Hi ginger! I wanted to make a comment about what you've written on Sue's thread about exposure. Having some exposure now, will probably help you a little because it helps others understand what has been happening to you. It must be a relief in many ways not to be carrying around this dark secret alone. It will not however, give much help to your marriage at all. Exposure is for when the affair is going on....if done afterwards, the motivation for doing it can appear vindictive. Your husband will see it as an indication that he will never be forgiven and that you are trying to lower other's opinions of him. He may look at it as an unwillingness on your part to move past this incident and undermine his ability to work towards a marriage where he can never live down or find redemption for his past sins. So please do be careful about who and how much you reveal at this point. Of course those closest to you should know for your sake...and for your support....including your daughter...but do be very discreet at this point in time unless you feel certain that you are ready for divorce because there is a risk involved in exposing at this late date.

hugs to you my friend!

Hi Star
Wow its been a long time since we have talked.

What you said makes perfect sense to me.And yes I think he did think I told my D as a form of revenge.
That was not my intent at all.Like I said I was leaving to meet MOMof1 and I had to let them know the truth.It is so hard for me to lie to the kids and that is how I have felt over the last 17m.Just having the kids know has helped me some at least it explains all the changes in me to them and they are now able to understand why things have been the way they have.

I am not and will not tell everyone about the A more for me,remember I do not trust many people and that has not changed.But the very thing I knew would happen if the kids knew has,they are very angry not just because of the A but because of a life with a father that took little to no time for them.They feel betrayed also.Two days ago my D finally lost it w/my H and told him how she felt,how she had no childhood memories of time spent with her dad,how he never had time to go on vacation with us yet he found the time to have an A,to fly to another state and spend a week with another woman.For my kids it goes deeper than him hurting me.

I will be honest,I am having a very hard time with forgivness and alot of this has to do with the fact that he has not done anything to change.I let him know that I did everything I knew how to do and he did not want to participate.All he has done is start to drink more and more to escape the issue at hand.I told him had he done something to face this problem head on way back then it would be behind us by now but because of his lack of willingness to change nothing is better it is only getting worse.

I am a firm believer that without change not just from him but me also our M will not work.

I understand your concern but please believe me when I tell you that telling the kids was for me,not for revenge.

Good to hear from you.
Take care.

So, if nothing is changing, what are you going to do. What do you see as your options?

Do you even feel you have any besides go or stay?

SS

This is my biggest problem,I just dont know what I am going to do.

There is a part of me that does not want to walk away from 27yrs.I am a person who has a big problem with failure and that is what getting a D is to me,failure.

There is a part of me that thinks of life alone and starting over and it does not seem so bad.

Theres a big part of me that is so afraid to start over.

Hello Ginger... hello Star <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Good to see you again!

Funny you should both be here at my first visit since... well, I don't even remember when it was last time.
I want to say to you, Ginger, that we are often stronger than we think. If you should choose to live alone one day it maight not be as scary as you might think now. Of course I believe in marriage, you know that, but a bad marriage will exclude us from growth and happiness and eventually destroy the last bit of our selfesteem.

Update:
My life is good - my son is happy too and we both love our "new" home.
S sees his dad once a week and he's comfortable with that. They have a much better father/son relationship now because X is making an effort to do things together with S when he's visiting - when we were a family X was more of a "distant" dad - selfcentered and not very supportive.

It is one year since my X met OW and I believe that they are still in love, God bless them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> - and honestly I don't care. I have very little contact with X - he mostly calls me to make arrangements - and that suits me just fine. OW is back in Australia - X will visit her there at the end of July and later she'll come to Denmark and live here... so I hear.
My love for X is completely gone (I think) - it's a little scary that I don't even care for him anymore - I hardly ever think of him and what we had, but today I did - that's why I checked in here.
Our divorce will be final the 4th of july.
I haven't met the new man of my dreams yet - perhaps I will some day.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Danish,Danish,Danish I am soooooooo happy to see you here,can you tell my excitment in seeing your name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh how I have missed you.I know your life must be so busy but I think of you daily and wonder all the time if you are doing ok.

I guess the secret to happiness after an A is change and because very little in my life has changed that is why I feel stuck.
I know deep down I could make it on my own it is just taking that first step to get there.

So good to hear from you check in once in a while will you please stranger.

WOW Danish!!! I'm so glad to see you stop in and so happy to hear you are doing well!

ginger...I never thought for one single second that you exposed for revenge of any kind...I know it was for you personally. I'm talking about the WS's "perception" and not your intent.

Star you are 100% correct also,he did think I did this to "get back at him".
But I told him that when my children thought I was going off the deep end,and making comments like "I bet mom is going to go meet a guy" I had to tell them I felt I had no choice for my own sake.

