Maybesingle,
I'm so so sorry for your situation but there is something I just can't hold back on anymore. DON'T listen to what Bryanp has to say. He seems to love rubbing salt in wounds. Check out some of his other posts. He constantly repeats.... with glee at times.... what betrayed men tell us here on MB that their wives have done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> You already know what she has done. She made a terrible choice in her life that has changed everything in both of your lives forever, BUT, she is sorry. I think that Bryanp was so terribly hurt and now he feels the need to hurt back. He always reply's to men who have been betrayed and graphically describes what happened. I actually think he encourages most betrayed husbands to react negatively towards their WW's. Just remember Negative begets Negative. YOU KNOW EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED ALREADY. You don't need to be reminded. You are looking for help not a reminder of what she did. This is all going to take time for both of you to heal. June 29th will be 4 years for me in recovery and I will NEVER get over my H's infidelity, however, I am getting past it. I know exactly how you feel. It never goes away, but I have forgiven my H. He is truly sorry, as I'm sure your wife is. Sometimes people just do stupid things for stupid reasons. Please, don't give up right now. Put things on hold. You cannot properly deal with your situation with what is going on right now anyway. I think you are very brave and I'm thankful for the men and woman in the service who sacrifice so much for our freedom. I know its hard to trust your W right now. I still don't trust my H fully, but you have to start somewhere. And showing your W that you are forgiving will only make her love you even more. Especially when she fully realizes exactly what damage she has done, and trust me, she will one day be fully aware. When that time comes, she will beat herself up enough for the both of you. Good luck and God Bless. Its a long road, but worth the travel.

Thank you everyone who replied. I have a lot to think on.
A part of me thinks like Bryanp so I know where he is coming from.
But maybe I have nothing to lose now. For all I know the next time I return Stateside it will be wearing a wooden overcoat. No guarantees in life are there?

So I don’t know if my heart is really in this or not, It is so much easier to just go away and leave things as they are. But the kids deserve better from me.

Well I asked WW if we and the kids could have dinner tonight all together as I needed to talk to all of them. I think she might of thought that I was going to say I was leaving the M but agreed readily anyway.

I tried to keep it light during the meal and answered pleasantly every time WW spoke to me. Anger just seemed a bit self indulgent right then. After dinner the little guy came over and sat in my lap and out of nowhere told me he loved me. Just one of those golden moments I guess.
Sort of took the wind out of my sails and I didn’t feel hurt right then, just sad it has gotten to where we are.
So gently as I could for the kids, I told them I would be leaving for the Army on Tuesday as I had gotten my 72 hour notice today.
My 10 year old daughter asked me very quietly if I was going to the war again, so I told her yes that I would be. She wasn’t really sure how she was supposed to react I guess, just sat very quietly looking down at the plate on the table. I told her not to worry that I would be away for a while and then I would come home all ok. She just looked me in the eye and said ‘how do you know Dad, you weren’t the last time’.
Poor kid, my princess should not have to go through this again.

WW was crying quietly and saying ’ my god, it’s not fair, it’s not fair‘, well I know all about that I guess. Perhaps she did care then. The oldest boy just quietly put his arms around his Mom and hugged her. Damn he’s grown so big. A young man in a few years.

Well not the way I wanted it to go but maybe there’s no good way.

All just such a mess. The kids haven’t left my side at all. Just want to touch me and hug me.
And...I don't mind at all.
As for WW and me we'll just have to see how the weekend goes and then take it one day at a time.

Well take care all & I'll try to keep you up to date as opportunity provides.

I also found BryanP's comments too damming. Your wife has made a HUGE mistake. She knows it, you know it. Your kids know something. It is so terrible living with the consequences of an affair. I also was faced with the knowledge of my husband bringing his OW into my bedroom. It seemed such a violation of my privacy. She probably looked through my drawers, she used my hairbrush. You would never in a million years have thought my husband would do these things. As a very good friend said to me, if he could do this, then nobody is safe. There's a tiny bit of me that thinks I could never have had an A, but there's also a part of me that feels it should have been me. I deserved the excitment, the thrill, the sex. Not him. Felt like getting myself out there and having an A myself. What has rationalised my behaviour in all of this madness are my children. I can tell that you are deeply connected to your kids. They deserve for their parents to give their Marriage their best shot. It is a good foundation to start to work as a family again.

You can buy a new bed, paint the walls, re-do the bedroom. They are material things that can be replaced.

