Please refer to previous post.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=004369


My question is how and why you expose the affair?

<small>[ May 12, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: toofedup ]</small>

You expose the affair to end the affair.
As long as the affair continues, your marriage will NOT get ANY better (in fact, it will continue to get worse).

How? Tell everyone that your h is having an affair with (whomever).
You dont do it in a mean way, just matter of fact. And you let everyonme know that you are trying to ave your marriage but it cannot be done as long as the affair continues.

Yeah, what Chris said. And, if you are not exposing to end it, you are basically condoning it.

Affairs thrive on secrecy. Bringing them to the light of day, typically is the beginning of the end of the affair.

Lastly, the spouse of the "other person" should be the first one told. They have a right to know, and it will make both affair partners closely watched by their respective spouses, making the contact between them much more difficult. EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE. I didn't and I regret it to this day!

SD

REASON number 1: Expousure ends affairs, by ruining secrecy, injecting conflict and bringing about moral scrutiny and accountability of the partners.

*affairs need secrecy....when you keep it secret, you become a third party in an affair...an enabler.

*exposing affairs brings the censure of the WS's peers and family in such a way that can help them rethink their actions and reawaken their morality....afterall...if all of us were video taped our whole lives...how many would act immorally if everyone would immediately know?

*because affairs work like addictions, telling the other spouse (as well as others) ensures that the A has pressure on both ends and other sources, to stop. When BOTH marriages have accountability...contact becomes twice as difficult to resume. The results of resuming an affair are so devastating, that it's a necessary pain.

*Without the other spouse knowing, and with secrecy intact, no accountability....what's to keep the OP from repeating this with someone else? Don't assume that this is a one time thing. Or that there is no possibility that it could happen again. When you keep this information from the people directly involved, you set those people up for a repetition of it. No accountability=vulnerability.

*The other spouse deserves the option of being tested for STDs since her mate has been unfaithful.

*The other spouse deserves the option of repairing their marriage knowing what condition it is in. How can they change, meet their spouse's needs, understand the vulnerability without knowing the facts? My husband's affairs are one reason I have become the wife that I am. I have faced these demons and changed myself and my marriage so that we don't repeat the same mistakes. Honesty saves marriages...not lies. Lies undermine the very foundation of marriage...in fact, marriages can survive affairs...but not dishonesty. The stronger the other marriage....the less risk of re-contact.

*growth is painful. Learning that actions have consequences is what shapes our futures and gives us the opportunity to grow. If an OP walks away from this with just happy memories...what does he learn? He learns that he can have affairs with no accountability. He learns that he can lie without consequence. He learns that some how he is outside of the rules. How good of a husband/wife do you suppose that will make him?

<small>[ May 12, 2004, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Exposing the A hasn't stopped it yet in my case, still going strong, but its only been about a month since exposure started. WW is using separation and oncoming DV-Day as justification. Exposure did help me feel better and freaked WW out a little. I continue if I can find anyone that dosen't already know and would do it the same way all over again.

Great replies from all, so far. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Good job, Chris, Shattered, Star, and Jeff. I was especially intrigued by your personal accounts, Shattered & Jeff.

I just wanted to add that when you expose the affair to someone (there are form letters available), in addition to what Chris said about telling the person to whom you are revealing the affair that you are trying to save your marriage, request that person's help in turning your WS back to the marriage.

Too~, you have a great opportunity to restore your marriage here, hopefully before any PA has begun. This is the best time to take it back.

I know you are doubting your original hunch to expose, but you were right on the money. I think this shows an incredible possibility to end the EA this way.

Besides, as Star pointed out, do you want to be part-and-parcel to this sordid event and/or its continuation even if your marriage survives?

Regina

<small>[ May 14, 2004, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: ReginaSYMC ]</small>

Too~

What things are you feeling as you think about exposing the affair? I'm sure it's scary to think about. Do you mind sharing your concerns?

Regina

How much are we talking about? I mean, I don't think you should announce it to the world like her employer, church, family and friends. In my humble opinion, I think that's just the Betrayed Spouse wanting to get revenge. What purpose would it serve really? Nothing but more hate, anger, and trouble in my opinion.

I say exposure should stop only amongst the those involved and directly connected to the affair and relationship.

Deal with the hurt and anger another way. Any way but that. People who announce the affair to the world to belittle the other woman/man just look silly themselves I think. Get your revenge by taking the higher, more dignified route and live your life the best way you can in the most respectable and honorable way possible.

Again - just my opinion.