I could not stand that my children would think that I had gone totally nuts.After all I got on a plane and flew across the united states to meet what was in thier eyes a stranger.
For me it was meeting a person God had placed in my life to help bear the burden of the A.Momof1 and I have become really close and I felt so comfortable doing this.They just needed to know who she was and where and how we met.It made them feel much more comfortable about my trip and I was able to enjoy myself more knowing that they were at peace in thier minds.

Thanks Star you know that your oppinion matters to me.

Star*fish, Ginger, SS, all the wise veterans,

This is FBOW (my thread) .

I know weekends, especially holiday weekends are slow, but I hope to get some input from you.

I am facing H who recently refused to deposit his paycheck in the common account, he told me he will pay "the bills" as long as I show them to him.

I don't know if I should agree to it or should I ask for formal separation and, ask him to move out.

I DO NOT WANT TO DIVORCE him. Again, I still love him and I do believe we could be happily married. But for the past 2 years he did not allow me to deposit any L$, and also is emptying his account with me. And I am out of ideas and starting to deteriorate mentally and physically again.
I do not know the status of the A.
He is still living home with us ( DD was two years ago, March last year on my prodding he said he will stay with us, then OW sent me email asking for forgiveness but still saying she loves him and that he wants to remain friends with her. Home situation is bad. Little communication, no time spend together, no common projects nor goals.

Last December H promised he'll stop any business contact with OW, in January when I asked if he had stopped he said it is none of my business and that I am controlling. He also wanted to remove my access to asset accounts, as again, mine questions about them where "too controlling".
My questions were not about A related expenses - there is only a few of them on the accounts I have access to - but general money management questions ( stock market strategies, plans for future).


My half-empty glass view is: there is barely anything left in common. He sleeps in the house but in the other room, does not participate in housework, has no interest in spending any time - leisure or working or vacation together, recently went on diet so now buys and prepares his own food. doesn't need me for anything other than laundry and ironing, but I guess if I stopped doing that we would do it himself or skip it.
He spends time with kids when they want it which - as teenagers is not very often.
He did not respect any of my suggestions nor asking for things that would help me live everyday life and regain trust and lessen my anxiety. The third vacation season in row he doesn't have any plans nor does he want to discuss them with me.

Half-full view - he did not leave overseas to OW, the A - if still on - is 2.5 years old, if this is MLCrisis related time COULD cure it, there is no physical abuse nor addictions (as far as I know - maybe IT porn? - involved), I can force myself to diet for my own health and ask Doc for medical help with both that and my anxiety/self esteem issues again, kids do not seem to be affected much by home situation.

I did have IC and Anti D last year - for about 3-5 mos, some consecutively. Helped me short term, emotions and crying wise, not much help in self esteem - I keep damaging it by overeating and I feel at loss with myself about it.

I did not expose the A or the marital difficulties to either his or mine families, and confided in few of my friends, neither of them in town.

As SS says, my current M is gone anyway, and has been for over 2 years.

This is what I think I should do when he agrees to talk:
Tell him I am not comfortable with him one sidedly deciding to sever one of the few links we still shared, so I give him my cut up CC back, ask him to move out, set up kids visits schedule, communicate thru his best male friend, agree to pay CC for June (25% of his gross income for 2 kids fair?) and that I will persue formal court separation to deal with assests and debts. And I am not keeping the fact of separation from families.

I am afraid I will be dealing lethal blow to our R.

On the other hand if I just say OK to his way on managing finances I still don't know what will come next, and when, and I can't function with kids and work like this much longer (I mean months probably, years ?????) - too much stress and anxiety, not enough hope and not a common goal in sight.

Is there a middle ground that still would make sense MB wise? Keep in mind that we hardly can discuss anything. Anything for me to put in writing to him? -like "can we discuss other solution than having separate checking accounts and being secret about money we make or spend?" (short of plan B letter if I follow my idea and separation follows).

You know we are within a month to our 17th anniversary.

Please advise. Here or on my thread.
I do not HAVE to do anything for approx a month, maybe two.
I can pay bills this months from savings. I work full time and I hope to keep it this way.
I feel more betrayed now than on DDay. I still feel sad rather than angry.

FBOW

FBOW
I do not know alot of your story if I have time I will try and read it.
By what I just read it sounds like there really is not alot of a relationship left.

I know how hard this is to come to terms with.I think for me one of the things that keeps me in my M is the amount of time invested.I am afraid that there will be nothing for me beyond these walls that I know,maybe you feel the same??

