Well folks, as most of have experienced I am now in the down part of the up and down cycle that I have felt ever since returning from the deployment and hearing the news. I wrote a post on my last topic I'm Back Unfortunately but haven't received any feedback yet.

My wife did complete her assignment but that opened up more doors. I guess that the main battle that I'm facing is making a decision and things are much more complex now that there is a child to think about, due in February.

I tell you that I have never felt like my life wasn't my life but this is the story of my life now, no control over anything and the new assignment I worry about because it seems like we'll only have new challenges.

I basically have found out that I am basically a "rebound" husband, for the most part and not necessarily in her words, and that I am here mainly because she doesn't want to be lonely.

Over the past two weeks we haven't went to bed together at the same time and we rarely kiss each other good night anymore and that doesn't seem to bother me too much. I am just so disgusted at some of the things that have happened and I honestly think that the only reason I am still here is because of the baby which maybe some of you could help enlighten me on this situation.

I don't have a fear of what happened happening again, I just don't think that it should have happened in the first place a long with a huge list of other things from the past and the near past.

It's sickening to me when I think about how we used to be and how we are now and realize that "used to be" was still a lie. I've just sat there and thought, well the difference between now and then is the way I treated her and the way I felt, so if I treat her differently and feel differently then things can surely go back to "used to."

The problem with this is that "used to" didn't know about her still being involved with another man when she proposed the thought of marriage to me, "used to" didn't know that she had thousands of dollars of debt, "used to" didn't know that she had done so many bad things and made so many poor decisions, and the main thing, "used to" didn't think she would ever cheat on him and know better.

Please HELP.

First things first.

Forget about "used to". Things will never be the way they "used to" be.

All the I could've, I should've and I would've stuff just needs to go out the window.

I can't say that I know much about your situation....you say your W is pregnant....is the OM still in the picture? Is your W still in the "fog", withdrawl? And I really hate to ask this....but is the baby yours?

BH:

"no control over anything and the new assignment I worry about because it seems like we'll only have new challenges."

2rn these in2 oppor2nities! Don't let them overcome you.

"I basically have found out that I am basically a "rebound" husband, for the most part and not necessarily in her words, and that I am here mainly because she doesn't want to be lonely."

How real is this assumption? If she hasn't said this (or even if she has), don't just assume it. My best self-advice when I was doing this kind of assuming was 2 tell myself "assume your assumptions are wrong." They usually are.

"I don't have a fear of what happened happening again, I just don't think that it should have happened in the first place a long with a huge list of other things from the past and the near past."

You're "dwelling." You need 2 stop that. Remember that we all remember the past differently, and over time we tend 2 lose the details or mushroom little things out of proportion. The past and the fu2re don't exist, except in our memories and imaginations. Whatever we do, we do NOW. Try not 2 ruin your "now" by agonizing over past events or worry about things that haven't happened yet. You're having a baby? Focus on THAT. Focus on doing things 2 help your W have as easy a time of it as possible. Take pleasure in accepting responsibility. Responsibility is liberating.

"It's sickening to me when I think about how we used to be and how we are now and realize that "used to be" was still a lie."

STOP DWELLING ON PAST MISTAKES. It is adversely affecting your ability 2 live NOW. That doesn't mean forget them. Learn from them, sure. But don't let them prevent you from having a fu2re.

-ol' 2long

Used to is important because used to was genuine love that I felt reciporated and I appreciated, now it's a different story.

The OM is out of the picture, and I'm almost 100% certain that the baby is mine even though the bad side of me thinks that there's a chance that it could be someone elses. I originally wrote a column as JKE called HOW DO YOU FORGET and it detailed everything that had happened, I lost the password and started a new column BetrayedHusband I'M BACK UNFORTUNATELY, they can give you some insight, but I tell you it has been so difficult trying to move on from this because I am just so angry.

I admit that I need help learning to forgive, learning to trust, and learning to move on, but that has always been a great challenge for me.

we rarely kiss each other good night anymore
Then it's time for YOU to take the initiative and YOU kiss her every night before you go to bed.

Do you really want things to go back to the way they "used to be"?

Read the links below.

