Hello all

For those of you who want to know the story, you can read it in my previous post, it's long, sorry. In short, my wife had a very long affair with a married man that she refuses to admit to.

I've read several things and one question seems to reoccur: Are you better off with, or without, the person?

My question to everyone here, is what is your definition of "Better"? Are we talking financial? Emotional? In my case, we both make a good living, so neither of us is dependent on the other for a living. Which leaves me to emotional. How can I determine if I'm better off emotionally with, or without, her, if I'm still trying to 'deal' with this affair? I'm on a rollercoaster and don't feel I can make that decision at this moment in time.

I do know that when she is away from the house, the atmosphere is totally different, more relaxed, less stressful (well, Duh, right?)

So, my question is what do you all consider Better?

Thanks

John,

Let me ask you a few questions.

Does she want to be married to you?
If so why? If not why not?

What have you gotten or get from this marriage that you would miss?

What would you like to recieve in a marriage?

What would a good and happy marriage be like?

Is there a chance that your W could be the kind of woman that could make you happy?

Finally, I must comment. I read your story the other day, and the only thing that came to my mind is that she was having an affair alright, it was with her work and her ego. The OM may or may not be important, but My guess is that he was convenient as he worked with her. Her real affair is her work and the stroking of her ego.

Just a thought.

However, if I am even close to right, is there any chance of her affair with her work ending? If not, then I think you need to reevaluate what you might expect from her.

God Bless,

JL

A couple of times since I moved out of the desecrated marital home, TBXW and I talked about whether or not we could try again.

Each time, I kept coming back to the pro/con issue. There were, and still are, lots of reasons to NOT try again -- don't trust her anymore, she'd probably cheat again, etc.

The reasons to try again never seemed very inspiring. One was that the kids shouldn't live in a broken home. (But isn't a broken home better than one where the parents are unhappy with each other?) Another was purely financial; she makes more money than I do. (But money is her idol, not so much mine, so why is that really important?) Another was residual territoriality (though I usually just had to remind myself that, even when she was "with me", she never really was with me). Do I still love her? Sure. But it's a different sort of love, and definitely not remotely what it once was. Indifference is the stronger emotion now.

So, long term, I think I'm better of without her, and with somebody else. Somebody who loves and values me for who I am, not for who they want me to change into. Since I moved out I've met women like that, so I know that I'll find the right one, in time.

Hello,

Of course this is a question that only you can answer. Your wife has had a very long term affair with a married man and she still refuses to be honest with you about it. The question you would need to ask is why would you wish to be in a marriage with a partner who has cheated on you for such a long time? How can you possibly recover without honesty and remorse from your spouse. I would think that it would be very painful for you to think of your anniversaries and your marriage having to share your wife for so many years with someone else.
Only through honesty and sincere remorse from your partner can you hope to recover. If your spouse continues to deny the truth then she is giving you a clear message that she continues to disrespect you and her committment to you. I would therefore think that the answer to your question would be obvious. I wish you luck.

I kept thinking I'd be better off without FWS. But we have a daughter and I realized that I would have to work just as hard to stay friends if we got a divorce as working on our M, so I gave our M a chance. Recovery isn't easy, but I'm surprised how well we are doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RD1 wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The reasons to try again never seemed very inspiring. One was that the kids shouldn't live in a broken home. (But isn't a broken home better than one where the parents are unhappy with each other?) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, no, it's not. A marriage where the parents are unhappy with each other IS better for the kids than one where the parents split. But that is really beside the point. Those are not the only two options. How about option C: Mom and Dad married to each other and happy about it. I understand that seems impossible to you at the moment, but look at us: I wasn't just indifferent. I wished my wife dead, so I would be free of our marraige. That was BEFORE she told me about the affair. We now have a really good marriage, FAR better than ever before (I mean, in a lot of ways last week was better than our honeymoon - and last week wasn't a particularly good week). Plus it is still improving.

Was that transformation easy? No. It was so painful that about the only thing I could think of that would be worse is divorce. And you know those women who appreciate you for who you are - if you marry them, they will eventually come to see the qualities they appreciate now as irritants, just like your wife did - because YOU do not know how to prevent that from happening. And if you are going to have to go through that painful learning process anyway in order to eventually have a good marriage, why not learn it with the mother of your children?

