do I do? Should I ask for divorce now?
Do you want a divorce?

P.S. the saddest thing is I still love her very much... and hate her at the same time - she ruined my life!!!
Your life is ruined? Completely?
Not really. You’re just hurt (a bunch) and feel like crapola.
Take a deep breath. Pause before you make any decisions or comments to her.

Have you read “Surviving An Affair”?
Read the links below.

walkingoneggs and Chris -CA123 - thanks for the reply. We're both in our early 30's. Married 2.6 years, no kids.

I asked her to quite her job but she didn't want to do it because of our financial situation. I feel that I can force her to quite but I'm afraid that that would create feelings of resentment on her part. Also, I'm afraid that I will have less control over the whole situation if she's alone at home or in another part of town. It's pathetic but I feel that the closer she's to me, the better chance I have of success.

Exposing the affair to his or her boss will put my future career here at risk as well. And at this point, since I don't really think we have a chance, I need to think about my future alone. And my job is a big part of it.

I was thinking about talking to her parents but decided against it because I'm not sure how she would react to that.

I think that deep down I know that I need to walk away now but I just can't... I guess I don't have the strength...

<small>[ April 26, 2004, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: NoHope ]</small>

Chris -CA123 - thanks for reply.

I do not want a divorce. But I think it will happen sooner or later. In this case, wouldn't sooner be better than later? Logically, the sooner I do it, the more chances I will have to go on with my life.

Exposing the affair to his or her boss will put my future career here at risk as well.
How would it affect your job?

And at this point, since I don't really think we have a chance,
Why do you think your mariagge doesn't have a chance?

Work on the job but not the marriage, eh?

I need to think about my future alone.
Why not think about a future with your wife?

I was thinking about talking to her parents but decided against it because I'm not sure how she would react to that.
Her parents ABSOLUTELY need to be told!
She will be pissed off bigtime.
So what? You are doing it to end the affair, not to piss her off. Yyou have stopped all lovebusters, correct?

Have you read “Surviving An Affair”?
Read the links below.

Chris -CA123,

Wow, that's a lot of anger. Why are you so pissed at me?
Yes, I want to protect myself. I don't want to be left alone and with no job. I have a mid-level management position with big possibilities. People here do not want to know anything about personal issues. I won't be fired for being cheated on, but I will never be promoted again. And since I do think that my wife will not stop cheating on me (with this guy or another) why should I put the remaining parts of my life in danger?

Nohope,

That's not anger, it's honesty. It's what our wayward spouses are running from.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, I want to protect myself. I don't want to be left alone and with no job. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You won't end up without a job, and you probably won't end up alone. If you don't begin to work on saving/restoring your marriage, you COULD end up without your wife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have a mid-level management position with big possibilities. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this more important than your M? If it is, than file and move on. A MB board classic line is: Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> People here do not want to know anything about personal issues. I won't be fired for being cheated on, but I will never be promoted again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A. Smart money says quite a few people know. If it happens at work, they know. I know from whence I speak......
B. I don't know your company specifically, I don't think it would truly prevent your being promoted. Might hold her back a little though... Ask my wife how her management interview went after her third PA with a coworker. (And she was way qualified to do the job.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And since I do think that my wife will not stop cheating on me (with this guy or another) why should I put the remaining parts of my life in danger?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Define danger. I suggest you take a few deep breaths and slow down. It is a very emotional time. We've been there. Start reading the stuff on the site. And Chris is right, read the book. You sound like you know business. This will help you look at the situation from a objective, "business-like" approach.

Hang in there,
Ethan

thefurnitureman - thanks for the post.

"business-like" approach... Sounds a little weird in this situation.. Should I calculate my "Return-On-Investment" and create a viable "business plan"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know I'm a little overwhelmed right now and may not be thinking straight. I'm just completely lost.

And I didn't mean to offend anybody with my "anger" comment. For some reason I'm feeling a huge amount of guilt and don't want to feel even more guilty...

Chris -CA123,

Wow, that's a lot of anger. Why are you so pissed at me?
Huh? Why wouyld you think I have any anger based on my previous post?
I asked some simple questions.
I'm not even remotely pissed at you.

Yes, I want to protect myself. I don't want to be left alone and with no job. I have a mid-level management position with big possibilities.
Does this mean you think you could not get a job somewhere else IF you absolutely had to?

People here do not want to know anything about personal issues.
Not a very friendly company, eh?

I won't be fired for being cheated on, but I will never be promoted again.
???
And you will do anything to work for them rather than save your marriage?

And since I do think that my wife will not stop cheating on me
Why do you think this?

No Hope,

There were many days that I felt like "cutting my losses" and leaving before my FWH could cause anymore damage to my self-esteem, trust, heart, bank account, life, etc... But now, seven months after D-Day, I can honestly say that I am so glad I stayed. I am so glad that I fought for my marriage and my H.

