Keepmvn4wrd

I have taken the liberty to look up your other posts and am very encouraged by what I read. One question; my wife has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. Does this pose any unforseen problems? Any tricks for me , especially at nighttime when the demons start their howl and I am almost crawling out of my skin?

I have had some more second hand (one way) contact through a mutual friend. She says my wife is still wearing her wedding ring and introduces herself as Mrs Cymanca. She also states that she has been doing a lot of praying. This gives me hope but then again reality comes crashing down in my motel room at night. I am strictly into the no contact rule but this is the most painful and stressful situation I have ever gone through.

I would like some feedback on any others that have followed the no contact rule. How long did it take? does the time seem to be related to how long you are married or how long the A lasted? What role do her/his parents play in the scenario (if any)? I thought I had some great in-laws, they were always so warm and vocal about how well I have taken care of their daughter and her obvious self centered persona. But since the affair came to light almost 7 weeks ago, I have not heard a word from ANYONE on her side of the family. To tell you the truth that pain is just below the pain of the Affair on my psych meter.

Keepmvm4wrd .... looking for a reply

Cymanca- It is completely normal to not hear anything from WS's family. I think they are shocked and embarrassed. I have been going through this for a year, and have only had contact with his family about a half dozen times. And I used to be best friends with his sister, and I helped raise his kids.

Plan B really works well. I started mine in September - WH completely stayed away for almost 3 months. Then he started showing up more and more.

Stick with us. Your wife will come back to the marriage. Hopefully you will still want her.

If you think of your WW in the throes of an addiction, you being in the medical field, you will have a good feeling for her state of mind.

She gets a "fix" from the OM each time she has contact with him. What she is getting from him is an emotional need that was not being met by you. Harley also has a book out called "His Needs Her Needs" which explaines these in detail. This site allows you to order Harley's books directly to your home - I found this very convenient.

A's die natural deaths. Your actions in the interim can possibly affect the time-frame - how much or little time is needed for the process to run its course.

Learn about affairs. Why they can happen. Read this entire site. Read about the Giver and the Taker.

I would like to comment that the 2 stipulations you made for reconcilliation to be possible were not unreasonable at all, to you and I, as BS's who are not all fogged up.

However, IMHO, the signing the paper to not lie anymore, could be a bit controlling and overpowering. All of her choices cannot be taken away. She cannot become a robot who can only give one set of answers. I am not advocating lying . . . I am saying she is an individual and has CHOICES.

If you want her to not lie to you again, it has to be her CHOICE, for her REASONS. Or it is just so many letters on a piece of paper. When it is her choice, it will stick, like glue.

Good luck. You are getting great responses from great people. Believer is an expert on Plan B, so if you go that route, she is an excellent resource. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care. Read read read. Pray pray pray.

I followed the MB principles on this site, I read the books, I prayed SO hard, I became a better person, and my FWH came home 9 weeks ago. We are in a great recovery, he is back 100%, we are in MC, and loving life. Don't lose hope. A's run predictable cycles.

Make a plan, get on it, stick to it, work on learning about what might have made your M vulnerable to an A, and make some changes for the better in your life - in all areas. You can only control you.

SS

Beleiver & Spider Slayer............Thanks so much for your thoughts. Unfortunately when you are in Plan B, it appears that you are extending that great veil of impotence in regards to FIXING what has gone wrong. I have always been a man that has been taught you can fix anthing if you work hard enough at it. Plan B or NC is the opposite tact that most people would use but after 6 weeks the strain on my well being is evident. We would all like a quick fix to get us out of this nightmare, but I am convinced that would be illusory and temporary. Feedback posts help me get through the tougher days. Thanks to all!

Cymanca,

I mentor couples going through this crisis for SYMC, and while you've done reasonalby well on your own....there are some holes you might want to fill. Much of this stuff is counter intuitive. Just because it "feels" right, doesn't mean it will help you repair your marriage. You need to decide right now...whether you want to be right, or you want to be married.

The processes that are used her to end affairs and repair marriages were developed by Willard Harley over twenty years of helping folks battle infidelity. They are as they are because they work to do that. Much of what you did, was actually absolutely correct.....however, the steps you did miss are vital and necessary. So let's talk about them.

Here's what Plan A looks like:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what did you miss? Someone already pointed out that you missed the exposure part....however, if you try exposing during Plan B it simply looks like an attempt at revenge and humiliation. So I don't recommend it unless you're willing to resume contact and go back to Plan A....which IS something to consider but not something I think you are in the state of mind to do.

You might believe you are in Plan B, but you aren't. Unless you've written a letter, or stated explicitly the things below you aren't really in Plan B. Plan B requires that certain things be said up front. Otherwise it's more like withdrawal. I'm sure you said some or all of these things during the course of the sep, but a letter is optimal because it sets it all out in a way that is clear and concise and can't be denied or argued later. It can be looked at and reread as time goes on.