Apart from your very last post, I will dare to say there was a touch of arrogance in your tone. Do some soul-searching and see if there is anything about yourself that just might make your relationship a better one. I knew our marriage was stale and I was partly to blame. It was not an excuse for him to have a 12 month affair but I can see how my behaviour may have led him to believe that perhaps the grass was greener elsewhere.

I am so sorry you have been called away from your family at this terrible time in your personal life. I wish you the best of British luck in your work and your relationship. It's the biggest slap in the face ever. I don't trust my husband at all. I haven't forgiven him. I don't even like him. But we had something special once and I'm hoping we can recapture those feelings one day. I wish the same for you.

TT you sure did give me something to think on. Perhaps it's the army way of describing things and expressing feelings that gives the touch of arrogance, maybe the blind anger, maybe a guy thing. But I'll think on it for sure. I will.
I am sorry you had a simlar experience, it must be so horrible for you. But you are showing so much courage.
The bedroom well it is more than material TT so much more. I think it's the symbolic nature of her taking the OM there to me that I find unable to accept. I really think I will never accept that. I guess WW did not think of it that way, the bedroom was probably just a place available to have sex. I hope that's the case. It's me thats the problem here & I can't help the way I feel about it.

Anyway thats something we have to face later, can't do it now.

The kids fell asleep hugging me and I got the two youngest to bed. The older son was just too big unless he wanted a firemans lift.....LOL
Had to walk him to bed.

WW had gone to bed a little while earlier, we were very quietly talking general things, I think we both wanted to avoid heavy issues tonight.

Well I went to go sleep in the queen sized bed in the granny flat and must of gone to sleep. Next thing I new WW was standing next to the bed asking me to please let her hold me.
Well i was tempted to tell her to go to hell, but being an arsehole was not going to help us was it. So what the hell, I can draw this out and be an utter [censored] or start facing it. So I simply said ok.

WW had been crying and I felt like a [censored]. Angry as I was, hurt as I was,I didn't want her to hurt. Isn't that strange?
We quietly talked and it took a long while for me to relax. When she got in I was a rigid as a board. She was probably the same. It has been a **** 5 months.

What WW said and what we did is no ones business. But it was all difficult for both of us and no NOTHING is fixed. It may never be fixed. Tomorrow will be one day closer to leaving, don't know how to feel, or really what I feel right now. If I push away the anger what do I have? I have to find that out i guess.

Hi there. It's very hard to give advice without sounding critical. I'm so glad you weren't offended by my comments because they were sent with only good intentions.

Going back to the bedroom thing. I think that when people are in the throes of affairs, all rational thought goes to hell and I'm sure that both our WS's didn't think too deeply about using the marital bed. It was available, free, private. I could beat myself up over it or move on. Eventually, we may move house and it will be partly because of this but with all the trauma of the past few months, I don't believe it would have helped my girls to have to move house as well. Added stress we could all do without.

I'm so glad you embraced your wife last night. You never know. A spark may be rekindled. Our situation is the other way round. I'm the one making the moves and my WH is like a rigid board (and not in the right places). He's the one that had the A but in the past it was always me that made the moves. Felt like I had to get back to that.

Time is the thing we all need. Once again, all the best. TT

TT I just noticed when you found out. Pls know I realise how hards it's all been for you. That you give me your time to give some advice I relly appreciate especially from a womans point of view. We army types are not usually the most sensitive of guys.
Just being together has not solved anything for me, but like you said you have to start somewhere & as other's have told me it's that or give it away as painlessly as possible for the kids sake.
It's not so tense between us so that's a plus. Being up most of the nights is not her fault thats PTSD if I never made that clear in my posts. That she even has stayed is perhaps a miracle. A half insane wreck was not what she was expecting to come back from the war.

The doc said she separated the A and the M into entirely different lives in her head. I guess that if the expert says that then it happened. the doc didn't do this for money you know, she has done it as a favour to my good friend. So I accept it. But it does not make it any better for me not at all.

Bedroom thing is so hard to get my head around. I guess you had a similar problem. I think even accepting the premise that it was convenient, free and private is not helping.

The very thought of the image of her with another man sends me into a deep and mind numbing anger. I want to puke .
It's months ago but still as raw as then.
The sorrys and I love yous do not help it at all.

Is it normal even after months to want to scream at her and ask why she has done this to us even when I know why?
Guess I just don't know about anything any more.

