i found out in Feb that my w was having an A with a co worker. I confronted her with it and after a lot of tears and crying she confirmed it. The stated reason was because this OM was having M problems and she wanted to comfort him.
I told her then that by giving this Om such comfort because of his M problems did she think it wouldn't affect ours??
she seemed a bit stunned by this would you believe it?
I was so angry & hurt that I could not stay in the same house with her. If I had I'm sure I would have been screamming at her and God forbid even pushing her around.
I stormed into our bedroom and packed most of my gear and told her I was moving into our rental home which happened to be empty at the time.
For 3 days I would not talk to her as I was so angry it would end up in a shouting match, but eventually decided I had to talk with her.
We met in a licenced cafe for lunch as i thought being nuetral it would help keep me cool. Losing my temper wasn't going to help.
she again told me the same story & added it was not love, that she only loved me and that it was some kind of misguided loyalty......yeah sure
She was visibly upset and kept saying I'm sorry, but really I wondered if she was sorry for being caught out or sorry for the affair or sorry for causing me so much pain.. I really did not know how I was ever going to trust her again & told her that. In the end we agreed to go to mc. That took another week.
I'm going to leave it here right now, just thinking about all this is so draining, I'll finish it off later and bring it up to date sfter some sleep

Hello,

Did I understand this correctly? Your wife claimed to love you but had an ongoing sexual affair with a co-worker to comfort him since he was having marriage problems and this was done out of misguided loyalty? I wonder how she would have responded if the roles were reversed and you had said this? Seriously, this has to be one of the dumbest excuses I have ever heard. You said she seemed surprised when you said by her comforting him this way it would bring problems to your marriage?
I think either way you are in big trouble. First, either she is still lying to you and wanted to have sex with this guy risking your marriage and your health in the process. It seems apparent this would still be continuing if she had not been caught. Second, if what she says is really true then is mentally impaired. Either way I wish you luck.

C'mon, Bryan, everyone knows that WS's say things that make no sense at all. My wife was still defending some of the ridiculaous statements she made on DDay for 6 months afterwards. I let it drop. Somewhere around two years after DDay, she mentioned in passing when she read a reply I made to someone on this board where I mentioned what she had said, that she thought her statements were "ludicrous". Although everyone knows how painful and harmful an affair is for the BS, we don't really talk much about how harmful it is to the WS - but I would say that my wife was way beyond confused - I would say her soul had been twisted. It took a long time to heal.

That said...maybesingle: Click on the link in my signature line. It will help get you far down the road to understanding what happened and why, tools to evaluate your MC, and tools to decide whether or not you want to stay married.

As for the trust issue, perhaps this excerpt from another post will help you: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> …I knew that people who get divorced once are likely to get divorced again, and usually for the same reasons, and I did not want to find myself in the same place some years down the road. But, I was not sure I could overcome the pain, I had no idea how to re-establish trust, I frankly didn’t know if I could forgive her, and I had no desire at all to go back to the way things were, because frankly they were pretty miserable (even pre-A) for me

So, the first thing I did was go to God and repent of a couple of habitual “minor” (in my eyes) sins, so there would be nothing between God and I that would get in the way of our communication. I spent many hours in prayer asking God to show me my sin. I think at some level I thought the A was my fault. While I no longer think that, that time of humbling myself before God was really crucial to our recovery. Because, I HAD sinned, and had gotten so distant from God that I was unaware of many of my sins, so He did show me. As I agonized over what my wife did to me, it became clear that I had done almost identical things to God. That helped keep me from self-righteousness and arrogance which are poison to any recovery. Also, if I expected Him to forgive me, I had to forgive her. That got me a long way down the forgiveness road, but forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate things. The pain and trust issues remained barriers to reconciliation. It turns out the pain fades with time, if the actions that produced it are not repeated. That leaves trust, and trusting that the actions will not be repeated, as the sole barrier to reconciliation.

