Thanks all for the encouragement......seems I will need it.
Yesterday was great...today ...well..lets see
had the day off because the breaks were getting fixed and I had heaps of time up.... slept in a bit to 8.30, wife got up - she having the day off as well, kids all sick, some bug going around and it was pouring so I said ok you two back to bed sleep it off...
wife says 'they're big enough to know that!' ah..okkk..glares from kids to mum who stalked away.
Then I made a cup of tea for her & me as usual...'Did I ask you to do anything'? ah no just thought you would like a cup of tea..she did drink it but looked determined not to enjoy it?? ( Completely confused my now)

Sat down and started to read sports pages as she read the rest of the paper.
'Why in hell cant you leave me alone for awhile?'
So I just said oh didn't know you wanted some space I'll go read it in the office..
'Did I say I wanted you out of here?' ah no love just thought you would like some peace & quiet.
So I get up not trying to pay an special attention to her, reading the Footy results and get another tea when she says
'Just stop being nice to me will you."
ah okkkkk but I always get you a cup of tea in the morning...'I KNOW YOU DO, why do you have to be so nice about it all'
So click into place she is talking about the A and me keeping my mouth shut over the last week or so.
Told her that we said at the MC we would try to be good to each other in the meantime.
'I didn't expect you to keep it not after..' she just sort of glared & did not finish. I just was straight faced and & said you deserve as much respect as you ever did as I got my cup of tea and then I walked off towards the office...sure I saw a glimmer of very moist eyes there.

The rest of the day was a mix of almost comments from her to few similar comments and silence.

So what going on?
Is this a fog type withdrawal or guilt thing?
I mean I tried to say nothing confrontational and keep to the MC agreement to not attack each other.
Just hard to pick what she will be like day to day right now though. I really dont know where she is in her own mind right now.
I know that further down the track there is supposed to be a 'plan' to protect my emotions and feelings according to the MC, but all I seem to get now is a mix of scorn and well I suppose it is remorse but it comes over like 'well its your fault anyway' sort of thing.
its so much easier to see things when its not you in these posts.

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: aussie2 ]</small>

Aussie,

Did you NOT know that IT WAS ALL YOUR FAULT??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Man, where have you been. Everyone knows that to a WS in withdrawal and deep guilt it is always the BS's fault. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Actually, you did well. She is in what is called a state of conflict which is much better than the state of withdrawal. We are talking about your relationship here, not the A. Conflict means she is processing things and she is trying to deal with her guilt, shame, and she does NOT know what to do with it.

It is progress Aussie, but not much fun. Of course you could offer to let HER punish you the same way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Tell her it will be rough but you will endure her being NICE to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Just so she does not get so frustrated.

She is struggling Aussie and you can tell life is not much fun for her. When someone being nice to you hurts, you know things are really messed up. She knows, but she doesn't know what to do.

She expected your rejection. She expected your anger. She expected that you would leave. She did NOT expect that you would give her another chance or that you would ACTIVELY try to rebuild the marriage. She doesn't know how to handle this. I am guessing it will take your MC a session or so to teach her.

Just keep doing your best. Your efforts are very clearly noticed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL

so what you are saying in a very nice way is for me to keep my big mouth shut when I want to open it to change feet?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh now I understand, IT IS ALL MY FAULT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> thats makes its so much clearer now...LOL

I guess the hypno therapy for the PTSD must be working..I can actually see the humour in it all, sad as it is. Must be a good sign

Well I had better make my princess her lunch for tomorrow.....yes I sill make it for my to kids incl 17 yr old young woman if you wondered...smoked salmon & capers with bit of cream cheese, drizzle of lime juice....well didn't I tell you she was my princess?????

Aussie,

Now you have it. Just repeat the mantra: "It is all my fault. It is all my fault..." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It will help you understand what you are hearing. Seriously, you can see the guilt, keep being nice to her.

Now you know why Harley is big on plan A and then going to plan B to preserve love. RECOVERY takes ALL YOU GOT to get through it. It is NOT the easy part of this by any means.

Take care of your Princess. The sandwich sounds good to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hang in there, and I am glad you can smile about this, it is really the only choice other than just crying your eyes out. Maybe the therapy did help. I hope so.