You know ever since I knew I was going back to the war I don't have any dreams any more like I used too. I'm awake but that seems to be a habit now. Been thinking on this for the last hour or two and realise I'm actually looking forward to going back. Ain't that strange?
Bit like going home.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is PTSD? Is it a military thing?

oh sorry thats Post Traumatic Stress Disorder its very common in troops who have been injured
this is the basics - its a lot though

PERSISTENT REEXPERIENCING THE EVENT(PTSD)
Department of Psychology,US Dept of Defence
Royal Military Academy Sandhurust Uk
Royal Military Academy Duntroon Aust

1. Involuntary confusing of the events lived (MEMORIES)

2. Unpleasant Dreams about those events (DREAMS)

3. Flashbacks, illusions, delusions, other reviviscences (REVIVE)

4. Things that remember the events, are distressing (ASSOC)

5. Remembrance of events causes physiological reactions (PHYSIO)

Criterion C: PHYSIC NUMBING (Ca) AND AVOIDANCE BEHAVIOR (Cb)

6.Since the events, loss of interest in things important in the past (LOSSINTR)

7. Feeling strange to others, a loner in relation with them (STRANGE)

8. Inhibition in expression of emotions
(INHIBEMO)

9. Feeling of blocked future (career, family, own life) (NOFUTURE)

10. Avoid to think of the events and of associated feelings (AVOITHNK)

11. Avoid situations and activities that make think of the event (AVOISIT)and reversal seeking
situations and activities that make think of the event (SEEKSIT)

12. Loss of memories about important things regarding the event (MEMOLOSS)

Criterion D: INCREASED AROUSAL

13. Difficulties to go asleep and to sleep through (DIFSLEEP)

14. More irritated and less cool-headed
(IRRITAT)

15. Difficulties with concentration (DIFCONC)

16. More alert, more vigilant, more sensitive to unexpected sounds (VIGILANT)

17. Startles due to unexpected sounds, movements, contacts (STARTLES)

Criterion F: IMPARMENT IN FUNCTIONING

18. Loss in efficiency at work (LOWEFFIC)

19. Difficulties in social contact (DIFSOC)

20. Difficulties in relations with close persons
(DIFRELAT)

21. Difficulties in daily pursuits and leisure
(DIFDAILY

Table 2. Item set "Feelings of guilt."


1. I feel guilty to be alive while others are dead (ALIVE)

2. It is unfair that I live in comfort while others suffer or died (COMFORT)

3. I feel guilty to have that luck that others did not have (LUCK)

4. I should have done things that I did not
(NOTDONE)

5. I feel guilty to have done certain things
(DONE)

Maybe,
I'm glad you posted this definition of PSTD.

Please hear me out before you get upset by comparison!!!

My IC told me that many BS (myself included) have mild forms of PSTD.

She and others have likened the shock of the discovery of infidelity to the shock experienced by someone who has survived a plane crash or a police officer/ fireman who experiences a difficult crime scene/ fire.

The "survivors" deal with the shock in similar ways. They tend to tell the story over and over to try to get a better understanding. They pull out and examine each piece of the puzzle until each piece is in its place making the picture.

I realize to you, a veteran of the most horrific stress possible, war, this may seem a ludicrous, silly concept. You may think that I'm trying to take away from your hurt by likening mine to yours. I'm not.

If I took my experience and multiplied by 10,000 I think I could get an inkling of the anxiety that veterans must feel.

As A BS, I can relate to the symptons as follows:

1. Involuntary confusing of the events lived (MEMORIES)

2. Unpleasant Dreams about those events (DREAMS)

3. Flashbacks, illusions, delusions, other reviviscences (REVIVE)

4. Things that remember the events, are distressing (ASSOC) All BS can relate to the "triggers" of the A

5. Remembrance of events causes physiological reactions (PHYSIO)

Criterion C: PHYSIC NUMBING (Ca) AND AVOIDANCE BEHAVIOR (Cb)

6.Since the events, loss of interest in things important in the past (LOSSINTR) I was numb. The things that had brought me pleasure no longer did.

7. Feeling strange to others, a loner in relation with them (STRANGE) I think male BS feel the loneliest. Society still expects ment ot have affairs but women. Society laughs at men who "can't keep their Ws happy in bed." Even a word for it cuckold.

8. Inhibition in expression of emotions
(INHIBEMO) The only emotion I knew how to express was rage. Got very frustrated.

9. Feeling of blocked future (career, family, own life) (NOFUTURE) Her A threw me into a midlife crises. I questioned everything: career, family & even my worth as a human being and a member of society

10. Avoid to think of the events and of associated feelings (AVOITHNK) I'd go back and forth between trying to block the thoughts and obsessing over it.

