An update:

Last week my WH finally confessed that he did have a PA with the person I found out about. He claims that it was not very sexual and they only met when they traveled together for work, which was only about 5 times in the last two years. I find that hard to believe given the number of phone calls back and forth as well as some unaccounted for time, but what choice do I have now. He probably thinks that downplaying the whole thing will hurt me less - like anything could.

He still claims the letters he wrote were purely in his imagination and she never saw them, but I find that hard to believe as well. He references conversations they had so there is no way they are just in his imagination. Those letters may actually be the death of our marriage because they are so revealing about his feelings toward her and I am having a difficult time dealing with that - even without the lies.

He does seem to be remorseful and he claims that it was over in November after I found the phone bills. That may or may not be true, but he works with her every day and as far as I am concerned she is still a threat to our marriage. So today I told him that he will have to look for a new job if he wants to save this marriage. He seems agreeable, but I'm not sure that he thinks it is necessary. I just find it hard to believe that someone he once risked everything for and couldn't go a day without talking to is suddenly unimportant to him. He claims that now he just feels shame and sadness when he sees her and he avoids her as much as possible. Yet he is still gone for lunch everyday about an hour or so. How can I ever really be sure. He understands why I don't trust him, but he thinks I should focus on the positive to move on. What positive - this has changed my life forever!

He did finally order the credit card statements and I should have them next week. I do still think he has another bank account and I do still wonder if he has another phone. My fear is that if I move into "recovery" that he will just do it for a short time then go back to her. I have already told him that there is not room in our marriage for her and I will ask him to leave if I ever see signs of that, but he assures me it won't. Am I just being paranoid?

My feelings are still pretty painful, even though he finally stopped at least some of the lies, but I cannot let go of my hurt and anger. If anything, it makes me angrier to think of all the times he lied and cried about how I should believe that he never had an affair with that woman (shades of Clinton). How could he have done that for six months - especially if he had really ended it. Does it seem plausible that he would still be trying to pull the wool over my eyes because he knows that I'm almost to the point of leaving? He was literally less than a week away from me asking him to leave - I had a plan and a letter all written. Now I feel like I'm floundering in a sea of doubt about what is really happening here. Are we really in recovery? He says all of the right things and he is reading the book SAA. Is that a good start? Also, he says that he never stopped loving me and he loves and needs me more than anything. He has apologized for everything. Is he out of the fog that quickly????

He could be. Give it some time and see if he is seriously looking for another job. That will be the test. Don't listen to anything he says, watch what he does. Hang in there.

I seem to spend more time lurking than posting these days. I'm not even sure where I am at in the process yet because I still feel so much pain and I do not trust my WH.

My questions to some of the other survivors of this unimagineable pain:

1. When does the pain really start to subside? My WH thinks I should be improving now that he finally has told me the truth, but I'm still grieving. I found out in November but was lied to until about two weeks ago.

2. How can I ever trust this man again if he still works with her. He claims to have ended contact in November and he is accounting for most of his time. Also, he has avoided traveling in the past six months - he used to travel more frequently.

3. Is it possible that he was on the verge of ending this thing shortly before I found out and that is why there seems to be no withdrawal? Or is there no withdrawal because he still sees her 5 days a week - whether he talks to her or not I will never know?

4. He thinks that me telling him how I feel is counter-productive to the recovery process. I do not do this in an angry, disrespectful way so I thought it was okay to let him know how he hurt me. I also tell him that he needs to discuss his negative/positive feelings with me so we can move on. We have had these types of discussions maybe three times since he told me the truth. Am I unreasonable to expect that he should understand that I'm still trying to deal with this and it still hurts me terrible even if I have chosen to forgive him in the end?

4. Should I still be snooping?

No telling what is going on. But you probably should get some counseling, and one of them needs to quit and get another job.

Your WH is just like all of them, just wants you to get over it. That is hard to do until you have all of your questions answered truthfully, and they have NC at all - not even at work.