You need to decide if you are in save the marriage mode, or take care of you mode..... they're not mutually exclusive but you will behave differently depending on which way you're thinking.

Things that need to be in a PBL

• I love you.
• I married you for life. I want to stay married to you
• I am willing to do what it takes to be the spouse you've always wanted and to address the things I did wrong in the marriage.
• The affair/neglect/abuse is so painful for me that it will destroy the love I have for you. In order to protect those feelings I must end all contact with you.
• As soon as the affair/neglect/abuse is over I would love to talk with you about our future.
• Until that time please respect my wish for no contact whatsoever
• In an emergency you can reach me through______.
• Arrangements for seeing children and handling finances are_____.

Lastly, you can afford to get a real marriage coach that will make this process work for you. What's stopping you? Call either Penny Tupy at SYMC who was trained by Willard himself http://www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com/pages/1/index.htm...or call Jennifer Chalmers his daughter and get some expert advice...number on the homesite here. It's done by phone.....so should work well with your limited time schedule.

This forum is fantastic....but please remember there are only a few of us who have had any training or been here for long periods of time...especially on the JFO board. So you might consider posting on GQII where there are alot of veterans. John39 and Chris have been here forever, so please listen to their advice.

StarFish,


The suggestions on your plan B letter were pretty close to what I had stated in my email to her and re-iterated in our one post A marriage conseling session. I told her that I would do WHATEVER it took to save our marriage( including relocating) if necessary. I also told her that we could not work on our marriage with the presence of the OM ( even if he was only in the background via emails). I do not want to come out sounding controlling and I have tried to make my minimal contacts with her in that manner but my wife has always seen many statements as a veiled threat,criticism,or controlling. I am trying not to show any controlling manners but when you state your boundaries clearly and concisely, I think you always run the risk of misinterpretation.

During our time together she has been given the freedom to pursue whatever she wanted in here course of personal fulfillment. Since we started our relationship she had made three career changes ( along with accumulating two masters degrees). Before the A she talked about how unhappy she was with her new career and I was wiling to have her return to school yet again if necessary. I did warn her that new careers are frought with tension, anxiety and fears that you will be found out as a completely incompetent person.

Just received Surviving an Affair and read it all last night. It is frightening to read how adamant that the WS is in her postion that she has done nothing to ask for forgiveness. The character " Sue" is so remindful of my spouse that I had to put the book down and go for a walk. Perhaps that is just the feeling that we are in a unique relationship when in reality these affairs have a whole bunch of common themes that run through most if not all of them.

The book is very helpful as far as insight to the WS. I pray to God that we can achieve a similar ending!

Cy,

Believe it or not....we could practically write "scripts" fot these dang things they are so similar. Everybody is quick to say "that won't work with MY spouse" and yet, almost everytime....it does. I'm really happy you got that book. It was my bible for awhile. I hope it helps solidify some of these things for you.

I know you feel as though you've followed the steps pretty closely...but if you want to save your marriage....I think it's really important that you get out "divorce mode". Your last exit doesn't sound like much of a Plan B....it seems controlling and more like an ultimatim. I think your wife sees it that way as well. The first "chance" you gave her, you were indeed loving and set good boundaries. She did what many many WS's do and renewed contact. Addictions are hard to break, and sometimes things backslide a bit. You've given her not much recourse but to divorce now....and she is not the least bit sure that you are interested in taking her back. Is that what you want her to believe?

Star*Fish,

Like I said in my previous post, my wife throughout the time I have known her, has an extreme ability to take any statement and twist it. I think that this issue is why I am concerned about her diagnosed BPD. While I am in the no contact mode, I am realistic enough to realize that some of our mutual friends report our conversations to my wife. I have NEVER been critical of my wife to any friend or family member during this period. Yet, I do wonder about her perceptions as you have pointed out. Would sending her another Plan B letter be in order??..does this screw up the basic tenets of my 7 week plan B?

I am almost paralyzed in fear that I will make a mistake at this juncture. This has been a very difficult 7 weeks. But again I am willing to do whatever it takes to save the marriage. BTW in California, I can do nothing to stop the divorce process ( a no fault state) except to argue about comunity property and its evaluation. I have told my attorney to let things slide for the present. Thank you for taking time out of your weekend to give me your thoughts.

Cyn,

If your W has BPD or displaying such tendancies, it maybe critical to 'go dark' (aka: plan B). As for the attorney stuff, don't let anything slide. CA is not always fair to the BS (esp if it is the H). Many a WS play this unfairly in this state.

One MBer who has done good is Redhat. While he and his Xw are now D'd, he has been able to use the system to document his WS' actions. As a result, he has custody of his children and she has visitation. She did get some monetary benefit but not as much as CA normally allows.

If you would like to discuss this further with him, I am sure he would oblige.

take care,
L.

Cymanca,

You have a great help already. My sis alert me about you during our picnic @ Angel Island.

How many childern do you have and how old are they ?. What is current custody arrangement between you & your stbxw ?. Do you have to go to see family services before your first hearing ? how many weeks do you have before you have to go ?.