As far as I can discern there is really only one approach to re-establishing trust, and a couple of well-established ways to get there. In both cases, the bottom line is: believe their actions, not their words, at least until you have seen a consistent pattern of their words and actions being aligned for a period of many months. That necessarily means you have to be more involved in their lives so that you have the ability to verify that their actions and words are cohesive.

The path to get there, according to Willard Harley, is to have no secrets from each other, and to use the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) in all your decisions. Once you see your spouse consistently use the POJA, and the two of you have learned to understand each other and communicate with each other well enough to implement it, you will trust them when they are out of sight, too. Perhaps ironically, one thing that will convince you of your spouse's honesty is if they tell you things they know will hurt, instead of lying or keeping silent to "protect" you. So this process will likely not be painless, especially since, if you are like most couples, it will require learning a new way to communicate. Change is hard.

A second path, promoted by Carder in “Torn Asunder” (and the younger Harleys, too, I think), is for the WS to really dig in to the "WHY?" of the affair, and in gaining that self-understanding, communicate to you both why it happened, and how they will change their behavior in ways that you can verify and that will prevent them from having another.

Of course, these two paths are not mutually exclusive. I view them as complementary, and think “Surviving an Affair”, by Harley is extremely helpful in figuring out important parts of the why, at least as far as the answer involves unmet Emotional Needs, and it almost always does, especially for a woman who has an affair.

The fallacy is the belief that unmet EN’s “cause” affairs. If that was the case, I would have had the affair, not my wife, because my EN’s were less well met in our marriage than hers.

Unmet EN's do not cause affairs, they cause lousy marriages. If you read Harley thoroughly and carefully, he does not say unmet EN's cause affairs, either, though it is a so common a misconception among his readers that I would say he should do some re-writing of his material. Reading SAA, it can be easy to conclude that unmet needs are the reason for affairs. Not so. Affairs are entirely the responsibility of those involved, and the reasons vary.

Our MC worked w/ Bill Harley for 8 years, and according to him, in about 80% of MEN'S affairs unmet EN's had very little to do with it. Yes, there were usually unmet EN's in their marriages, because no marriage is perfect. But, having the wife find out about and meet his most important EN's did not stop the affairs from re-kindling or stop the husband from having another. Harley is aware of this, which is why his plan for recovery is a lot more complicated than: 1.) Take the EN questionnaire. 2.) Meet your spouse’s EN's. Our MC said that in his opinion, for that 80%, if the wife had been meeting the husband's top 5 EN's PERFECTLY, the husband still would have had the affair. If you want to learn more, read "The State of Affairs", by Todd Mulliken particularly the chapter on "The Double Life Man". Though the percentage of women who have this type of affair is small, it is not zero. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thanks Bryanp & john39

It does help to know others have been through it. In a way Bryanp I felt exactly like you said about that reason she gave me - total bullsh*t. john39 your comment about her giving me any stupid reason at all seems about right to me now.

I will try those books and web addresses, thanks very much for that.

The mc was pretty good at least, I got a referral from one of my HR managers who did counselling himself and told me this woman was very good, actually a psychiatrist who lectured at the State Uni.
We meet together for the first one and then separately later in the week. The sessions were set up twice a week on Tuesday & Fridays at 5.30 in the afternoon. WW had a number of individual sessions to go too as well.
At my individual session she asked me what I felt right then, told her F*CKING ANGRY, disgusted, hurt, sick at heart, everything was just so mixed up . When she asked me what did I want to do right then I said I was not sure …but I could hardly stand to be near WW at that time. She told me that was not that unusual and a fairly average emotional response to such a situation, as if there was any real ‘average’ response to something like this in the first place.
At our joint session she suggested VERY strongly we both get tested for STD’s right away, at least WW looked ashamed at this though it could have been just embarrassment, didn’t trust any response from her at all.
So we did and all was clear thank God.

