LoveMy Hubby,
The phone card deal is simple, have her obtain the PIN on the back of the card. Then she gets the customer service number that the phone card requires you to call. As I said earlier the phone card company (in my case it was a Wal-Mart Bought ATT card) will only give you certain info without a court order. What they will give you if you have the PIN is the Times/dates the calls were initiated, from what area code they originated from,the destination area code, and the length of the call.
How that works is the Phone Card company is required to keep logs of all the calls made, A FCC regulation or something. The Phone card company does not know that YOU are not the owner of the card. Having posession of the Card PIN is good enough to prove you own it.Just call the customer service number and tell them you need to track the card usage, no more. They will not give the info over the Internet, got to speak with acustomer rep.
In my case, All I had to do was let the spouse know that I knew when and what time and how long her calls were and she was busted and she knew it. If a divorce ever comes about and Proof is needed the Phone card company could be forced by the court to provide the exact numbers that were called.
I would suggest to freind that she get a hold of the PIN for the Phone card(s). Realize that her husband could just go out and buy another one and she would be back to square one.
The reason it was a powerful tool for me was that she had no idea that the calls could be traced and I bet neither did the OM. Probably was him who suggested it in the first place.
The fact that I caught her really suprised her, she knew I was smart, but figured that I would not figure it out. Ya know make love to me in the evening then go to work and call the OM, I would be none the wiser right. What I learned from this site is that when a spouse is in the FOG , give them enough rope and well.. If she gets this info use it wisely, The more evidence the more impact it will have on Confrontation day. Besides, the more info you have the more the spouse will know that they are being watched.
Voice activated recorders hooked up to the phone line, Caller id Hidden elsewhere in the house. You name it, its out there and easy to get. If youhave any more questions I would be glad to help. This whole affair businees really blows.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
HO

Women can be very clever and conniving when it comes to hiding an affair. How could she be in the same building as you and still have an affair? That is mind boggling. As far as exposing the affair at work, they have already taken care of that. Did you talk to the guy? Is he married? You need to expose him. Your wife also needs to get away from him. Has she already requested reassignment? To be betrayed by the person you trust the most is perhaps the most devastating experience a person can have and it destroys your self steem.
By the way, whatever assumtions you have about the company, that may be just your perspective. I think most companies nowadays care about employee moral and go the extra mile to retain good and "loyal" employees. I am afraid that the issue with you is having to lose face with your coworkers that your wife has been playing behind your back. I would find out if that OM can be fired. You need to create a distance between him and your wife.

NoHope, I just had to respond to your comment that "most of the EA happens on line". Think that over. I know what you meant but not having access to a computer doesn't solve the EA does it? I have hung by my W for 2.5 years through an EA (following a PA)and it doesn't matter that she doesn't know how to turn a computer on. It doesn't matter if I threw her cell phone away etc. The EA happens in the heart, right? That's the goal you have to get back in her heart and push OM out. You do that by Plan A and sticking to a very deliberate and methodical plan as Chris is suggesting. There really is a tried and true formula here. Also don't quit too soon. You want to know that you did everything you possibly could to save your marriage regardless of the outcome. Face this head on and you will grow from the experience in a positive way no matter the outcome. Good luck.

Thank you all for your help.

I went ahead and installed a spyware last night. 1 hour after I installed it she logged in and sent him an email. In the email she asked him why he stopped communicating with her. She also told him that she loved him.

I couldn't sleep all night. Since the affair was uncovered, I've offered her to leave many times if she loved the OM and wanted to be with him. I even promised "no hard feelings" deal. She always said that she never felt anything for him and wanted to be with me. Why? The OM is single and available.

I forgot to tell you that I spoke with him right after I found out about the A and he promised me to end it. I also asked him for complete NC. This is why I think he backed off but my wife keeps pursuing him even now!

What does she want? What do I do? Do I show her the new evidence of their EA?!? I'm afraid that if I do, she will just get another email and will be more careful next time...

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: NoHope ]</small>

Somebody please respond! I'm now completely lost...

They exchanged a few more emails where they both said they loved each other... He's waiting for he to "not be married anymore".

What do I do next? Continue Plan A as if nothing's going on?!?

I don't think it's worth it anymore...

NoHope, you bring it to the attention of her family and perhaps a mutual friend. There are two forces at work here; her feelings for him need to dissapate and secondly you need to protect what feelings you have remaining for her. That's why you don't sit back and do nothing. Do what you can to end the A. Put lots of pressure on the situation. The OM may be single but I'm sure he has a family that might be interested to know he's involved with a married woman. Shake it up you have nothing to lose. I know this next part is very hard advice to accept but have zero consideration for your W's reaction right now. She's not thinking logically right now so you need to be the strong one.

walkingoneggs,

Thanks a lot for the advise.
It's kind of hard to swallow though...
If she's pissed at me, wouldn't that just push her to him even more?

