Hi D,<P>It's taken a bit longer to get back to you than I'd hoped...but I hope what follows will help. I've had a chance to let what you posted sink in as well as reading the great responses from some of our friends.<P>There's so much I want to say. That's why I started a new thread. Yours was really getting long!<P>The first thing I want to say is more philosophical than anything. But, I believe it applies. I see the world as one of infinite shades of grey. There's rarely anything that totally "fits". There's rarely a rule without exception (even some global assumptions such as the immutable laws of physics). There's the POTENTIAL always that one of our most fundamental assumptions is wrong.<P>Having said that, we all need models. They help us understand, predict, and evaluate. But, I tend not to trust any model. At least not forever. I always try to keep an eye out for the one little quirk that doesn't apply.<BR>Sounds like you do too.<P>Where am I going with this? Well..... back to Plan A/B again. Even as hard as I've thought about what everyone has discussed here, I do still believe it applies for you. Needing your own specific modification and maintenance depending on how the future unfolds.<P>As some of the other folks have observed, your wife's biggest issue appears to be one of "freedom". She wants autonomy to do what she wants. She wants freedom of choice and blames you for restricting her. I have some interesting experience which may be of use. More on that later.<P>In some major ways, the Harley model DOES apply to your wife. She IS acting like a classic infidel. Maybe she's more subtle than others of us, maybe more complex, but she's doing it. How?<P>Self-centeredness.<BR>Delusion.<BR>Meaning-of-life questions.<BR>Blaming the spouse for one's own insecurities and needs.<BR>A hunger to "connect" her unfullfilled needs (DNA loose ends, as Suse calls them).<BR>Rebelliousness.<BR>NOT one's "old self".<P>Gee, now that I think of it... that sounds like me!!! When I was the infidel. And, it sounds like my OW. My Wife. My brother-in-law. My best friend's wife (now ex). And just about everyone else I've known who has gone thru this. It's the temporary insanity of infidelity.<P>See what I mean? We're all different, yes. But, in many ways, the same.<P>Your wife is blaming you for restricting her. Perhaps in the past, you did. I don't know. And, it almost doesn't even matter if you did. She THINKS you did. So, now in her own way, she's gonna be "bad as I wanna be". Sorry, my friend. Been there. So did my OW. I'm back with my wife. MY OW continued to be bad and remarried. Left a great guy and two wonderful little kids.<P>Interesting, eh? Some return, some depart. How can you predict who will do what with certainty? Can't.<P>Plan A/B is about increasing your odds. I do believe it. And, you have to apply the tools as you see fit.<P>There have been some great suggestions on your thread... some profound insights:<P>1. She might accomplish what she set out to do. And, lose a whole bunch as a consequence that she'd not wanted to consider. She may even potentially recreate the situation with someone else. Classic infidel behaviour.<P>2. She might be testing you. Yep, been there. My OW painfully beseeched one nite that all she wanted was her H to step in and take control. Show that he really cared. Not that this is necessarily your situation, I just use it as an example of her test. Just try the idea on for size.<P>3. Desiree posed that she may hate her freedom once she has it. RMA concurred, I think. So do I. This would be the classic behaviour of a remorseful betrayer coming back to reality.<P>DeWayne, I'm gonna try to wrap up here with a fundamental point: it ain't about you, it's about her. Yup, you're right. The crux of it all is NOT about the OP, it's about what's within her. What is she lacking? <P>So many times for so many people, the betrayer is trying to resolve something inside. So many times, the perceived solution is to throw out the old, rebel against the spouse. I still think you've got this same situation. Maybe more subtly than some, but you've got it.<P>She's afraid. She's defiant at the same time.<P>So, what do you do? I still think it's a more subtle version of A/B. For the fundamental assumption STILL applies....<P>Marriage is about commitment. It's about giving of yourself to one and one only. It's about sharing in a very personal, intimate, and unique way. It is two becoming one. My wedding band has the initials of my wife and I with the word "unum" joining them. The symbolism may be trite but it's been good for thousands of years. <P>The two ARE different. Of course none of us are the same people. We have different needs.<P>Marriage is about CHOOSING to be together. It's about sharing and compromise.<P>Your wife wants to have what she has with you. And, she wants no restrictions on exploring how she's going to fill her unmet needs. <P>Unh unh. She can't have both. Plan A's about trying to indirectly get the betrayer to remember what they really do have by enhancing what is good. Plan B's about taking it away to remind them of what they'll lose.<P>Does it work? No guarantees. Just better odds of success. You're fighting for your marriage. You love your wife. She's got lots of qualities that you cherish. Play this with every trick and subtlety you can. <P>Should you offer her divorce? No way. Tease her with the potential? Maybe. As a test, perhaps? But, string it out, don't give in. Like you said, she's obsessed with leaving. But, it sounds like the insanity of infidelity talking. Keep that lifeline out there. Even tho' you have to risk it being perceived as being a leash. A fine line, it is.<P>Hope this helps. <P>ps...re-reading in order to see if things are clear as possible.<P>[This message has been edited by DuncanMac (edited December 26, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by DuncanMac (edited December 26, 1999).]