God Bless,

JL

Aussie - You are doing very well. Your wife is probably extremely sad. Just keep being the leader in this recovery thing. I know, doesn't seem right, but you must lead her through this, even if she is kicking and screaming.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A near miss like that brings it all into perspective.
Think it must of done something for her as well, we all had a great Fathers Day today.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeppers, something like this tends to cut right through the fogbank.

As to your wife's comments Aussie, just one word.

"Smothering."

It's a feeling that comes from "trying too hard" and from a "need" to be around and close to her. Another way to look at is, "too much of a 'good thing'". It took me several reminders from my wife about this feeling of "smothering" before it sunk in and I could "back off" a little.

btw, your counselor seems to be doing a very good job.

God bless.

Another day and much the same at home though she seems friendlier at work. I dont often go to lunch etc but today she rang me up at 1300 to 'just see how I am'....???? so told her ok and would be nice to have a lunch with her.
She replied that would be great. So bit more friendly today overall.
My guess is if I keep conversation away from US then it will be ok.
Made a lunch date for Thursday at 1200 for 2 hours, both cleared it with our sections for phone coverage so we should have a long hopefully peaceful lunch just getting used to one another again. MC says its a good idea to sort of slowly relearn each other as we are now & sounds logical to me.

You know, though she still INSISTS that our M & that I were not an issue, I have to wonder if my PTSD is to blame for setting up the conditions.
Now I dont know if any of you have ever dealt with someone with severe PTSD but it is a frightening thing to have to do.

For many months I had only 3 hours sleep a night with episodes of reliving moments & experiences that I would not wish even on that piece of Sh*t OM. A number of nights I have wondered the house, yards reliving these things. Its very unnerving for someone who can only watch. The worst time was being awoken by my daughter while half asleep during one of these living dreams and smashing my cup & taking a swing at her face.....obviously I wasn't seeing my daughter. Thats when you start getting desperate and think it would be a relief to drive off a cliff or something. But most of us dont, we stick to the mental exercises they give you ........drugs didn't give to much relief for a long while, but for me it started to fade quickly after that until recently.

It is very difficult to allow yourself to be touched by anyone, kids, family, friends and especially my wife. I mean you actually get a physical reaction to it from minor stiffing of your whole body to actually puking. You have to 'unlearn' your body to react to being touched.
Still working on that one. Any kids are ok, brother ok, female relatives incl my wife...still not good, but getting very good at hiding it from them so they dont feel uneasy.

Have to see how this hypno therapy goes on that score over the next few weeks. Seems to be helping a lot already.

Well I have to think its a good trend that our discussions at home, what there are of them, on everything but us, dont turn into arguments or the iceberg treatment.
She seems quite willing to discuss school, holidays, renovations, the dog, cat or birds, as long as I NEVER EVER cross the Rubicon and talk about our relationship or her affair.
I think as long as she can pretend these talks happen in that magic place called the 'MC office", then she can ignore it. But I think its getting to her anyway.
So no pushing, following the MC guidelines, steering clear of the trigger subjects, caring, sharing and supporting her gently but consistently.
One nice little thing this morning I almost forgot it was so simple. Got out of the car at work, helped get her stuff out, and opened the door for her - which I mostly have always done - without thinking took her hand and gave it squeeze and got one back as she walked off to her office AND didn't even feel revulsion over being touched.
So wary but hopeful, and at times bloody impatient with it all.

Aussie,

I am glad that things are going better. Your MC seems to have good advice. Start to learn how to live again, and work with the MC on the other issues.

As for your PTSD, I have read that people that have endured a partners affair seem to have similar symptoms and they refer to it as PTSD. I don't know if it truely is that, but I would not be surprised that what you are going through is not triggering things. So have some patience with yourself and keep working on this.

You don't see this but "baby steps" are clearly being taken. There is progress so hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Hey everyone

have I picked the following up right from my FWW....

I get these little comments every now & then that seem to mean that SHE, who had the affair thankyou very much, is doubtful of trusting me.

Does she really think I'm going to suddenly run of to have some grubby revenge affair or is she just talking a type of 'fog' reversal logic stuff.

I mean the recurring thing I hear is something like' mutter mutter bet you wont be holding back at the work sundowners anymore will you etc etc

A few times where I have picked it up in time I have quietly said no we will go together if we decide to go....that just gets me a glare. But thats ok..I know, I know...its all my fault...right?

aussie -

You are starting to make progress by realizing that it is all your fault.

