RunningWithScissors, thank you for your post. I agree with everything you've said and will be taking the advice of all of those who have posted here. I read "Not Just Friends", and some other books regarding EA/PA's and I realize that I'd already started down that slope, however inadvertantly. I had a several male friends (and one in particular)who I would lunch with, and we did have personal conversations about our families. I still have a hard time believing anyone would have an ulterior motive,and maybe they didn't, but I would never create a situation where something could happen. I'm just not interested in that. I guess I had a false sense of security because I'm so open about my love for my husband and commitment to our family, and we only talked about our family lives if we had personal conversations, at all, and they seemed to be so happy in their marriages.(I would certainly have discouraged any personal/romantic type comments) Anyway, no more private lunches or personal conversations for me at work. I never went "out for drinks" with coworkers, although I was always invited, and I'm glad about that, too. I was always eager to get home. Better safe than sorry, right? Thanks again to everyone who shared their stories, good luck!

Kaylee: I'm not going to say anything that already hasn't been said. But, it's a very fine line--very fine line. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I shut down from my marriage after my wife's shutdown. I simply gave up--I was screaming, but nobody heard me. So I put my energy into somehere it would be appreciated and noticed--work. And I was living a double-life--me at work and me at home. All during this, I befriended a female co-worker who understood me, who I could confide in. And it turned into: who could make me laugh, who could tellit like it is, who I could make laugh, who I found comfort in and vice versa. Getting the picture? I had already lost my best friend (my wife) so what harm could this do? Then it became conversations that one would expect to have only with a spouse. That's when it became inappropriate. Damnit, I have a wife to talk about these things with! (And it's also where I'm having an internal struggle with the NC as I absolutely know it became inappropriate topics, but I also know I would never let it happen again if I were to be in the same situation. That's just me.) And it could have been very "easy" to advance to any level of the "next stage." "Luckily" we both realized what was going on and it didn't. Still, the "damage" was done because I poured my heart out to this OW--deposits I should have been making in my wife's account.

If this OW had another agenda (like so many wayward, lonely, lost souls out there), it very well may have led to a PA. It didn't, but hopefully you can see the "danger" that everyone else has pointed out in their own ways and situations. Again, still, the "damage" was done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ July 28, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

LINY, I'm curious about your situation....What made you "put the brakes on" and discontinue your growing EA with your coworker? How did you recognize what was happening? Do you still work together? It sounds like you're on the right path, now, and I wish you all the best. Thanks for sharing your story!

Not in any order, unfortunately, yes, we still work together. (One of my earlier posts goes into the details, but, yes, my wife works there too. Me night shift and my wife day shift.) So, just in the basic principle of NC, it is near impossible.
There were mainly two things (with a third of Divine Intervention) that caused me and the friend to reevaluate things: 1 was simply, we both realized in the situations that we were in (both married) it was highly unfair to everyone involved to take our friendship any further, if we were to ever be put in that position. It was just a conscious decision we both made after discussions started veering off the friendship path. (Like I said, even just the "discussing" part my wife is having a hard time dealing with it. Maybe I'm using the wrong word "discussing", but once that line was crossed to from the emotional content only, we realized that it just couldn't be taken further. Another reason why it really does irk me to some extent that my wife demanded NC with her. If it was not for us being mature and rational about it, we could have taken it further. But, understandably, my wife is only seeing it from one perspective.)
The second? Like I said, my wife had completely shut down, then I did. When she awoke from her hibernation, I did recognize it. It was just concurrently that my friendship was where it was. I needed (need) to give this marriage a chance again.
That's the short version. If need be, I'll find my original post which gave *all* of the details of my situation and do some copying and pasting over here.
Oh...and the Divine Intervention? I had prayed for help in showing me if my marriage is worth the effort and worth trying again. (That's how bad it is--was.) Literally, the very next day, my wife found an email I had sent to her stating that I needed to give my marriage a try...for her not just be complacent with hers and demand more...and that I loved her. Of course, wifey flipped, but it started an open line of communication which we hadn't had for years--years!
It's a very fine line, Kaylee. I say again, and not to send sexist--heck, it's actually more of a putdown to my side--but, there are alot of people out there who are lost, just don't give a s#$t, just want "the prize", other selfish agendas...well, you get my drift. Luckily, this OW was/is truly a good friend. Easily, we could have taken advantage of the situation--either one of us. Thankfully, we were strong enough and wary enough to know and conscious of the "big picture." As a note of extreme caution, I truly think my situation is a miniscule percentage of "friendships"/EA's that's not based in "the fog" and what everyone talks about on this board. Yes, feelings did "just happen"--it's part of the process where I had noone else to give myself too. And maybe, just maybe, my wife knows me better than I think and she was feeling these vibes that, as far away as i already was, that I was going even further away, which "woke" her up. There's alot still to be found out in my marriage...