BH:

A 2ple of 2uotes for you about forgiveness:

Lewis B. Smedes - Forgive & Forget: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve


"We attach our feelings to the moment when we were hurt, endowing it with immortality. And we let it assault us every time it comes to mind. It travels with us, sleeps with us, hovers over us while we make love, and broods over us while we die. Our hate does not even have the decency to die when those we hate die--for it is a parasite sucking OUR blood, not theirs. There is only one remedy for it. [forgiveness]"

Sidney and Suzanne Simon - Forgiveness: How To Make Peace With Your Past And Get On With Your Life"


All the years you have waited for them to "make it up to you" and all the energy you expended trying to make them change (or make them pay) kept the old wounds from healing and gave pain from the past free rein to shape and even damage your life. And still they may not have changed. Nothing you have done has made them change. Indeed, they may never change. Inner peace is found by changing yourself, not the people who hurt you. And you change yourself for yourself, for the joy, serenity, peace of mind, understanding, compassion, laughter, and bright future that you get."

Lewis B. Smedes - The Art of Forgiving: When You Need To Forgive And Don't Know How


"Forgiving does not erase the bitter past. A healed memory is not a deleted memory. Instead, forgiving what we cannot forget creates a new way to remember. We change the memory of our past into a hope for our future."

Beverly Flanigan - Forgiving The Unforgivable: Overcoming the Legacy of Intimate Wounds


"In a way, forgiving is only for the brave. It is for those people who are willing to confront their pain, accept themselves as permanently changed, and make difficult choices. Countless individuals are satisfied to go on resenting and hating people who wrong them. They stew in their own inner poisons and even contaminate those around them. Forgivers, on the other hand, are not content to be stuck in a quagmire. They reject the possibility that the rest of their lives will be determined by the unjust and injurious acts of another person."

Lewis Smedes - Forgiveness: The Power To Change The Past (article, Christianity Today, January 7, 1983)


"To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you."

Lance Morrow - (article, Time Magazine, January 9, 1984)


"Not to forgive is to be imprisoned by the past, by old grievances that do not permit life to proceed with new business. Not to forgive is to yield oneself to another's control...to be locked into a sequence of act and response, of outrage and revenge, tit for tat, escalating always. The present is endlessly overwhelmed and devoured by the past. Forgiveness frees the forgiver. It extracts the forgiver from someone else's nightmare."

excerpted from: http://www.iloveulove.com/wisdom/50quotes.htm

I hope these help,
-ol' 2long

Last night shortly before I left work I told my wife that I didn't want to go home and argue about dinner or who's going to the store, I told her that I didn't want to just sit around and watch the TV all night and look for less boring programs to occupy my time. I told her I wanted to do something.

Well eventually last night she started crying and told me that I didn't have to pretend that I care because she knew that I didn't. She told me that I didn't have to stay because of the baby and that I wasn't obligated to stay just for that.

We talked and I told her that I needed her to verbally tell me what happened that night (she still insists it was only one time but it's hard for me to believe) just like you would tell someone in intricate details what happened when you get into a car accident.

She told me that she got drunk and that they had sex but doesn't remember where or how or anything like that. I asked her how did she know. She said it's because they woke up naked laying next to each other in the living room and a used condom was on the floor.

I asked her how dos she know that he didn't take advantage of her or rape her and she said that she didn't, so I asked her what her reaction was, she said she went into our bedroom and cried all day after taking a shower.

I told her that with other things in her past, to include drug use and multiple sexual partners, she needs to realize that it wasn't the real her, the real "her" that I knew. I told her that the real her I knew was a good person that valued relationships, valued staying sober, valued monogamy.

Basically I told her that I didn't know who had convinced her that all of the evil that had happened in her life was who she really is.

I told her that I am human, and I have temptations and weaknesses and that I fall but as sure as I was sitting there with her, those moments are not the real me.

Well this morning I talked to my friend at work who has been here all along and I told him what she said and he said that's BS (not betrayed spouse either) and that's all he was going to say because he wasn't going to get into this again. I asked him why he said that and he said it was something that he had heard probably from someone who had heard it from the other man.

Now I'm here to say that I do want things to be better but I'm also very confused about what to believe and what not to believe and I don't think that I really can understand what the difference is between them having sex once or the whole time I was gone but the thing that bothers me most is that she still could be lying to me about it all and that is just unacceptable to me and very hard to live with.

I want, in some ways, to ask my friend exactly what he heard and then confront her but then again it could be more lies, it could be more problems, but now it will be hanging over me and I'm tired of hanging my emotions about this whole matter in the balance because I'm worried about hers.

Is there a way that I can talk to her and let her know how hard it is to believe her without making her feel more like a piece of Sh*t than she already does, which is what she said last night.