By the end of March I was still living at the other house but we were talking a little bit. However it was restricted to domestic things, the kids, school etc. Now speaking of our 3 kids B 13, G10, B5 I made sure I was seeing them a lot, more than when I was living back at our home in fact. I told them they could ring me ANYTIME and I would drop whatever was on and come to them. In fact they all did test this for a while ringing me at work and I did come right away no matter what. I wanted to keep them out of WW & mine problems as much as possible. When they asked me why I as not living at home I said it was because Mom & Dad had a few problems but it was nothing to do with them. We both loved them very much. At least I hoped she did. But it is so very hard for them.
In the first week on March I had the OM traced and got his home address. The investigator spoke to his wife on my instructions and told her what I knew. Apparently she then gave the OM an ultimatum to leave the state with her or she would take their kids & go by herself. He left with her in the second week of March. So much for any feelings about my WW if he ever said anything at all to her. She has not told me in any event. Until he left I had WW investigated as well. In our first mc WW committed to never seeing or talking to the OM again but frankly I didn’t believe her. The investigator was able to confirm no contact outside WW work and could not confirm in detail if there was any in her work place. I guess it was the best I was ever going to get . If I had been able to confirm any contact I am sure I would have simply filed for divorce.
At all the mc’s WW still insisted she loved me and wanted us back together. When I asked why she had the A she seemed totally confused about it. The counsellor who had WW permission to discuss the sessions did say that during their sessions there seemed little to point to anything in our marriage/relationship which would indicate any area of particular issue. It would seem there are some deep seated issues within her from when or how was still unknown. Didn’t help me at all. I just felt it even more put our marriage as something of less value in her thinking.

So April came around with us in this sort of limbo, kids upset & unhappy, mc seeming to not get anywhere, except finding out the affair had been going on for over 12 months. That has been very hard to accept on top of everything else. You would think there would have been some sign or change from WW over that time, but I swear I saw nothing, that her behaviour towards me was not any different than what I can only describe as loving & supportive as in all our years together.
I think that perhaps it makes it even worse to me.

The counsellor is saying that WW is departmentalising the ‘sex’ with OM from the ‘love, making love and family’ with me, that makes it ok?????
I told the counsellor it seems as if WW cannot see what it has done to me and to us, mc agrees that she does not seem to be able to understand why I am still so angry & hurt. It’s as if she is thinking well I stopped all contact, A is over, I said sorry, lets get on with our happy lives. I can’t accept that, no it’s not that I can’t I damn well won’t!!!
Look lots of things went on at these mc sessions but at the end of it all she says she doesn’t want me to change, says I do show her support & love, that sex is good, she felt close and part of me even during the affair, we have no issues, so I am left with WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY????????????
I told the mc that WW probably won’t admit even to herself why she did it. MC said that may perhaps be true but had some concerns for WW behaviour. She suggested that we suspend the mc sessions. She did ask WW to continue sessions with herself or if WW wanted she would refer her to another practitioner Well to date WW has continued with her while there has been no mc session since the 3 rd week in April. Of course I’m not privy to any of that so unless WW ends up telling me I have no idea what is being discussed.
On 3rd may I moved back home into the attached granny flat which has its own kitchenette, large bedroom, lounge and external access. This came about because the kids were very upset & really wanted me around. WW begged me to consider them and to see for myself what they were feeling. She was right so I moved back.
Things are uncomfortable when we talk. WW try’s to engage me in the family chit chat like we used to about each others day etc but I’m not really responding much. I committed to eating 2 meals a week as a ‘family’, I put the kids to bed as I always used to do & that has helped them a lot. I suppose they were feeling very insecure. I have my pc connection now in the flat and insist that WW does not come in unless invited, a emergency, or bringing kids to say goodnight and take them to bed.
Its bearable that’s about all I can say.
The counsellor has asked that I give 12 months before committing to any irrevocable decision on staying or leaving & getting a divorce. For the years together and the kids I’m willing to give it that time but it is so bloody hard. Part of me just wants to say stuff it and leave. Right now I’m not sure that I want to stay married to this stranger that my WW has become.
I mean until I can get some reasonable explanation of why she did this, how can I ever trust her? My trust is so low that that if the kids were not tiny mirror images of me I would doubt who the real father was.
I just feel stuck in this limbo of hurt, anger, pain & distrust.
Well I’m going out tonight with the crew from work, most of us are vets you see so we are going to have a few drinks and talk bull for a while. I think it will do me good and I have the taxi booked so no stupidity like drink driving.