It took me months before I told anyone what was happening in my life and my marriage. I felt so guilty and so incabable!! But once I started talking to someone about the things that my H was doing & saying I finally got the support I needed. He convinced me so many times that I was just insecure and that he wasn't doing anything wrong!! His favorite line was "you are the only person I know who would have a problem with this". "This" included everything from going out after work until 10 or 11 with HER, to a $600 cell phone bill-all calls to HER, to simply not coming home one night because he needed to gather his thoughts and think things through!

With that said, the best thing I can think for you to do is to tell someone! Tell her family or mutual friends!!! Tell his wife/ gf/ boss!! She will be POed beyond belief!! You would be kidding yourself if you think otherwise! But once it is exposed you will be amazed at the support you will receieve!! It changed everything for me, when my H realized that his family was behind me...not him!! And that was long before I ever knew A existed.

Talk about feeling like a loser!! Even after 11 months with all of the signs and the terrible way he behaved, I still never once believed that he would actually have a PA. I was truly shocked and devastated the day he finally admitted it! So don't feel too bad! I think most of us here have felt like fools at some point in this process!

One thing I have learned is that I chose to stay
in the dark. Everyone else around me saw, I just refused to! Even his boss and other co-workers saw it and it eventually came down to him leaving or else he would be asked to leave.

I had my days of hopelessness and my days of bending over backwards to try to make him happy, but in the end it has all worked out.

One last thing thing you said that I found interesting was: "I'm afraid that I will have less control over the whole situation if she's alone at home or in another part of town."

Don't kid yourself about having control!! You don't! I thought I had total control! I always thought I knew where he was. He always told me where he was, who he was with, and what he was doing, and I believed it all! I felt "safe" because he said he was at lunch with some guys from work, but guess where he really was. You are only on control of you! Your words, your actions! That's it.

I will keep you in my thoughts today. I hope that you will have the strength to hang on until your wife returns to sanity!

Peace be in your heart,
6901

I know I'm a little overwhelmed right now and may not be thinking straight. I'm just completely lost.

And I didn't mean to offend anybody with my "anger" comment. For some reason I'm feeling a huge amount of guilt and don't want to feel even more guilty...
No offense taken.
I know all this is the bottom of the pits for ya' and it stinks to high Heaven.
It gets better, it gets worse
This is why I wrote, "Take a deep breath. Pause before you make any decisions or comments to her."

6901 and Chris -CA123 - thanks for the support.

Chris -CA123,

"And you will do anything to work for them rather than save your marriage"

Absolutly not! I would do/give anything/everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, to get my wife back: work, the house, friends... My dilemma is that I don't trust my wife anymore. At this point in time, I think that we will probably get divorced, if not now then later. All I'm trying to do is to have some sort of a "risk-mitigation" strategy. If we do get divorced, I think it would be better if I still had all those things I mentioned above. Where is the guarantee that when/if I give all those things up, she'll be with me again?!? Nobody can promise me that!

You're phrasing most of your questions as if it's a simple choice: pick "this" or pick your marriage. The sad truth is, it's not that simple anymore: I don't know that my marriage will survive even if I give up everything and "pick marriage" because it depends on two people involved, not one!

But you're definitely right about slowing down and taking a deep breath. I understand it but just can't seem to get a hold of myself.

6901,

Thanks for the support. May be you and the others are right about telling her family. I'll think about it.

<small>[ April 26, 2004, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: NoHope ]</small>

Also, I have a questions for all of you guys out there...

I'm thinking about installing a spyware on my home pc - I think most of the EA happens online. What do you think? Should I do it? If I decide to do it and get some evidence of the EA, should I confront her?

P.S. I always thought that if I ever wanted to spy on my wife, the marriage is over and therefor, there is no point in spying in the first place. Any ideas?

No Hope,
Installing Spyware on the PC will get you the answers you need ONLY if she uses that medium to conduct her Affair.
My spouse did not use a computer. Oh yeah... and I snooped..Played Mr. Detective, the whole nine yards.
My wife had a PO box. Had her freinds set up two addresses where she could get letters sent to her. Used pre-paid phone cards so as to not use our home phone.. I had Caller ID. Caller block.. on the phone *69 enabled.
It got to the point where I would take of work and show up at the house to see if she was where she was supposed to be.
I found out enough information alright...
What it did to me and for me are a whole lot of things. If your going to get the spyware , just be sure to prepare yourself mentally for what you might discover.
Also, if she does have a pre-paid phone card all you need is the PIN off the back of the card and without a court order they can provide you with the times the calls were made, how long they were, and the area codes that the calls originated from and went to.
Just one of the ways I caught my spouse. She could not deny that the calls were made as the OM is the only person she has ever known to live in that area code. She also wanted to know how I got so good at my detective work. Still to this day I never have revealed to her how I did it, like I have to you and the forum. I just had to remind her that everything is traceable, so don't make the mistake of thinking you can play me for a fool again.
Also, you could consider a voice activated recorder on your phone line. Install it under the house or in the Attic. There are so many ways to discover the truth without paying an expensive PI to do it. Hope this helped.
HumbleOne

Thanks, HumbleOne.

