I've been lurking here for a few weeks, ever since I found out about my wife's affair. While I haven't suffered the agony of a protracted affair, I have been reeling from the affects the betrayal has had on my psyche.

First of all alcohol was involved when the affair took place. Second, alcohol has been a problem in our marriage since we have been married (six years). The problem is she likes to drink and I don't--although I will drink with her every once in a while when we go out or visit with friends but I don't get drunk. She has to get drunk when she drinks. She gets verbally abusive and I am totally turned off by her "lush-like" behaviour when she is drinking.

When I confronted her with the affair I made her promise me that she would not drink anymore. She agreed. Now I'm not so sure. I think she's drinking and now she is telling me her drinking was situational. She feels she was drinking a lot because of a lot of problems we had in our marriage and that she doesn't feel that way now. She feels that now that since the situation is no longer there that she can drink without creating the problems that occured in the past. That she should be able to drink when we go on vacation or go to a friends house or when we go out to dinner.

I'm scared. I feel like she made a promise to me that she wouldn't drink and she made that promise to keep me from leaving her and now that I want to work on our marriage (using Dr. Harley's principles) she feels she can go back to drinking because it was "only situational."

I'm feeling like I'm not sure I want to go on with this relationship anymore. I love her so much, but I don't want to spend my life having to live in the shadow of a bottle, feeling ashamed of whom I'm married to and suffering through verbal abuse or the threat of more affairs.

A part of me wants to be the bigger person and just ignore the promise she made to me and just go to work on the marriage and hope she "gets" The Policy of Joint Agreement and cares enough about me to not drink so that we can be happy.

Another part of me wants to move on and accept the losses and look for someone that I can share my life with that won't be more interested in drinking than in having a loving relationship.

This just happened and the feelings are a bit raw right now so some of this may be mad ramblings but I feel like I can't really deal with this one alone like I have the affair.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry your're here under these circumstanses. Affairs are hard enough to deal with..you seem to have the added bonus of a substance abuse.

I'm afraid not many plans work where there is substance abuse. I have travelled that path myself. It wasnt until I found Alanon I began to see the big picture.

I would encourage you to contact them...you cant stop your wife drinking...you can however learn better coping statergies and become a stronger you.I was infact enabling my husband...I would clean up after him...get him that drink of water in the mid of night..look out for him...protect him...and so on.

I eventually learnt... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> took me a while though!( he's clean and straight now for close on two yrs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

I wish you well...Please try Alanon....aswell as some IC..and look after you...

Max

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A part of me wants to be the bigger person and just ignore the promise she made to me and just go to work on the marriage... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had the same problem, looking at it like it was her promise that was broken so everything should just be void, what I've realized though is that giving up would mean I break my promise.

I understand what you are going through though as alochol played a contributing factor in many of my wife's lowest moments, so the fear is there that it is a huge problem and one that needs to be taken care of. A big part of it is personal responsibility.

Your choice shouldn't be to ignore her promise it's whether or not you want to keep yours because quiet frankly even though you don't feel this way, you are in control of the situation and how it effects you. You can't control her (try as you may) but you can look at things differently.

It's so easy for us BS's to say, why did they do this to me, why did they break their promise and then want to get even but we made a promise too and the real problem we face is in ourselves not in them.

Both of our wives have issues of their own that they need to deal with, problems that they face internally that we alone can not change, the only thing we can do is remember that we can ask why all day and try to determine what to do based off of our assumptions we create to answer that question, or we can realize, the choice is ours, do we stay or do we go and ultimately that is just a decision that you have to make based on you it really won't matter their opinion in the end because once you make up your mind (and heart) it's made.

I think that I've decided the why and how, the reason is not for me to ponder about, I ponder about how to overcome within myself because there is simply nothing that she can say that I will ever truly understand why or how, it will never be good enough, but if I just stay, stick it out, love her like I loved her, maybe I can be a better man for myself.

I LIKE TO RAMBLE...

BP,
Wanted to throw my $.02 in.

Was the excessive drinking really limited to the stressful period or would you say that W was showing signs of alcoholism prior? Was the affair a ONS? How was alcohol involved in A?

The reason I ask is that someone can become a bing drinker without yet becoming an alcoholic in the true sense. This comes from my psych bc that is where I was.

The stress in my life was W's affair and long term lying about it. Right after DDay2 I started to drink more than I ever had in the past. Social situations were particularly bad. IMHO it was bc I felt humiliation and shame especially at a function that had W's best friend who knows the dirty secret in attendance.