Hello,

Hikchik:
You expose the affair to put pressure on the two involved. Certainly, the spouse of the OP should be informed. Friends, family? It depends. If you think these people will help you to try to get your WS to clearly think about what they are doing, it may be the thing to do. There are risks with exposure. I remember one story where exposure was disasterous. The WS became so upset about his family being told that he never spoke directly to his spouse again. He couldn't deal with his wife's betrayal (huh?) Anyway, they divorced . . . very ugly situation. Who knows, they may have divorced anyway. I do think such sever reactions are not the norm though. The WS usually gets mad . . . but they get over it. Especially when they realize exposure wasn't done to humiliate, but to help bring the affair to an end.

<small>[ May 14, 2004, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

Exposure is not about revenge. At least not from this perspective of advisement.

Exposure is embarrassing to ALL involved, even the outside hearers, if they truly care.

Exposure IS all about ending the affair in the quickest, most effective way possible.

Secrecy and lies are the fuel for affairs. Their taboo nature fans the flames. When it's revealed, it takes a bit of the suspense out, and real life invades rather quickly. They usually fizzle out when that impending doom is removed because the doom is at hand.

Who to tell? That does depend. You would not want to tell someone who will take advantage of the situation and hurt the marriage or the people involved more than is reasonable (say financially, or to get their own pound of flesh).

Hurt is one thing; harm is another.

In the situation of a budding affair, it may be useful only to tell the spouse, but if the affair ignites, it may be necessary to tell more people, to enlist their help in turning the WS back to the marriage.

If left alone, the affair most certainly will develop. Not a good situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

BTW, I would not advise a BS to use the exposure as a trump card. That is dishonest and manipulative.

Regina

If they want to get select people involved - fine. But I just don't agree on forcing the end of an affair through humilation. WOuldn't that just foster resentment and fuel the reasons that may have caused them to seek something outside the marriage in the first place?

Sorry - I just don't agree with public humiliation, no matter what the person has done. It won't come off as you trying to get support from the community, entire congregation and friends - I think you just look angry, pissed as hell and like you want to humilaite them. That's it.

So if you do it anyway and it ends - great. What are you left with? More resentment, more lack of respect and trust. If you're trying to salvage the relationship - I think you're doing more damage than good.

Too,
I'm going to put my two cents in. Hope you don't mind.

First: You never tell the children unless they have been exposed to it in some manner (seen or heard something specific ie Mommy having Uncle So&So over and being naked in the jacuzzi)

Second: Yes you want to end the Affair but I would expose in outward concentric circles. Meaning I'd start with the OP's S first. Doesn't end I'd tell WS's parents. Doesn't stop tell the next group ie WS's siblings. So on, so on & so on. I wouldn't tell anyone that isn't very close to the WS. Maybe a good friend, a pastor/priest/rabbi. Depends on each individual situation IMHO.

Third: You need to be careful what you tell employers. Unless the two AP's work together, I wouldn't. If your S is a supervisor over the OP, they may find themselves unemployed. Yeah the affair may end but you and your children have either no or less financial support.

I might consider it in extreme cases. The WS would need to be the secondary income earner (especially if the family doesn't depend on that income to pay for basics ie food, house/rent etc) If the income is discretionary I'd consider it.

The reason I wouldn't tell the "world" is that you may find that as time goes on and the marriage starts to heal you'll start to focus more on the anger that you've pushed aside for all of those Plan A months. I believe that the BS's feelings of humiliation and shame are magnified by each additional person told about the A. FWS will also have feelings of shame as well once they come around.

JMHO,

cwmac

Hikchik,

Obviously we are not on the same page. Or maybe we are on the same page but in different paragraphs.

Whatever is the case, there is a point at which we stop communicating. That is okay.

I'm just stating this because I stand by what I said and don't want it to seem I've backed off my view, but think it would be more harmful trying to get my point across.

Whatever our opinions, it's up to Too~ to decide what she wants to do, and it is she that must live with the consequences. She knows her situation better than we do.

