I failed. I failed you all, who supported me and gave me encouragement, I failed myself in trying to change, I failed WH. He lied to me AGAIN. I tried to hold on to plan A, but I couldn't, and now I'm devastated. I cant leave because of the kids, and I am looking at a lifetime of lies and betrayal. I'm just waiting for him to leave....

Thanks to all who wrote...I'm just so very sorry I let you all down. I don;t know where to go from here.

cc,

Why do you think such a thing! "Losing it" and love busting is NOT failure! It's life and one of the emotional set backs that often occurs during this painful and devastating time in your life. Tell us about it....regroup...let us pick you up by your bootstraps and set you back on your feet. This is just starting chere...so don't give up yet. It ain't over.

(((((((((((cc)))))))))))))))

Just couldn't keep away, I guess. I just don't know what to do....he told me last week that he was backing off with OW, that they would do "platonic" activities, and that they would not meet at her house. Guess where he spent hours last night.....I'm so tired of all of the lies. He accuses me of trying to control him, by "forcing" him into a decision--with the veiled threat that if I "make" him do this, he will make my life miserable at home.

I can't leave him; my kids deserve a real father, and I can't take that away because I failed.

So sorry to hear what you're going through- but there is no rule that says you can't post here if you "fail". Now you need to be here more than ever. I haven't been in the situation you're in now, but lots of others have and have kept going and have succeeded.My heart goes out to you- I do identify with the pain, anger, frustration and hopelessness you feel-please keep posting-we won't give up on you.

You didnt' fail!!!! At one point we all think we fail somewhere in our marriage, but its not you dear.. its him!! He failed... was it you that lied? I do not think so... you that cheated? no.. so uhmm you didn't fail. It's hard to stay on Plan A... very difficult, you just have to hold on as long as you can... You are doing the roller coaster.. sometimes its with yourself.. and sometimes it with the WS.

BIG HUGS....

I am trying to take focus off myself and try to help other MBers just like I get help from them. Even if your marriage doesn't go on... we still want to hear from you.
Please stay withus..... you'll be alright <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear CC - Harudah is right on, please do not be so hard on yourself, keep trying plan A, do it for the amount of time recommended on the website - if it does not work please think of Plan B, you need to be strong, you can do it.
Please keep posting too, you will find there are alot of people here who can help you, will give you great advice. Don't give up and think that you deserve to be treated this way by your H!!!

I know you want a father for your children, but is that the type of role model you want? When the time comes you have to be firm, you deserve better for yourself and your children.

Statistics show if your children grow up in a household where there is infidelity your children are more likely to become infidels themselves when they are older.

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: sl000 ]</small>

cciyer - I really hope this post doesn't offend you but it seems that some "tough talk" might be in order about now. So if it does hurt, please forgive me and understand that there are some things that you both must think about and face. It is time to stop the running from reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't leave him; my kids deserve a real father, and I can't take that away because I failed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you can leave him. He has already left you. Your children DO deserve a real father and not the cheat, wimp, and liar that this "pretending to be a father" person currently is. Is THAT the "father image" you want for your children?

Is that what you want? I know, I know, this early stage is so fraught with wildly swinging emotions, hope, fear, anger, uncertainty. Even your self image takes a beating (i.e.,"because I failed".

You haven't failed. What you are experiencing is normal and part of the process.

I read through all of your postings to date and it brings back memories of how things were for me over two years ago, that stretch of time between our initial d-day and when we actually began recovery (about 3.5 months).

There is no doubt in my mind that the "stage was set" for an affair by the conditions in your marriage. So, yes, you do have some responsibility in that area and is the area that you need to work in changes in yourself.

However, when it comes to a decision to engage in an affair, that is the sole responsibility of the unfaithful spouse. All of the "reasons" for that sort of heinous choice are merely rationalizations to "justify" in his mind his actions and to avoid confronting the fact that only he can make decisions about his own "value system." Now you being fed the classic line of his wanting to "remain friends" with the OW. It can't be done. The friendship line has been crossed and it can't be reestablished.

Since your husband is a Phyician, I am going to make the assumption that he is fairly intelligent. So let me ask him this question...Who is to blame for becoming an addict, the circumstances that he felt were not ideal, or the individual himself? Is an addiction, despite the temporary "good feelings" and the temporary "highs", destructive to the person and all who are around him, or is it something that he is selfishly "entitled to" despite anything and everyone else? Can an addict who wants to be "normal" maintain a friendship with the "drug" or does the drug need to be eliminated from his life forever, for the rest of his life?