We used to have a former WW thread here. I wish you could have read it. The women there were very ashamed by their behavior.

Part of the problem could have been the PTSD. God knows there are enough men going through that right now. But whatever the cause, you have to let her know that you are committed to loving her, and restoring the marriage.

This stuff takes time, and you need to be the leader. I know that doesn't seem fair, but that is the way it is. So hang in there and lead her back to the marriage.

So lunch today

a long casual tasty to lunch by ourselves for the first time in God knows how long.

We talked about heaps of things, especially the past family things, laughter was good, I think we both forgot the A for a while. Kids, we even talked without pain but with whistful remorse of our little girl who died so many years ago only a few days old very prem.
parties holidays silly stupid things we havew done.....nice few hours.

Steered away from the forbidden subjects of our M, her A, the war....

So it was good though nearly blew the whole thing. Been not well at all last 2 days and this morning started to cough up blood and have that damn burning just under last left rib.... bloody wound is bleeding again just doesnt seem to heal well. Anyway started coughing just before we left and my tissues I had over my mouth went bit red..she went off at me for not going to the Vets hopsital today & nearly wrecked her good mood.

But instead I got the old determined look she puts on when she has decided something come hell or high water. SO we walked back to work while I was coughing, she casting little side looks at me like I was porcelin or something for Gods sake..I mean look I've had more blood from a banged nose for goodness sake. It has happened before it will happen again until it finally gets better.

Oh well, I did not say anything about it, I suppose it shows she does care & doesn't like to see me even mildly off colour.

As she walked off down the corridor after walking ME back to my office, I couldn't help but admire the view as she swayed off down to the lift. Well she always has been good looking cant deny that.

Just a little something.
LET your wife worry about you, even about the things you may think are not a problem.
Not only that, but let her know you appreciate her worry. Her concern for you may be one of the ways she expresses love. It's not a good thing to brush that off.

thanks TTSi

I think I have a tendency to brush off concern about this sort of thing, I guess it is related to the war issues thing, I dont like talking or referring to it in normal circumstances.

But I should have known nothing stops her when she has made up her mind on something of this nature.
So we are driving to work, me looking like death warmed up due to coughing all night. So I ask as we pass our workplace hwere are we going? She says I've spoken to your Director and drove me to the hopsital. I didn't get angry or even scowl at her, I was amused though.
Spent the morning having tubes down my throat to make sure it was nothing else...thats not fun guys. Anyway besides coughing all is ok its just a nuisance.

So I can live with her wanting to be caring, as long as it lasts, right now she seems to need to do this so I'm letting her.

Did you know that coping with her being nice can be as stessful as when she is being a cow? Well almost as bad.
Lets hope the the weekend is peaceful..we have MC tomorrow morning

Goodness, that was a very caring thing for your wife to do.

I really hope you have a great weekend. You deserve some happiness and peace.

I have a feeling that things are going to turn out well for you and your wife.

PTSD is very treatable. Where I work they say "It's a normal reaction to an abnormal situation".

Aussie2......how about printing out the Emotional Needs Questionaire, and maybe leave it on the coffe table or something like that.

She may surprise you.

A/C0810

The MC on Saturday morning was as I expected a bit awkward for both of us. The weekdays are mostly ok with us skirting the issue of the A and getting on with other day to day realities without any problems.
I guess it also allows us to work as a team again on the non A issues.

