I got an e-mail from H and OW? today. They were both so cruel and called me names. I haven't gotten divorce papers yet, but I expect them any day. H is very angry that I told his parents what has been going on and claims that I did so to break up his family. WHY would I do that? His family is the only thing he has right now except for OW. I don't want to PUSH him to her. They both said such mean things in the e-mail, calling me desperate among other things. Of course I am desperate - this is MY marriage. This has been the worst Christmas. Family tried to help, but not hearing from H was terrible. He says that he is embarrassed that he married me. It's Christmas. Why is he being so mean? He hasn't spent a Christmas without me in 7 years - so how was this so easy for him? He claims that I lied to his parents. Why would I do that? I just wanted them to be there for him. I don't know what to do. The divorce is coming and he just hates me. What is left for me? I don't know what else there is for me to do. The OW actually threatened me. I refuse to respond to her. That is just childish. H keeps asking, in reference to me talking to his folks, 'why are you doing this?' What does that mean? Why is he having an affair and filing for divorce? That is doing more to us than anything I could do. I'm just really lost right now. I don't know what else I have to fight for. Everyday I forget a little more of the 'good times' and remember the 'bad times'.

Dear SW. I am so sorry. It sounds like that H has lost all brains. This is a part of the affair. First don't delete the email print it you may need it for proof to get a restraining order against OW. She sound looney then a loon. As for H you can't help but wonder what he was going to tell his parents when he filed for divorce. THis is all part of the affair I am sory to say. They change I don't know why but to me it seems like if they hurt us enough and make us mad then they don't feel so guilty. I think a lot of it is the guilt. They try to make it seem like it is all our fault so they feel less guilty. I know this doesn't help the hurt. I know, if you remember last week's letter from my H, how you are feeling. It is hard to accept but they have changed addiction does that. You are in my prayers.<P>{{{{{HUGS}}}}} <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>I too know how you feel...<P>My W claimed <B>all</B> of these things about me... after discovery back in April...<P>It was so devastating to hear her say these things. <P>I feel bad for you now... since it is right at the holiays...<P>For me the pain of W's statements did deminish in time... They will for you too...<P>But your hurt is tremendous right now... I feel it as I type and cry for you...<P>{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>you are loved... <P>{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>don't lose hope... <P>{{{{{{{{{{<B>studentwife</B>}}}}}}}}}},<BR>don't lsoe love... <P>We care and we're here for you...<P>Jim

Studentwife..<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{Studentwife}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>The alien is doing all the thinking and speaking for him right now, but I am SOO sorry they picked Christmas to do it.<P>You did very well not to respond to OW. What a jerk!!<P>Hang in there, Sweetie, ok?<P>Lori

StudentWife,<P>What can I say???? I understand how you feel in many respects. I guess about not sharing Christams with your H, about feeling like ALL the blame is set at your feet while he is off having his affair, about feeling like you still crae about your H and want him to feel supported but everything you do to be nice is seen as manipulation, about feeling confused and helpless and more confused than you have ever felt in your entire life.<P>I have one question for you...how do you know that the e-mail us from them both?? Is it possible that b!tch (sorry, I am in the WORST venting mood ever!) wrote it ALL???? Especially the part about calling you "desperate"....that has OW written all over it. Just a thought...and could exp[lain why it arrived on Christmas Day to make the hurt all the greater. I'll even bet if she wrote it and you confronted your H, he would stick up for her and think you concocted the entire thing.<P>I hope you can find some way to work past the anger, hurt and copnfusion you feel right now. I can offer nothing in that arena, because I am fighting my own demons right now. Just wanted you to know that I care...<P>Roll Me Away <P> <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

more horrible news - <BR> <BR>Today when I logged on, I was finally able to get on to my other e-mail address. I had sent H a Christmas card wishing him a nice Christmas. He replied by saying that he got everything he wanted - away from me and someone terrific. Why doesn't he just kill me and get it over with? How could he hate me this much? <P>In response to the suggestion that OW wrote the whole e-mail - there was a consistancy throughout the e-mail, but I thought that H wrote the whole thing rather than OW. It was from his address anyway. <P>OW's H called me last night to wish me a Merry Christmas. He said that he knew what I was going through and his heart went out to me. I don't know what happened in their marriage, but I DO know how he is hurting. He talked for a little while. Both my H and OW have hurt people in their lives so badly. Will they ever wake up? Or does the 'alien' as you called it have them forever? OW's H asked if I thought they would get married eventually, and I couldn't help but think, yes. <P>Anyway, thanks for being here for me.

studentwife-<P>I am so sorry this happened on Christmas. What a crappy thing to do.<P>I do believe that his anger toward you is his guilt. He is trying to place all the blame on you so he doesn't have to look at what he has done.<P>OW does sound like a loon. It is so crazy to think that if a H could treat his W like your is, why in the heck wouldn't he one day treat the OW the same way??<P>He H did the VERY SAME THING. He blamed me, justified EVERYTHING he did to make it look like it was my fault. It's what they do. Sorry to say.<P>I way be way off here, but I think you need to go to an immediate Plan B. This abuse should not be tolerated. He certainly don't need this crap. Let him see just how "WONDERFUL" she really is.<P>Hang in there. I am sorry for your pain. I remembert those days all to well. It will get better, promise.<P>God Bless,<P>Cheryl

studentwife,<P>I have to agree with ceecee...you need to go to PlanB. I think the rejection of all this should be enough, but why be more intentionally cruel?????? Gee, your H is really rubbing the salt into the wound <P>I am sorry for this extreme hurt and insensitivity........<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