Regina

hikchik,

Well here's what Dr. Harley says right on his radio show "put it on the evening news!". Being new here....you haven't seen this play out very much. There is no doubt that alot of this stuff is definitely counter-intuitive. Many of these strategies go completely against what we believe ought to be true....but since marriages are impossible to recover while affairs are ongoing....ending the affair as sticky and icky as that may occasionally be...is tantamount.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If they want to get select people involved - fine. But I just don't agree on forcing the end of an affair through humilation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think an ongoing affair is pretty humiliating for the BS too...don't you think? Besides, exposure is NOT about humiliation. It's about destroying secrecy (which affairs thrive on) and getting help from folks who can influence a fogged spouse to reassess his actions and do the right thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WOuldn't that just foster resentment and fuel the reasons that may have caused them to seek something outside the marriage in the first place?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually....no. When exposure is done properly, it is done with love and commitment to the marriage. It is not a vindictive or vengeful act...and should never be done with anger. Sure the WS will resent it....afterall, he'd prefer to keep his secret fantasy intact...but that won't help the marriage. And by keeping the secrecy for the WS, the betrayed spouse becomes an unwilling participant and enables the affair to continue. Protecting the reputation of the WS is not worth the disolution of the marriage or losing a parent to children. It is a heavy price to pay....but one of the natural consequences of choosing to have an affair. There must be a balance between the needs of both the WS and the BS. When the BS confronts the WS about the affair and asks for NC....IF the WS refuses to end contact...is the time for exposure. It is only necessary IF the WS decides not to end it on their own.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry - I just don't agree with public humiliation, no matter what the person has done. It won't come off as you trying to get support from the community, entire congregation and friends - I think you just look angry, pissed as hell and like you want to humilaite them. That's it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Done badly, it can look like all of those things. Done well....it is by far the most powerful tool to end affairs....and is not percieved by the WS or others as vindictive. Having been through this process with hundreds of couples, I can tell you that the incidence of it backfiring are relatively low.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So if you do it anyway and it ends - great. What are you left with? More resentment, more lack of respect and trust.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are really off base here...because I have seen what is left. And it isn't anything like you describe. What is left, is the affairs ends...the fog clears....and the WS for the first time since the affair began begins to see his actions more clearly. Whatever resentment he initially feels quickly begins to fade as his moral conscience returns and the life he was willing to sacrifice comes back into focus. Actions have consequences....and because affairs work very much like addictions....if there are no consequences...usually there is no change. One of the natural consequences of having an affair is that the truth almost always surfaces down the line....but leaving that to happen naturally often means that the affair is so entrenched that rebuilding the marriage is impossible...too much hurt and pain to the WS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you're trying to salvage the relationship - I think you're doing more damage than good.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honesty doesn't destroy relationships....lies do. The concepts on this website are here because they work and have been developed over 30 years of helping couples fight infidelity and save their marriages. If what you said were true...and those were indeed the results of exposure...it wouldn't be included in what the good doctor recommends. But don't take my word for it....listen to his radio show.