Hello again,

It sounds like you have been trying very hard and I commend you for this. You have been trying to help your wife through this. I guess I am such a cynic but having a wife having a sexual affair for 12 months and who maintains there were no reason for it and that you were a good husband to her would be simply too painful to bear. In addition, her feeling that she does not understand why you are still hurting also says a great deal about her. Based on these comments I do not see why she would not be jeopardy to having another affair in the future since there was no reasons given for this one and her lack of understanding of the pain that you feel.

To be able to compartmentalize her sexual affair for a year without any change of attitude toward you and your family is very disturbing. Either she is a stranger now or you never really knew her at all.
I hope I am wrong but this sounds so bizarre. I think you need to protect yourself and your children. Something seems so out of the norm here that is just does sound right. I have no advise but just protect yourself. I wish you all of the luck.

Bryanp
thanks for your reply. Yes I have the same reservations as you. I will giver her this, she has remained a committed and loving mother to the kids, I did do a bit of snooping with the schools but all is normal as far as I can see. I had a child psych speak to the kids about the situation, no details they are too young to know about, but just the separation between us parents. Bit ashamed to admit it but I wondered/worried if she had been abusing the kids during this 12 month period. I mean if I missed the affair what else was I missing. Nothing came up from either source to indicate issues like that so thats a relief.

However, I did wonder if the doctor was trying to give me a hint when she said she was concerned with WW general behaviour and wanting her to seek further treatment which she is now doing by the way.
I feel, perhaps want is more accurate, to think there are two to three options.

1. There are issues in our M which she will not admit to herself yet where we both set up the M making it easy for her to chose an affair;(God knows I've tried to think about that going over the last 10 years of our M, but I'm looking at it from my side)

or

2. There is a medical/behaviourial problem requiring profesional treatment;

or 3. A bit of both of the above, an issue caused some severe behaviourial problems.

Look I don't know, is there really anything what we used to call just old fashioned LUST that would account for this affair? I mean from all I have read here it would seem lust/sex may be a result of whatever damaged the M but not a reason for it????
I just want to know one way or the other. How in the hell can she hurt me any more by telling me the truth. Even if it takes some time for her o find it I think I deserve to know. Even if it is to throw it all back on me for whatever

Well besides saying a quick hello or two we have not seen each other for the last 4 days so I haven't taken much notice of her body language in any way so not sure how her sessions are going. It does seem to be a mutual avoidance right now....don't know if that's a good sign or bad one.
The doc is supposed to review her case before Friday and perhaps I wil get to learn something then.
Sorry if I jump all over the place but it all seems so surreal. I keep hoping I wll wake up from a nightmare but it never happens. My thoughts are all over the place.
This whole thing just sucks

Hello once again,

I think you were wise to pick up on the statment from the doctors that she needed further treatment. This clearly indicates there is something terribly wrong somewhere. You were also wise to check up with the school about your children. The lack of sincere remorse and understanding of your pain is very confusing. I would be tempted to ask her how she would be feeling if the roles had been reversed? The lack of empathy toward your pain is difficult to understand.

I am going to recommend something that I never ever recommend and it probably will not work but your situation is so unusual I am going to suggest it anyway. I suggest that you contact the OM and talk to him and see (I know that this is a longshot) if he will tell you his observations about your wife and whether she talked to him about you or whatever in order to try to get an understanding of what she was thinking and feeling. This is just a thought for consideration and I know that this will be difficult.

