I'm all admiration for your attitude. Is it just because you face the possibility of death all the time in your job?

You really sound like you know what you want. I really hope it all goes well for you. Have you told your W yet about your mate?

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
You're right, no one can say what he felt
and experienced to make him do what he did.
I know it's not really any kind of consolation,
but if your friend would have kicked you in your
[censored] and told you to save your marriage, then you honor him by doing exactly that.

I guess it is smur you dont dwell just accept.

Well I did tell my w today and it made her very upset, she liked Mick, he was always around here expecially on holiday periods like Chistmas & Easter but she too was not that surprised.

But she was not happy I didn't tell her, not happy at all.
Id like to think it was about wanting her to have fun, but matbe there was also a bit of the trust issue there as well

aussie -

I would like you to read Pep's thread on General Questions, called "What A Woman Needs" or something like that. It is actually about men, and made me think so much about you.

believer

the warrior who does what he wants..Mmmmm yep

(maybe a bit too much you think??)

does that mean I CAN hunt that [censored] down with my service knife & see if I can skin him alive?
I was given a good hint by a Afghan that if you use salt water under the cuts the skin ...well maybe I better just THINK about it instead,,SIGH ..lol

Hmmm. I think Aussie's on the right track here...

So, tell me a little about this salt water trick.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


j/k... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

lol TTSi

I know its not only his fault but as I dont like him - OM - its ok to think about these things <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
The brine water or salt water thing is VERY old apparantly, Old tribesman told me in explicit detail how it works, made me think it was not so old to him.

anyway TTSi how are things with you? anymore on your W & your sit?

Aussie - I think you need to change the title of your thread to "Soldiers of Fortune School", or "50 Ways to Eliminate OM", something more appropriate.

my wife has these times of being, well, nasty at times. This has only happened since the A and I dont care what she says later, I still think its the fog withdrawal. I do believe she is telling the truth when she says she had to get drunk to have sex with the OM, BUT I also think she is denying to herself & me that she was also emotionally attracted to the [censored] in the first place. Maybe she is not even aware of why, but I reckon I'm right.
She is still pretty defensive about the issue when I want to discuss it says I'm just complicating the whole thing because I really dont want to get over it.
This morning was a classic repeat of this.

She actually brought the subject up while driving to work. She said she found it hard to accept she had done the deed with the OM. I said I think you under estimated the attraction you must of had to him in the first place and it took you by surprise the first time.
She went really sh*ty and snarled at me that she DIDN"T have any emotional attraction and I was an idiot to not get that by now.

When shes like this you know what, I dont like her very much, I love her heaps but that just gives me the sh*ts.

So I bit my tongue, & let that go through to the keeper thinking 'B*TCH'.
But I did smile nicely and said a pleasant see you later. Though I did feel like saying get stuffed.

Seems she wants to make statements and I'm not to question them except at the MC. well I suppose thats better than her saying nothing at all...isn't it?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Do you think I should say anything or leave it for the mc? I sort of feel she is trying to get her thoughts together over what happened but does she have to attack me all the damn time?

Of course a friend of ours said to me. 'well dear who else CAN she attack right now, I'm guessing she feels pretty low and miserable at failing you, herself and the family and its out of her control now'.
Maybe, but she is still hard to like when she is like that!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ September 28, 2004, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: aussie2 ]</small>

yes,
sounds to me like she's battling with herself. It must be pretty hard if she takes that out on you.

She's probably really annoyed with herself for what she did. I agree with you that its not likely that there was NO emotional attachment. But maybe she can't bear to think about the way she was back then. I'm guessing that this is something that she needs to resolve with an IC. I think you asking her about it is probably only going to provoke her defenses.

Yep, I'd agree with Smur here.
I think its just things she is trying to get out.
You know, when you have a lot of emotions behind words, how easy it is to snap back at any reply someone makes to you.
I wouldn't attack back at all. What good would it do? Ya, it may make you feel better temporarily, but your W is going to feel worse right away, and later on you're going to feel worse too. I don't know if I would necessarily apologize to her for what you say back, but I would try to begin a reply with a "I feel like this..." then say your reply.
I think she would be more apt to not attack you for your feelings, and if she does, ask her why she's attacking you for your feelings.... That would at least make her think about it before continuing attacking, and she'd probably create less resentment for her in you. Win Win.