I edited my post above, but time ran out for the edit. Then, I read Star's post and thought about how much it sounded like mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I was encouraged to post it. Here it is:

~~~
Affairs are humiliating things. Everything about them is humiliating, especially to the BS (the WSs usually are surrounded by a thick cushion of fog. Sex-only affairs are easier to end than emotional affairs, especially EAs that have turned into PAs. A WS can vacillate between the OP and the BS endlessly because of the addictive nature of affairs.

Chances are, when all is said and done, a lot more people than anyone wanted to know will know about an affair, with or without the BS telling it. Jilted lovers often run their mouths, so BS's and OP's alike can spread the gossip. It's better if the BS can send a message to those that are friends of the marriage and ask for their help in guiding the marriage back to health. The OP's BS may be such a friend, because this person is also a victim of an affair.

It begins with confronting the affair partners with the truth and solid evidence (as solid as one can get). The OP's BS should also be told, so that person can begin making decisions about his part in his own marriage.

If this doesn't rock the infidelity boat, it may be necessary to get help elsewhere. Help, I say. This is not putting it in the newspaper to shame the affair partners into straightening up. This is about support for marriage and healing.

And in many communities, like the one where I grew up, everyone knows about it anyway, except for the BS. Now, we're talking about humiliation. No one wants to say anything because...*shrug* I don't know why. When the BS finds out that EVERYONE ELSE knew and NO ONE said anything... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That person may feel betrayed by all around him or her. But sometimes, once the word is out, the friends and neighbors that were stone silent will give the BS tips about the contact or whereabouts of the WS and OP.

It is not the BS that is doing the humiliating, but the choices of the WS that is humiliating. I know if I had to request someone's help to save my marriage, I would be mortified all the while asking. It's not a prideful experience for many BSs.

BSs need support. A broken marriage needs support, sometimes from the outside.

Still, it IS a personal choice. I just hope that the choice made will not perpetuate the affair or the pain of the affair to the point where the BS finds him or herself in a deep depression of grief with no love left for the WS.

Regina

Actually, I don't think we're that far off from you guys - I'm just saying that there's a wrong way and a right way to broadcast it. I'm probably just not expressing it the best way.

I totally understand the importance of uncovering the affair and getting it into the open. I truly get that, but if you're doing it for revenge to spite the WS or the OW or OM - that will come across as that - revenge. And to me that's the wrong reasons for exposing. If you're trying to save your relationship, then fine - expose it, but to do it in a manner that's humiliating to an individual - then you're love busting - aren't you? Or do you have to love bust in order to build up the love bank? I don't know. I'm just beginning to learn all about this, so bare (bear?) with me as I figure this out.

Personally, when I found out my fiance was unfaithful, I told immediate family, my current employers and friends. He told his family, boss, some co-workers and friends - and I've discussed it with his family and friends as well. The rumor mill took care of notifying the rest, but we did not broadcast it in a great way outside of our immediate circle. For example, I did not tell my new co-workers or extended family. To me it only serves as entertainment and gossip. More than likely, very few if any of them would have offered any real support. For us, just telling our immediate circle and verbalizing it publically only to them, was enough exposure for us and gave us the "outting" that was needed for us to address this and not hide from it. Believe me, there is no hiding from this issue with us. Those were the most important people in our lives and they are most definitely holding us to what we need to do to salvage this relationship or move on from it. Their words, support, judgement, criticism, (we get a good healthy mix)was and is quite enough for us to face this for what it is and truthfully. We certainly aren't hiding from this and knowledge of his affair is certainly out there that we have to "own it". There is no running from this or denying it.

I guess everyone's "circle" is different. If it means you have to tell the whole congregation, neighborhood, and office - fine. I just think you both as a couple need to determine that for yourself and make sure you do it for the right reasons and not just for revenge.

Hikchik,

Thank you for clarifying. I agree that "revenge" is the wrong reason.

I'm glad you shared your approach to your situation and am glad that you are on the road to recovery (or are you there?).

I think there is a point at which revealing the affair is unacceptable (like years after, done in order to gossip and not to help someone with confidence).

But, just as one spouse may need to seek help to recover from an affair here at MB may be considered independent behavior if the other spouse is unenthusiastic, it isn't independent behavior if the poster is seeking help to deal with the WSs affair because the covenant is breached until recovery. I think there are still things a BS can do that would be considered independent behavior, even while seeking help to deal with an A and can damage chances for reconciliation.

Regina G

This may be taking us off you're original question, but I agree with your last comment. A couple can not recover if one is going out on their own doing independent work unless it's wholey supported by and works for the other.

We've learned that ourselves. We are working on our recovery right now. He was the one that actually told me about this website. He has read some of the articles here and had started to practice a lot of things that Harley teaches about building up the love bank, emotional needs, etc., but it wasn't clear with me that it was what he was doing. It was confusing for me. He just said, I read some of these articles and not how he was putting it into practice.

At one difficult point, he told me to check this site out and was more specific about it, so I did. Which has led me to reading Harley's book "Survivng an Affair". We're currently working on the questionnaires and utilizing that book to help us work on our recovery. All while going to counselling and such.

We're in the early stages of recovery, but we're getting there and are finally on the same page and working 100% together now instead of both being out there individually trying to work through this. Our intentions were good, we just didn't realize who important it was to be totally in unison.