LINY, thanks so much for the clarification. I'm still pretty new to MB, so I haven't read all the post/threads. I don't mean to pry, but I'm curious about something else: Were you attracted to this coworker before your friendship intensified? The reason I'm asking, is that any male coworker that I've been friendly with is not a person that I'm attracted to. Again, that's why these workplace friendships have always felt "safe". After reading Dr. Harley's LoveBank theory, it seems that someone making deposits could suddenly become very attractive, even if they weren't before. I'd love to hear your story, and read other posts that discuss this. Thanks again for sharing your story!

Kaylee, you're not prying. I came here for help, which meant I had to open myself up and be truthful. Something I should have been doing with my wife all of theses years.

This was my original post. As a disclaimer, even in the short time I've been here I've learned *alot* and understand somehwat of the responses I received, namely "Why did you come to MB?" as the tone does sound a bit like I didn't want to work on my marriage. Another disclaimer, don't mean to threadjack, but I'll just blame it on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Here it is:

"My situation--please be prepared to read a novel. Some posts are so insightful and right in front of you, you don't realize it--much like love, huh? (Oh, and I work with abbreviations all day--that coupled with the fact I'm learning this site's terminology, it's going to make for an even longer post as I try to stay away from them in "normal" life!):
Friends 13; Married 11 years; Me 34 (today!); Wife 36; 4 children (two from her before we were we, 19 & 18) and two of ours, 10 & 2. We met at work--became fiends, best friends, fell madly in love and got married. (She certainly was not looking at the time; neither was I, as I was living with someone at the time--a total dependent (her part) relationship until I got out.) We moved in together, made plans to get married, got pregnant, pushed up the wedding date by a year as we wanted to be married before our child was born, and for the first few years, we were the ideal couple--a couple who friends always looked up to and admired.
Because we work in the same place and we had the availability of working two different shifts, we did just that. (I know all of the posts talk about not putting that space there, but out of necessity for daycare, we had to. It actually made our relationship stronger--it made us not take things for granted and made our time together that much more intense--and our love.)
About halfway through our marriage, she had a nervous breakdown. A lot of crap from her past that was waiting like a time bomb to go off and she certainly did implode. Issues that had nothing to do with me, but one: How can anyone love me so much and I don't even love myself? Through years of my encouragement and her determination--what a difference! She has done absolutley incredible for herself!--she is quite a woman--not the same woman I married, but nonetheless. In the meantime, I realized I am a gambler. (And not your run-of-the-mill gambler either--"scratch-offs" only--you know, instant gratification? But that's just everything like me as I see and have been told--I'm not your stereotypical man. I know that sounds conceited, which it's not--I am only learning now how to be selfish.)
We started our downfall a few years before her breakdown--20/20 is hindsight. We started losing touch with "everything"--but I always received the response, "It's not you. It's me." I didn't know what was going on until that day when life came crashing down around her and she hit rock-bottom--and hard. I didn't understand. But I still stuck by her as best I could and gave her as much support as I could muster up, while still maintaining a household completely by myself and raising three children by myself. I gave everything I had. Hence, I'm realizing now that my gambling problem took off--we were having monetary problems, on top of the fact I wanted to give this woman and my kids the world. I didn't see it as a problem at first and I had her as an enabler--what did she know in the state that she was in?--but, again 20/20 is hindsight. Now, both on the road to recovery (really, there is no recovery--just knowing how to deal with it (depression and gambling)), making leaps and bounds with our progress (separately--which HAD to be done alone, even though we were "together"); we are now just coexisting. I finally started to stop stuffing--just a glaring example of how when one rectifies one thing, there is a deeper meaning to it, and certainly more questions erupt--and expressing myself. But, in the situation we were (still are in many ways) my expressions were not really what she wanted to hear. I threw my hands up, gave everything, noone was responsive, expressed this as well, and verbally and, well, in all ways, said "I give up." That was probably about two years ago, even though it started well before that. I thought the birth of our second daughter (which she too was unplanned) would be a trigger--a good one. A blessing--absolutely, but, not the results I thought that would flourish in her. Still no response. All we were doing was coexisting. (We are still working different shifts, but we flip-flopped them.)
I was not getting any (ANY) satisfaction from my marriage. If anything, I was hurting real bad, I guess baby steps into my own depression. (I REFUSE to go there, though!) I emersed myself into work, where I have taken leaps and bounds and got results and satisfaction (even with all of the bulls*** I have to deal with daily.)
All through these years, we let everything slip away--including our friends and close contact with our families. We did nothing. My only contact with real people was really only at work, and in the position I am in at work, I really can't talk to anyone. (So, after years of learning how to unstuff, what do I have to do?!?!? Stuff again! But I know the difference now.)

