Oh ginger,

If our spouses could only fathom or appreciate how much work we actually do to keep our Ms and ourselves together. We fight because it's worthy fighting for. I believe that no matter who we end up with (them or someone else) or alone, that what we do makes us a worthy spouse--because we've earned it. I know that no matter what happens, I can look at myself in the mirror any say honestly that I am worth it. There was a time I couldn't that but now I can without any reservation or doubt.

Keep doing what you're doing with your communications with your H. Change the level that you dance to because you change it. I admire your changes. If you model the behaviour, he could eventually follow your pattern. If he doesn't, his loss. You will know you are capable of changing for the better and that's what counts.

I'm off to eat turkey this weekend since it's Thanksgiving (again). I also have an MRI on Sunday for my back. I'm a little nervous but I'm trying to find what I seek.

I'll talk to you next week. ((((HUG}}}}

Have fun,good luck and thankyou <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have not gotten to the point of saying "I" am worth it,"I" deserve more.But I am working on it.

By changing my reaction to things and not being so predictable I believe like the book says that he will change the way he comunicates w/me and he may not even notice it at first.It may not happen over night but it may happen.
I can not change him and that is what I have been trying to do for yrs.I can only change me and how I react to things and by doing this he may decided to make changes if for no other reason than the fact that I no longer react the way he expects me to.

Well H is here for a visit.I am trying my best to put into practice all that I am learning in the book.
It is not easy.

I feel last on the list as always.We went out to dinner spent more than I thought but we should then again I must remember this is his love laungue to buy things,he is just like he use to be before the A,very flirtatious going on and on w/the waitress while all the while I sit across the table.I kept quiet about it.
We get home and he is passed out asleep before I even get my face washed the way he acts you would think we were living together 24/7.
I layed down in bed and the lonlieness seemed to take over my body.I did not sleep well having awful dreams of him w/other women.

This morning he wakes up and gets ready to leave to go help his brother all day,I work tonight so no time spent w/me today.

I tried to talk to him about how this made me feel and he just walked away,I said that was rude to walk away while I was still talking his comment was "Oh I thought you were done".

It is so hard not to burst out in anger when he continues to treat me like this.
I just dont understand why he can not treat me special,or put more value into the little time we have together.I thought we were suppose to be working on restoring our M not tearing it more apart.

Sorry to go on but I really feel frustrated right now over all of this.

Thanks for listening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Ginger !!!!

Well H is here for a visit.I am trying my best to put into practice all that I am learning in the book.
It is not easy.

So why should it be easy for you, it's not easy for the rest of us either ! If you were watching me while you read this, you would see me grin, and wink. Lets just say that since we are married too, we probably understand this pretty well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


I feel last on the list as always.We went out to dinner spent more than I thought but we should then again I must remember this is his love laungue to buy things, he is just like he use to be before the A, very flirtatious going on and on w/the waitress while all the while I sit across the table. I kept quiet about it.

Of course he flirts. He is really manly, and everyone likes him, If you don't believe it, he will show you - which he did.

"Hey, look at me, I am cool. Why don't you like me? Everyone else does." And by the way, you ought to thank me, look how much I spent on dinner.


We get home and he is passed out asleep before I even get my face washed the way he acts you would think we were living together 24/7.
I layed down in bed and the lonlieness seemed to take over my body.I did not sleep well having awful dreams of him w/other women.

I am so sorry for these feelings. I believe everone has them sometimes. I know I do. It's that feeling of "will they ever get it, will it be like this forever?" I have them too, but usually the next day I feel better - until it happens again. You are not alone, my W sometimes feels the same way, and we are doing pretty well.

I suspect, that he is looking for admiraton. You have a hard time admiring him right now. If he is looking for that, what is he getting from you?

Remember, if this is 99.9 percent his fault, and .01 percent your fault, you can only work on that part, you can't directly change him. I am not blaming you, I just want you to look at - well, at changing the dance.

This morning he wakes up and gets ready to leave to go help his brother all day,I work tonight so no time spent w/me today.

What I wish is that you could not just change the dance, I wish we could rip the whole dance floor up by the roots, and transport it someplace where he couldn't leave until he worked these things out. Since we can't do that, we'll have to find another way.

I tried to talk to him about how this made me feel and he just walked away,I said that was rude to walk away while I was still talking his comment was "Oh I thought you were done".

I wish I had a dollar for every time my W did that to me in the last 6 months alone. What is it with that, anyway? What are they thinking? If I even look away she says "are you listening?" But when I am talking to her, She'll dial the phone, walk away, start talking to someone else, etc, etc, etc.