How did your wife react to the fact that she was spied on? Isn't that a big LB?

<small>[ April 26, 2004, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: NoHope ]</small>

Well ..yeah it was a Big LB. She was suprised and shocked that I had the information more than she was angry. But for the most part I had had enough deception. I was not going tolerate anymore. I had become her maid and babysitter, the one pretty much running the house inside and out. I had gotten to the point where I realized that I deserved better, I could survive on my own...heck I was already doing 95% of raising the family. Another factor that caused her not to react and rush to divorce was that the information (hardcopy originals) could cause her to lose her career.
I did NOT at anytime ever mention, or insinuate that I would use that to get her job, but that I would use it to ask for a jury trial in divorce to let my peers see that she was not a stable individual.
Another reason I snooped so much was I wanted to know the truth as hell would have to freeze over in order for her to tell me the truth. Once I knew what was going on I could then rationalize what to do, how to deal with it etc. It is hard to reamin clear headed when you do not know what yur dealing with.
Don't get me wrong, the things I discovered hurt really , really bad. The lies , deception, you name it. Lost a ton of weight as a result. Still on anti-depressants, but I am managing.
What are your plans now?

My dilemma is that I don't trust my wife anymore.
Right now you have no reason to trust her.

At this point in time, I think that we will probably get divorced, if not now then later.
Course you think this. It's a normal thought in this situation. This does not mean it is a reality though.

All I'm trying to do is to have some sort of a "risk-mitigation" plan.
I understand. I don't think you have to "give up everything" (or really anything) in order to make your marriage survive and thrive.
Optimist or pessimist?

Some scientists do an experiment with two little boys.
The first one they put in a room filled with toys.
The second one they put in a room filled with horse poop.

After a few hours, they check on them.

The first little boy is sitting in the middle of the room bawling his eyes out.
None of the toys have been touched at all.
They ask him, “What’s wrong? Why are you crying and why haven’t you played with any of the toys?”
He says, “If I play with them I might break them and I don’t want broken toys.”

They go and check on the second boy in the room filled with horse poop.
They open the door and they are amazed at what is going on.
The boy is throwing poop all over the place, hooting and hollering, laughing and giggling. He’s having the time of his life.
The scientists look at each other and ask him why he’s so happy.
He says, “Because with all this horse poop around, there HAS to be a pony around somewhere and I wanna ride it!”

If we do get divorced, I think it would be better if I still had all those things I mentioned above.
My questions is why do you think you will have to give them all (any) up?

But where is the guarantee that when/if I give all those things up, she'll be with me again?!?
What's your guarantee you will have a job tomorrow, regardless of your marriage?
Again, no one is even suggesting you will have to give up your job.

You're phrasing most of your questions as if it's a simple choice: pick "this" or pick your marriage. The sad truth is, it's not that simple anymore:
Yes, it IS that simple.
You have to pick one and fight for it. If you "sort of" put your mind to it, it will not get done.

I don't know that my marriage will survive even if I give up everything and "pick marriage" because it depends on two people involved, not one!
And right now, you are to only one who will get the ball rolling.

But you're definitely right about slowing down and taking a deep breath. I understand it but just can't seem to get a hold of myself.
Just keep at it.

No hope,

I am so sorry for what your wife is putting you through and hope you are able to use some of the suggestions from those who have posted here .. I have deeply regretted what I did to my husband while involved in the EA and daily thank God for another chance to make things right. I loved my husband during the time I got involved with the OM and I read at this forum in the hope I will one day understand what possessed me to get involved the way I did.. I'm so ashamed and guilty..but thankful that the withdrawals have passed.. It took awhile but I'm feeling better each day and the memories of the OM are fading.. Hoping one day the guilt feelings will fade.. Even saying that I know never will I forget how my husband was able to forgive me and let go of the anger so we could rebuild our marriage.. I'm so grateful for his love..

I wish you all the best...

humbleone,

I am curious as to what you were able to get off the phone card info.. just the area code or more? A friend of mine is going through this right now.. her husband has been acting suspicious and she suspects he uses a phone card when she is out of the house to call someone... she suspects an internet lover because he spends so much time on the computer and acts so strange when she comes up on him unexpectedly... I would be happy to pass the info you find on to her so she can find out for herself if thats possible..

Thanks in advance
Lmh

<small>[ April 26, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

lovemyhubby,

Thanks for posting here. I'm very interested in you side of the story - I would like to be able to understand my wife.

You said that you loved your husband "...during the time I got involved with the OM..." I'm not doubting your feeling but how is that possible? Did you love the OM? Did you ever tell the OM that you loved him? I'm sorry if it's getting too personal... it's just that's exactly what my wife told me: "I never stopped loving you". This concept is beyond me... May be that's the difference between male and female's minds..