As for me, nothing has really changed lately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Have another C session with Dr. Harley tommorow.
I put together a letter for OM and his parents revealing everything that has gone on. Will be talking to SH tommorow about it. I haven't posted it, as I think it contains too many details that I don't want anywhere on the web, but if you'd like to take a read of it, let me know your email address and I'll send it to ya.

Believer

LMAO on your comment. think there could be a good sideline there heh,heh...lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


smur & TTSi
I suppose you are right, I'll listen more and say nothing I know she will bite at. I'll leave the observations to the mc sessions same as with the questions, but its hard not to ask when they occur to you or something is bugging you.
Ok I'll try but sometimes it seems lately I open my mouth to change feet.

TTSi my email is mymates@myway.com

Aussie2---Your wife is feeling exactly like I am feeling, I am sure of that!!! My husband likes you, likes to say ugly things about the OM. Always asking questions,never ending curiosity. Sometimes I feel like I cannot deal with "it" anymore.
I wish that the subject of the A did not come up everyday!!! There are other things to talk about.
We (your wife and I) have lots of mixed emotions within us, and we dont need a nagging husband constantly making us feel worst! We already feel horrible enough.
My husband says that he has forgivven me, but been that way it seems like he really hasn't!
He wants me to give him details, but sometimes he seems shocked with them!!! He wants to know, but at the same time he is scared of what will come out of my mouth! You know the old saying "curiosity killed the cat" Is better sometimes not to know so much. Just accept that the affair took place, and try to put it behind, if you are really forgiving her!
Myrta! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Yeah, Aussie and I feel the same way and so do most BHs.

We don’t want to be in darkness, we rather know daylight. We rather have RADICAL HONESTY than “lets sweep this under the rug”.

We want to know WHAT ARE WE FORGIVING.

We don’t want to have resentment years from now because we never dealt with the affair properly.

We want to avoid depression in the future. Depression that is often the end result of the inability to deal with an issue and to fully discharge grief at the appropriate time.

We also want a wife who has forgiven herself to such extent that she is willing to discuss her actions without having to put up a wall for defense. Very much like an ex-drug addict who freely talks about his situation and tries to help others.

And lastly we need to understand! We are choosing to stay with women who replaced us as men and we need to know why this is the right thing to do.

Myrta-----PLEASA!!!! Re-read the posts by JL

CIAO!

Hi Mytra

yes you are right, I do ask too much at the wrong place & time, but those are the times I seem to need to know.

I agree that you & my w need to feel safe to ans those questions but it seems that we guys cannot rest until we know & know & know.

I try to say nothing but it comes out too often and when she defends the low down SOB then I get worse.

To us Myrta the OM is the lowest thing on earth, what would you feel towards another woman if the situations were reversed??? the same way I would guess.
So you see we HATE the SOB's and yes I will keep on saying that because truthfully it helps me cope with the situation.

The details do make us sick, at least they do when I hear them, but I need to know the worse so like Stan says, it won't come up and surprise me someday and throw me and us back into crisis.
I dont want to ever feel this again, I'd just leave.
Yes your comment on the old saying "curiosity killed the cat" hit home but even so, no how much it hurts to hear it my own feeling is that no matter how bad it is, better I know now then latter.

Have I forgiven my wife? . I'm thinking . hard .

I think so, if not fully then at least most of everything & I'm working on it all the time I can..........but its damn hard.
I'm still not sure of everything or if I can fully accept the affair, but I guess I'll swallow whatever is left & let it go if I find Im holding onto it.

I dont want to end up some bitter miserable husband. Its got to either be in full or not at all. And I have for most slready so I'm in for the long haul.

Stanley


Yes I sgree, all of it, even the questions, you have it right on the money how it eats way at us
knowing I'm doing to much of it, but I'm trying to settle that down and leave it so its not every day.

I think it may help you to to leave it for a day or so as well. I suppose our wives do need a bit of space but I think the best idea is both agree to a time and place to discuss.