Now, this is where I have two separate issues going on--and I HAVE to keep them separate, but they are running parallel. (Which, if you look past the stereotypical emotional affair, this really is not--I was not searching for anything--just going through the motions--it hit me, I didn't seek it.) Even before I explain the situation below, I feel like I need to explain my feelings about my marriage were already coming to fruition and being expressed--this, just is literally driving me more crazy.
I am very gregarious and befriended a woman at work, who I could just relax with for five minutes (on our cigarette breaks) and "let loose" on each other, knowing through time we had each others trust. We really didn't even like each other when we first met years ago! Low and behold, we became close. It was gradual, unplanned, unexpected, and unintentional--and very untimely (if that's a word.) But I can't ignore it either--it happened and it's there. This OW as everyone refers to is also not your stereotypical "other woman." Once we realized where our friendship could've been going and perceived, we needed to put the brakes on. As SHE stated, she doesn't want to be known as a "homewrecker" and knows that I need to resolve my marriage. (There hasn't been (and will not be, with the length of our discussions and understanding of each other) any physical affair. It's not right, we made vows to other people, disrespectful, etc. etc.)
So, with this going on in my life at the same time, my wife now is expressing everything she hasn't done for years. Why now? After I expressed the fact I'm "giving up?" After just coexisting for so long? After maybe even falling out of love with her over these years? We have an open line of communication again (or maybe for the first time. I don't know.) And she's expressed she says I am her soul mate. She feels hope. I've expressed I don't feel hope. I've expressed that I *will* always love her, but I really don't know if I'm *in* love with her. (I know, so high-school-ish.) I've expressed, I don't know if the damage done (very quite extensive) is reparable, or even worth trying to fix. And I keep repeating the phrase/answer/question, "I don't know." I don't. And my question: I don't know if I want to. Is it worth that pain? Will it even work out? Is it going to be more wasted time for the same result--more pain? How does one know if they "want" to or not? It's a basic question--and yes, I know, only I can answer. I know we have to resolve our problems & differences--which may wind up in S or D. Which, is OK with me, I guess, *as long as she's OK and my children are not hurt.* And we are happy. I don't know if I can be happy with or without her."

One of the biggest things is communication. We both lacked it at variious stages of our marriage, and with counseling I'll be entering into (looking for one currently!) I'm terrified of things that will be coming to the surface. But at the very least, it will help me--and resolve many issues that were left on the wayside throughout our marriage.

The other change/proactive behavior is the NC and my comment that "I won't give her up as a friend" part. To the best of my situation allows, I understand I need to.

In answer to your specific question: the first time we were introduced, she actually hated me! Absolutely no physical attraction whatsoever. But physical attraction is the result (at least for me) of emotional attraction.

So, there it is. I hope I gave you some sort of insight! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />