Hi Ginger,
(and everyone else too.)

It is hard enought to live life when nothing big goes down, but you have really been working hard at things. I hope you get a little bit of a rest soon.

Still praying that your H will get it and help you.

It takes a lot of guts to do what you are doing, and though we hope it works for your M, I believe you have a happy future no matter what your H chooses. The sad and lonely feelings won't last for ever.

Let us know how everything else is going - and see you around.

SS

hi SS and everyone else - i left a message for Ginger earlier this evening - I have not spoken with her since last weekend - she was stronger and laughing somewhat, so this is a good sign for her -
I will tell her (read posts) when I speak with her, and express all your concerns, prayers and hopes for her -

I hope everyone is doing well - staying strong and focused - may you all have a peaceful and wonderful week!
God Bless!

Hi everybody

Just thought I would show my support for my dearest friend. She is a very brave person who deserves all the happiness which I am sure will reach her door shortly.

Keep that chin up Ginger and smile, it will make you feel better when things get on top of you. You are a very special person, believe in your self.

You are never far from my thoughts and I hope we will all hear from you soon. Your H needs to wake up to himself and realise what he is losing.

Speak to you soon

Your friend

Well you wont believe this they finally figured out how to hook up my service <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am ok.....my H came to visit this week first visit since I found the phone# This time I had no expectations and no hopes of how I wanted things to be and it seems to make things easier.I do not think he will truly ever change,the drinking continues and his attitude that this will all just go away is still there.

I do feel the distance between us tho,we sit in the same room and say nothing,we talk but it is just about everyday things this was never a problem for us it is the real issues in life that brought us to this point that still go unspoken and I just keep quiet there is no point of trying to talk about them it will just be a fight.

He feels like a visitor here,and that is what he is,I think he is very surprised at my independance and the ability to take care of myself,he always thought I was with him for his money(I did not know he had that much)now I think it bothers him that I do not ask him for any.We went to the store each picking up the items we needed and when we got to the check out we payed for them seperatly I asked him if that felt strange and he said yes it does.

Maybe the reality of all of this is hitting him now I really cant tell but for me I feel how distant we are and fear it will only grow greater with each day we are apart.I never thought I could live without him in my life and now wonder if I could ever live again with him in it all the time.

Thank you all so much for all the support I know I have a very rough road ahead of me and there will be good days and bad ones but like always I guess I will survive.

Hi Ginger

As I have already told you it is fantastic to have you back. You sound positive and focused on your future and that is a very good thing.

Your H is stuck in his old life but you have the courage and strength to move forward and this can only be better for you.The drifting was bound to happened as you are moving on but he is not.

You will be happy again and you will look back to this time and wonder why you stuck it so long. You are a very kind and gentle person who deserves every bit of happiness coming to you.

Great to have you back Ginger.

Love

Hi Ginger!!

I am so pleased by the courage and independence you are exhibitting. I actually believe that if your H has any hope of changing....your actions will be the catalyst for that. He may instead become more and more "separate" or move on....but somehow I doubt that. For a long time...he was able to take you for granted...convince himself that he could neglect you and that you would still stand by his side. Now he knows better. What he does with that information is completely up to him. If he's strong....he will use this time wisely to be a better man. If he isn't...he will continue to spiral...and you will already be a safe distance from him. I just don't see HOW he can fail to notice what a treasure he has lost in you. You are such a jewel!

((((((((((((((ginger))))))))))))))))

Thanks for the votes of confidance I need them.

Last night was hard,all I saw in my H was the same old person nothing new and that just sends me back to the place I dont want to be,he was willing to change for OW,a new hair style,loss of wieght,shaving off facial hair(somthing I found out later she hated was facial hair)almost our entire married life he always wore a mustache and suddenly it was gone.I pointed out to him how he was willing to change even if it was just small things to please her and all I was asking for was the same concideration of my wants,needs and desires.
So of course he asks me again what I wanted him to do(as if I have not told him enough)and again I hear I will try harder.

I feel that because of the amount of time that has gone by since the A and the way I still feel that I may not be able to ever have that relationship w/him I so desired and felt we could achieve eairly on if only he would have been willing to do some changing to.

Well I better run I am off to work.......time to forget about life and all of its problems if only for a few short hours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ginger,

I'm glad you are doing so well even though it's hard.

I have a feeling that your H doesn't change because he knows that you love him just the way he is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . I know you would like otherwise. It's amazing how lazy they get in the M with physical attractiveness. My H went from well groomed and gorgeous to last year shaving his head bald and sporting a goatie which made him look "like he could kill someone". He's better now that he's grown his hair back. Hair definitely softens his face.

This reminds me. I don't mention to hijack your thread. But I have to ask....

Star,

How's your sister? I've asked several times on my thread but have had no answer.

Ginger,

Welcome back to the Internet World. We missed you.