It is so hard not to burst out in anger when he continues to treat me like this.

Yes, it is hard. But, you and I both know it doesn't work, so we have to try something else. The hard part, is what do we try?

I have been trying helping her more, being more kind, less angry. It seems to have an effect, but it may take me 40 or 50 more years to see if I want to stay married to her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I'll let you know how it works out.

I just dont understand why he can not treat me special, or put more value into the little time we have together.I thought we were suppose to be working on restoring our M not tearing it more apart.

He doesn't know. He doesn't, but since he won't listen, it will be hard for him to ever find out.

Remember that they seem to pay attention to OP really well, but the other side is that OP is paying really close attention to them too. When someone tries really hard like you have been trying, it is hard not to feel cheated. I suppose the bottom line is that we can go on trying, or we can quit. Since you are not single, I assume you are still trying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sorry to go on but I really feel frustrated right now over all of this.

So you are sorry because ???
You may not realize this, but we think the world of you, we like you, and we enjoy listening to what you write.

Perhaps you don't know, but you have value in and of yourself. You are somebody, you are you, that person that we like, and that we come here to talk to. You may not know this, but we come because we understand all these things, and also, we just plain like talking to you.

Your H hasn't read the books, and he has a long way to go, but he has value also. He may be made of silver, or gold, but either one will will take a lot of refining before it is worth much.

Thanks for listening.

SS nods, and says "you are very welcome." Which of course, you are.

Thanks for sharing, you really are more than you think. Lets keep working on this. OK?

SS

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> This is me reading your reply SS....I am not sad just very touched. Thank you.

I'm tired of being his door mat.Today I ended up doing all his laundry again,while folding his clothes I got the strangest feeling.Like someone else had done his laundry.It made me think of his dad who worked out of town and would come home every week or so for a few days......he had a woman on the side where ever he worked.

We had not seen each other in 2wks knowing my H as I do I expected him to attempt SF last night,he did not......he just fell asleep.Last weekend he did not call on any night during the weekend.I know my mind is probably just working over time but it is a strange feeling.Maybe I am just looking for trouble when really there is none.It is so hard to trust.

Ginger,
Can you tell us more about changing the dance. Are there things we could help with?

SS

I'm tired of being his door mat.Today I ended up doing all his laundry again,while folding his clothes I got the strangest feeling.Like someone else had done his laundry.It made me think of his dad who worked out of town and would come home every week or so for a few days......he had a woman on the side where ever he worked.

Sounds like he may be his father's son. BTW Why are you doing his laundry? Maybe this is a dance you can change too. He sounds more like a college kid who comes home to visit with his laundry but doesn't spend much time with his family because he's too busy with his friends--exactly the way he's treating you.

ginger,

I'm confused....you're not living with him but he drops off his laundry?????? Come on chere! If he IS doing something on those nights he doesn't call....aren't you enabling that by letting him have the comforts of being taken care of...but not taking care of YOU!!

Dawlin', please don't make me come up there and shake you!

Dawlin', please don't make me come up there and shake you!

Star,

I know this is serious. But I have to respond to this. The mental image just has me howling with laughter. Thank you!

Ginger,

I second Star's motion.

SAB, ginger,

One time my grandmother had to get a shoulder replacement and my brother Skippy and I were cutting up in the house. She yelled..."Don't make me come in there and slap y'all with my new arm!" I love you ginger...but when I heard you were doing his laundry...that's what I wanted to say to you. Of course it would have been senseless to you since you don't know my granny...but the sentiment is the same.

It's funny....but did I ever tell you about my grandmother? Her name was Cora Louise XXXXX. Or so everyone thought. So when I was born, I was named star*fish LOUISE XXXXXX after her. Imagine her suprise (and mine!) when she tried to get a copy of her birth certificate...only to discover her middle name was NOT Louise....but Virginia. (Darn, I could have been star*fish Virginia! much nicer I think!) Turns out, there was another teacher who worked in the school that her daddy used to date. Her name was Virginia...but when her dad went to register the baby's name....he never told her mother that he changed the middle name...for all her life she used Louise. By the time she found out...both of her parents were already deceased...but I'll never forget her saying (with a toss of the head and a wink) "Jus' call me Ginger!" LOL

I can't help but think it's not a coincidence that my ginger came to mind when talking to you.

Ginger,

You seem pretty quite. How are you?