I cannot imagine what you must be going through asking yourself what is really wrong with her, is she a threat to herself or the children, or is she truly a stranger who has played a role and you never truly knew her at all. Again this seems so bizarre especially with the comments of the doctors. I think you need to think about various options based on various information that you will found out about. I do wish the best of luck.

Maybe Single,
Sorry that here but glad you found MB.

What was your W's self-esteem like prior to the affair?

Did she come from a divorced family? If so, was infidelity involved?

IMHO, there are other reasons as to why spouses have affairs than just the opposite spouse not meetingneeds, but hey I don't have the PhD.

How did you find about the A?

Is she willing to answer your questions? If not the why at least the when where and how? She may not consciously know. or she's afraid toi tell you.

Have there been any life changing circumstances in her life? Did she show signs of depression?

cwmac

I would not contact the OM for the world. You want to lose total contact with him. I would not want my WW's ex-lover to know anything or any conditon of my wife and our situation. If contact is made then the relationship that was broken, it will have a reason to exsist again. You want the scum bag to think that she does not care one iota about him.

You can figure this out, but you've got to talk to her. It is so hard to trust again, but she may have some issues that you don't know about, maybe an abusive father or relative. It sets her up for this sort of thing. I thought I was doing a good job in our realtionship, but my outbursts of anger were draining her love bank account. You will never understand the rationale that your wife made to have sex with another man. My wife said it was to imporve their relationship, the only thing is it back fired when I found out and it ruined everything.

So the big step for both of you is to be open and honest about who you are and want you want to be. You see, the little boy wants to play with the little girl and vice versa. You can't do that until you quite hiding from each other. I get really depressed over the affair and I let it get to me and that is a love buster for her. Does she deserve it? Do you love her? If so... no she does not deserve the anger, really no one deserves our anger. The anger will only destroy someone else. The alternative is to forgive, not once, every day. Don't be the accuser all the time, you've got to let it go. I'm telling you an affair will not make sense, ever. No matter how many details you have, it is never enough.

MS: Two things - The book I mention in passing in my signature line, "The State of Affairs", by Mulliken, mentions a type of affair that he classifies as the "Double Life Man" affair. 99% or so of the people that have this type of affair are men - but your wife may well be in the rare one percent. The "compartmentalization" is the telltale sign. Individual counseling is the way to go in that case, because the greatest problems are really internal to the individual rather than with the marriage. Carder's book also does a better job at getting at those issues than Harley's. That doesn't mean Harley's approach in "Surviving an Affair" is not helpful - it is. It just is not the whole story.

Secondly: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=001455

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The book I mention in passing in my signature line, "The State of Affairs", by Mulliken, mentions a type of affair that he classifies as the "Double Life Man" affair. 99% or so of the people that have this type of affair are men </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">John could you elaborate on this Double Life Man" theory ..sounds so much like my WS...

Well, it is worth reading the book. Only $10. however, the VERY short version: it is a spiritual problem between God and the person, not a problem between them and their spouse. Our MC (also the book's author) said, sure, unmet needs are a part of most mens's affairs, because no wife is perfect, but in about 80% of men's affairs, that is not the promary driver. It is PRIMARILY a lack of integration in the man's life (the compartmentalization thing), a lack of appropriate boundaries in their relationships with women, and an unhealthy view of sex.

Women who have these types of affairs also have an unhealthy view of sex.

Thanks to all who replied.
You gave me a lot to think about.
Bryanp I don’t think it would be good for me or frankly for him if I tracked down the OM now. His poor wife is probably in the same position as me so I guess I have brought enough problems for her there. Frankly if I saw him I’d probably hit him right now.