Believer - I don't know how you have hung in there for so long! You must be a very strong person. Plus, you are always there for the rest of us with support and advice - there is a special place in heaven for people like you:)

I realize that one of them needs to quit. Unfortunately for me, my WH is the breadwinner. My job is only peanuts and pays for daycare only. I went back to work part-time after my D was born just to get back in the work force and with the job market the way that it is, I see nothing in the near future.

My WH and I have talked about this issue many times and he is willing (so he says) to do anything I ask to prove that there is no contact. He even suggested a webcam in his office! Like his company would approve that anyway!!!! This is a survival job and he does claim that he will look for other jobs. Another problem is that their job (his and OWs) requires travel within the industry and to really have NC one of them would have to totally switch careers. That is unlikely. We have already established that they are both selfish people so who would give up their career?

spouseguess,
I have been reading your posts...and I am feeling your frustrations along with you, as are so many of us. Isn't it amazing to read how similar WS's are in their words and actions??? So much of what I have read on these boards, fits my H to a T. What in the world do these guys do...take a class in the proper way to have an A, how to act, etc.?
Anyway...my H always tries to make me feel badly for asking questions. He says that if I loved him, I could just move on and forget about it all.
Because he says," I am sorry", that should now be the end of it all. I do not even know what has happened exactly...but I am sure there is someone in my marriage besides my H and myself.
Try not to let your H throw you off guard, as he tries to take the focus off of himself for a while.
take care....Justinie97

Spouseguess,

While your H is looking for another job, he needs all the support he can rally in avoiding OW at work. I think you should ask him to speak to his boss (and her boss, if they don't report to the same person), admit the A, and request the support of their boss(es) in keeping them from traveling together or working on the same projects.

If OW is married, the two of you can write a NC letter together - there is an example in SAA - and mail it to OW *and her husband*. The trick would be ensuring she doesn't intercept it and throw it out before her H has an opportunity to read it. He deserves to know how bad things are so he can address the problems in his M.

Your H's desire to get over things quickly is very normal for a WS. He is feeling guilty, embarrassed, ashamed - he understandably wants this whole mess behind him and forgotten. However, it is not that easy. It takes a long time - months before the BS isn't totally jumpy and paranoid, and years before things are really secure and good again. I'm not saying it will be awful for years - it gets better and better *as long as you both work on the issues underlying the A*. If you ignore them and sweep them under the rug, neither of you improve and grow and you're just setting yourselves up to fail again.

You have a right *and a responsibility* to discuss your feelings with your H and ask him questions. I think you should be reading SAA with your H (one of you read aloud to the other, perhaps), taking time to discuss the points, answer the questions, fill out the questionnaires, etc.

There are some who say you shouldn't snoop but I personally think it's okay, for the following reasons:
1. Nothing should be secret in a M. Each should be an open book to the other.
2. Snooping helps you reassure yourself that things really are "over" and getting better.
3. Knowing you'll snoop helps your H stay on the straight and narrow.

Eventually you'll get tired of snooping and you'll realize that it takes too much energy - energy you'd rather be putting into building the M instead of worrying about it. Plus you'll realize that if your H *really* wanted to hide things, he could get a secret cellphone or calling card or email account. It just becomes not worth it after a while. But hey, I'm 2 years post Dday and I still snoop occasionally (every 3-4 months maybe).

Hi SG!

I know it is a tough pill to swallow. And when the words came out, I am sure you did not want to believe it. But somewhat a relief to think that you were not crazy!
I am sorry if I sounded so harsh a while ago. But I wanted you to see the reality of this. Because we are so in love, that it blinds us to think that they could actually hurt us in that way!. Of course we want to believe our spouse.

If you ever want to talk, please let me know. YOU NEED to get counseling because I will tell you, you think right now you will be OK. Wrong! It will get worse. BS's go through a fog too. But when you come out...it slams you and your world as you used to know abandon's you. I feel so much for you and I was so sick to see you go through that denial. OK nuff of my rambling.

