Wish I would have read this website sooner.We've been married 14 years, with two kids. We have both let the marriage deteriorate over the past few years, many hard feelings and resentment.

I guess we are in the withdrawl stage. My wife informed we she wanted to end our marriage, didn't want to try anymore, that is was hopeless. Said it was too hard, and that we have tried over and over without success. I am dying. My family is the most important thing in the world.

I also discovered that she is having an internet affair with another man. She has even given him our phone number and I heard the messages on her cell phone. It broke my heart.

He lives half the country away. I asked her to stop so that we can try again. She said she would give us some time and try, she said it was nothing. She said she would stop Chatting with this man. For us to have any chance I don't think there can be that kind of distraction. A day later there were two IMs from different users to our account with identical messages - one was from the man. They had changed Screen names to hide it from me.

She went out to get our son's birthday cake and when she returned I found she called him four times on her cell. In the morning there were two phone messages to her from him - very erotic and intimate in nature.

What can I do? He is far away but in a popular city that she will travel to I fear. Can we recover with her still phoning and chatting erotically to him? I feel this will keep anything I do from having an effect.

Please.....

Florida Jer,

I'm so sorry you found the need to seek out our site, but you have found a wonderful place for repairing and rebuilding your marriage. Lots of great knowledge and advice here and compassionate, supportive members.

First of all, you are experiencing the worst possible thing that can happen to a marriage. But there IS hope. You CAN work through this!

The first thing you need to do is begin by reading everything you can on this site, starting with the post at the top of this forum-- The General Welcome for New Builders. Lots of VERY useful information and links there to help you understand this site and the advice you will receive on the forums. Learn the Harley very effective principles and methods for marital and personal recovery. Whether or not your wife embraces this program of recovery, it is important for you to do so just for your own personal recovery from such a devastating blow.

If you decide the marriage is worth saving and that you are willing to do what is necessary to rebuild, then learning the Harley Principles is the best place to start. There is an Emotional Needs Questionaire that you and your wife should fill out and then discuss together. Some strongly suggest you both get into marital counseling with a pro-marriage counselor, preferably someone familiar with the Harley Principles (because these policies really work). Phone counseling is available on this site with the Harleys.

While you are in so much turmoil, you should not make any drastic decisions about anything. Let everything settle down for a while and after you feel you have calmed down enough to think clearly, you can consider some decisions.

The hardest thing is the disappointment and confusion over the Betrayal. The shock that someone you love so much is capable of doing something so horrible is something you'll never be able to shake completely. It will get easier in time. I know it is hard to imagine now that there will ever come a time where you won't be agonizing over all this, but you will get through this even if you decide to stay in the marriage as long as your wife works the recovery. This is a time for you and your wife to re-connect, to talk openly and honestly about what has happened and why it happened, and then to make every effort to re-build your marriage. This is a time for the two of you to concentrate on each other and to find out where your hearts are truly telling you to go.

It is heartbreaking to know that so many women and men share this problem, but at the same time, it gives you hope that recovery is possible. You will learn to laugh again, love with your whole heart again, and trust again. But, it will take time and effort . If your wife is committed to making the marriage the safe place for you both that it once was, you can move forward.

Can recovery take place while she is still in contact with him? The affair needs to end and that will be accomplished with NO Contact with the OM. How do you get her to end the affair? Read on this site everything possbile about Plan A. There are links to Plan A in that post I told you about--The General Welcome for New Builders.

Weekends tend to be slow but keep posting. Draw from the wisdom and strength of those who have been through this and survived it, and those that are traveling that same road with you. Just know you are not alone. Recovery is possible and that you won't always feel this horrible. It will get better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ May 22, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Nerlycrzy ]</small>

Welcome to marriage builders. You are exactly right, as long as your wife is having this emotional affair, it will be difficult to work on your marriage. She is now getting her emotional needs met by this other man, and is probably deeply in a fantasy.

Start in Plan A. Read all about it here under the General Welcome thread. You can do this, just stick with us. There are lots of success stories here.

You may want to post on the General Questions forum, weekends are slow, and you will get more help there.

I can't eat or sleep. I've read your suggestions, don't know how to do it with an internet lover.