There is life out there it is finding the strength to go after it.
I believe alot of your self esteem would come back if you were not in a relationship that you are getting nothing out of.

My H and I were forced by a situation to get seperate checking accounts it was so strange to me after 27yrs of M,but you know what it is not all that bad and it has given me a feeling of independance that I never felt before.

I dont think I am the one to give advise but please know that you are not alone and many here on the forum care about you.Maybe seperation is what it will take for your H to wake up.

Good luck talk to you again soon.

Gingersnap, thank you.
I have not talk to H yet.
My main reluctance with separating bills paying without total separation is that him wanting even more privacy in efect will cause my paranoia to skyrocket, thus making me even less appealing person to be around. So this no step in the right direcion, especially the way it was done - he set up another account months if not years ago, but the paychecks went to our common one until two months ago. He was evasive the three times I asked him about money not coming in ( answer needed to pay taxes but did not tell me it was permanent!!! - filed separate first time this year, on my request).
Within past two years and after reading HNHN, and trying to implement Plan A, and the four rules of M, I gave him concrete examples of behavior that would help me to deal with aftermath of his A and in particualt regaining the trust without it I cannot imagine being married ( again assuming that he did end the A last year, assuming the contiunuing contact - if there is still - is "friendship only"). Like have some regular, even if short time together doing smth nice regulary, if not every day so every week and stick to it. Like if you are bothered by my calls, call me for small talk daily when it suits workday. If you have Business trip tell me to wher and how long as soon as you know about it, not the day before or at all...I asked him for that. I am no even talking COMPLETE accounting of time, money, phone, email. Just enough to respect the evryday life managing burdens of a houshold with two full time workikng parents of two teenagers. I meant since you are always busy and seem annoyed when I come into your room to talk ( not R talk!!!) tell me the time I can do it without feeling like an intruder.
So, after two years its rather obvious that this not a matter of how but a matter of will. He is just not interested to attempt recovery, period.
From those few things he did tell me my distrust is my problem, not his, and the current life suits him fine ( or rather "he can manage").
Very possibly due to ongoing contact, possibly because I was too long in Plan A and he thinks I can bear anything without a peep.
Cutting the rope thread by thread may seem more humane for him instead of all at once, or he might be to chicken to do it by himself.
I am afraid this money issue is another one of those threads of the rope that used to be our M.

Ginger I am afraid of telling him to move out to implement plan B. I cannot remain blind to the other part MB plan however. I do realize after two years that I can handle a lot, somehow that did not help how I feel about myself too much.

I guess the question really is not can the separate bill paying be done but rather Do I want it.....

Thank you,
FBOW

I understand your fears.I have them to.
I am afraid to move on alone,I am afraid of what my life will be like.I am afraid that I would meet someone new fall deeply in love and be hurt and not be able to deal with is so I stay,it seems easier.

Like you I have been married a long time,with teenage children(I have two that are married w/kids of thier own)and it is hard to deal with M problems,money situations and teenagers all at once.I am at a point of having nothing left to give to anyone,his A put me over the top.
Yes I have had to deal w/so much stuff in my life and I think that my H like yours felt I could handle this also no problem.

They do not realize that their actions are killing us inside,we are becoming very unhealthy women because of it.
Unlike you my H has ended the A and did shortly after dday,however like your situation he has done nothing to help me heal,to change our life or to change himself.
My M is not in a good state right now,everything feels the same as when he had the A,and I think this is a big thing for me in not being able to recover.

As hard as it is you must find a way to take care of yourself,I am doing this slowly.I went out with the girls for the first time in yrs a week ago,I laughed so much that night my ribs hurt,but you know what I felt so good and realized that one of the biggest things missing in my life was laughter.
I took a trip to NY all alone to meet a woman I met here on the forum we hit it off last yr and have been in daily contact ever since and I took a huge step and went and met her,it was such a wonderful time for both of us,we both needed it.This was so out of characture for me that I still cant believe I did this but it was something I needed.

What do you do for you??
It is obvious your H does what ever he needs to do for him.

I understand what you said about the rope strings and how you feel,I really dont have an answer for you on this one,other than is there any way you can begin to set up a finacial plan of your own,setting money aside for yourself so that you can begin to plan a life alone??

I know this is scary,I am in the same boat I am afraid of life alone but in reality we may have no other choice if we are going to survive and be happy.

Hope to hear from you again.

forbetter,

What state do you live in? Some states allow for legal separation....some only divorce. If you are lucky enough to live in a state that has legal separation, I would definitely protect myself financially pronto!

Ginger,
You say you don't know what to do, but you know your choices.

It is hard to know how to advise - but I will say you should not wait.