~The Desiderata~<P>Go placidly amid the noise and haste, <P>and remember what peace there may be in silence. <P>As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. <P>Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others,<P>even to the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.<P>Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit.<P>If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter,<P>for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.<P>Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. <P>Keep interested in your own career, however humble, <P>it's a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.<P>Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. <P>But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; <P>many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. <P>Be yourself. <P>Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; <P>for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,<P>it is as perennial as the grass.<P>Take kindly the counsel of the years, <P>gracefully surrendering the things of youth.<P>Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. <P>But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. <P>Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. <P>Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. <P>You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; <P>you have a right to be here. <P>And whether or not it is clear to you, <P>no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. <P>Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive him to be. <P>And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life,<P>keep peace in your soul. <P>With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. <P>Be cheerful. Strive to be happy. <P>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{studentwife}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I am so sorry to hear of what you are going through. I agree with ceecee and RMA this is abuse and you need to sepatate yourself from it. Block further emails both from his and her addresses. These are things you don't need to hear. Keep email and any others that you have received, as SDS said you may need them for evidence if worse comes to worse.<BR>I feel for you, you deserve so much better. Nobody deserves to be treated like this.<BR>Try and surround yourself with people you love and who love you in the next little while. Treat yourself to a special day with some friends. Take care of YOU. That is really all you can do at this point.<BR>God Bless You at this trying time...<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

I know this is the best advice, but try not to take it personally. The things he is saying are not based in reality and they have nothing to do with you. They have to do with him trying to restructure reality so that it justifies his behavior. It's hard to listen to all those things and it's hard not to believe it while you are emotionally drained. BUT IT'S NOT YOU. It's him.<P>Everything somebody says always comes from a certain motive. That motive is not very often bringing forth the truth. If that were so we would live in a very different world than we do…<P>More often than not people say things either to persuade or to justify their own beliefs and actions, sometimes to manipulate. Think of any example you like it still works. Even in religious circles, it's always the new recruits who are the most powerful recruiting agents. The act of convincing someone else the light of their new beliefs helps the new recruit to believe it that much more and remove any doubts they may have.<P>I don't know how related that is, but my point is anything your husband is saying is said for his benefit, not yours or anybody else's. The things he says say more about where he is at and how he wants to see the world than they do about the reality of you and your person.<P>Try my nonplused speech reverser. I find it handy for interpreting nonsensical statements for others. Here are some examples of how I might interpret some of the things he said to you:<P>He said: "..H is very angry that I told his parents what has been going on and claims that I did so to break up his family."<P>It means: " H is very angry that his parents found out what has been going on and know that what he did is breaking up his family."<P>He said: "He says that he is embarrassed that he married me."<P>It means: "He is very embarrassed with himself."<P>He said: "…he just hates me."<P>He means: "He hates having to face what's going on and needs somebody else to blame."<P>He said: "He replied by saying that he got everything he wanted - away from me and someone terrific."<P>He means: "He got everything he wanted - away from reality and someone who will help support his version of reality."<P>The way I work it is just take whatever they are saying and realize couldn't possibly be an accurate reflection of anything but how they see the world. Therefore you can remove all the "You"s and try to rewrite the sentence in the easiest way that makes sense, trying to be sensitive to whatever it is that is bugging them. Take the "you" accusations out, and then make it a statement about them. Try to be generous. You can't just reverse it, but you have to try and feel what they are feeling. Whatever emotion they are trying to cast off by blaming you.<P>That, of course, isn't going to make Christmas any better. Best wishes…<P><BR>

What a great way to look at things nonp.<BR>I had meant to make a statement about justifications, but forgot. It is true, what most of the betrayer says is to justify thier actions. Sometimes they are so far gone that they actually start to believe it.<BR>Thanks for that repley it was helpful to me as well.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