If you take the car keys from a drunk friend, aren't they gonna get ticked off at you?

NoHope,
Here is an actual excerpt from an email my WW sent me. This was about 5 weeks post D-Day.

WW: I do want you to know that I also don't appreciate you telling everyone my personal business in detail.

"Everyone." I told her parents, and three sets of close, married friends, about our difficulties. This was to get help. She wasn't budging or returning back to the M after D-Day. (Still hasn't...) And "HER personal business." Our M apparently was not my business. Rrrrrriiiiigggghhhtttt.

Here's the bottom line about exposure. At some point you WILL have to tell the truth. Otherwise, you are enabling her behavior. If she says, yes I will NC the OM, and returns to the M, I still say you may want to get her/your family involved, so they can offer support.

Now if she doesn't, than expose. What's the other option. Let's say this goes all the way to a "D".

Q: "NoHope, what happened to you guys, why did you get a D?
A: "Ummm, no reason...I guess we just did"

WTFever. She will be pissed. She will get over it.

My .02,
Ethan

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: thefurnitureman ]</small>

I does make sense. I got nothing to loose anyway.

Should I tell her about the evidence I have first though?

First of all, make sure that you understand what you want, and how to get there.

If you wish to stay M, than MB is a good way to get there. Read the relevant parts about exposing an A on the main page. Make sure you have a fair understanding of the concepts (Plan A, Lovebusters, etc.)

Then confront, in a non-judgmental, non-angry way. I would also not offer your evidence or certainly not the means with which you gathered it. But do not expect honesty, from her at first. If she doesn't provide honesty don't get upset, it won't help.

Confront first, and then decide if/to what extent you will expose.

Do you have "Surviving an Affair" yet?

Good Luck,
Ethan

Hello,

This is just my opinion but I think it would be a good idea to see an attorney now to understand your options. Your wife continues to lie to you and continues to love the other man. She refuses no contact. What is the point if she continues to lie to you? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. By the way I hope you were checked out after you found out about PA.

It sounds like the reason your wife is still with you is because the OM has not committed totally to her yet and she wishes to retain the material benefits of a marriage with you until she is ready to leave. You need to protect yourself now and understand all of the legal implications. If she continues to lie to you and betray you then what is it that you really have? This is just my opinion and I wish you luck.

thefurnitureman

I can't decide what I want. I keep hoping that she's doing all of this because she's confused but I also realize that this is probably "wishful thinking" more than reality...

Nevertheless, I will try and do anything I can to save my marriage. I do want to confront her but I don't know how I can do that without revealing my sources.

Bryanp,

Thanks for replying. I already spoke with the lawyer. I'm not too worried about the financial aspects of the divorce.

"If she continues to lie to you and betray you then what is it that you really have?" ... just this horrible pain in the area where my heart used to be...

No Hope,
Just read your thread and wanted to respond.

First of all take the time to go to the link below and read it and print it. It is a post that I made giving a synopsis of a book called Tempted Women by C. Botwin. It'll help you understand what is going through your wife's "mind". It also will tell what most OM want out of the R. No surprises there.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=028052

There are also comments from 3 FWWs who post on MB: MrsX, KiwiJ and Lisa103

A few thoughts & questions:

Spying: All is fair in love and war. Although some states disagree so it may be illegal in your area. I would also suggest buying a voice activated recorder to attach to a phone line at home.Hopefully you have a spare working line that is behind the couch or hidden by a guest bed.

Why? emails are one thing bc you see some awfully hurtful words but the recorder can indicate the tone & emotions used to express those words. Tone is hard to deny. Radio Shack has them.

Even if you think that the affair (A) has been only conducted by e-mail or at work, you just never know. She may call him from home at night or weekends when you are out in errands or at the gym etc.

Confronting: Don't make the same mistake I did and confront too early. Try to be patient until they absolutely disclose the extent of the A. Be patient is nearly impossible in your current state of mind but try!

Anti-depressants (ADs): Speaking of state of mind. Another mistake I made was not listening to MB veterans who told me to get on AD's as soon as I felt depression coming on. I thought I could do it by myself. WRONG! Had I been on ADs early I may have been able to be more patient on the evidence collecting and wouldn't have gotten so anxious and upset when the confrontation did occurr.

Other Man (OM): Leave him alone. He ignored your request to back off. He will do nothing to help you with your M. Even more importantly, in your situation( all of you working for the same co) you could have a HR nightmare on your hands. He could make a claim that you physically threatened him or ecen attacked him.

OM II: Is he married? If not sure ask around and find out. It's important to know because when you have irrefutable proof you'll want to tell his W.

9 times out of 10 telling the OM's W kills the A for good. In the link you saw some bullit points on what the OM wants out of the A. He wants it to stay in certain boundaries. More than likely he wants your W to get divorced but he won't. Read the link for more.