I am sorry but when WS filed, you have to protect the interest of your children and your finances first before your M !. I would suggest you to evaluate anything you do plan A/plan B or whatever you do base on "If I am Dv'ed today, would I make this decision ?" rather than "Do I hurt my chances of getting her back ?". You are in ligitation.

What do you know about OM ? Is he M ?

More tomorrow ... I need some rest -rh-

Redhat & Orchid,

No, we have no children. I do not know for sure if the OM is married but I doubt it. This info is from our 1 and 1/2 day of reconciliation that I had with my wife. I must confess I really did not want to know too much about the OM. Because it was a one night stand, there probably was a lot misinfomation on both sides.

BTW, On the subject of Plan B and showing you are going on with your life, I just moved in with a friend after living in motels for the last 6 weeks. My buddy, who is single, has a reputation as quite the ladies man and always has a few new and old flames passing through. Believe me another woman is the last thing on my mind at this point, but my friends feel this will drive my WS crazy( she has always been a jealous type. I don't know why, I never gave anything to be jealous about). I hope this creates a positive reaction in my WS!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca:
<strong>.... ( she has always been a jealous type. I don't know why, I never gave anything to be jealous about). I hope this creates a positive reaction in my WS! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First you have to see why she is insecure about this R ?, do you cause it or she has A so she is paranoid about you ? or deeper in her personal history ?

Second, re-read star*fish reply about plan B to you. It doesn't say about moving on & that is just the effect later when LB$ has been drained. However for now you should give no impression that you gave up on M. You have to show that you are doing this b/c you love her and you believe that M could be fix if both of you willing to do the work.

-rh-

Hi Cymanca,

I have been following your story and felt compelled to post now.

Is there another friend you could be living with?

Living with Mr.Romance at this time in your life is a recipe for disaster.You do not need to be exposed to his revolving door of women nor be exposed to ANY women right now.YOU are VULNERABLE.And trying to make your WW jealous,in any respect,lacks respect.

Like redhat mentioned,you need to be showing your WW that although you do not approve of her behavior with the OM right now(to say the least!)that doesn't mean that you start acting like a college freshman or give that impression,it is not to be confused with Plan B.She will not feel any better about you and she may even just become more firmly imbedded in her righteous beliefs about the state of your marriage.

Like your WW should have done,you have to guard your heart and mind while you go through this and that means,as much as you can,stay away from the opposite sex.Being a surgeon,you know that is hard with all the RN's around(I am one too) so just be cautious.

O

Redhat & 10Girl,

I appreciate you giving me time on this holiday weekend.

Redhat, my WS is a very beautiful woman. I general I have found that the more beautiful the greater insecurity. Her Dx of BPD carries with it extreme irrational jealousy patterns. She once spent 30 minutes screaming at me because I had stood up in the aisle to let another woman past us in the theater. Everywhere we have gone and I do mean everywhere, whenever we are in a new surrounding she ALWAYS had one eye on me to watch my reaction in case she spotted what she perceived to be some competition. Most people think I have a problem with my neck because my head is always pointed straight ahead. I just never wanted to give her any REAL reason to doubt me.

10Girl,

I understand your concern, it did cross my mind in regards to the new living arrangements. I was offered several places to stay and I turned them down. They were from couples that we had been close with and since implementing Plan B, it just hurts too damn much to have any memories triggered by those locations. In addition, my new roomie had the exact same situation happen to him and I have found him to have great insights into my current psych status. I don't want to say never, but I know I would not be tempted even if it was Hugh Hefner's house. My functional status has absolutely no room for libido for a long, long time.

Cymanca,

Does she consistently taking her medication ? Look deeper into her personal history for this insecurity, you might need it later.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> In addition, my new roomie had the exact same situation happen to him and I have found him to have great insights into my current psych status.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think you want to be like your friend ? It is crucial for you to move out from there. Go get a lease on a short term luxury furnished apartment, you need start thinking Dv financing startegy. Push as high as possible you basic living expenses, car, roof on top of you head, and even go back to school to lower your income.

I would hire a gumshoe to dig into OM, you need to know everything !. Know your enemy so that you could plan the war. He might be a predator, he knows that your stbxW would have a huge ss !. You need to protect you & your stbxw also.

-rh-

Got an email from WS's work friend the other day. We have always been friendly and it was just a short joke with nothing personal. I was surprised because I had not gotten an email from her in months. I replied that while I appreciated the joke, why was she contacting me, knowing what I am going through in my life. I did not get an immediate response but when I did it was from my WS saying she had written it. She said when she got it she thought of me and forwarded it by mistake under her friends email address. This is her first attempted contact in two weeks.

I sent her a reply stating while I appreciated the joke I felt the same about our situation. Until she could send the OM the no contact letter and we could get working on our marriage that I would much rather continue my life alone.

Did I break the basic tenets on the no contact rule? Is this a setback in my 7 week quest to bring my wife back to me?