Hi, I'm new here, but I have a question for the forum: Can a friendship with someone of the opposite sex (ie; neighbor, coworker)actually help a marriage? If this relationship is completely platonic between two happily married people? I'm just curious......

Can a friendship with someone of the opposite sex (ie; neighbor, coworker)actually help a marriage?
No.

If the friendship is with both married people and the friend, it is acceptable.
But the friend and the opposite sex married person should not "hang out" alone or carry on the friendship alone.

Wow, Chris, that seems a bit harsh. What if this person is a coworker who has not yet met your spouse? I just feel like as long as the understanding exists between two happily married people sharing a friendship (at work only, no meetings outside the job)it should be okay. Particularly if the conversations are confined largely to work related issues. I have to say that I have found my self esteem greatly enhanced by my platonic friendship with my male coworkers, and feeling good about myself, and the work I do, has made me a better wife, I think. (I've recently returned to work after 15 years) Is this a slippery slope? I just don't see any danger in this, but I'm a huge fan of Dr. Harley, so I'm open to any discussion. Thanks!

I guess it depends what you mean by “friendship”.
Of course you are going to know & talk with people your spouse does not know. If you have work to do with this person and talk a bit, then there should be no problem. You should not be going to lunch alone or going over and just talking with this person.

What if this person is a coworker who has not yet met your spouse?
Then it is much easier to screw things up.

I just feel like as long as the understanding exists between two happily married people sharing a friendship (at work only, no meetings outside the job)it should be okay. Particularly if the conversations are confined largely to work related issues
Right.

I have to say that I have found my self esteem greatly enhanced by my platonic friendship with my male coworkers, and feeling good about myself, and the work I do,
This is where the problems can start.
If these people (or one person in particular) are building your “self-esteem”, then it is much easier to seek out their friendship with other things.
For example, you have a little spat with hubby and go to work. This person is someone you get along great with and is easy to talk to. Now you stop by and he sees you’re a bit upset and asks what’s wrong. You tell him about your argument and he sympathizes with you.

This is how things can simply get out of control.
People end up saying, “I didn’t mean to have an affair. It just “happened!”

Is this a slippery slope?
It can be.

I just don't see any danger in this
Then you need to understand above and how it CAN be a danger.
As long as you are aware of what can happen and take steps to prevent it, it is less likely to happen.

<small>[ July 22, 2004, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Chris, just so that I'm clear on this (because I am definitely not looking to have an affair with anybody) if the friendship is confined to the workplace and no intense conversations about personal issues are shared, than it should be ok, right? When I said that my self esteem has been enhanced, it's due to the fact that I feel accepted and competent in my job. I do not discuss my personal life with anyone, nor do I encourage anyone to share that information with me. I can't imagine any line ever being crossed,(I'm not even attracted to any man I work with) but I will remain vigiliant, because I know who innocently these things can begin, based on my readings from Dr. Harley. Thanks for your feedback!

You have it correct.

Most people don't go out looking for an affair.
It "just happens" because they fail to set or adhere to their own boundaries and keep moving those boundaries out a bit (the slippery slope).

A GOOD way to keep these boundaries is to make sure your spouse knows about these people.

Have you read, "His Needs, Her Needs"?

Kay,

My wifes lover started out as a friend,,, not saying you are my wife but if you truly feel it may not be ok then it seems you doubt it allready. You are asking is it ok. Chris has pretty much answered that the best it can be answered. Just be careful of the amount of friendship you offer this male co worker. The work place is the #1 environment where affairs are initiated. So try not to put to much faith in to the way of thinking "hes just a co worker" because most of the OW and OM are usually just co workers. Thats how a WW and WH justify an EA at work by saying "we just work together" all I am saying is dont get too friendly,, and dont sympathize with his personal problems as well as tell him yours.

<small>[ July 22, 2004, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: eric. n ]</small>

Kaylee,
I'm glad you posted. There are 1,000s of BSs who wish that their FWS or WS had posted a similar question prior to anything happening.