I have thought about your stalemate - and many others are where you are, and I have thought about what I would do if I were there.

There have been times I have had strong words with my W. Not angry, mean words, but strong words about what *I* needed. She is free to do what she wants, but so am I. I need on going improvement, not a stalemate, and I have told her that. We are doing well, we really are, but I can never again be happy to stand still, and let things go, and ignore things that deplete the love bank of either one of us. You can't go back, and even if you could, that wasn't good enough then, and it wouldn't be now.


So, after all that background, I think I would tell my spouse what I needed (counseling, working on meeting needs, etc.) and what I would do if we couldn't come to agreement, and then I would do whatever I said. I am pretty sure I would do that, because It is what I usually do now. I don't make threats, or give ultimatems, I try to be humble, and do it with love, but I say what I feel and I carry through with things after I say them. I have to be careful, and think carefully about what I say - so as not to LB, but I have learned that If I don't talk, it comes back later much worse.

I hope you are able to help your marriage improve, but if not...............

SS

SS
What you said makes perfect sense to me.The question I ask myself daily is "Why do I NOT have the strength to walk away" I know I am not happy,I know I want so much more so why is it so hard to leave.

I have told my H often that our life has not changed his A has only made it worse and if this is the case WHY IS HE NOT WILLING TO CHANGE THINGS??

He never really answers me.
He has been drinking alot more,this has always been an issue in our M,to me it is so simple it is a problem so change it.
After dday he gave me his list of all the things he did not like about me,things he would like to see a change in to help our M,to help meet his needs I full filled his list and even tho it was not always what "I" wanted it was a matter of meeting "HIS" needs not mine so I did them.
He could not do the same for me,it did not feel comfortable to him so he did not do it.

So because of all of this here we are today.
I wish there was an easy answer to my situation,it is not as bad as many here but still it is not a healthy relationship.
I do hope that very soon I will be able to post that I found the strength to do what is right for me.
I am happy to report that I am doing more for me.It has been a long time since I have been able to do this so I do see small improvements in my life,wish I could say the same for my M. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I wish there was an easy answer to my situation..........

I think it is human nature to wish this. I think it is human nature to tend to stall if there is not an easy answer - and to hope one will come along. I think you, Sue, and FBOW are better than that. I think you will find a way to effect a change.

Remember that we can't help someone else if they refuse to be helped. You can learn, and grow, and improve you, and you have been doing that.

I just wanted to say that if you can't find an easy solution, don't be afraid of the hard ones. I don't think you are afraid of the work - I think you are used to that.

I am searching for the words to best encourage you. I think you understand - this is encouragement - as much as we can give it across the net.

If you know what you want, then go after it. If you know what you don't want, figure out how to do away with it.

There are two sides to it - and both are needed.

I continue to pray for you too - for the best possible outcome.

SS

Thank you SS
I do aprecitiate the words of encouragment you will never know how much it does help me.

Somedays I think I can just go on after all this is how it pretty much has always been but other days I think to myself I want so much more than this.

I have told my H on more than one occasion that his A changed the rules of our life and now he must be willing to live by them also.

As far as him knowing my needs,I have told him and told him,he will not do the questionaire from SAA,he will not go to MC and he will not read the books I bought so I really dont know what else to do.In his mind its over(the A)we should not talk about what happened we should just go on like nothing ever happened and we will be fine.
I told him this is one of the biggest problems in our life,we NEVER talked about problems,we hid them so that everyone thought our life was grand.I feel because of this,that is why we are having some of the problems today that we are.

He was not happy,I was not happy we did not talk to each other about it instead he found someone else and had an A.Our son has problems,he turned to drugs.As much as we have done to help him we really never talked to him together as parents to try and figure out what was the root cause of this.When he was in the program I would go out for the family C sessions but my H rarely would go.

Because of this history in our life I feel that by him wanting to sweep this under the rug like everything else one day it will come back and bit us in the behind.I guess this is my biggest fear.

Hi, this time a link to a general interest article, I think it was reprinted in several newspapers:

Infidelity article

Little to report on my own sitch yet.
Hope you had a decent weekend.
Mine wasn't bad.
FBOW

Hi FBOW
I will read the article,I was surfing the net yesterday and found an article about the pain of infidelity and the hard road of recovery,it stated that very few couples who choose to work thru it can do it without some kind of professional help,I sent it to my H in hopes he would read and respond.
He read it and did not say a word about it to me.

Things here are not good,my H even told me his way of dealing with this is to avoid.I let him know that him avoiding me all this time has made things worse not better.
Not sure what the future holds for me but it is starting to look more like we may end up seperating.

Where is the article located I could not find it??