The image thing, the movie that I keep playing of her and the OM is something causing me a lot of difficulty . We discussed this a lot at the mc and talked about how to overcome the replay, but nothing really seems to be that convincing to me.
The MC suggested that since I am having problems getting past the movies themselves what about looking at controlling the triggers?
That sounds ok but I mean there are lots I think. One of the worse are her work clothes and some good dresses she wore for the sundowner where they had it off.
This one is very hard for me to accept. We had a second honeymoon some years ago & went to Singapore for 3 weeks. While there I bought her a really sexy red silk dress - a formal dress - hand made for her, she wore this on 3 occasions to that [censored].
See the other ‘party time’ clothes she wore to work were just casual clothes no special meaning nothing, she could throw them out, burn them, give them away whatever didn’t care, just didn’t want to see them anymore.
What really gets me about it is that this was a special present just for her from me, though cost is not really an issue I did pay more for that damn dress than the holiday! It was what she wanted so I got it for her. I got for her because I felt she was worth more than a million dresses like that and that it made her happy to have something so different and so special. Then she wore it for him. Thinking about it does get me upset and angry, I’m not sure I’m making any sense here but to me the dress wasn’t ‘just a dress’ it was a symbol, a special gift given & accepted with love. I mean how would she like it if I gave my wedding rings to a 20 yr old bimbo so I could bonk her silly.
Now its just a rag with a ‘Cheap’ tag on it, and of course the first thing that comes to mind is to throw it away, give it away…but that again seems she is just adding insult to injury….I know it sounds so stupid & contradictory .
So we discussed this and the more I said the more it seemed as if she was sinking lower and lower into the chair, I wasn’t taking any pleasure in this, it was hard to say and it hurt. But it was one thing we needed to face I suppose.
.
I know this trigger is dumb, but every time I see the damn thing I want to puke now. I feel she gave away a part of our past in addition to herself.
So MC asked what did WE want to do about it……….. Well we don’t know yet. She folded it up and packed it when we got home. She said she doesn’t want to throw it away, she just didn’t think about how it would be for me.
It is the little things like this that now seem harder to accept than the A itself. At least to me. To me it seems like a personal attack on me.
I do think we are right to discuss a lot of this with the MC, otherwise I’m sure we’d tear each other to shreds and apart.

Aussie -

I'm sure the dress thing is very painful to you. You look at it as something special that you got for her. But she probably just felt good wearing it.

Gosh, I wish she would post here. She must feel awful. Throwing the dress away won't solve the problem, because what is done, is done.

Being a woman, I don't know how men get through this. The mind has a tendancy to keep going over the same old thoughts. When I start thinking of unpleasant things, I tell my mind "stop". Then I think of something else. After awhile, it seems to work.

I see that you are catching on to the MB program and giving newcomers very good advice. I think that is good, because usually folks who are in so much pain have a hard time reaching out to help others.

Also you are getting great advice from JL who is a physicist, but should be a psychiatrist. So hang in there and you will get through this.

believer

from the little she has said I understand she posted to a forum somwhere to ask about telling me and was roundly dumped on. I dont know where it was she is very reluctant to talk about it.
Its taken a lot to find this out.

I think she may browse here a bit but I've never seen a post.

I am pretty good you know when there are no triggers to set me off. I dont think about it all day or night, there are times of course, I'm not superman, but it doesn't run my life, I won't let it.

I can even post about the movies in my head & no problems they dont start, but some little thing will come up and bang! off they start. Oh well I guess we will work it through.

I meant to ask you believer how you went with your H over the separation agreement?
I hope it was resolved especially that nonsense with the car!

Aussie -

It was probably here that she posted. WW's are dumped on quite a bit. I still email one that was driven off the board, and she is still working the program, and doing well. I think a better place for her to post is saveyourmarriagecentral, where there is a private board for WS's.

My WH and I have still not come to an agreement on the financial things. He calls about every 10 days to say he is sorry, blah, blah, blah.

Hi aussie2,

I don't think I have posted to you before but I just wanted to say that I really understand how you feel about your WW's red dress and triggers.In a way,the dress is an analogy to your marriage.She soiled the marriage,tainted and ruined it,and so was the dress.The personal and deeply emotional and meaningful aspects of both were destroyed.They were supposed to be secret and private between only the two of you.The homewrecking OM received benefits of both unduly.

I took a few items myself and destroyed them because even though they were special to me and my WH before the A,they were painful reminders of what he exchanged for the homewrecking trash.Like my Wedding cake top: I put it in the garbage disposal,and a picture my WH made for me in college of the two of us which always meant so much to me: I smashed it to pieces.It no longer had any meaning to me as sad as I was to get rid of it.It was a reminder of what was lost.Many other reminders/triggers are safely packed away or thrown away.

The terrible dichotomy is that our WS's are the only ones that can truly mend our broken hearts but many instead choose to keep stomping on them like my WH.

Anyway,I understand your anger.I still have a bit myself being almost a year after DDay.

O