A great book to read (besides Harley's) is "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

It is excelent especially for the workplace environment. In it Glass says that many workplace affairs start out on a purely business level but that slowly people become closer due to the bonding effect that a team environment can offer. You described yourself...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When my self esteem has been enhanced, it's due to the fact that I feel accepted and competent in my job. ... I (however)can't imagine any line ever being crossed, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have found my self esteem greatly enhanced by my platonic friendship with my male coworkers, and feeling good about myself, and the work I do, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's a slow process in most cases.

I don't think anyone is accusing you of going out of your way to find an inappropriate relationship. Due to our experience here, we are just trying to warn you that it can very easily happen.

Here are some guidelines:

-Never discuss personal information with a male coworker. Personal info goes beyond discussing the state of your marriage. It includes anything that creates intimacy. Don't even share your likes, dislikes, opinions etc. Sharing this info can create a bond. If a male coworker starts to give you his personal data, warning bells should go off in your head.

-Never got to lunch alone with a male coworker

-Never go to afterwork functions alone

-Communicate with your spouse about work people and issues. Don't glowingly discuss a male coworker. Can make spouse jealous which in turn upsets you and creates issues.

-Take all praise from male coworkers in stride. May be warranted but may also be flattery.

-Be very wary of business trips especially if the male coworker picks the team.

-Workplace flirting can turn sexual very quickly be careful

I'm sure I've missed a bunch. Buy the book I suggested. It will be a good guideline and will help your career bc you'll stay way from personal entanglments.

Now, what brought you to MB? How is your marriage? Do you and H communicate well? Do you follow the policy of Radical Honesty? Do you discuss marriage issues or sweep them under the carpet? Give some info on your relationship with H.

Mac

Kaylee,

I used to be very naive when it came to male/female friendship, but it really is a slippery slope. My H is a very nice person, very easy to talk and he has a way of attracting women. One of the reason why I fell in love with him is because of our conversations and how easy it was to talk to him. I'd never met anyone like him before. Well, he has the same effect on other women. I used to think that it was okay that he talked to other women and had female friends, but I learned my lesson. Things quickly progressed from talking about work, hobbies to females confiding in him about their issues with boyfriends/husbands and one thing led to another.

Now, our own M had not been the greatest during this time. There had been lots of stresses, mainly related to work and finances, but also some personal ones and our M as definitely not in the best shape that it could be in and we BOTH contributed to this state, but this made it even easier for him to fall for another woman because OW sensed how much he craved attention and admiration. I had not done a good job in this area...

I think platonic interactions with other males at work are fine, as long as you do not share personal information about your M, your husband or other intimate details with your coworker. Be very careful during business trips, work functions and after-hour get-togethers.

Most affairs start in the workplace...

Kati

Kaylee, my H had a "friendship" with a woman he met during his firefighter course. They spent long hours together at this class and traveled places together for the class, they became friends, then he became attracted to her and then the PA started from there. It snowballs out of control. You just can't put yourself in a position, even if you don't think you'd do it, to be able to have any type of emotional bond with another man.

Hi all! Gosh, I love this site! Wonderful, informative feedback from all of you. I especially appreciate the male perspective (Eric and Mac-you are male, too?) Ok Mac, let me give you my profile. Marriage is improving after quite a rough patch. Met H when I just turned 19, married him right after college and got pregnant on honeymoon. Have daughter age 16 and son age 11. I never had another relationship, never been unfaithful, and worked very little outside the home until 1 1/2years ago. Hubby was threatened with a lay off and I went back to grad school and am now a HS teacher. We went to MC 6 monthes ago because of ongoing issues with anger management, depression, verbal abuse. (not to suggest that I was blameless, by the way..) I had already lost 30 pounds due to depression, (got to the point that I couldn't eat at home because the stress was so bad..)and I put myself through school so that I could leave the marriage if need be. He went to MC and told her he was and is committed to our marriage. He even went on an antidepressant which help him quite a bit. I am so grateful that he is trying. I found MB while I was checking out Christian counseling sites online, and I love Dr. Harley's philosophy. His writings on EA's is what prompted me to ask the forum about friendships with the opposite sex. Because I've had very little interaction with men in general, I'm afraid I'm a bit naive, and I'm glad to hear everyone else's thoughts on this subject. Looking forward to reading more posts!