Psych warned me that more time of this behavior would leed to being an alcoholic that and it countermeasured my ADs. So I quit drinking. No cravings. No other effects.

Your W may have felt guilty about the affair and was self medicating as I was. Believe me alcohol use does not excuse her behavior.

Just a few thoughts.

Mac

Madmax: I'll look into Alanon. My situation feels a bit different in that I'm not enabling while her drinking does cause a lot of problems for us.

BH: Thanks for your words. It seems we both share some of the same pain. I agree that if I back out now that I'm breaking my promise. Maybe I gave her an untimatum when she promised to not drink again. I just wanted to deal with something that I could grasp onto, even if it was an empty promise that she wouldn't drink again. By letting her go on drinking in social occasions like she wants am I giving up something? Yes, my peace of mind. Could I continue on with this relationship while she drinks? Yes, but will it be completely fulfilling as I have imagined it could be without the drinking? Probably not. Once I began reading Dr. Harley's books and this website I began visualizing the possiblities for our marriage. It was my way of getting beyond the hurt of her infidelity. I painted some pretty gradiose masterpieces. Then she drops the bomb on me that she wants to continue to drink. How can we get to the wonderful state of marriage that is possible using the principles found here if alcohol is in the way? Or is it that I'm the one in the way holding onto my preconcieved notions of what our marriage should be like? Too many questions, not enough answers. Sorry for the rambling.

cwmac: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Was the excessive drinking really limited to the stressful period or would you say that W was showing signs of alcoholism prior? Was the affair a ONS? How was alcohol involved in A?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The excessive drinking has been a part of her life before we even met. She had an accident that nearly killed her and totaled her car because she blacked out. I know that she got drunk with guys and brought them home with her and she has trouble remembering some of what happened. I don't really know the definition of what an alcoholic is except for Dr. Harley's, which I think is the best:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Some people wonder if they are really alcoholics. They may not go to bars, and they may not even get drunk very often. What is an alcoholic? My definition of an alcoholic is someone who cannot follow the Policy of Joint Agreement because of their craving for alcohol. If your drinking in any form bothers your spouse, and you cannot or will not give it up for his or her sake, I consider you an alcoholic because alcohol is more important to you than the feelings of your spouse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The affair spanned three days with a friend of ours. Intercourse was involved and so was alcohol on all three nights. If she wasn't drinking, I'm sure it would never have happened. She and he were drinking heavily with him providing the drinks. This all happened and his house with his two little children sleeping in the next room while his wife was away visiting friends.

Your wife seems to have along history of abuse.

Is your wife willing to enter counselling with you? Not that counselling will help her drinking habits unless her timingis right...just sometimes the perspective of a third person can give a nudge in the right direction. Its very difficult to deal with, by what you have written your wife seems to be standing neck deep in denial.

Alcohol or no alcohol....your wife had an affair and is responsible for her own actions...just as she is with her drinking. The two certainly do walk hand in hand at times...but no matter what your wife must recognise the destructive path she is on and she must recognise that she is totally responsible for her own behaviour, under the influence or not...before your marriage can begin to heal.

I do not envy the place you are right now..I am pleased you will look into Alanon..but dealing with an affair on your own is very difficult...so again I will recommend Counselling...if not for the both of you at present...then for just you for now.

Take Care

Max

Hi Bleeding,

I have read your post and the one thing that sticks with me is how you said "I made her promise to stop drinking" you don't have a drinking problem and it's hard to understand how come she just can't stop. She's sick. I'm married to an alcoholic and it's hard to understand the urge to drink when you don't.

Al-Anon was a great help to me. One of things that I learned is telling an alcoholic to stop drinking is like telling someone who has cancer to get rid of it.

The trick is - and this is the hardest part is not letting her drinking and her ways when she's intoxicated get to you, this is her problem not yours. And because you love her, you want to help her, the only problem is you can't. Only he can help herself. She may come to you and ask you your help, that is when you can give a number for AA or some other support group. There are also intervention programs. If you're seeing an IC, maybe you can talk to your therapist about it. If she doesn't have friends, is there family that sees what she is like when she's drinking? The dynamics of an alcoholic marriage can be devastating on the M and the children, basically anyone who lives with the alcoholic. I think part of the reason for my H's A was his alcoholism. There are people who agree with this and people who don't. My H is still drinking and I don't make excuses for him anymore, if he falls asleep on the couch I will try and wake him up before I go to bed, if he doesn't wake up I leave him there. I do not "take care" of his drinking problem and make everything okay for him anymore, he knows I won't pick him up. I love him, despite his drinking, I do not own his problem it's his and that is the hardest thing to accept, because we want to help them but we are powerless. I do not buy his beer, I do not get him a beer from the fridge when he wants one, I have detached with love. When he's ready he will stop and not one day before, that took me a long time to realize and accept - that I could not help him stop, that I could not make him stop. If I know he has had a few, I will not engage in serious conversations with him, and the funniest thing is - I'm not angry anymore at him because I accept his problem as being his not mine.