Plan A: Start Plan Aing immediately. Exercise your butt off. Do it to the point were you're exhausted. It'll help you sleep. It'll also make you feel good about yourself. Force your self to eat. I lost 25lbs in 2 weeks.

Plan A also includes tryning to meet your W's needs even if she doesn't want you to. Any idea what EN's the OM is meeting? Most male BS here are providing the financial support but aren't terribly good at providing the emotional support. Again see thread for what OM provide to married women.

Will post more in awhile need to go....

cwmac

No Hope:

I'm back.

More on evidence & OMsW: The other reason you want a tape recording, concerns the OM's W. Unless he's just a complete "bird dog" she won't believe you at all. She'll either ignore you or she'll ask her H. He of course will do what all wayward spouses will do deny, deny & deny somemore.

He'll paint you as a jealous, insecure, low self-esteemed, babbling, idiot psycho. Since they work together he'll tell her that it is just a work related relationship and that you are jealous of it. If he is higher up in the co., he'll tell her that you are professionally jealous and that you are trying to hurt his career.

If you have a voice recording of them talking, it'll be nearly impossible for him to weasel out of it. He'll try though. He may say that it was a test, thought by your wife to see if you were spying on her. He'll definitely say that if you just have e-mails and she can't hear the emotion that goes with the words. They'll say anything.

Once you get the recorder give her some time to use it. You need to exercise for Plan A right?

Phone records: Another good place to look for evidence is the phone bills. Home phone as well as her cell. My W's cell was especially interesting. Do you have access to her bill? Some companies for cost cutting purposes have stopped putting the numbers called or the incoming call numbers on the bills. I think you can request them for a fee. If not v-mails at midnight or huge increases in call activity are still helpful to know

Voice mail: I heard a v-mail OM left on W's cell. It was the first time I heard the "loving" tone in his voice. Be careful, though. Since you work at the same co., you may be tempted to try and access her work v-mail but as I said before I'd stear clear of any spying or confronting that is work related.

Reading: Buy and start reading affair related as well as marriage improvement books. If you just buy the A related ones your WW will not be in the least bit interested in reading them even after the A is finally disclosed.

Good ones are :

"Surviving an Affair" by Harley
"His needs; her needs" by "
"Men are from Mars...Venus" by ?
"The Road Less Travelled" by ?
"Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass*

*this one is especially good if your wife's affair is currently just an EA and hasn't yet turned into a PA.

Emotional Affair: Harley's MB principles are great but I think he is a little vague on the definition of an EA. Glass has a very clear definition. She defines an EA as having all three of the following:

secrecy: Your wife and OM's relationship seems to have that. Lots of secret e-mails. Meetings in the stock room,etc.

intimacy: Sounds like the e-mails show proof of that. If not ask her what they talk about. Ask her whether she has discussed your M with him. She'll lie but maybe she'll comment to him on an e-mail.

sexual chemistry: Again I think the meeting in the stock room qualifies as showing evidence of that. Weren't they hugging? Can't remember now.

Physical Affair: How long has your W had a relationship with this guy? Timing is important. Has she had the oppurtunity to go to lunch with him? or has the fact that you work in the building precluded that? Is there any free time that she could have spent with the OM? Even if she has a weekly yoga class, she might be using that time to see him.

Any thoughts, answers, questions so far. I'm trying to give you alot of info so you don't make my mistakes.

cwmac

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

cwmac,

Wow, thanks for such a detailed post. I did help me understand some things.

Here is a short description of the situation.

They work on the same floor but not together, i.e. no common projects at all. They met about 2 month ago. Went to art galleries a few times and then started the PA (read below). The PA was going for about 1 week - I was out of town. He's not married nor is he dating anybody (besides my wife) as far as I know. I'm already checking home/cell phones and voice mails. Also, as I mentioned, after I spoke with him, he backed off. He didn't even respond to her emails for while. She got pissed and he explained to her that he still wanted her very much but didn't want to be involved in this situation.

This is a very "blue-blood" brokerage firm (Harvard MBAs and such) and he knows that I can hurt his career a little bit. I told him that I was considering talking to his superior. I think that the problem now is my wife: based on their emails, it looks like she's the one who's perusing him very aggressively. At the same time, she cries with me and says she's sorry for what she's done to me almost every day! This is why I'm still fighting for her: if she's lying when she tells me that she loves me more than anything, she should get the Oscar! Or I should have my IQ test results reduced by 100 points!

I'm pretty sure that at this point they only use email: I try to hang out on that floor as much as I can and he noticed that and mentioned that to her. He wouldn't even get water with her at the same time, which pisses my wife off.

I'm trying not to confront my wife with the evidence yet. I did speak with her very calmly and told her how much I loved her but I didn't want to share her with anybody else, emotionally or physically. I also tried to find out what EN he satisfied for her (i think art and museums - they went there when I was out).