Isn't it time that your husband stop lying to himself?

Picking back up on what I said at the beginning, a marriage CANNOT have 3 people in it. Yes, your insistance on an exclusive marriage between your husband and yourself IS a form of putting pressure on him, of forcing him to make a choice. But THAT is exactly what marriage IS. It is a choice that you both make. It is a willing choice. "For better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, keeping myself only unto you, until death do us part." What is ambiguous about that choice that you both made? No Contact with the OW is the only way to go, for the rest of his life.

To go back to medical analogies, what good will it do a cancer patient to refuse chemotherapy, to to stop it prematurely, because it's "painful"? Of course it hurts! Of course we wish we never had cancer in the first place. But REALITY is REALITY and the "road back" must first go through the painful steps. It takes commitment. It takes a willingness to endure. It takes hope, not a guarantee, that the future can be much better and brighter because of the tough work we are willing to go through TODAY, and each day along the way.

Stop making excuses and simply do what is right. Both of you. It ISN'T fair. Fairness has nothing to do with it. It is necessary and right for your marriage, for each other, and for your children. Now grow up and START. The end will come one way or another, so what sort of future would you both prefer?

You mentioned in a previous post that your husband suggested Marriage Counseling and that you were reluctant. Why? What are YOU afraid of? Yes, you will both have to deal with some tough things, but you NEED a professional who is committed to saving marriages who has the experience of dealing with infidelity issues. Your situation is NOT unique. Many have gone before you, and sadly many will yet join "the club." Do you seek out a skilled surgeon when there is a trauma to be dealt with? You may begin in the "Emergency Room" (i.e. MB) but once stabilized enough for transport, you need surgery and the ICU. Start taking advantage of all the help that is available, and stop trying to do it solely as a "do it yourself" sort of thing.

God bless.

To all that wrote--THANK YOU.

ForeverHers: I'm not offended in the least...you have given me a lot to think about. Let me try to respond to some of what you wrote....the counseling is actually something I wanted to do (if I wrote otherwise, I wasn't being clear, so let me clarify)--he doesn't want MC. I told him that if he wasn't ready, then I would look into IC for myself.

As far as a reality check goes...you are dead on right. What you have written really resonates with what I have been thinking of the past 24 hours. I think the explosion (which was wrong of me, I know) came from sheer frustration of feeling that I was enabling this situation. I really regret the anger involved, and all of the unnecessary LB that happened. That clearly has to stop. The anger also came from feeling very powerless....and it's because I'm not stepping up to the plate and dealing with the situation. I'm trying to go back to the same old avoidance crap I have done for the past umpteen years...it has to stop.

I'm working on it....I reiterated that there is no place for a third party in our relationship, and he gets angry and says I have no right to dictate the timeline. I'm not dictating the timeline, but I think in my desperation to "keep" him, I may have been sending some messages that this situation was "ok". It's not ok. He claims that he is still dealing with the "nuclear fallout" ( I was pretty mad! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ) and that he is miserable, he has lost everything etc. I told him that I did love him very much, but part of rebuilding the relationship was communication--not the venomous nonsense I engaged in this weekend, but honest open talking--even if it's something you don't want to hear.

I think he thought he could have it all....he could rebuild the relationship (or actually, I could rebuild our relationship...since he has placed that responsibility on me) and maintain whatever he has with OW. He actually told me that this friendship may be the thorn in my side for the rest of our lives....and now, I'm saying no, it cannot be if there is to be a real committed marriage.

Thank you for the tough talk, ForeverHers--I needed to hear it, and I have been thinking along those lines....and thanks to the rest of you for helping me pick my self back up. I'll go back to my old thread, and try to piece my life together again (and no, not by myself anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) Sorry for the melodrama; I hit rock bottom( or I thought I had, at any rate) on Monday....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm working on it....I reiterated that there is no place for a third party in our relationship, and he gets angry and says I have no right to dictate the timeline. I'm not dictating the timeline, but I think in my desperation to "keep" him, I may have been sending some messages that this situation was "ok". It's not ok. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">cciyer - You are NOT dictating a timeline. HE already did that. The "marriage" ended on the timeline that HE chose. It ended when he engaged in adultery and broke the marriage covenant. In "legalese", it's tantamount to "breach of contract." Whether or not YOU agree to reestablish the contract is up to you, but you also have the right the establish certain conditions to protect yourself, and him, from further breaches of the contract. The first is pretty obvious...No Contact with the source of the problem...the OW. No negotiating on this one.