I told her when she didn't want to talk about that night that if we couldn't talk about one thing, what makes her think we can talk about anything.

Well I'm out of here for today.

BH:

Consider what effect your "approach," when talking 2 your W, is having on her ability 2 feel "safe" talking 2 you about what happened.

Even when you sound "kind", you're sounding judgemental of her. That will put her on the defensive and she won't be able 2 tell you the truth. Remember, 2 many people, particularly people who've had affairs, lieing by omission isn't lying at all. You have 2 GENTLY get through that barrier before you can hope for her 2 open up.

I hate saying this, but your "friend" is a jerk. If he knows something that he's not telling you, then he's setting you up 2 let your imagination take control of you and ruin your chances at getting your W 2 talk 2 you about what SHE experienced, what SHE really knows. If he's not telling you because it's hearsay from someone else that may have their own agenda, he should have just kept his mouth shut, or put you in touch with his "source", such as they are.

best,
-ol' 2long

decided to edit my comments

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: just me_33 ]</small>

Please forgive me, I'm not familiar with your story and don't have time right now to check your threads but I HAD to respond.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Betrayed Husband:
<strong> She told me that she got drunk and that they had sex but doesn't remember where or how or anything like that. I asked her how did she know. She said it's because they woke up naked laying next to each other in the living room and a used condom was on the floor.

I asked her how dos she know that he didn't take advantage of her or rape her and she said that she didn't, so I asked her what her reaction was, she said she went into our bedroom and cried all day after taking a shower.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You asked the right question and the answer is exactly what you suggested: RAPE. Please see if you can get your wife help, either a Rape Crisis Center in your area (look in the front of the phone book) or have her visit this site if she's not ready to deal with a live person. Survivor Message Board This link is to a private message board but at the top you will see links to four very excellent survivor sites.

Please see that she gets help, BH. It doesn't matter how long ago it was or what she was like as a person before she married you, WHATEVER, she WAS raped. It was an event whether she can remember it or not.

What happened to your wife sounds like aquaintance rape. The majority of women who report their rapes knew their rapist beforehand. So much for rape being the big, scary guy in the dark alley.(!) That's a myth that needs to go because women place themselves in bad positions not realizing they could be in danger. There are plenty of a**h*les out there who have no problem taking advantage of a vulnerable woman. Read this board if you don't believe me.

I think that this "friend" of yours is not helping your situation by passing on third hand "info" that supposedly came from the RAPIST!!!! Of course the creep is going to cover his bases, what did you think??? Why beleive HIM??

I am asking you to do a BIG THING here. I'm asking you to look at this a little differently, I realize that I don't know your background as husband and wife but bottom line BH, if someone had sex with your wife and she doesn't even know for sure if it happened, IT IS NOT HER FAULT!!!!

It has nothing to do with her past, it is something that happened TO HER WITHOUT HER KNOWLEDGE OR PERMISSION. I'm off line for a while but I hope to hear your thoughts.

FYI, I am FWS who was raped by the OM so you can see why I have an interest in helping your wife come to terms with her sitch. I'd hate to see you struggle more than you need to in recovery because you didn't have all the information you needed to see the big picture. Best, KB

BH, I am having trouble recalling your original screen name to locate your story. What forum is it posted on also? Thanks, KB

Ok, Ok. I have a revelation, I spoke to the OM and my wife's story is bogus, she has mislead me and mislead me and mislead me now since October. There was no rape, it was an intentional and bonified affair based on their weaknesses and lack of concern for anybody else.

I told my wife that we may as well have a contract marriage because this is completely against everything our marriage should be about, honesty - out the window, trust - out the window, communication - out the window, and she's been the one throwing it all out meanwhile I'm on here trying to make things right by voicing my opinions and getting help and she's lying to me.

How great would it have been had I never known and she could just go on never telling me and I know honestly she wouldn't mind. I will tell you all this that the only part of me that doesn't want to divorce right now is the heart, I love her very much but I feel like we are only delaying it. I would like nothing more than to be able to move past all of this but it's too much for me to handle when my wife will sit there and look me in the eyes and lie to me and manipulate me into the world she wants.

I'm awaiting a chaplain's visit so that I can talk to him and I'm weighing all of my options. Knewbetter, my original post, first one ever was as JKE, HOW DO YOU FORGET. If you read that and then I'M BACK UNFORTUNATELY you will see the how timeline of events unfolding, you will see when I posted, when I didn't post and you will be able to see exactly what's been going on in my marriage even though I have failed to do so myself.