I asked her a few times to either quite her job (she doesn't like it that much anyway) or at least ask her manager for a transfer to another floor. She doesn't want to do either: she wouldn't quite because of the money and she wouldn't ask the manager because she's afraid she would have to tell him the true reasons.

I think that my wife is very confused right now but I'm not sure I'll be able to help her clear things out before I blow up and get a divorce... She will understand everything sooner or later but it could be just too late for us.

What you need to believe is that your wife is not only a adultress but a manipulative liar. As long as she thinks that you are buying her story that she is being faithful she will continue to play this game. That is why you need to confront her with the evidence to show her that you know and that you are not going to stay married to her while she continues to commit adultery. In fact, I would make it clear to her that her actions have made you loose respect and complete trust in her and that it is going to be up to her earn back your trust. If not, you will be filing for divorce. IMO, only with truth will you save this marriage or get out of a marriage that holds no future.

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: yosh ]</small>

NoHope,
This board has all sorts of diferrent temperments. We have those that are posative that a marriage can be saved and we have the others. Yosh tends to just jump in occassionally to a new jr member with a doom and gloom statement that divorce is the only answer. He rarely posts a second time. Right Yosh? Bog on the other hand has more of a sense of humor to go with the poison.

You said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also tried to find out what EN he satisfied for her (i think art and museums - they went there when I was out).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you read about ENs up on the main page? Art & museum is in the recreation category. My guess is that it has more to do with what they talked about at the museums. He showed interest and communicated with her in a way that made her feel good. Also affection is usually high on a female's list. What needs were you not meeting? Same?
Earlier you said that your W couldn't easily quit due to the financial situation. Is she worried about $$. Does this guy make more?
How old are you and your W? I know you don't have chldren. How long married again? Sorry I forgot.

Single men are a little different animal than married men. My W's OM was married so I didn't pay much attention to the Single Men section of Tempted Women.

And you said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think that my wife is very confused right now but I'm not sure I'll be able to help her clear things out before I blow up and get a divorce... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sure that she is. She has attached emotionally to this guy but may also still be attached to you as well. Most married women experience some sense of guilt. They may try to hide it. They typically rationalize their relationship w/ OM by blaming you or your brhavior for their affair.

I know what my W's complaint was that helped her rationalize the R and A. It was A. What is yours?

While you may have contributed to the preA M issues, you certainly didn't force her into having th A. Don't let he pull that one on you.

How is PLan A going? How are you implementing it? Are you? Try not to have R talks every time you see your W. It gets old fast in her eyes.

Did you read the thread that was linked to my first response? Did it help you undewrstand what she may have been thinking?

Back later,

cwmac


It sounds as though your W either confessed or e-mailed him about their PA.

yosh and cwmac,

Thanks for your comments. I'm reading the other post and already have a lot of questions/comments. Will post in an hour or so.

Thanks!

NoHope

Sorry it took me awhile to get back to you but I was out of town for a few days. I wanted to answer your question pertaining to how even while I was involved with the OM I still loved my husband. In my case, I think getting involved in an EA was a way for me to deal with my depression.. I know I began to crave the excitement I felt when we were able to talk either online or phone, and it became very addictive.. Yes I did tell the OM I loved him and felt it too but I knew he could never take the place of my H and I was not looking for him to replace my husband anyway...in fact he loved his wife as well. It was really a crazy time..And I did love my husband through it all..very much..believe it or not.

The addiction made it hard to let go but finally one day I was able to find the strength.. It took awhile..previously we had tried letting go in fact a few times but each time the addictive nature of the A sucked us back in...The last time I ended things, the withdrawals were very intense and he wasnt accepting it, he kept trying to get me to talk to him, he kept leaving messages telling me how he loved and missed me.. but I ignored them until one day he realized it was really over, and they stopped. I was so grateful for the painful feelings to diminish for the OM and yet immediately after the guilt feelings began and the remorse has been difficult.. I still cannot believe I allowed myself to do this to my husband. It hurts me too so much to know I brought him such pain...but we are working together today and life is so much better today now that I am living the right life.. I plan to keep it that way.

I am sorry for your pain .. I know you are facing a difficult time but hope you will read and take the advice of so many here who have been through the same thing you have.. I do hope soon things will improve.. Are you in counseling yet? Have you recommended that your WW come to this forum and read the posts and the information here as well? Do you have a few of the books recommended? There is a way out of this.. Take care of yourself and please dont give up..I wish you the best..

Humbleone,
thanks for the info.. I will share it with my friend.. You would make a great private detective!.. I'm glad you were able to break through the lies and betrayal in your marriage and were able to get to the truth so you could also begin to work on things in your marriage..

best of luck to both of you,
Lmh