I don't know what would be worse. If he was local then at least she would eventually see him, warts and all. But online is just a fantasy. She started a screen name as DicknJane66. It shows me she views them as a couple. She called him again this morning as we were leaving for my son's birthday party. She talked to him right in front of me but said it was her sister. (caller ID showed it was him)

When we talked last night she told me she was not in love with him. And that she didn't even "know him" Later I asked her if she would stop calling him and she said, "I don't think I want to stop." I honestly thought I was having a heart attack, I've never had such intense chest pain with no relief.

How can I compete with a fantasy? All she they ever have to deal with is the nice stuff. He keeps wanting her to come to Vegas where he lives. If she goes I know it will again just reinforce the fantasy. I heard his message on the phone, very smooth. "hello darling, miss you, I adore you, thinking of you ...." I did hear her say that she talked to her sister last night, so I'm thinking they are both pushing my wife further away from me, or at least keeping us from fixing anything.

I don't blame him for wanting my wife, she is gorgeous, funny, and considerate. But I am sure he's only interested in bedding her. He doesn't want to take care of her. But DAMN IT, I didn't meet her needs either. We were both in Withdrawl, perhaps I was in Conflict? It had been that way off and on for a long time.

She says she is confused. That she doesn't have any hope for us or even want to have any. She says she doesn't want to work on anything it is too late. We have shared tears and some hugs the past week, but I don't know if that is a facade to pacify me. She hasn't filed for divorce yet, but I have a feeling that one day I'll just get served without warning.

Sorry for rambling, the real question was how to make her see what this internet lover is, especially when she is eager to call him and get what he is giving her. It is a fantasy... taking the place our own relationship.

She admits what she is doing is wrong, that it is cheating, and that she knows it is hurting me terribly. And of course she is sorry. What hope is there? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

How can I even start plan A? She only has to talk to him, never really "deal" with him. And I'm not lying, she is gorgeous.

It's hard for me to face my kids, tears just start welling in my eyes everytime I see them. THey ask me if everything is OK. I don't want to be a crybaby, don't want my WS think I am a sissy and weak. I'm so depressed and tired from lack of sleep/food that it is hard to do anything but think about this. I have absolutely no drive. Except to cling to her.

Read the Plan A links in my signature line.

Now is not the time to whine about how hard it is. Your family hangs in the balance. Fight, don't give up. But don't fight HER. Fight FOR your marriage.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=001455

Dear Florida,

My first instinct says Turn off the Internet and the Cell phones!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

If contact is made difficult....then may be you two can work on M?

Of course this would be a L/B for W.....and I am not sure how fine the line would be here?

Is wife finanancially independant of you?? Can she finance trips.....calls ....etc without you??

Blessings,
Atruheart

Florida Jer,
I feel for you, man. I've been there although not with an internet affair.

Buy this book immediately----> "Not Just Friends" by S. Glass. It deals with emotional affairs including internet relations. Read it.

Continue to Plan A. Have you read the Plan A concepts? Start by being the best "you" possible. Try to meet all her needs. Do the EN questionaire. If she won't do it with you try to make an educated guess on her needs. Women's needs usually are: financial, affection, communication, recreational time, sex (in that order, lol)

If your wife needs the fantasy of an internet relationship. Is there any way you can follow her to her chat rooms and chat with her yourself? Pretend you've just met her and your interested in her. Ask all the questions that an attracted male would ask. Just a thought.

Any affair is just that fantasy. They rarely work in the real world. Even when affairs are in person, most affair partners don't see the "warts" for a very long time.

Exposure typically ends the affair. Do you know anything about the OM? Try to research his telephone numbers. Maybe he'll call her from work or better yet home. Call numbers during the day. A wife or GF may answer while he's at work.

gotta go.

cwnmac

Thanks so much for the conversation. There is no one to talk too, and I feel so humiliated and inadequate.

It is hard to be the best I can be, My mind is constantly on the threat, it is difficult to be comfortable with sounding like I am forcing something. I asked her about going to counseling yesterday, we talked about it some. She said she would think about it. I believe she'll say no. We went to my sisters last night because relatives were in town. I was asked about some about things that happended to my Wife and I. Later in the evening she became very irritable, very ancy to leave. I think she wanted to call the OM. When we got home she went straight to the bathroom with her purse. ?? Then walked to the porch. I began to follow her and she shrieked to quit crowding her. She even said that she doesn't even have her phone! However it wasn't in her purse anymore. I don't think she got ahold of him she was so jittery. I asked if I did something and she said she didn't like me talking about the "good old times".