The OM told me that the first time he couldn't get it up (erection) so that both had to wait for him to sober up. My wife told me in her attempt at an explanation that he was going to help her move back to Texas, basically help her leave me. She also told me that she didn't remember if this was still going on once I returned from Kuwait but then changed her answer to "maybe once or twice".

Guys, I'm very angry now but in someway talking to the OM gave me some sense of closure with him, being that we were such good friends. I also have a little more control now because I believe that this is ultimately my decision.

I understand basic concepts, I understand how to love a person, mostly I understand that this is marriageBUILDERS.com and so I know that when I log on here and I vent that is what I'm doing, I'm venting.

My friends last night, we were at a promotion party, all agreed that they would leave in this situation. I told them that part of being married is going through the up's and down's and that they never know what they would do unless it happens to them. Basically by the end of the night I sat there and thought as I watched a hand of spades being played, "I CAN'T WAIT TO GO HOME TO THE WOMAN WHO HURT ME SO BAD."

I went home and told her that this is the time where she naturally will start doubting the degree to which I love her, but if she thinks very hard she'll realize how much I have to love her. Yeah, well I guess I'm through, thanks to everyone for listening.

Hey bud, I can relate to what you're going through. No, I have not read the other post which goes into detail about all this. I do get quite a grasp of where you are comming from.
The honesty, trust, the things you thought you did not have to worry about. The things that made you comfortable when you leave your wife at home alone. Roger that big time. Let me just say, aside from the "Rape" post, this does happen but I felt as I started reading that, with the used condom...well, who uses a condom if they are going to rape someone? I don't know but why would a rapist worry about that?? If the guy raped her why would he fall asleep next to her, I would imagine he would high tail it out of the place, not fall asleep...besides, I am sorry but it just didnt fit. Ok, everything else people have said works for me, I agree.
What I feel my inner voice saying as I read your words, well, just for a nutshell so you know where I am comming from before I say anything more: My wife, who I trusted with my life, who I loved more than anything, who I would die for and can't stop loving has been having an affair with a 10 year less her age toy boy POS IMOP, for almost a year now. We are still married but she has set me up only to emotionally abuse me, has used every trusted weakness she knew about me against me to hurt me. Has had me thrown in Jail 2 times for violating a protective order she got to "control" me as she told me. She has spent one night here since she left Aug. 27, 2003. Financially ruined both of us. I am selling our house so she can get half the equity. She and her boyfriend set me up to believe they had broken up so she says she wants to try to work things out...she comes over every day after work then went back to her apartment each time and toy boy was there..I don't know what that was all about. Basically I am being punished for taking her for granted for a few years of the 18 we have been together. She has talked crap behind my back to make her look like the victim. People have taken sides, she sees nothing wrong with what she is doing, tells me I did nothing for her and her daughter, which I basically raised from one year old to present she is almost 20 now...do you get the picture??..I am dwelling on all the hurt she has dished out, but we are getting a divorce. I want her back so damn bad because I know the person she is now is not her...or is it? enough on my situation...
Take what you have, look to the future. You have a baby on the way, apply the techniques this site offers to build a love and trust that, to me looks very very achievable. See, if only I could get my wife to come back and let go of toy boy. I know these techniques would work, I just have not had the opportunity to use them. I was half the problem, you were half of whatever happened as well. That is in the past however, nothing can change that. Just realize it's a two way street and be a better person from now forward. I am not lecturing you in anyway, just saying, dude, you have a piece of clay that can be molded into just about anything you want. I would look at the things you still have with her it is not as bad as you feel it is. Sure, the one night sex thing hurts like a knife twisting in your side. Try having your wife come to visit you with hickeys literally from the neck down past the groin area, everywhere,... I am not kidding, 2 times she did that to me..she had the hickeys from the other blankety blank BLANK toy boy...ya, I know I wanted to pay him a visit, but then I would have been in a cell for the rest of my life. Really, if you love your wife, show her you do, let her begin to trust you and don't get angry in front of her, that scares someone who is already very scared. I have made tons of mistakes, just trying to let you know, things are very fixable. If you love your wife like I love mine, go for it, you have a marriage still. I wish you the best of best luck and really luck is not needed, just show your wife you love her. Enjoy the present because it is history. 8 p <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BH, I found your original post and totally remember it. Both my H and I were quite struck by it at the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Did you know that in Biblical times young men were exempt from war for at least one year if they were newly married? It makes total sense to me, too bad we don't have the same policy in our times today.