Let me know if you need to talk.

Ali <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
{hug}

Justinie97 - Your right - there must be a book out there for WS's because they all seem to have the same traits! I wish that I could help you in your situation, but only you H can tell you what is going on for sure. I know what you mean about there is someone else in this marriage. My WH says not anymore, but her shadow still haunts me and will for a long time.

Turtlehead - Thanks for the advice. We are reading SAA and we are planning an overnight getaway to work on a real recovery plan. Can't seem to find time with two kids, baseball games/practice, family functions (where no one knows the h*ll I am living in now), traveling, and whatever. We try to work on it at night, but we are both so tired at the end of the day that it is hard. He IS trying though.

Ali88 - Glad to see that you didn't fall off the face of the earth. You missed the big announcement of mine, but I see you caught up. It DID still hurt when he finally said it, althought technically I have known since November. If anything the grieving this time is worse because I am no longer distracting myself with "finding out" everything I can to prove it. Know what I mean???? I've never felt so lost and devastated about anything in my life. I know it will get better, but still tough to deal with - as you know. Sometimes I feel like I will choke on the pain or the anger (depends on the day).

I would very much like to talk to you, but I have a problem. You see, I have seen enough of your posts to figure out that you live in a large city in the Midwest (correct?). The problem is that I live nearby and my H travels to that city frequently. In fact, he had all of his sexual liasons with that wonderful OW there (or so he says). I did get my hotmail account fixed if you want to email me and that is at Spouseguess@hotmail.com. If you email me I will at least give you my first name. It isn't that I think anything bad, but I'm scared of too many people knowing at this point. Can you understand that? Heck, I'm scared of the OWs H knowing right now - although I think he has every right.

Why are you scared of OW's H knowing?
Harley recommends exposure! They will have a hard time getting together again if they know you and OW's H are comparing notes.

You don't expose out of a desire to get even. It's not a spiteful thing. It's to inform other people affected by the A, and to ask their support in helping you and your H restore your M.

Turtlehead - Because I do not know this man and I do not want my kids exposed to any potential angry outbursts. Also, believe it or not but my WH seems to be suffering from a lot of stress and I wonder if he could handle dealing with me and the OWs H right now? Those two things are what keep me from telling him. Pretty selfish, huh? Also, he must be really clueless about all of this and I wonder what purpose it would serve for him to hear it from me??? She does not seem to be in any way remorseful about her role in all of this, as far as I can tell, so is my not telling really hurting her marriage more at this point?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because I do not know this man and I do not want my kids exposed to any potential angry outbursts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you're not contemplating taking your kids to OW's house and exposing in front of them, are you? I'm not clear on why you think an angry outburst from OW's H would affect your children.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, believe it or not but my WH seems to be suffering from a lot of stress and I wonder if he could handle dealing with me and the OWs H right now?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He created his own stress. Why would you enable the A in this way? If he doesn't like the stress he can do something to eliminate it. Note that this will most likely be getting rid of OW but it could in the short term be moving out away from you and the kids. You may not be willing to take that chance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder what purpose it would serve for him to hear it from me??? She does not seem to be in any way remorseful about her role in all of this, as far as I can tell, so is my not telling really hurting her marriage more at this point? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your not telling is keeping OW's H in the dark. He deserves to know of his wife's behavior so that he may choose whether or not he wishes to remain M to her, and so that he knows how bad things are in the M. Most people won't put forth the effort required to fix marital problems unless they are whacked over the head pretty hard (an A sure does that).

It isn't that your telling (or not) helps (or hurts) their M. It just puts the OW's H in the know so he can decide to properly address the problems in his M, or leave.

Plus he'll be keeping an eye on his W and you'll be keeping an eye on your H... it will make it more difficult for the A to continue or rekindle after NC is achieved.