RD1, I'd like to add a couple of things:

I would like to address the "fundamental incompatibility" issue you spoke about in an earlier post. My wife is a type A, I am laid back. It can work, if each of you see those qualities as strengths. I want to tell you a (true) story about a couple that was so incompatible that they went to a minister of their religion who also did counseling, and basicaly asked for his blessing to divorce. As they were describing how they were different, he began to have trouble suppressing a smile. I'm not sure he laughed out loud, but at aome point they noticed that his attitude was somewhat incongruous with the seriousness of their problems, and they asked him why he was smiling. His answer was: "Don't you see that God has brought you together because of how perfectly you complement one another?" When I told that story to a friend of mine who is an marriage counselor, he said that in the same vein, he frequently sees men who are very romantic and who complain because there wives are not. When this happens, he thinks "Do you know how many women would KILL to have a husband like you?" - but they always seem to pick women who are not typical. My wife and I are also not very typical. Dr. Harley's 10 emotional needs are split between the five that women typically have and the five that men typically have. My wife and I both have 2 needs in our top 5 that are typical of the other sex. But guess what? Do you think we have common needs now with only one difference? Of course not! We sort of swapped, so there is only 1 EN on Harley's list that we have in common. I have become convinced that this is a good thing. It adds a richness to both of our lives that we would miss if we married someone too much like us. Gary Smalley has done a series of marriage videos that we went through at church that spends quite a bit of time on the topic of "Honoring Each Other's Differences", in part because this is such a common problem. Harley does not address "Honor" as a separate issue, but I would say the three legs of his program - Care, Protection, and the POJA, are all built on honoring the other person, though Harley may call it "Respect". I have heard that Harley's mother was EXTREMELY left, politically (think "Communist"), and his father was a EXTREMELY right (think "John Birch Society"), and they managed to have a great marriage. If his method is based on what he saw growing up, maybe that is why it works.

Secondly, I did not have to "become someone that I am not" to make the kinds of changes I needed to make to have a great marriage with my wife. I DID need to learn some new skills, however, and Harley and Smalley both helped in that regard. But the fact was my wife never told me what she needed efore her affair in part because she thought I: "...just wasn't the kind of person who could give those things to her", but had other good qualities that she admired and made for a good husband. That was a crock, and a lie straight from the mouth of Hell. She now says I meet the EN's that the OM met for her far better than he ever did or could. Duh! I know what they are now! She's being honest with me now! She never was honest with either of us or herself before DDay. If your wife has reached the point where she can learn to be honest and if YOU are willing to be honest as well, you can have a great marriage, if you do the work.

You who have travelled my path before me have a great deal of wisdom and insight. Thank you for sharing. Although from different viewpoints, your testimonies make your responses all the more enlighting. There is one thing that can not change, and that is the truth. The truth is the truth. My wife has had an affair with her work/ego, for years I've said that her job was her "hot button". Never looked at it as an affair before, but, it most definately is.
Thank you all.

Great point Ibc, short but deep:
I kept thinking I'd be better off without FWS. But we have a daughter and I realized that I would have to work just as hard to stay friends if we got a divorce as working on our M, so I gave our M a chance. Recovery isn't easy, but I'm surprised how well we are doing.

Now you have that ping pong ball in my head bouncing back to the maybe we can work it out side. I emailed it to my WW. Doubt it will make her much difference, she is in DEEP withdrawal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, no, it's not. A marriage where the parents are unhappy with each other IS better for the kids than one where the parents split. But that is really beside the point. Those are not the only two options. How about option C: Mom and Dad married to each other and happy about it. I understand that seems impossible to you at the moment, but look at us: I wasn't just indifferent. I wished my wife dead, so I would be free of our marraige. That was BEFORE she told me about the affair. We now have a really good marriage, FAR better than ever before (I mean, in a lot of ways last week was better than our honeymoon - and last week wasn't a particularly good week). Plus it is still improving.

Was that transformation easy? No. It was so painful that about the only thing I could think of that would be worse is divorce. And you know those women who appreciate you for who you are - if you marry them, they will eventually come to see the qualities they appreciate now as irritants, just like your wife did - because YOU do not know how to prevent that from happening. And if you are going to have to go through that painful learning process anyway in order to eventually have a good marriage, why not learn it with the mother of your children?

--------------------
Me: BS-45, FWW-43
D16, S14, S9, D born 10/8/03
A 10/98-10/01, DDay 10/03/01
In Recovery
"Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind" Romans 12:2
The Path to Recovery: Johnh39's complement to WAT's quick-start guidelines
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">John.....I LOVED your response here! On my best day I could not have said it better!! THANKS!!! Atruheart