I know you had good intentions in leaving your young, beautiful wife to live alone with your "best friend" but I know you realize now how foolish that was. You say you spoke to the OM and feel you have closure as far as he is concerned. Can you explain that further?

I keep looking for specifics in your posts as to what actually happened. The part that I questioned you about is so creepy. It certainly made an upsetting impression on your wife that's for sure. What exactly did the OM tell you?

You may want to read this thread which is almost your same story in reverse told from the perspective of the WW. Her thinking process is progressive and will give you hope.

I am under the impression that you and your wife are quite young, in your twenties perhaps. It is a wonderful thing to have guidance and mentoring at the begining of your marriage, mistakes or no. Many of us come to this site in the middle of our marriages and lives, just think what a head start you have!

This is recoverable, BH especially if you choose FIRST to simply love and forgive. No one will tell you it is easy, it is most definitely not.

We are two years out and dealing with difficult old marital stuff in an effort to be the best spouses we can be to each other. I heard the most amazing words from my H this weekend. We were going round and round about something and I brought up the A. He just looks at me and says, "Hey, I'm fine with THAT!" I started crying and crying because even though I KNOW he has forgiven me, he is so clear about it. I am amazed and humbled by him.

BH, that's what recovery really is. Mercy, forgiveness, love extended and accepted. I wish you the best in yours. Consider printing out LLG's thread for your wife, she will be able to relate I'm sure. Hang in there ok? KB

The OM told me that it was most certainly not just one time, did not always involve alcohol and like I mentioned in my prior post that neither one of them really cared. I guess that I got closure from him because I had been waiting for him to tell me it happened. You have to realize that there was a time when we were best friends, in fact he helped me out of a lot of marital problems while we were deployed. I thought of him as family. Well hearing him tell me his story kind of brought everything into a new perspective where I knew that my wife had been lying to me and the "gut-feeling" that my MC had told me to trust was right.

Again, once I confronted her she told me some half-truths and so now I know that she was lying, that my friends at work weren't just being wishy-washy that they were in a constant battle of do we tell him or do we not. I don't criticize the ones who never said anything to me nor the ones who did, but I have a long road ahead of me.

I didn't understand perfectly what you meant when you said it left an upset impression on my wife. I don't know if you were talking about the lie that she told me for the six months since she admitted to sleeping with him once because they were both drunk, but if you can specify.

Thanks for the column to look at, I will certainly do so and hope that it will help me out even more.

I told her that the truth is what I need to fully understand how to survive this because myself never being in the position that she was forced in, I don't understand why or how it could happen.

Forgiveness is the hardest part but I am working on it or I would have called it quits long ago. I just wonder how many more of her secrets that if I don't pry out of her I'll never know that could be more devastating if I find out later.

LINKS TO MY OTHER THREADS.
HOW DO I FORGET

I'M BACK UNFORTUNATELY

I have another question about all of this that I've asked before. I've put a lot of things in this forum specifically because I didn't want my wife to have to hear them from me, I didn't want to hurt her, should she see all of these posts?

BH, A woman doesn't take a shower and then cry all day if she's had a normal sexual experience. I'm assuming she was really telling you about the first time and then holding onto that as her story after DD. The thing is your wife doesn't even remember doing anything. This is not as wierd as it sounds. I have spent waaaay too much time on rape support sites to discount this. "Nice" guys use date rape drugs too, you know. They are all over the place and easy to get and use.

I'd be pretty leery of what the OM told you. He doesn't want you to think worse of him than you already do so he's got plenty of motivation to soft pedal his actions. Did you know that many men who coax,wheedle,or coerce women into sex they don't want will actually say that she really wanted it?

If you've exposed OM to his wife yet, this is most likely what he has told HER. He's got a reputation to protect as a soldier as well, right. I mean who would trust this walking h*rd*n around their wife now? If he can toss it off on her to everyone, all the better for him.