Cwmac you asked a lot of questions & really made me think about a lot

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> “What was your W's self-esteem like prior to the affair?”</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well after very careful thinking I have to say that up until 2 years ago WW was very independent, had a lot of confidence, and had done a lot that would put off many wives due to me being away in the Army. Since then there have been times when she has seemed to want some approval when making decisions. I thought I supported her by encouraging her to reach her own decision, maybe I screwed up. who knows

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> “Did she come from a divorced family? If so, was infidelity involved?” </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No her parents are still married. No issues I’m aware of.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How did you find about the A? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In a very simple way and by complete accident. I fwd our home phone which has voice mail to my office as I was waiting for a business call and as was not sure if I would get it on the home phone or work phone. Got notice of a new voice mail message an played it. It was the OM being VERY explicit about a sexual encounter with WW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is she willing to answer your questions? If not the why at least the when where and how? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No she has said nothing. When I first found out & was almost yelling at her I did say to her that I bet she brought him back to our bed room, she just burst into tears again so I reckon I got it right. That’s just another reason why I will not go back to that room ever.

[/QUOTE]Have there been any life changing circumstances in her life? Did she show signs of depression? [/QUOTE]
Well yes there was. We lost a child about 2 and a bit years ago while I was still in the Army. WW was in the 3rd trimester and developed diabetes. As a result we lost the baby. So she was depressed of course for a while. But she was being treated in a hospital at the time.

AK, I just can’t do this Plan A stuff. Right now I wouldn’t mean it & she would know it. Don’t know if I ever will. I’m not overtly angry at her since the first day I learnt of the A but inside I’m just going from anger to sadness to depressed, around and around.
There are times when I have hated her.

Even if I find some reason that may explain it all, not sure it will change my feelings, perhaps only my reactions to it. Guess its still a wait and see.

John39 your description sounds so much like WW right now. For the life of me I cannot think of issues that were within our M. Not saying there may not be any but nothing has ever been raised & I cannot see one.
Well I’ll look into this a bit and hopefully on Friday I can discuss this with her doctor. She did ring me today to say she would like both of us to come in to see her this Friday. Don’t know what I will find out there perhaps that she wants to divorce or what. Don’t know if this will help us or be the nail in the coffin so to speak.

Well it is supposed to be in sickness & in health isn’t it. So if there is something like that I guess I have to take the word of the expert. If it’s not then I don’t know where we go from here. Depends on what WW will tell me maybe.

Can’t thank you all enough. You all have your own problems and I do hope you all will find your own peace & happiness no matter what happens with my M.
New Outlook I hope you can find out something to help you. You haven’t given up after all that’s gone on, good on you. All my best.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For the life of me I cannot think of issues that were within our M. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Time together.

Have you read "Surviving an Affair"?

John

no not read that one yet.
Have read all on this site about Infidelity.
Thinking alot about what I read. Don't know if it changes much.

We had a screaming argument a few hours ago, the first harsh words since I confronted her with the A.
She wanted to know why I had abandonded her...I had abandoned her???? and left the family home. I told her I would NEVER live in a house where she slept with the OM & continued to do this until he left to go to another state with his wife while telling me it was all over - a guess by the way which she didn't then deny. Said this was the best compromise I could live with right now - living in the attached granny flat - she went pale and started yelling at me calling me a SOB, F that F this, she started crying.........started to tell her to go get stuffed.....wanted to say so much more but remembered the bit about trying to keep temper in check............so I walked away.................instead said I was going to have a coffee if she wanted to talk.................she just burst into sobbing again. Frankly I don't know how to feel, I'm too numb I think. All I could do was sit there with her while she cried
Well tomorrow is the big day with the doctor.

Maybesingle,

I can think of at least three reasons she had the affair and there might possibly be a forth. Interestingly, none of them have to do with you, but they may have been accentuated by you being in the military and gone for periods of time.

The reasons are:

1. She lost was very depressed and lonely. The does not mean she did not love you, but she was very vulnerable.

2. She has diabetes, which means she probably was NOT diagnosed for a period while she had it. You may not understand this and the processes are quite complex, but for example if the liver starts to malfunction, one often sees symptoms that look like dementia. In the case of diabetes it is not clear how it affects people but body chemistry does affect thinking.

3. She lost a child, which ALWAYS affects women in powerful and sometime unforeseen ways, including feeling like a complete failure and perhaps looking for validation.