It sounds like you are becoming an independant woman and loving it. I am sorry that your husband seems to have missed the boat, but you are on a fantastic voyage where you are learning to love, have faith in and respect yourself. That is much more valuable than anything he can give you. It seems that your husband is standing in amazement at you (that is a good thing). But who is to say that if and when he decides to change and fights for you that you will want to have him in your life and settle for what you had before. Seems to me that if you guys work this out it has to be on your terms now, not his. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he was willing to change for OW,a new hair style,loss of wieght,shaving off facial hair </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't worry about this. He was making himself in to someone else to impress her, it was a mask. You don't want something fake. do you? You want something real even if that means a little extra weight and some facial hair.

I guess my point of the things he did to change for OW was this........it took time and effort to do all of this he showed me that he is capable of change even if it is little change,but for me he does not want to do the work.

After dday I asked him all the things he would like to see different in me,he told them to me and I went to work to change and do the things that he felt he needed in his life so that all his EN would be met.In turn I also told him the things I felt I needed and would like to have my needs met.......this is where my point about change comes in.....he did not do ANY of the things I asked because it meant it would take some work on his part,all he ever says is "I'm sorry I will try harder".

Nothing ever changes tho,even w/this last visit he knows that I would like him to cut down on his drinking,I feel a small thing for me to ask of him,but it seems he is just drinking more and more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I feel so sad and lonely today,I think today is going to be a very hard day...I just cant stop crying. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]</small>

Ginger, ((((((((((hugs))))))))) first - you know that I am here for you - to listen, to cry with, to support, to give you strength when you need it, to laugh, to hope,,,,,

I'm online if you see this and want to chat -

I see YOU have thought things out very well, and you seem to be running straight and level.

It seems to me that the drinking is one of the big ones here. I don't imagine much will change while he still has that problem.

You have been lonely, and you have been wondering if things would ever change. What are you doing ON YOUR END to change your life for the better. Are you getting results yet - that is, are you happier, and less lonely, and feeling better emotionally?

SS

I am happier in that I dont think of the A when he is not around.I am happier living in the city instead of that small dumpy town I had wanted to move for so long and he never would.So I guess the one thing I did for me was move.
I love where I live so that makes me happy.

I am still as lonely as ever and at times I dont think I will be able to handle the loneliness.

Right now I dont have much time to think of me and what I want,to be honest I dont know what I want.

I do know that I want to be in love,to feel special to someone to feel that I am the most improtant thing in someones life,I dont know if I will ever feel any of those things in this life time.

I am very stressed out.....a lot of stuff going on w/my son,with my teen D not understanding why we do some of the things we do for him,my oldest D getting upset w/her dad over her brother it is all just a mess and I feel caught in the middle trying to make everyone happy and not being able to do it.

Hi Ginger

Just want to say that we are all here for you my love. Remember why you did this. Remember that you were not happy back there with him. You are moving on and you are frightened just now but you have done the right thing for YOU!!

Kids? who would have them!! Can't you sit your D down and explain how you feel just now? Try to make her understand that it is more than just her in the family. Let her know that you need her support throught all this, make her feel that she is an important part and that you will not get through this without her help???? Long shot but it may work for you Ginger.

Remember I am here for you too, to listen and give a shoulder to cry on. I am afraid it is not so easy for me to pick up the phone but......

Love

Hi Ginger,

I hope you were able to wake up this morning with a smile on your face because you are in your own bed, in your own house, going to a job you enjoy with no one to pull you down.

When I read what you wrote:

I feel caught in the middle trying to make everyone happy and not being able to do it.

I thought, of course you're not able to do it. It's impossible to make everyone happy. Nor should you. What about Ginger? How about spending your energy making Ginger happy? Want to fall in love? How about falling in love with yourself? You will have you no matter who is or is not in your life.

This made me think of a book I've read recently, "The Disease to Please". The description reads:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bestselling author and frequent "Oprah" guest Dr. Harriet Braiker offers help for anyone who has ever felt the resentment of giving 100 percent to others and getting nothing in return.

Featured on NBC's "Today," "The Disease to Please explodes the dangerous myth that "people pleasing" is a benign problem. It is the first book to treat people pleasing as a serious psychological syndrome, and it breaks new ground in its approach to offer a cure. Dr. Braiker offers a 21-Day Action Plan for curing the Disease to Please. A daily psychological workout and skills-training program, it will help readers replace the compulsion to comply with a more conscious and reasoned choice to care. "The Disease to Please includes: Extensive case studies Diary and journal formats to help recovery An effective three-stage short-term therapy approach. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another author I have found inspirational is Dr. Wayne Dyer who talks about reality as a perception. Our attitudes, fears, desires, etc., are all based upon our perceptions and our expectations. It exists because we focus on it. You find what you seek.