I agree with nonplused. Your H is doing everything possible to convince himself that you are at fault...not him & OW. To believe all that nonsense, you would have to be as looney & irrational as your H and OW are currently behaving. They are trying to justify their affair.<P>He's mad that his family knows the truth. You didn't do anything wrong. Does he expect this affair to be a secret forever? Now that the cat is out of the bag...I bet the ugly reality of it all starts creeping out.<P>You are a good person with a good heart. Please don't let them break you. Block further e-mails from them. Make copies in case you need to do something about harrassment in the future. I also agree that you should go into Plan B.<P>You don't deserve to be treated this way. You deserve so much and more. Please do something special for yourself. Hang out with friends & family and do some fun things.<P>I'm sorry for your pain, but remember that this is only temporary. It will get better....it really will. Even if it isn't with your H, your life will get better. My prayers are with you.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I have found myself analyzing, re-reading, and constantly thinking about that e-mail that 'they' sent me. OW was actually mad and saying that I was in her business because I spoke with her H. (just for support and friendship - not for anytype of info or anything - promise) All I can think is she is telling me what I can and cannot do, telling me not to talk to her husband when she is f***ing mine. I know that is a vulgar comment. <P>nonplused - wow. That really helped. Your post actually reminds me of those articles I used to read in Cosmo "He says, he means" or something like that. <P>All - I have surrounded myself with friends and family lately. It has helped a little. I'm sure they are tired of hearing about my 'problem'. (that is why you guys are SO GREAT ) Does anyone else have a problem with their attention span?? I feel really guilty about it. My friends and family try to talk to me, but if they talk for more than a couple of minutes - my mind wanders. I usually end up saying 'what' a lot during the course of a conversation trying to catch up with what I have missed during my 'journey'. <P>Anyway. Thank you so much. I pray that you all are right and that it is his fantasy life and desire to stay in it as long as possible that has made him say the things he has said to me with NO consideration for my feelings. I don't know what will happen over the next few days, weeks, months and thinking that the person I love the most in the world has such contempt for me is the worst feeling. Thanks again and I will keep you (us) all in my thoughts and prayers.

Questions about Plan B:<P>I posted some of this in a reply to lostva.<P>I haven't actually spoken to H in 7 weeks. He has expressed a GREAT desire to get a divorce (which I have left COMPLETELY up to him to do). Would a Plan B letter actually help the situation or hurt? I'm thinking maybe I should just cut off contact (e-mail). My fear is that a Plan B letter would give him relief and he would say "Finally!"<P>Tidbit - OW is letting her H deal with their divorce while she lives in her fantasy world with my H. I am afraid my H is just waiting for me to deal with the ugly (like OW's H)so he too can live happily in his fantasy world.

Studentwife,<BR> I'm sorry for your pain. Not much to add other than I think they think they HAVE to hate us to do this. You wouldn't believe the stupid things my W gets mad at like me talking to OM X/fiance'. So be VERY careful with that one. The (H &OW) will say you are "Ganging up" on them. Bad news believe me!<P> One other thing. You asked "How could he hate me this much?"<BR> Remember <P>"Hate isn't the opposite of LOVE indifference is" <P>He still loves you or remembers he loves you because you can not "truly" hate someone unless you love them. Make any sense? <BR>good LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK

studentwife,<P>I think holding back on the divorce is <B>always</B> the best thing... do as little as you can... If you need to <B>protect</B> yourself legally (and/or financially)... or you need a lawyer to take care of paperwork... I usually make the recommendation of finding a <B>good</B> attorney. A good place to start off is at the <A HREF="http://lawyers.martindale.com/marhub/form/by.html" TARGET=_blank>Martindale-Hubbell Lawyer Search</A> site. Do a search within your county... look for only "family law" specialists(>80% in divorce/custody/etc.)... make sure they do a lot of "family law committee work"... if they know the judges all the better... You can normally find a few that will give initial counselling free of charge. I've used this to help others find a couple of 'good' attorneys... having a good one means your H's fantasy world is dented a bit quicker.<P>--------------------------------------------<P>I feel I am on the verge of moving to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>...<P>In fact I have a 10AM (EST) appointment today with Steve Harley... (it's a first appointment) to hopefully discuss <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> and other issues. I'll be posting the results and what makes sense for everyone to know later in the afternoon.<P>There have been some good discussions on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> in the past... I put up a post about it a short time back... take a look at it...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011046.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101</A>. Maybe my post latter today... and the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/011046.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101</A> post will help you decide whether now is the right time or not... <P>Jim

Student wife, <BR> I have been reading your posts off and on for several days. As one who is trying to recover and rebuild marriage after learning of H's 6 year affair and baby with OW, I have some idea of the pain you are experiencing. We have been married nearly 25 years, and this situation has broken my heart. I have known for 14 months, and there are still days when it is all I can do to get through the day. H says he regrets all of it and wishes he could erase it, but we both know we will live with this for the rest of our lives. Fortunately, at my age that means 20 years or so tops. But if I were in your position with no children, a relatively short time married, and a long life ahead of me, I would run, not walk, to the nearest attorney and divorce this cruel, insensitive man.<P>Yes, I agree with some of the posts that he probably doesn't mean all the terrible things he has said to you and permitted the OW to say to you. But remember, HE had a choice in this situation....you did not. He could have prevented all of this pain and cruelty, but was too selfish to do so. While there is a possibility that he will "come to his senses" somewhere down the road, beg your forgiveness, and say he wants to rebuild the marriage, can you live with how painful that will be? Will you even be able to get past the hurt he has placed in your life and allowed another woman to do as well? Do you want to be the mother of children by a man who clearly is capable of this behavior. What if he does this after a child or two? Please consider YOU first. You are obviously a devoted, loving woman that many men would thank God to have in their lives. Please think carefully before going through months and years of pain and insecurity to hold on to a relationship that your husband obviously does not value as you do. He doesn't deserve you.