11. Avoid situations and activities that make think of the event (AVOISIT)and reversal seeking
situations and activities that make think of the event (SEEKSIT) Triggers included: snow skiing, the ocean, dolphins, boats and W's best friend. I didn't want to go skiing. I wanted to rent a boat. I'd go back and forth between pushing the friend away and then wanting to be around her.


12. Loss of memories about important things regarding the event (MEMOLOSS) Since the A wasn't a physical experience to me, this doesn't apply, however I think it does apply to WSs

Criterion D: INCREASED AROUSAL

13. Difficulties to go asleep and to sleep through (DIFSLEEP) Would sleep maybe 2-3 hours a night

14. More irritated and less cool-headed
(IRRITAT) I was so irrational it was frightening. I told my W I could relate to people who killed their souses or their lovers. I could also relate to Vietnam Vets who as people say go "postal"

15. Difficulties with concentration (DIFCONC) For weeks I'd go to work, close my door and sit and play with the computer for hours.

16. More alert, more vigilant, more sensitive to unexpected sounds (VIGILANT) At times I was hyper alert, jumpy, super anxious. Hands and voice would tremble.

17. Startles due to unexpected sounds, movements, contacts (STARTLES) Same as above.

Criterion F: IMPARMENT IN FUNCTIONING

18. Loss in efficiency at work (LOWEFFIC) See lack of concentration above

19. Difficulties in social contact (DIFSOC) W and I went to Xmas party. After only two glasses of wine I saw the Best Friend who knew about A. I freaked. I walked outside. Someone said something rude to me and I went uncharacteristically ballistic. Made threats. Left the group. Thought they were talking about me so attacked again.

20. Difficulties in relations with close persons
(DIFRELAT) Felt like I had no friends. Stood alone. Probably caused by the fact that men don't like to discuss problems wheras women do.

21. Difficulties in daily pursuits and leisure
(DIFDAILY) Would sleep through most weekends. Would avoid the regular routine.

Table 2. Item set "Feelings of guilt."


1. I feel guilty to be alive while others are dead (ALIVE) Thought of suicide

2. It is unfair that I live in comfort while others suffer or died (COMFORT)

3. I feel guilty to have that luck that others did not have (LUCK) N/A

4. I should have done things that I did not
(NOTDONE) I second guessed my marriage and the relationship with W

5. I feel guilty to have done certain things
(DONE) Same as above. Felt guilty Thought I caused the A

I know I haven't seen the horrors of battle but in a very small way I have experienced the tricks that the human mind plays in order to try to help it cope with stress.

cwmac

Oh no cwmac
don't think I say it's exclusive to Soldiers not by any means.I just ans it that way in response to tummytucks question because it was from my perspective, the way it is effecting me.

People can get PTSD from many things, some major some minor, from breaking a arm or leg or from a car accident to yes the shock of discovering an affair. I have no doubt at all.

Did you get any treatment and has it worked? I've tried a few things and nothing has worked as well as knowing I'm going back to the war.... not sure that is healthy. Wouldn't have questioned it once but now, well I am questioning everything.

Are you well now by the way??

Maybe,
Glad you understand my post. I've discussed PSTD with a few people and when I say it's not exclusive to veterans or plane crash victims, and can occurr in cases of depression caused by stress in marriage, family or other non-violent cases they look at me like I'm nuts.

I meant to say at the end of my post that yes I've had just a few treatments but they seem to work. At least the cut down on the severity of the flashback and the intensity of the reaction to the triggers. My IC is scholled in hypnotism and other related techniques.

You may wan to give it a shot.

take care, Maybe

cwmac

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

I am maybesingle’s wife
Even his login name hurts like you would not believe.
I have read the posts here, I have seen what some think of me and it is nothing to what I have called myself. He deserves SO much more than I have given him these last 17 months.
There is nothing, nothing, wrong with him or what he has ever done in our M its me just me.
I could not believe the hurt I have caused him. The pain I have given to him. I read his posts and it breaks my heart.
I have said sorry and I have told him I only love him, and it true. I do not blame him for not believing me no matter how many times I say it.
I have no expectation of his trust now but I want it back so much, Please, please give me the chance to win it back my love please, Please read this don’t turn away.
My sickness of the soul allowed me to turn from you to someone I didn’t really care for, just for that reason, I didn’t care for him. I know it was wrong that it makes no sense to you but it was the way I was thinking back then.No excuses my love I did this, it's all my fault.