Oh sure, you can do exactly what I have done over the past two years and decide what to do IF there was any contact after a pledge and No Contact letter. In my case there have been many contacts, and I understand how hard it is to extricate oneself from an addictive relationship. But each time I made it clear that any contact was unacceptable and that if it continued I would reach a point where I simply wouldn't continue and would accept that she, for whatever reason, could not (or would not) stop the contact. But as for me, while I will be patient as long as I see overall progress, I WILL NOT (it's a choice) spend the rest of my life "looking over my shoulder". In a marriage, you are either "all in" (Poker term) or you fold the hand and walk away looking for the next hand to be a "winner."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the counseling is actually something I wanted to do (if I wrote otherwise, I wasn't being clear, so let me clarify)--he doesn't want MC. I told him that if he wasn't ready, then I would look into IC for myself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, I may have misread your previous thread. But here's another "condition" of recovery. Joint Marriage Counseling is NOT an option. You both got into this mess by doing things "your way" and you need an expert to help guide you back and to face some of the difficult things you are both going to have to deal with, with each other and within each of you individually.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really regret the anger involved, and all of the unnecessary LB that happened. That clearly has to stop. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it does have to stop at some point. But, the WS also needs to see and feel the anger. There are some authors who even advocate that part of the healing process, to help the WS "affair proof" the future, MUST see and feel anger as intense as the "good feelings" that the affair made them feel. It IS normal. The operate phrase I would apply here regarding righteous anger over a grievous sin is "be angry, but in your anger do not sin yourself." Remember the thing to be most angry about is the poor choices, the actions, the sin.....not the "less than perfect" person who is your husband.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He actually told me that this friendship may be the thorn in my side for the rest of our lives....and now, I'm saying no, it cannot be if there is to be a real committed marriage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stick to your guns on this one. "Forsaking ALL others" is part of the marriage covenant. Turn it around for him, how would he like it if YOU maintained a "more than just friends" relationship with another man....say his best friend? Would he have to deal with it as a "thorn in his side" for the rest of your lives or would he insist upon you being "his" exclusively?

This is just more "fogtalk" and running from reality. You will likely hear more of this sort of thing for some time to come. Let it go in one ear and out the other, turn it around and put him in your shoes and think about his reaction if you were to say the same thing to him.

Getting out of the fog usually takes a lot of time. Next time he brings this up, ask him why the OW got so upset that she couldn't have him all to herself? Can't you be her "thorn in her side" too? Can you imagine HIS mental state if you both went into PMS at the same time? Talk about a "thorn in the flesh!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

He is NOT thinking rationally and as hard as it is for you to be the "strong one" right now, you must be if you are to eventually achieve the result that you want. If you're not willing to "do what it takes", then surrender, file for divorce, and let him pay alimony and child support as his "thorn in the flesh" for years to come.

Yes, it hurts. No, it's not fair. Nothing about an adulterous affair is painless and fair. The affair is the FACT. Once the "diagnosis" has been made, then you can work on the treatment plan, even if it entails some hard times. You ARE strong, you've already proven that by even considering recovery instead of divorce. You ARE strong, you've already proven that by accepting the brokenness and pain and still getting up and trying again.

God bless.

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

It's interesting...I did ask him what he would do if the tables were reversed.....and he said he would be happy for me.

Fog talk, I know...but it still hurts.

Fog talk AND bluffing IMO...

He would NOT be happy for you if he were the one betrayed! He may THINK he would... (fog) or he doesn't want you to know he'd be devastated (scared, bluffing).

Anyway, you are NOT pressuring him into makign a decision. You are setting sane, justifiable boundaries to protect yourself. He is NOT entitled to keep you. And he will lose you (not you lose him) if he doesn't wise up ASAP.

So you haven't done a perfect Plan A... None of us do, we don't have to, and neither do you. We're just mere mortals doing the best we can. Try again, come here to vent the next time you feel like LB'ing. Do the best Plan A you can for 3-6 months and then go to Plan B. Don't worry about him whining that he can't cake-eat because you set some boundaries. If OW has any sense and self-respect she will be setting some boundaries too. WH will have to make a choice and won't like it - tough!