The fourth possibility is that she was abused or molested earlier in her life. Often people like that "act out" without any clear reason, especially if coupled with the reasons 1-3 which You DO know about.

If these are the case, she will NOT understand why she did these things because the actions were NOT logical even to her.

By the way, you don't need to be doing plan A, the affair is OVER. She is trying to get you back into recovery. I think you need to talk to the Doc, about the pychological effects depression, undiagnosed diabetes, and loss of a child can have on a woman. I am a male, so I can not speak to you from experience, but I will tell you this, I have seen a few women in my life that just completely lost it when they lost a child and tried to escape from reality, which is what this A could have been. But the reality they were trying to escape (there deep deep sorrow is still with them).

You say you don't know why, and I am saying you have at least 3 why's the would explain this and possibly a fourth. Talk with the Doc. It seems to me, you need to spend some time looking outward. Your W needs help, she is getting it, and hopefully her depression and diabetes are being addressed.

You signed on and commited to love her, she has been very ill and my guess is that she does need your help and love right now. Talk to Doc, do some homework on these issues, but also know that family tragedy such as losing a child or even a close relative is often followed by behavior such as your W has exhibited.

You have a lot of reasons to think that this is a one time shot and REALLY NOT ABOUT YOU at all. You actually have a much better prognosis of recoverying your marriage than many here, don't pi** it away with your pride. Your pride should reside in you doing your job well, not in how she failed HERSELF, HER KIDS, and YOU.

Can you understand the guilt? She realizes you are hurt, she sees that the kids are hurt, and she knows she did this herself. She has NOT blamed you. THe woman is trying, and clearly she is struggling, she could use your help EVEN if you decide to divorce her in a year. Help her. You will NOT regret doing it.

If you want some idea about what abuse can do, go read Stunned Dad Fast Recovering's posts and stories.

Your marriage can be saved and it seems to me you have a better shot than most. Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

So how do I describe today. Pretty much a stinker all round. Just full of ‘surprises.’

So we both went to the doctors who is treating WW. She said firstly your wife wants you to know that the A was not your fault, however Doctor also wished to discuss the issue with me in private a bit later. .
So I think to myself you think I'm nuts too then
but anyway...
Doc explained a whole lot of technical terms and behaviour that’s is typical & rarely seen etc etc etc...she lost me a few sentences ago.
The bottom line is that WW is suffering a deep repressed form of depression due to the loss of our baby. Usually such a thing is more visible and exhibits behavioural issues more out in the open. WW did not do that. She believes she failed me, herself and our family by having diabetes and loosing the child. Why did she turn to someone else? Doc believes it was because she felt she could not turn to me as I was one of the people she had let down & that to turn to me would be just placing more loss and responsibility on me & I didn't deserve that.
So I deserve this???
I was slowly switching my gaze between the Doc and WW, WW had her head down, tears rolling down her face, the Doc was sitting with her hand on her chin watching me like a hawk looking very thoughtful, so what were they expecting me to do I wondered jump up rub my hands together & say well that’s that then lets get on with life?
Told WW & Doctor I can understand in my head what has happened but my feelings & emotions are …… well it’s hurt and anger. What I needed was time to absorb this and understand it fully. Most of all I really hurt because even after I found out & she told me it was over and would never see him again, I know she slept with him right up to the day he left with his wife for another state.
I have no trust, don’t know If I ever shall either.
Had to say that & put it out in the open. WW just nodded her head.
So then it was my turn for a talk with the Doc by myself. Yeah like I was looking forward to that.
I asked a lot of questions to try & convince myself I accepted all this , but I didn’t, told her that. So she asked me what I wanted.
I wanted everything back that I had lost though I knew that was only wishful thinking. So she asked me how I’m sleeping and told her only getting 3 to5 hours a night , then she asked the $64000 question, wanted to know how I was doing with the PTSD I got from the war. Well it’s about the same but like that issue, this one will take time, but I haven’t got that anymore.
So I showed her the other ‘surprise’ I got today. I’ve just been called up on 72 hours notice. That means on Tuesday I have to report to Campbell barracks. Well I knew it was a possibility just the timing is not that good is it.
So on top of everything else I have to tell WW & the kids I’m going back to active duty.