I know you think I saw him after you confronted me and slept with him, but I swear I didn’t, I didn’t do that. You said I nodded my head when you brought this up but it was not for that my love, not for that, it was because I accepted you cannot put your trust in me anymore I know that. But it was not that, I did not sleep with him again. I gave you my word and I have kept it.

I saw him once before he left with my sister and my mom, you know what she thinks about me doing this to you, she won’t lie, please ask her please, I did not even touch him, I didn’t want to. I told him I did not want to ever see him, hear from him, or have any contact with him again regardless of what ever happened in his M or mine. I said if he tried I would get a RO against him if I had to. He agreed to never have anything to do with me. It is over and dead. I wish it had never, never happened. I hate him as much as I hate myself.

I know you can’t trust me right now, that you cannot allow yourself to be venerable with me anymore at this time, but please give us time to work on this, please give me a chance to build a new life with you. Please for Gods sake do not hate me
I don’t want you to go away from me, not ever. I don’t deserve it but I so much want you to stay with me. Please let me give you everything you deserve.

Especially now, I don’t want you to go back to that horror, but if you do, if you have to, I want you to know I love you more than life itself, you will NEVER have to worry about me hurting you again I’ll do anything, go anywhere, see whatever counsellor you say but please give me this chance. This one last chance my love please, I can never be complete or happy without you, I have no pride, I have nothing without you, let me prove it to you, can’t you give me this for all that we were. I love you and love you and love you ..I’ll just keep saying it until you believe it again. I’ll never fail you again no matter what. Theres nothing more I can say, you are my life, you will always be my life, I'm so sorry I failed you and hurt you.

Crazed,
I have a few quick thoughts for you but then I need to run. I've been on MB too long today and FWW is getting a bit upset.

Shortly after DDay my W constantly said how sorry she was. I got tired of hearing it. It didn't help me although I'm sure it made her feel better.

I told her "action speak louder than words." She started to put her sorrow into actions.

However there was one action that she absolutely refused to consider. She behaved like the typical FWS and refused to answer my questions of the A. That stalled our recovery for months. She just didn't get it.

If he doesn't ask questions, you may want to ask him if he has any. Try to stay calm. If he wants to ask then ask him to please stay calm. If either of you gets upset ask for a break but continue later.

I read a great book that explains why men react with so much rage. (Sorry female BSs I know your pain is real too)

I'll post some of the points later tonight if you'd like.

oops gotta run.

cwmac

maybe -

PTSD is very treatable, and the sooner the better. I do volunteer work with veterans. The feeling used to be that it would go away on its own. Now that has changed. The warfighters are screened and treated immediately.

And the thing about your wife - I think you are reading way too much into her poor choices. I know you are a guy and can't help it, but I feel for her. The sex was probably just a trade-off for getting EN's met. I had a miscarriage and was completely devastated. To many, it does not mean much, but to a woman carrying a baby, dreaming about it, planning, talking to it, etc., it is a terrible loss.

Well, suddenly with you both posting here I feel like an intruder. Will bow out for now cos it's time for me to go to work.

maybe and crazed,

If that isn't a pair of names. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am glad you are both posting. It will help you both.

Maybe, there is something you need to consider. Remember the list of possible reasons I gave you for your W's behavior. I didn't do too bad in guessing did I? Well, it wasn't a guess, especially the loss of a child.

I don't know if you realize this that many many marriages break up over such a loss. One or the other of the parents will NOT handle it properly. Often it is the W. You may not realize this but what they often suffer from is exactly what you described PTSD. Although the child is not born yet, to the mother there is already a deep connection. It is like losing someone from your outfit, they are part of you because you become part of the outfit. Yet, they are NOT your family.


There is a term used around here, it is called "the fog". It is used because the WS often make decisions that are just absolutely stupid and carry no "logic" at all. You have experienced just that. Her using your bed, was entirely "logical" in the fog, because it was convenient and safe. There was NO consideration for your thoughts good or bad, hence there was no intent to hurt you. You were NOT part of the "fog".

The thing about fog and the reason it is used is because you can come out of the fog, the fog can burn off/lift. Indeed it is seen so often around here, that the fog lifts, and the WS cannot believe what they have done and how badly they hurt them and disrespected them. It is very very common.