I'd be very careful in making any asssumptions about your wife's actual willingness in all this especially in the begining. Here is a quote from one of your previous posts:

*************************************************
Betrayed Husband: From personal experience I know why I was a touchy-feely friend to females prior to my marriage, basically to flirt, get them interested, and pull them in. It seemed the easiest way to do so without blatently disrespecting them and going for the kill was to learn how they think, learn how they feel, and offer them a shoulder always, simply manipulative on my part and maybe that's why this has happened to me.
*************************************************

"Best friend" knows this too and they were actually LIVING TOGETHER for seven months. (?) Do you see why I'm asking you to try to look at this from a slightly different prspective. I am NOT trying to excuse your wife in any way but you might need to be cutting her a little slack. Think about it.
On your question about her seeing your posts, I don't really see any LBing not anything glaring anyway. For her to see your heart on paper (screen) is not a bad thing. She has not been disrespected or demonized by any of the replies as far as I can remember. It would be such a good thing to have her here. She is in as much need of support as you. KB

Knewbetter,

I have just finished reading every single post in the three topics that I have gracefully placed on this site. As I looked at them I found a lot of the strength that had got me through some hard times that still apply to this situation, but unfortunately it is only at face value because my wife walked in here a few minutes ago (she had fallen asleep ealier) and I obviously didn't do the right thing to show her that I love her. I guess that just by posting right now instead of going in there I am kind of confiding in someone else.

I am going to ask her if she will read all three threads and in specific the LLG thread which may help her more in seeing how this all works in the end.

To clarify, the OM and I were deployed together, he returned to the states in late Aug, I returned October 6th. 1 month and a week was the tenure of their affair while I was gone. After I returned the affair continued, he was supposed to be taking steps to secure a career outside of the military but chose to stay in my apartment all day instead. Like I said earlier, I have to pry truth and maybe I am not ready for it all but she at least said that it may have happened once or twice after I returned.

As far as the rape, I seriously doubt that this is a factor in our particular situation because those two were best of friends, got along great and even collaborated stories on DD. I wouldn't think that she would allow this to happen, allow him to still stay in the house, and be such a buddy to him if it were rape.

Secondly, about rape, we carry a heavy burden on us already because of both our past experiences in relation to rape, or the sexual betrayal of someone we trusted to us. I will say this, I will not discuss her situation on here and I'm proud that I have not sold out the promise I made to her from her personal history questionnare throughout these posts.

If she happens to mention her past on here as a way to deal with her present that is her choice, not mine.

I ordered two books on infidelity tonight, one from Dr. Harley, the infamous and well-referenced Surviving an Affair, and, well I don't remember the other one, maybe because it's not from Dr. Harley but got me free shipping and it's something that one of us can read while the other is reading the other (confusing?).

I'm really not a good husband right now because I am letting the hate and resentment control me but at the same time I am also entertaining my heart which has allowed me to go through this and not crumble.

I'm going to go ahead and end this post but just want to say to anyone out there that has ever responded to me, intelligently or not, thank you for your words, your advice and your concern for my situation. I hope that I can help others too and noticed that I can the other day when a co-worker was talking about problems in her marriage (military, separation, deployments, etc.).

I hope that my wife will be able to join me soon and find the same support that I have and we can do exactly what this site is premised from and build our marriage and take this ride off of cruise control and let the top down and really "cruise."

God Bless.

BH, you are a good man, don't be so hard on yourself! You both have a huge shot at recovery by learning as much as you can and it's obvious you are willing. It's early yet for you and in time you will be able to turn towards your wife again.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my attempt to clarify the possible rape thing. There is a problem with people assuming that rape is only about strangers using force and violence. IT'S NOT!! Because I was partner raped myself, I usually end up responding to posts where there are red flags as far as possible abuse, aggression or coersion on the part of the OM, that kind of stuff.

Your post raised a red flag for me, so here I am. I would have hated seeing your wife take blame for something she shouldn't because you didn't have necessary information, affair or not. I am thrilled to see you speak up for your wife's right to privacy. I told you, you are a good man! If your wife would ever like to talk to me privately as far as the things I've brought up, she is welcome to. Let me know and I'll post my addy. You can check my posts out to see where I'm coming from by clicking on the little sunglasses or do a search using my member number.

I have spent more time over your threads just now and you had some very thoughtful replies. There is a sense that I get sometimes when I read posts as to who is going to do well in recovery and who's not. Sounds weird, I don't even know either of you in real life but you sort of remind me of Eric N. Here's a link to an awesome thread of his. He's walking where you walk, just a little ahead of you. It's a process remember and here is a very important part of his. Check it out. An incredible thread I keep giving you these really long threads don't I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's worth it believe me! Have a good weekend and take care, KB

Edited to add: It is a dangerous thing to get into discussing marriage problems (yours or theirs) with FEMALE coworkers. I know you want to help but it's just asking for trouble to get into personal issues with the opposite sex. Send her to MB if you want be helpful, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ July 17, 2004, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: knewbetter ]</small>