To give you an example of this, I tested this hypothesis myself last week. I hate and fear spiders. I was walking down the street one morning. As I past a tree, a spider fell down and crawled onto my forearm. I freaked. I took the newspaper in my other hand and hit it away from me fiercely. I didn't even want the newspaper so I threw it in a recycling bin. Afterwards I could still feel the sensation of crawling on my arm although it was no longer there. It disgusted and nauseated me. I felt my arm was dirty. I had a great desire to scrub and wash the offending sensations away. The feeling existed because I focused on it. I came to see that this was a great opportunity to test this hypothesis. I began to focus on my other arm that felt good. The more I focused on my "good" arm, the better the other one felt. Then when I turned my attention to my "bad" arm. I could still feel the dirtiness although diminished. I refocused on the "good" arm. After a few minutes, the "bad" sensations had completely disappeared. I didn't wash my are afterall.

I am not telling you this because I want to diminish your sadness, loneliness or grief. Your feelings are justified. What I do want is to encourage you to focus on what makes you feel good. "Focus on the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil" (Michelle WD). Fake enthusaism if you have to. It's Ginger's time, a happy time. You find what you seek. It's time to seek happiness within you because you are strong, loved by many, have countless qualities to share and offer any lucky individual with whom YOU decide to experience that.

I also have heard of a clinical study that people with chronic depression can almost "heal" themselves by simply smiling at themselves in a mirror for a few minutes everyday and telling themselves ILY.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> SMILE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We love you. {{{{GINGER}}}}

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

Thanks SAB and Kat,

I will try and do these things, take small steps,I know I have a real problem always looking at the big picture instead of breaking it down into small windows and attacking them one at a time I have always been like this.I can remember when I was younger and I would see my house torn apart not knowing where to start to clean it,it would over whelm me almost to a point of panic then I would have to sit and litterally only look at one room.It was the same w/my new job I walked in looked at the sea of clothes and wondered how will I ever learn all of this but I did start to break it down and it has helped and I think I have almost mastered my area in just 1 short month.

I know I need to look at all that is going on in my life the same way stop looking at the whole picture and what might or might not happen in the yrs.to come.

I will try to start doing this today.

And I do a have real problem trying to be the pleaser,always trying to please everyone I have always been this way even as a child.I think I will try and find that book and read it.Thanks!!!

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]</small>

Ginger,
It is good to hear from you on a regular basis again. So glad you are setteled, and that you have a place to live, and a job.

Sometimes it is good to look at what we have, not what we don't have.

I think SAB hit it rignt on the head. We don't know what will happen long term, but you can find short term success and happiness if you focus on what you need now, and make it work for you.

Your H? You can't control or help him without his consent. Your children? We worry about ours too, and do all we can, but after all, they have choices.

Lots of people continue to pray for you, I hope you feel the strength.

Do your days off change all the time, or do you get the same ones each week?

SS

Hi SS
My days off change I am still working retail,but I love it,it is the one place in life I feel that I do a really good job.My job has very little stress,altho the job I left was fun and not real stressful I was a manager there here I am just an employee with not all the responsibility of a manager.

As for the kids and the H,everything you said was so true,but still it is so hard.I do think often of what the IC told me the time I went about loving 100% that you do not always get back all that you give I guess I struggle w/this still.

When I talk to my H on the phone he seems happier living like this.....apart.I guess it is not having to deal w/the everyday things of married life all he does is make a weekly deposit into the bank to cover bills and about every other week comes to see me for 2 days,in a way it is now probably the perfect marriage situation for him.
I guess I thought along w/so many others that if I did finally leave he would do a major turn around because it would be such an eye opener for him but it was not,after all he tells people that he lives here too just works over there(where I just moved from)
Some days I wonder what planet he is on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

SAB,

I'm sorry chere...but I missed all of your questions about my sister. I am sad to report that she isn't doing very well. After that horrible incident where the she was assaulted....the burns she received have been slow healing. She was in the hospital last week with bad infection and she is very weak right now. Keep her in your prayers. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

he tells people that he lives here too just works over there

This says so much. You are still the centre of his world. I just wish he would treat with the respect and love you deserve. He still thinks you will always be there for him even if it's not in the same town. What an eye opener it would be for him if you divorced him! Not that I'm saying you should. But something tells me you've thought of it more than once.

I have discovered I have the same problem. I'm a fixer, an accomodater and a caregiver. There's nothing wrong with these attributes except combined with a weak sense of boundaries. It gives people like your H, mine and others license to think that we were put on this earth to take care of them no matter how they treat us. In our own ways we have improved ourselves, stood our ground, made it very clear how this is not going to continue yet it's still a struggle. Like Star, I'm finding my Taker is saving my M. I'm finally getting some help from my H on working on our M as a team. It took me telling him that I was willing to walk away from him and our M to let him manage on his own to do it. It's important for me to remember that I have to continue to kick my H's butt more often and speak up more (a 180 for me) although my stomach churns when I do. MWD was right that at first doing 180s feeling wrong. But they do get easier over time. I also find that by doing them I love myself more too. Then once the 180 becomes the new "same old" behaviour, it's difficult to backslide from these hardearned changes.

Star: you and your sister are in my thoughts and prayers {{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>