It may not make you feel any better, but it seems your situation is percisely that. In an odd way you both need to be treated for PTSD.

Maybe my advice is to give her a chance. She has betrayed you of that there is no dispute. She has hurt you deeply of that there is no dispute. She has completely destroyed you confidence and self-esteem of that there is no dispute. But, I think she does love you. I believe the explanation of WHY? And I think the world is about forgiveness and second chances.

ON a slightly different topic, do you know why we have the worlds best universities and people come here from all over the world? We have a reentrant system. We don't expect people to get it right in HS all of the time. You can go to college in your 30's , 40's, 50's, whatever. You canfail out of school and go back. In short it is known that people screw up and a second chance often produces a very very good and mature person that is of great value in life and the work force.

My thinking on this situation is the same. You know the reason, you know she does love you. You know that she understands the pain and the cost of what she has done. You must also know that no matter how successful the marriage is, she will always have to deal with what she had done to you.

Consider a second chance my friend, like college students those with a second chance often make the best students.


Crazed,

As you can guess you have a lot to overcome. It will be tough, but one thing you must do is learn to seek help when you have a problem, not withdraw or seek to run away from it. Your loss of your child I am sure was devastating, but you should have turned to professionals and your H NOT another man. I hope you realize this now, and I hope that you are seeking help for what you have done, but more importantly to address your decision making situation.

I will be quite frank with you. I don't know where your H is going in this call up, but since it seems he is in a combat arm, there is a chance that you WILL NEVER get a chance to make this right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> There is nothing you can do about that. But there is something you can do, and that is communicate with him as often as you can. Explain to him the progress you are making in counseling. AND MOST OF ALL be true to him while he is gone.

I hope that you read the articles on this site and some of the books. They will help you, and they will give you information you will need to deal with the your current martial situation.

I also hope you keep reading the posts here and please post with any questions. The people here will do their best to help you.

Finally, Maybe, I don't know if you get much of a chance to post here before deployment, but I wish you God's Speed, and I hope that you can find it in your heart to give your W a second chance. You will benefit from this, your children will benefit from this, and she will benefit from this.

I grew up in a military family, I was in the military myself many years ago. The life of a military family is tough on everyone, but your giving your W a second chance will do a lot to help your children and her. And I think it will lead to you having some piece of mind. Maybe you are the leader of the family, consider the example you would be giving your children.

Again, God's Speed,

JL

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

after my wifes post I really didn't know what to say. I still have this overwhelming anger and hurt, it hasn't gone.
I didn't expect or know she would post her message, I didn't think she could bare her soul like that........I don't know how to respond to it right now.
Tummytuck you are not intruding,....I really need some advice now from as many as I can get it
I really need it.
perhaps I haven't been listening. all I know her post has been like a bucket of cold water but I still FEEL the same anyway I don't know if that's normal or if it's just me.
What do I do from here? How can we, do we , do I get over this?

I honestly don't think you're ready to give up and walk away yet. You are struggling with so much in your love life and your work life. It's funny but I wasn't madly happy with my H but I never really imagined life without him. I took him for granted. I think we are all guilty of that. My guess is that I will never really forgive him and I have lost some respect for him. But who's to say there's anyone out there who's perfect? I do believe in second chances but unlike some on these boards, I DON'T believe in third, fourth, fifth etc. Get the picture. I am amazed how little the institution of marriage means to some and it is terrible to hear of people who are so bound financially to their partners that they are scared to move on.

I don't think my WH is a bad person and I'm sure you feel the same about your wife. What we had before the A was stale. I really don't want that back. I want something better. My WH wasn't very sexually experienced when we met so I'm guessing that he feels he missed out somewhere. I don't think he found something better - just different. He shows nowhere near as much remorse as your wife. He is far more aloof. I would take her distress as a positive thing. She appears mortified by her own behaviour. I think you should give her a second chance. I just can't help but think they'd be so much sadness if you didn't. Incidentally I live in Asia so I am night to your day. Hence the strange times for my posts (strange to you). Time is the other valuable ingredient. I'm no expert but it is definitely something akin to grieving and we all know how the pain of grief abates over the course of time. That's me done for today!

Thanks TT
you are right, I really don't want to leave.
How do you get over the hurt & pain, how do I get over the image of WW with another man?
It's stops me in my tracks every time, it sickens me.
I can work at the anger, I can work at the pain, but how do I get rid of the image???????

Hypnosis has helped me get over the visions of my FWW & OM.

Just a thought.

cwmac