So, I totally agree with you on both being on the same page with publicizing the affair as well as getting the help you need. A couple has understand and accept what the other is doing in recovery. To me, that only builds respect and trust that's so desperately needed in recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I totally understand the importance of uncovering the affair and getting it into the open. I truly get that, but if you're doing it for revenge to spite the WS or the OW or OM - that will come across as that - revenge. And to me that's the wrong reasons for exposing. If you're trying to save your relationship, then fine - expose it, but to do it in a manner that's humiliating to an individual - then you're love busting - aren't you? Or do you have to love bust in order to build up the love bank? I don't know. I'm just beginning to learn all about this, so bare (bear?) with me as I figure this out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hikchik,

So glad you made it back here. I truly wish there was some way to safe a WS from all the humiliation....but I fear that is part of scenario that they just don't think out. Exposure takes a HUGE hit on the love bank...but it is not considered a lovebuster even though it does. Sounds contradictory but it isn't. It's more like one of the necessary evils because unless you can end the affair, you can't move forward in any other part of the marriage. Here's some guidelines about exposure though....that really are keeping with what you think (and you're right....we're probably not that far apart)

*exposure is for entrenched/addictive affairs. After D-day...the WS has the opportunity to end the affair right then and there. Many of them do....some find it impossible. Some actually justify continuing (I swear!). Especially with the ones who say the have a "right" to have an affair and who are lost in fogland...exposure is very important. You can worry about it causing love bank withdrawals, but if the marriage ends because the affair doesn't....it will hardly matter. ugh.

*I really prefer a stepped approach to exposure if it is necessary. For instance, BEGIN with the OPs spouse and just those people who are closest and most likely to help. Most of the time, that is enough. It's rarely necessary to expose to a wide group of people unless...and here's some of the scenarios we see all the time....the husband has moved in with the OW, leaving his wife and 3 children with all the bills while he is having an A with his secretary. Or, he's having an A with the choir director at church....stuff like that. In those cases, very often....it takes even more pressure...and yes humiliation sometimes to stop those affairs. Personally, I'm with you....if it takes all of that, I'm not sure I would want my spouse anyway...but then I'm not in love with this guy or have three little kids needing a daddy. So it goes.

*Exposure only works well when the motive is CLEAR and ALL about saving the marriage. You are so right that if it smacks of revenge...everyone will know...and it will be ugly. If it's done late, if it's done with malice, if it's done with the desire to punish or humilate...it will backfire. Does that mean that there won't be humiliation? nope. Even if a spouse exposes solely to save the marriage....humiliation of the WS is likely to occur anyway...afterall, society frowns upon these things. In fact, that sort of censorship is exactly what exposure is designed to bring about because when a person is faced with others knowing about their actions....it sheds a new light on those actions. Secrecy protects him from having to change...exposure blows the lid right off affairs. It's a nasty business....but then so is having affairs. There are women and men all over these boards whose spouse has left them in dire circumstances with little children. We have pregnant women whose husband's have moved in with the OWs. It's very sad.

Hi,

First time writing, here goes. I was told by my H on a Saturday night about his affair. I went to see the other woman the next a.m. to tell her I knew about the affair and to inform her that my husband's and her secret was not MY or my children's secret and that I and my kids would tell whoever and as many people as we felt we needed to to get through this mess. Her husband called me about 10 minutes later. He had known for some time!!!!! I was apparently the only one of the four of us in the dark.

Anyway, I decided that the only way I could have any control about the situation, (small town, news travels fast, ...) was to know that word got out from MY lips. I did not want to worry about "who knew what" every time I entered a room. By me telling, I had some control over the facts.

I should add that my husband confessed his affair to both of our kids (15 and 21) including telling them who it was with, the morning after he told me. (She is known to both of my kids; works with their dad). He did ask them to be discreet because of her children. I told my kids that that was their dad's suggestion and that I felt they should use their own judgement and tell those that they wanted/needed to.

I informed the OW's H that neither I nor my kids were keeping the secret. That made it apparent that he needed to prepare his kids. There's so much more to this story, but it was pretty apparent from behavior's on their end (by the H and W) that their kids probably had strong suspicions already.

I do not regret any of my actions relative to this. When my daughter was told about the A she said she was not surprised to hear who her dad was having the A with. She said they were together all the time (they both worked at my daughter's former school). I believe the whole process was cathartic for my daughter (15). I think she felt she finally had some control over her life relative to this mess.

I shared the fact that my husband was having an affair (and who with) the next Monday at my work with the people I work closely with and care about. I received nothing but support. This was not my shame; it was my WHs and the OWs.

From what I heard, the OW who had apparently been quite open in her overtures to my husband, when many people suspected but no one knew, pretty quickly began laying low when the word got out. She finally had to face the world.

Long story short, my H and I were separated from early Dec. through the end of January (by his continuing the A). He ended the A at the end of January. We began seeing eachother as much as possible pretty quickly, had never stopped talking (I found Marriage Builder's web sight that same first Sunday a.m. and recommended he visit the site) but he did not move back home until near the end of March. This was for my daughter's sake. She had a hard time with my decision to get back with her dad.

We are working on things; took the couple's weekend workshop and are both in this sincerely. We have a long way to go and I know it will not be easy. I have to say that finally having everything known and on the table has allowed me to "connect some dots" that were out there for some time. I made plenty of mistakes through the years myself. My H and I were SO not meeting eachother's emotional needs. It's wonderful to see all the information Dr. Harley has to share in print and to finally "get it" myself.