I know it may not always be adhered to, well I dont I admit, but I try and she can see that and talks a bit due to that.
But give it a try Stan, might surprise you how well it works and avoid the arguments

But I know this Stan, God NEVER NEVER AGAIN thats all I'm saying.
Even a hello to the SOB & I'm out of here. I cant accept anything else & one boundary that I will not change.

Hey Aussie and Stanley,

even though I am a FWW I actually agree with you more than with Myrta here. I think its so important to healing to have all of your questions answered honestly and completely. Within a week of Dday, H asked me for every detail and I told him - it was hell, I felt like the lowest peace of s**t, and I also thought at the time that he would feel better not knowing, BUT I am now very glad that we got that out of the way early. I am sure he would still be asking me today if we hadn't been through that.
Just a thought - maybe what might make the difference is the manner of asking - if you could, say, organise a time for an hour once a week when you ask anything and you get full, honest and complete answers with no LBing, and at all other times you promise not to bring up the subject at all. Maybe that could be a method?

Aussie, did you get my email? Dunno if it got spam-canned or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do try that smur by limiting the questions to mc sessions but its hard when you want ans to questions that just occur to you.

But I'm trying to keep to it.

I'm guessing the left over OM attraction makes it hard to hear the questions when I ask a question about the affair and include 'that SOB or [censored] etc ect.
You know, reading Myrta's posts & seeing how my wife reacts, I sometimes think that what we are calling the residual/ remaining fog is more a denial of them realising that they made such bad choices with such inappropriate people.

Think there is anything to that smur?


WELL

I have had enough of this right now.

Daughter turned 18 today, she is out right now with 6 friends drinking champaign at the Perth International Casino. One of the girls get married tomorrow so its a girls night with the brides to be mom looking after the lot of them......they are staying at the Casino hotel so lets hope no sore heads tomorrow......lol ,,,God was I EVER that young??????

My Princess has been going out with a nice young bloke for once, unfortunately he's a Army officer trainee. Hope it does not develop into anything too serious with this damn war going on.
Besides, I dont trust young men with my daughter, espcially young army men. ahem

I'll have to start cleaning my guns every time she gets picked up from home, just coincidental of course...........lol

Aussie:

If it helps----- Myrta says she has to defend the OM because she is defending herself. If she admitted the OM is a crappy dishonest SOB she would feel much worse about what she did. I have learned to accept that, but it is so hard not to point out the obvious flaws of the OM!

My wife seems to talk in spurts and then shuts down for a few days. Not sure why is that. However, it all goes back to the above. It is painful to their egos to talk about such unsavory circumstances. OTOH, I keep hammering away at the OM in many of my posts, I cannot help myself!

Thats it Stan

exactly what I was thinking, not so much the OM perse but THEIR choices being put under the glass.

Trouble is, at times ALL I see is my W defending the OM even in a distant way and it drives me crazy that she cant see it bugs me big time.
It feels to me that she is really saying at these times - even if she isnt - the OM was better but I back with you anyway......gee thanks. NOT

Well I said I'm not going to go around in circles tonight but I do have so much on my mind.

One is a huge thing, the other less so.

First, I took a big jump and have asked for Medical Board hearing to evalute my fitness. Expect to hear of that over next month or two.

Second........

well I hesitate to discuss it but I have always got good commonsense here so here goes..

Without going into heaps of details, before I knew of the affair & things I learned that a girlfriend I had before I was going out with my wife, had a child. Mine apparently.

Never knew until he was over 18, an adult, she lives in another state and married quite happily, quite well off, had a few more kids, no issues no problems, & didn't want to have me in their lives.
Which is fair enough being that we went out for only 2 months, parted friends, & she met the bloke who married her right after and they sailed off into the sunset.
I have no idea if this young man even knows and I have no intention of interfering unless asked to,
BUT

this total honesty thing that everyone says has to happen. Well made me think about this recently a lot.
Do I tell my wife what I have been told, and if I do, when?

I sort of feel we need to get this affair issue well & truly on the road to recovery before I say anything. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but I feel if I told her now she would interpret it as me getting back at her if you see what I MEAN.

Now there are no legal implications or anything on me or my estate when I kick the bucket, kids and wife are completely safe as the child was legally adopted upon birth by her husband and had his name on the birth certificate.

So, what do you advise everyone?