Kaylee-

My W had a friendship with a friend of ours who was a minister. I had no problem with the friendship because we were happily married, he was a minister...what could happen? Well, he started confiding in my W about the stresses of the ministry, problems in his own marriage, etc. She got hooked and the EA lasted 5 months until I stepped in. Even today, my W cannot explain how it happened. It just takes off and you can't stop. The personal stuff in conversation and anything one-on-one creates the environment for an EA. Be careful.

Point well taken, Maduro. I just can not believe how innocently these situations (especially EA's) begin. I never would have thought twice about my spouse speaking to a minister. But I guess that those conversations lead to a level of intmacy that crossed the line. I wish you all the best in your marriage-Thank you for sharing your story!

Maduro-One question: When you said you "stepped in", how did you intervene to end you wife's EA? I'm very curious......

Kaylee,
CWMAc suggested the book, 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass. Get it. Read it!

Kaylee-

Stepped in is probably a poor choice of words on my part. I overheard a phone call between them, disclosed what I knew to another minister and confronted the minister (also a friend of mine) involved. It ended immediately. There were hundreds of phone calls on my wife's cell phone that she kept secret from me. Nothing romantic. Just a lot of energy going toward an inappropriate friendship. This about destroyed our 19 year marriage. It was very painful.

My husband is very outgoing, socialable and friendly, so he tells anyone who will listen (strangers, bartenders, women he just met in seminars...) intimate details about our personal life. He is self-employed, therefore no work environment, but having opposite-sex friends/acquaintences is definately not a good idea. I told him only mutual friends is acceptable, but he thinks this is stupid. Because if he was going to have another affair, it would be with a nice looking girl, not the old bags at these seminars (he thinks mentoring women at seminars is cool, has called them, emails them, etc. & our therapist says ok). I think we should both read Not Just Friends book.

My husband is very outgoing, socialable and friendly, so he tells anyone who will listen (strangers, bartenders, women he just met in seminars...) intimate details about our personal life. He is self-employed, therefore no work environment, but having opposite-sex friends/acquaintences is definately not a good idea. I told him only mutual friends is acceptable, but he thinks this is stupid. Because if he was going to have another affair, it would be with a nice looking girl, not the old bags at these seminars (he thinks mentoring women at seminars is cool, has called them, emails them, etc. & our therapist says ok). I think we should both read Not Just Friends book.

THere are several posts now discussing friendships outside of the marrige. I've read alot of Dr. Harley in the past few months, but don't recall him addressing this issue in detail or did I miss it? Can someone point me in that direction? My H is very friendly, outgoing, hyper-social & meets women now at work seminars (self-employed). He had a EA (I think) last year with a stripper & I don't trust him (he lies alot). He thinks it's silly of me to ask him not to chat/email etc with these women. We are starting MB therapy soon. Any ideas?

Kaylee:

I was pretty naive too when it came to relationships between men and women. I always trusted my wife and myself to do the right thing. But, please understand that it is a "slippery slope," as you said. Sometimes when we receive an emotional satisfaction from that other person it can quickly become an emotional affair which will quickly become a physical affair. In your original post you said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to say that I have found my self esteem greatly enhanced by my platonic friendship with my male coworkers, and feeling good about myself, and the work I do, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When the person fills a need for you like that to the point where you really look forward to your interaction with them because of the way it makes you feel; you are well on your way to an emotional affair.

Be careful. Most of us on the board are living our own personal hells because of this kind of behavior was never curbed and stopped. The WS continued and pursued that "feeling," and here we are today.

If you were a friend of mine I would beg you to stop putting yourself into a position where you could fall into this pit. You said at the outset of your post that you weren't "looking to have an affair," but, that's what almost every WS says after the affair is over.

Take care.

Out!