H just left I really am not being that quiet!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Star.........most Gingers I have met have been Virginia's I never knew how they got Ginger out of Virginia but me I am the real thing not a Virginia.I think its the "SNAP" in me that gets me into trouble <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well this visit did not go well,I know it was me.I just cant pretend that things are not like they use to be they are not there are some things that I am more sensitive to now.

Yesterday I find out that his brother has a son just 2months older than his daughter who is just turning 3 this month.I have never heard of this child before,this means his brother had his wife and another woman pregnant at the same time.And thier family acts like this is normal and ok.I know it is between my BIL and his W but still there my MIL is acting like the good grandma to this child and she never even treated my kids all that great.Things like this end up putting me back 3 steps.

H brought me a different computer he wanted his laptop back,no big deal really but this morning as I am logging on it goes right to his MSN messanger automaticlly no big deal I just need to change the name to mine and when I am doing this I discover "2" new msn and hotmail accounts that I knew nothing about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Ask me how angry I am right now?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It is stuff like this that makes it impossible for me to go forward.
I am going to try and get into these accounts before he calls if I see any signs that is it.
I guess finding them was the first sign right??

I will write more later gotta go figure the passwords out.

(((((Ginger))))) - I'm here for you if you need any help with the computer and newly discovered accounts - stay strong my friend -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it goes right to his MSN messanger automaticlly no big deal I just need to change the name to mine and when I am doing this I discover "2" new msn and hotmail accounts that I knew nothing about. [Mad] Ask me how angry I am right now?????? [Mad] [Mad]

It is stuff like this that makes it impossible for me to go forward. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Define "forward"! It's stuff like this that should be EXACTLY what it takes to go forward! Forward with YOUR plan to stop doing his laundry and build a life that isn't dependent on his dysfunction and dishonesty. Forward with life. Forward with things that don't revolve around stuff like detergent, but instead around fun and spirituality!

First step....don't even BOTHER to find these passwords. Their existence is proof enough that your husband has a secret life...why burden your soul with the details.

((((((((((ginger)))))))))))

Well no luck w/the passwords so far.
I told him what I found of course he says he knows nothing about it,that these are old and he has not used them for a very long time.

Well I tell him to stop treating me like I am stupid I know that I have used this computer before and those accounts did not show up.They would only show up if they had been used resently.It saves the names automaticly after you have logged in once.

I dont even know what to say right now.I dont even know how I feel.It is a sad thing when even your feelings have been stripped from you.

I guess I'll come back when I can think straight.
Thanks all for your support
talk to you again real soon.

Well what a weekend........
My brother got married last weekend,and like I said I knew now would come dealing w/my dad.
Well it happened friday.It went about how I thought it would.
At times I felt like a little girl sitting there while her dad was telling her of life,scolding for things that she did wrong.Don't get me wrong he was not mad at me,but yes he was angry more so I think over the fact that I was hurting.Like most dad's I think he always thought his little girl could have done better when it came to getting married.He has always supported me in my M but I dont think he really ever has accepted it.
But he is one that is always right,you can not talk to him and this is the part that is hard.

He would bring up my mom (who has been dead for 24yrs)and how rotten she was and how wonderful he was for staying.I guess he was comparing himself to me and my mom to my H.
I dont see it that way however I see my dad like my H only worse(if you can believe that)and my mom and I are very much alike.

Well I made it thru with him,now pretty much my whole family knows about his A.

As for me,I have been doing pretty good over the last few days.
Life never seems to get better tho,I have not been getting as many hours at work as I need,and my H calls yesterday and says that he blew a head gasket on his car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I swear if it is not one thing to deal with it is another. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

he blew a head gasket

Too bad this wasn't the mental kind. It may have done him some good. Wishful thinking, I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm glad you survived the weekend. It's amazing how these guys (your dad included) have their warped sense of reality. The important thing is it's over.

Today is a new day. Have fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Thanks for the laugh SAB......I needed that!!!!!!

You're very welcome, Ginger. That's one of the reasons why I'm for you. Glad to see you can still laugh even at stupid attempts at humour.

Found out about my MRI. I do have a bulge on my the discs in my lower back. Dr. says there's nothing I can do differently to make it any better. Only surgery if it gets worse.

What did you do for you today that made you smile?

I just spent the day with the grandkids.My little 2yr old can always make me smile.She is the bright light in the darkest of days.

Yesterday was not a good day for me,not really A stuff just life stuff.It all got to be to much when I found out how much I had to pay on my insurance and was not expecting it.H's car,then the insurance me not getting more hrs at work it all got to be to much yesterday.

Sorry to hear of your back I do hope that you are doing ok.