My wife of 13 years recently had a brief affair with someone she works with which may have produced a bouncing permanent reminder. We have 4 boys so what’s one more? She and I are working to rebuild our marriage. (wow! That’s a lot shorter than the first time I wrote out the story! See link below)

If it sounds like I'm taking this all pretty casually, it’s partly because I've been here before. My first wife had a fling that ended in her leaving me in the military by myself.

When I first found out there may have been something going on (w/ first wife), she denied, then admitted to a few things then a little more etc. It was painful and took 2 weeks to drag it all out of her. When she finally had nothing else to loose, I got all the sticky sweaty details. I made things worse by asking for more, like who was a better lover, did she climax with him.... things that I didn't like the answers to. Some of her answers I think were designed to make me hate her so she could leave more easily.

Now I’m here again with my second wife. W is more than willing to tell all and come clean. “No more lies!” She says. I know that she was unfaithful, there’s a possibility that she’s carrying OM child (and it will be obvious), and there was 2 sexual encounters total. Part of me wants to call that enough detail. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts to advantages of me sitting her down for more. I know it only hurts for a while, but it still hurts.

Painter - Your wife is very remorseful. I know it is a guy thing to want all the details, and stake out your territory, but for women, the affair is usually all about emotional needs.

I suggest that you get on with recovery and forget about it.

Painter, I'm very sorry you're going through this again. Details, details, and details. I need to know all of them...why! It's only been since Feb since I learned all of the details (if she's being honest) but as of now I wish I wouldn't have asked for them.

I think it's up to each individual on if they can handle the information or not. If you know you can move on without the details than that's what I would recommend. As you have learned the hard way; if you ask a question be prepared for the worst.

I wish you the best and only you know what you should ask.

Painter,
I agree with JDK.
Details are different for everyone.

What I want to point out is you've made it quite clear you want to recover and rebuild your marriage, I applaud your courage, especially with your previous situations.

Draw a line in the sand. It's up to you, find out what you think you NEED to know, and let it die. I didn't do that at first, and regret it now, the more details I got, the worse I hurt.

Do the details lessen the initial betrayal ? I mean, the worst has already happened, to me it was like salt in an open wound.

I think you and your wife will be just fine. Try very hard not to let the PAST dictate your future.
Best of luck to you both.

All due respect Believer, I'm thinking that details leaking a little at a time during recovery will be bad. Maybe better to rip the whole band-aid off quickly would be better for future.

I dunnow. Need more input!

Painter,,,
As the H there are just certain things you hold sacred with your wife. All the things you know she likes and you do for her are great confidence builders. Some of these things wheather its sexual or a way your wife just likes to be touched, talked to.......etc. You know your wife better than the OM. I know I asked about those kind of things,,, Example: I asked stuff like, Did you sleep with him in our bed, or anywhere in the house, did the two of you have oral sex, is he better equiped than me, did he massage you like I do, did he lightly run his fingers all over you like I do.... I mean for me I simply kept wandering that in my head and not knowing was eating me up. I had to have answers even when I knew they would hurt. I just got sick of that crap in my head. Did my wife tell me the truth,,,,,OH YEA,,,, did it devastate me??? I broke down and cried like a baby. Wife fully knew I was going to be hurt but she also knew i could not forgive without having some of these details. I can honestly say that there is no other detail I wander about. There is nothing left to ask my wife,, I asked her everything and she answered everything. I can tell you the details of my wifes affair better than she can now. Do I regret her telling me?? Absolutely not. For the simple reason there are no more questions for me to ask. I can now start dealing with the full hurt of the affair and not wonder about it. Pandering over details only keeps your mind on the affair. When you get these questions answered even if they hurt you can then deal with the full hurt.
I definately agree that you get them answered all at once. My wife sat me down and pretty much said ask me everything you want and I will tell you honest answeres. Heck, it was like I had list in my head allready prepared. Looking back on it now,, all I know is that I have unbelieveable respect for my wife to be able to let it all out. See its like this.... She had to hurt me to help me,,, if that makes any since.
Also the whole time my wife spilled out answers she was spilling out tears. We both were devastated but it was necessary hurt so that we could move out of the shock phase and start to work on the forgiving phase.

Here is a suggestion.

If you still have questions that you feel you just have to have answers to then ask your W if it would be okay if you took say....a couple of hours out of a certain day that you both could agree on for you to ask your questions.

Give yourself about a week before that day to write any questions down that you feel you need answered. Remember to write them down....you don't want to have your question time and then realize later that there was a couple more that you forgot to ask.

If after this...during recovery...a few little details that were missed leak out....then don't sweat it....at least you know she's telling you. The WS doesn't usually OFFER information....and sometimes they don't divulge everything unless something specific is asked.

Kinda like asking someone to hand you your cigarettes and they hand you them....but not the lighter...because you didn't ask for the lighter too. Sorry...that one was the only way I could think to explain it...lol

I think in the end you will be surprised in finding out that even knowing every little detail won't matter.

I thought I HAD to know every little detail and when I started getting them they didn't make me feel better....most of the time they didn't make me feel better or worse. They didn't really matter in the end.

What I thought I needed to move on....wasn't what I really needed.

Thanx Eric....

I like your "set a time" idea MissPriss. Thanx

<small>[ July 16, 2004, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Painter ]</small>

Painter,
Details?

I know she had orgasms. I know he found her "G" spot (per the email on Dday). But in the books I read (I have become an avid reader)the affair itself when it goes to PA contains passionate sex. That is part of the deal. Its all new and exciting. That is what the PA is, dammit!!

Our therapist asked if knowing the details would help me. I asked her if other clients that wanted to know were helped or hindered by knowing. She said each individual was different. Some it helped, some it didn't. I asked did the men need to know more that the women and again there was no pattern.

I obsess daily. Is my imagination worse than the actual facts? I am not sure if I want to know.

Obsessing is not a healthy activity and if you are committed to repairing the marriage it is very detrimental. If knowing all the "gory details" will increase the obsessing and the movies in your head, then maybe you don't need to know.

I have also read that later on in recovery usually is a better time to hear these details, if you must.

Right now you have an open, gaping wound in your heart. Why pour rock salt on it now. Wait for some healing to occurr.

My WS told me last night that when the Om held her in his arms and held her hand, it was no where near the same, safe feeling of home she felt when I hold her in my arms. It did not compare! That took a tremendous amount of my hurt away.

When Eric N. sat with his wife and it all poured out...that was a heavy duty discussion! And it seemed to help him/them.

When there is whole hearted commitment between both spouses to repair and make the marriage stronger, maybe there is no wrong answer.

When there is whole hearted commitment between both spouses to repair and make the marriage stronger, maybe there is no wrong answer.

I agree completely.
For me I looked back on my wifes ability to tell me the cold hard truth.
You know how I feel about it now??
I feel if she was able to tell me that truth then I have no doubt she is committed to honesty,,, once again respecting her honesty. It does give me back a percent of the trust that was destroyed.
I am not trying to talk you into this awful disclosure, its just what I needed. Even like Krusht said PA's, sad to say, are filled with very intense sex and you pretty much figure your fears to be true but for me I have to put it to rest,, not figure.

I found out about my H's PA on 5-15-04, but didn't start to find out the full truth until 6-17 when OW called the house and we had a speaker phone conversation. Only by the grace of God did I handle that conversation in a way that was positive (if there can be such a thing).

Details - I wanted to know everything. I sat down and wrote out every question I could think of in a "stream of consciousness" sort of way (just let my emotions dictate what went on paper). I ended up asking H almost every one. It was grueling, but for me a necessity.

For me, not knowing was to use my imagination to "fill in the blanks" and I knew/know that I wouldn't be filling in those blanks with positive things. I needed to know what was real and what wasn't.

I guess what I am trying to say is that only you know what you need to know.

Miss Priss is also very correct when she said: "What I thought I needed to move on....wasn't what I really needed."

I'm not sure if I got what I needed (and I'm still asking questions), but I don't regret asking.

ddc

Painter,

I think Eric has offered you something to think about and I would like to expand on it just abit. He mentioned that although the details hurt badly, he learned to "respect" his W for her honesty, and very likely because she comforted him knowing she was hurting him.

Here is something else to think about. Getting the details out also helps the WS. They want to "get over it", but they retain images themselves and some of them are very romantic because the WS has not faced the reality of what those details have done to the marriage, theirs spouse, and themselves.

Getting them out forces the WS to face the reality of what has happened and see first hand the effect it has on their spouse. It is a tough call but if you have any inclination to get some of the details, then do it now, and clear the air. Those that have recovered well seem to have gotten all of the details they need to forgive out on the table. A blank forgiveness is really not forgiveness at all in that one doesn't know what they have forgiven.

One last thought for you. Why not ask your W for the details SHE thinks are important for you to know so that you can properly forgive her. Ask her what images and thoughts really stick in her mind. Ask her does she know something or realize something about herself, you, whatever do to her experiences with the OM. Are there things you need to address.

I would start there perhaps. I know it is normal to think that the details is for the BS, but I really do think getting them out or at least the important things out (important is in the eye of the beholder that is why I mentioned asking her) is important for the WS as well. It brings reality to this situation.

So I suspect I have confused you more, but think about this, and reread Eric's responses, I suspect they are closest to your situation, but I may be wrong.

God Bless,

JL

Thanx all for the replies.

It’s hard for me to express my feelings in this medium. (Especially without spell chek)

After I read what all-y'all had to say this is what I’m thinking. With the first wife I got all the details and it sucked, then she left anyway.

This time we are committed to work this out and raise our kids with two loving parents. So my first thought is to let WW off the hook of reliving her mistakes by telling me all. This also spares me having to hear her speak all those sordid details aloud.

I think I may be looking for a shortcut for both of us. Here’s why: Twice now she has let some little detail slip out that I wasn’t expecting. How many more of those are coming in the next few months? Just when I think I know what happened, something slips and changes the picture. We still aren’t sure if we’re expecting a brown baby or a blondie like me. This leads me to the rip-the-Band Aid-off-all-at-once-quickly answer as a good way to go.

Thanx again for your ideas…..

Comments?

I was still composing when JL replied....

Thanx Eric, JL....

I know where to go next.....

I think an examination from a slightly different perspective may be in order. While we have been considering whether or not we as BH should examine the whole truth, the catharsis my wife went through where she unburdened herself of 25 years of guilt and shame were absolutely necessary for her.

NO...I probably know more now than I really need to know. But, at least she's shed that burden. We can now start over at rebuilding our marriage. No more "skeletons" in the closet. No more dirty little (or not so little) secrets. If we're really going to forgive (and not simply pay it lip service), let's know what we're forgiving. No "land mines" to frag us on the long road to recovery.

Whew! Glad that’s over.

I talked to WW tonight and we decided to have it out right now. Turns out it wasn’t a very long story. And I learned some things that weren’t big details, but mean something to me in context. I’m so excited about what she revealed, I’m not sure it’s appropriate to share. Details about the intercourse still hurt, but she really wants me and needs me! ME! Not him!

Thank-you all for your input and support! We’ve crossed another hurtle. Many more to come. She’s getting nauseous more often now. I get to deal with a PG woman now (yay!)

Lord, help us!

That’s become our most frequent prayer lately.

……….

Oh, and one other thing I asked her. (took a big chance on this one, couldn’t help it)
Her answer: He has a pathetic little thingy! Hoo ha ha ha!

Sorry for bloviating, things have been so crappy; it’s nice to have one thing to laugh at!

Painter,

So nice to read some happy things in this place.

GOOD FOR YOU!!! SO HAPPY FOR YOU!

One more thing....Bloviating??

K

<small>[ July 17, 2004, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: krusht ]</small>

bloviate \BLOH-vee-ayt\, intransitive verb:
To speak or write at length in a pompous or boastful manner.

LOL! Do you ever watch Bill O'reily on Fox? That's where I got that word.

I have just one thing to say about my personal opinion (just to make it clear, I don't know details yet) I think that everytime more information comes out is like the affair is happening all over again and BSs can inadvertantly take it as a lie because they weren't told before.

I don't want to know everything at this point and time but I have before and one thing that happened when my wife admitted that she had originally lied is all the original feelings cames back, I would have much rather known all in the beginning than hear more later that would hurt more later.

I'll probably change my mind if my wife ever actually opens up to me and tells me what happened, as far as asking, I've already tried it.

BH,

First (off the subject) Thank-You for your service to this country! You’re a great American!

Now, I have been where you are. You think you have an idea of what happened, than another detail leaks out that not only changes the picture, but digs at the hurt feelings again.

I was in the AF with my first W. The details dragged out over 2 weeks and hurt. I was miles away from family or friends. I had military buddies sure, but those friendships are quick and shallow. By the time I had the whole story, she wanted to leave anyway. Great! I get to fulfill my military obligations, on base, living in the barracks! She is cut loose to do and go as she pleases?!?

Things are different in my current marriage. WW2 wants to stay and work it out.

IF your WW will open up and be totally honest with you, AND if you both want to save what you have, one more (hopefully last) ugly talk and review can help IMHO.

You read my reply at the top of this page? …. She (WW2) revealed that that there were 7 times they were alone together. OK that sucks….but I know He doesn’t have as much history with her as I do. She was intimate with him twice. OK that sucks! But she didn’t like it the first, (she was a bawling mess) and was nagged into S the second (Damned near date-rape if you ask me) I am the better lover!

I didn’t ask the questions that lead to these details on my D-day. I didn’t think I wanted to know the answers; but my imagination was working over time, so, as long as she was willing to tell me whatever I needed, I debunked what my imagination was telling me. (also got the bonus info I mentioned)

God’s love be with you both!