I’ve been sitting here at home thinking about how I’m going to tell them, what does this man for WW & me, I just feel resigned to it all now. I don’t know if our marriage can withstand this new stress.
I don’t trust her now in my sight, how in the hell could I trust her from thousands of miles away?
Do I even want to try to put myself through all that?
In my own stumbling way I’ve tried since February when I found out, I have put up with a lot, I just don’t know if I have the strength any more . My thoughts keep jumping all around the place, I’m not sure I’m even making sense.
I’m too tired right now to even maintain the anger, just does not mean much. Doesn’t matter to say I’ve done nothing wrong or that I’m a good husband. I keep wondering if any of that is true
Will time apart now do any good or just push us further apart.
Anyone got any ideas???? I'm out of them right now

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: maybesingle ]</small>

JL
just read your post. I thank you for it. It seems to put in sensible words a lot that the doc was telling me about WW's reaction to the loss of the baby.
Seems it's all going to be a bust now, I've run out of time

Hello again,

I am so sorry what you are going through. When it rain it pours. I am a big believer in therapy but sometime take a little what they say with a grain of salt. There is something that jumps out at me which is extremely disturbing. Your wife was caught in the sexual affair and immediately showed remorse and promised never to contact this married man again. At this point most women see the light and understand how lucky they are to be given a second chance.This apparently did not occur. She continued to lie to you and continued to have sex with this man up to the day he left.

I am sorry but her actions indicate quite clearly she had never any attention of giving him up and was quite content to continue to betray you while accepting your forgiveness and trust at the same time. The bottom line it seems to me is that you are the door prize that she is stuck with because the married man she wanted left with his wife. Apparently it did not bother her in the least that he was married also. I believe in giving a person a second chance but she continued to lie to you and continued to have sex with him and putting your health at risk after she was caught until the day he left.

I know you are thinking long and hard but actions clearly speak a whole louder and truer than words as you have seen yourself. I wish you strength. Good luck.

Nah Maybe,

It is NOT all a bust, it is a beginning. You now KNOW why and I believe the Doc and I believe your W knows the reason now. I believe you know all YOU need to know, except for one very very important thing. You have a family that loves you and YOU need to let them do that. Yup, the next part of healing this is to let your W help YOU as you work on forgiving her.

You leaving is NOT good in many ways, but it will force you two to communicate via email and perhaps phone. Often times the WS is more comfortable doing this, use it to your advantage.

You don't realize this yet, but if you can open up communications with your W NOW, and develop those communications skills, learn to talk about the hard stuff, you may well end up with a stronger deeper marriage than you ever had. In some ways this is like basic training or intensive advanced training. It is h**l but it bonds people in very very special ways. You KNOW this, why don't you think it could work in your marriage? It can, it does, and it is seen here frequently.

I cannot tell you the number of people that have come back here and stated that while the A was the worst thing they ever went through, the work to get through it has made their marriage far better than it ever was.

You may have been a great H to your W, but you did NOT know of her deepest fears, or deepest insecurities, you do now. Don't you find it ironic that she had an A because she felt she hurt you too much to turn to you for help??? She did NOT know how strong you were and are. I think you don't know how strong you are. It is time to find out Maybe, it really is time to find out.

I say you go for this, deal with the pain, give yourself time to heal, but reach out and help your W heal, it is best for your kids if you do this, it is best for you if you do this, and it is best for your W if you do this. And in the long run you will have a marriage that will sustain you and your family.

You don't realize this my friend but given all that has happened, you are in a very good place to rebuild this marriage and have it restore your soul.

Go for it Maybesingle, you won't regret it. You will regret it if you quit now. I can assure you of that.

God Bless,

JL