I remember when I realized my H was an alcoholic, I was in denial, alcoholics were the guys I would see begging downtown or passed out on park benches, that to me was an alcoholic so how could my H be one? My H got up everyday to go to work, paid the bills etc. There are doctors, lawyers, police who are alcoholics who provide for their families, never miss a day of work. There are no stereotypes and that's when I really started let it go and stop trying to control his drinking.

If her drinking is bothering you then it's a problem. There are on-line Al-Anon support groups if you don't want to go to meetings.

take care

hello all and thanks for your help. After listening to your wise counsel I had the realization last night that to continue on in this relationship will be living between the drinks. I don't know how they teach you to deal with alcoholics in Alanon but I'm feeling like the only way I can do it is enjoy the moments when she is sober and give her as much love and attention as she deserves and work through the principles of building a strong marriage. It's like living between the spaces.

Your advice Heartbroken, about distancing yourself, not enabling your H during drinking phases feels right on the money. If I don't participate in supporting her in the drinking then I'm not reinforcing her addiction. She'll get angry when I don't buy her wine at the store or drink when we go out but I'll just deal with that as it comes.

Max, she's seeing a minister for counseling now and I'm looking for one for the both of us. I've been thinking about the phone counseling with Dr. Harley but I'm not sure how well this will work with her. It's ironic that after the A she said she was going to join a church because she felt that was something that she really needed to do yet a couple of weeks later--while still attending church regularly--she says she wants to continue drinking.

So is this what it comes to, only hoping for a whole marriage while living between the spaces? Do spouses of alcholics live their lives hoping that things will improve and that their spouse will some day wake up? It seems so hopeless and sad. While my life ticks away...waiting...

HI Bleeding,

So is this what it comes to, only hoping for a whole marriage while living between the spaces? Do spouses of alcholics live their lives hoping that things will improve and that their spouse will some day wake up? It seems so hopeless and sad. While my life ticks away...waiting...

For now YES. Once you realize that YOU cannot change her, or make her stop YOUR life will improve. This is not your fault, she does not drink because of you, she drinks because she has a problem, her problem was probably there long before you met her.

You cannot change her and that is the hardest thing to accept. I know, believe me I've tried, I used to think "Maybe if I didn't get so angry he would stop." Things like that. I remember him telling me during his A, when I brought up his drinking that I didn't try hard enough to make him stop, like it was my fault he drank the way he did, and I believed him. I thought it was my fault, then I realized one day that it wasn't my fault. Alcoholics will try and blame the closest person or people to them for their problem, I think it's a defense mechanism. I used to get embarassed at some of things he did, but now I don't. I'm not the one doing them, it's him that's doing them. Sometimes I ask myself why am I staying? The answer is easy, I love him warts and all. I do hope one day he will stop, but it doesn't consume me anymore. If he ever asks for help I have a number he can call.

It's not easy, but once you understand that it's her disease not yours, it will be easier to understand.

Heartbroken,

Thanks for sticking in there and helping me. I've been thinking a lot about all the advice and have been reading a lot here and elsewhere. I took some time to really evaluate the situation and if I could devote the rest of my life to living as if things will change. I'm not sure if they will change but I do know that I love her and want to do everything I can to make the best of what I have. I made a promise when I married her and I intend to keep it. It will be difficult but I will be following all the advice I've received here and the guidelines in Dr. Harley's books. If I focus on the positive then the negative will have less of a hold on us. Right now I'm still dealing with the A and this addiction issue just makes it all more intolerable. Like they say, "one day at a time."

Bleeding, my H is turning 55 soon, and I think this is the first time since I've known him (25 years) that he has gone 30 days without drinking. It's been nice, altho he says he will start up again in Sept when football season starts. And since he goes to a local bar, at which they overserve, our marriage may not survive. It bearly is surviving his EA last year. We will be trying MB marriage coaching soon; think about it, maybe it would help you guys. Good luck and hang in there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are on-line Al-Anon support groups if you don't want to go to meetings.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heartbroken, would you have the addresses to these on-line groups? I could really use the support in dealing with my father...

Natalie.