D-Mac - sorry to jump in but just checking on my friend. GREAT points!!<P>Hey DeWayne, I'm w/ him!! <P>Lori

<B>dMac</B> -- Wow! You and the others really have me thinking now. I need to digest this before I can give a better response. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Isn't it funny how we sometimes turn ourselves around once it is too late? I have been feeling a sea change come over me in the last 3-4 days. I can't explain it and I know I'm not finished. I just know how I feel. I wish I could somehow let W into my head so she could see and know what is happening to me. It sure would remove some of her doubts and make her more amenable to a resolution. But, that cannot be done.<P>Thanks again, so much, dMac....<P><B>Lori</B> -- Thanks so much you good friend. You know, I may be w/him also soon. I really need to mull all of this and what was in my other thread over.<P>Hugs.....<P>--DeWayne--

Duncan,<P>You hit the nail on the head. I think you finally got the collective gist of what we were all trying to say to DeWayne. <P>DeWayne,<P>I see POTENTIAL here - as Duncan is saying...there is something she wants here and something she needs and she hasn't figured it all out yet. I posted this a couple days ago...a bird sometimes needs to strut around and spread and flutter its wings and when it is all over with, it is still the same old bird. <P>Keep thinking.....<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

<B>Desiree</B> -- Potential is better than resignation that's for sure....I will keep thinking...<P>If I decide to go this route, I'm going to need more advice and help(as if I have to say that).<P>Thanks for being there..<P><BR>--DeWayne--

DeWayne,<P>AHHHHH, music to this girl's ears...to be NEEDED! HMMMPPPFFFF! Well, the depression will have to go, because how can I help you if I am focused on myself???<P>You sly dog, you saw a way to hoist me out of the pit...you dropped the lure and I took the bait and you hooked me and are reeling me up.<P>OK, I got a little smile, now.<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Desiree,<P>You sweet-talkin' lil' thing. Now we just have to make that smile a little wider. I'll sit here and make funny faces into the PC monitor. If you look closely, you will see me.<P>Brighter days are ahead for all of us...<P>--DeWayne--

DeWayne,<P>Yeah, you are getting some teeth showing, now. WOW! Something looks really WEIRD on my monitor...I might have to re-boot.... <P>I am going to clean up my den...I feel the energy coming back a little bit.<P>I'll be back (in my best Arnold voice, which isn't too hot!).........<P>Desiree<BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

<B>DMac</B>, Geez, I wish my H would read this and digest it... truer words... and all that! He's moving the end of his stuff out today... sad day. <P><B>DeWayne</B>, You're such a good guy... you will do this and you will not only survive (like the song says) but you will prosper... I'm <B>sure</B> of it. It may not all work out like you plan, but it will work out for <B>the best</B>. You have a good heart!<P>~Sheryl

<B>Sheryl</B> --<BR>Thanks so much for the kind words, they mean a lot. I've got so much to decide, keep the marriage, end the marriage, plan A, plan B, etc. It's a lot to consider. Also have to involve W at some point in this...<P>I'm so sorry David is still moving out. It's hard for me to understand, you guys are a whole heck of a lot closer to coming together than W and I are. It frustrates me all to heck. I know how it must be for you. But, you are doing <B>nothing</B> and this is good.<P>--DeWayne--