It is so hard to talk to her without it becoming serious. I know she has talked to him today for sure, the message I heard left on her phone said for sure on SUnday. Of course, Sunday is work day for me and he knows that apparently. I also often work overnight.

I asked her to come visit me at work today and she said she would. I want to ask about finding a couselor. I am scared to wait even one minute, but I know I'm pushing her.

I work two jobs and she is a stay at home mom. She is dependent on me for money but I could never withhold it, even for this. I think shutting down the internet and her phone would just be more trouble. Besides she would just get it hooked up again.

I ordered the book HNHN but am afraid to wait for it.

Forida Jer - It is completely miserable when you first find out. I couldn't eat, sleep, and was like a zombie at work.

I know men don't like to take anti-depressants, but that is my suggestion to you. They really ease the shock, and let you feel stronger to deal with all of this.

Your wife will behave like an addict - they all need their fix. So do not take this personally. She is getting her needs met through OM. As long as she is contacting him, she will not work on the marriage.

Please stay in Plan A. That is the starting point. There are many success stories here, so don't give up hope. You will not feel as bad as you do in the future, hold on to that thought.

Believer, thank you. My wife came to see me today at work for awhile. I went out to meet her at the car and she ignored me and just kept talking on her cellphone, it hurt. I was suspicious it was her internet BF. But she told me that it was another friend. I feel compelled to find out everything, but at the same time I know exactly what I'll find so why look.

We had a nice conversation, and I asked her about couseling again. She turned her head and said, did we really want to talk about it here. Will counseling do any good if she is not willing to drop her BF? Will it make her see anything different?

I know BF's phone #. Should I call him and ask him to leave her alone. He lives in vegas and is in his 30's. From his profile pic he is ok looking.

Should I write her a letter or email expressing something?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A word about confronting the OP, when a WS is unwilling to end an affair on their own, because this question comes up a lot, and many people advise that you avoid confronting the OP, because discussions between BS’s and OP’s tend to be unhelpful and painful for the BS. I do not suggest having much of a discussion. I DO suggest confronting the OP, and also informing the OP’s spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend of what you know, if they have one. If the OP’s spouse/friend is likely to be violent, you may want to hold off on that exposure, but that is the only exception I know of, other than a message from God.

The confrontation of the OP is fairly important, and should be worded carefully. Given the emotional state you are probably in right after you learn of an affair, that usually means doing it by letter or email, or maybe a phone call. I do not recommend direct confrontations because of the strong temptation you may have to become physically violent.

Whatever method you use to communicate, say something like: “I love [spouse], and am trying to fix what is wrong with our marriage. I believe your relationship with [spouse] is interfering with our efforts to fix our marriage, and I would appreciate it if you would cease all contact with [spouse].” If you are CERTAIN it is a physical affair, you can use the word “affair”, instead of “relationship”. If you have children, you may also say that the OP is contributing to the destruction of a family.

They may laugh at you, but it is important to send that message, respectfully, for several reasons:

1. Because the OP may not know the WS is married. If that is the case, confronting the OP sometimes leads immediately to the end of the affair.
2. Because WS’s usually (almost always?) depict their spouse in a negative way to the OP. They say things like: “My wife doesn’t understand me” or “My husband won’t talk to me”, “My spouse is unconcerned about me and/or our marriage” or “We have an open relationship”, or something worse – you are crazy, controlling, cruel, etc. So, you need to confront the OP in a way that shows you at your best – not crazy, not unconcerned, not controlling, not angry, but rather calm, kind, purposeful, determined and concerned for your spouse and your relationship with them. When you do that, it introduces conflict into their relationship, because there is a conflict between what the OP experiences, and what they have been told.
3. Many WS’s and OP’s minimize the seriousness of their affairs with rationalizations like: “It’s only physical”, or, in the case of an Emotional Affair, “It’s just a close friendship” and “It’s not physical.” The language I have suggested avoids giving them a point to argue, and simply says it is hurting you.
4. In most cases, affairs grow in secret, and they die when exposed.


Remember that affairs are addictions. What happens when you try to take away an addict's fix? Frequently, they get angry. It is fairly common for a WS to get EXTREMELY angry when you expose their affair and confront the OP, and accuse you of trying to destroy them and your marriage and of being a horrible human being, so be prepared for an angry response. It is not a lovebuster, it is fighting for your marriage. You are doing nothing horrible. They are. You are fighting to save your marriage. They are destroying it. You are telling the truth. They are being deceitful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

John thanks so much for that help. The OP is Vegas, they have never actually met of that I am sure. I have even talked to him on messenger before. He is single and I believe he lives alone because the phone message he left invited my wife to call him Late tonight. I don't believe he wants anything more than Phone sex or to have my wife visit him for sex. I feel safe on that account so far, but I don't see any way to keep them from talking. She is still with me for now, and says it is just "talk" with him. But I am sure it is causing more friction between us. We were going through some struggles but it wasn't until she actually start to phone him that the wall collapsed on our love.

I am sure he will laugh at anything I send to him. I believe he is preditor on unhappy spouses, he is a sweet talker. From what I heard on the phone message...UGHHHHH! Nothing but deep breaths and sighs.

My WS is getting support from her sister, who I/we have not gotten along with. I believe she is giving her encouragement. I have not told any of our close mutual friends and I am positive she has not, should I tell them our marriage is on the brink of collapse? SHould I seek thier support? I am a very private person. AND I HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS SITUATION and been negligent in some areas of my marriage.

It is so refreshing to visit this board, gives me relief if only for a moment. THank all the people who take the time to share with me. I know it is probably painful for you to read all this too.

I will draft an email and let you see how it sounds before I send it. But he won't care.

Forget about contacting OM. It is a huge waste of time. He does not care about you or your marriage.

I would get some anti-D's. Also start in Plan A. Many, many people here have recovered and have a better marriage than ever.

You need to settle down for the fight ahead. I would also tell wife you don't want her talking to OM in your presense. It is very disrespectful.

Florida Jer,
You need to go to a doctor asap and get on an anti-depressant. It'll help you relax a bit and to slow down so you can think about saving your marriage.

You need to get yourself under control first otherwise you'll never get your W back on your side. Especially if she sees a nervous, anxious sniveling H. It makes it easier for her to rationalize her decisions.

I say all of this not to critisize but to try to help.

I was exactly where you were: anxious, jumpy, depressed, moody (happy one minute and an angry terror the next) etc.

I got the same advice from all of the vets here at MB and I ignored them. "I can handle this." WRONG!!!! I couldn't handle it. Depression getsa worse the longer it goes unrteated.

I hope you take this advice for the sake of you and your MARRIAGE.

CWMAC

<small>[ May 23, 2004, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Its been a tenous two days. We still talked about counciling and she has talked to me about some things and I tried to just listen to it all. It even felt good to have talk to me even though sometimes she is saying uncomfortable things.
I've been plan A'ing as much as she would allow me. But one night about 2AM did some major LB's trying to have her realize the folly in her Internet EA. Was calm, but could see she didn't like at all what I was saying. It ended up with her asking whose going to move out. I told her wasn't leaving. She said she would, with or without the kids. Which really scared me because of the implications. I said I'd take a leave from work if I had to and be with the kids.

In the morning we talked again early. It was a pretty good talk. I did most of the talking, but shut up right away when she opened up. Lots of times she would start to say something and stop herself.

The good news I guess, is that she agreedt to go to counciling. I'm scared though. She is still contacting her internet EA on daily basis and using the phone too. She swears it is not romantic, but I heard the messages and saw the screen names. She became very defensive and said I should assume anything. But she still keeps everything secret.

After she said she would got to counciling, she added that "but if it doesn't work you'll just blame it on something else." (Meaning her refusal to drop her EA with OM) I dropped it immediately, but hope that in councilig maybe she will realize something. Also I saw an IM today to him where she called him honey. (heartbreaking)

I'm afraid that she is just going to counciling to say we tried, but not with the intention of doing anything. In my mind I can hear her saying to the OM, "I'll go to counciling for a little while to prove it won't work"
Felt good when she said she'd go to counciling but now I'm all twisted in knots again.

Have an appointment to see a Dr. also.