Last month, I discovered my W was have an EA.
It actually ended the day I discovered it on it's
own. OM fell in love with someone else.

After much sole-searching I decided to forgive
her. I asked if there had ever been anyone
else and she denied it.

Since out "come To Jesus Talk" (lawyer on speed
dial) Things have been great between us.
Not one fight, lots of hugging and kissing,and
some sex.

The problem is my gut feeling said something
still was not right. It is almost too-good-to-be-true.

2 days ago she left her email logged in on my
computer and took a nap. I discover saved
emails over the last 3 years from 5 different men
that were inapproiate at best and tended to point
more to an actual PA.

One was a break up letter that made it pretty
obvious they were more then friends.

I have an admin account on her computer and
decided to search for things she wrote mentioning
hubby or husband. I discovered that she
had been keeping a word document diary detailing
all of the events. She was under orders from
her master. I learned in detail of several
affairs including one with a married man that
had lasted YEARS.

I am shocked that I really was so blind not to
see what has been going on since at least 2001.

The only hope for us is for me to put this in
the past and start over. I can not dwell on this.

I left the barn door open (inattentive).

Well I made it very clear to her that I would
not tolerate anything outside on our marriage
again when I found out about the EA.

I gave her the "I forgive everything you did"
get out a jail free card.

I am really torn on what to do here. It is
clear that she still was not honest when I asked
her point blank about some odd times in the
past. NOW I KNOW WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON.

My question is do I confront her about everything
I know now and risk ruining what has been very
nice over the last month.

Do I honor my forgiveness, and never tell her what
I really know about the past few years?

If I do not tell her, I can continue to watch
her and make sure she never wanders again.

Part of me wants to be angry and confront her
and see just how many of the affairs she would
own up to. But my heart knows that no good
would come of it.

Part of me worries that If I don't confront her
with everything I know, I will give her the
impression that she got away with it and will be
more likely to do it again.

I want to be with her and keep the family together
but I am deeply hurt that she had betrayed my
trust repeatedly over the years.

I know from her diaries that many times she lied
when she said she was going out with "GIRL" friends.

I want to be able to trust her but now I will
have to worry if she told me the truth when she
does. I don't want to be a control freak.

I really want to confront her. I want to get it
all out on the table before I decide to move on. I
can't take new information popping up all the time

I know, it is my fault, I should not have snooped
but ignorance is not really bliss.

If I have paid more attention in the past,
maybe most of this would not have happened.

I am really torn on what to do now. Part of
me is so angry that I want to say "What the F***
makes her so spacial that she deserves my
forgiveness"

The truth is I care for my children. I want them
to have a complete family.

My W and I seem to be on the road to recovery.

Do I let this go and remain vigilant or
do I confront this now?

Gemini (of two minds on this one)

Joker,

First, take and copy all of the emails and her journal so that you have a copy of it. Do it NOW.

Next, it is time you got out of denial. Your W did not do this with multiple men because of what you did or did not do. Face if one man was enough for her, then while she may have betrayed you for another man, it does NOT explain the multiple men and her MASTER.

The basic primis of this site is "radical honesty". That applies to you and your W. You need to tell her what you know if my opinion.

You forgave her for what you knew, but you did NOT forgive her for what she lied about and you did NOT know.

Frankly, Joker, you and she have marriage problems, but from what you are telling me she has some deep issues that need to be addressed OR you will NOT have a marriage no matter how much you desire one.

I think you need to see the help of a pro-marriage counselor,just forgiving her will NOT solve this problem. Further, I would like to encourage you to read the articles here, and read the book Surviving an Affair by Harley. But, get counseling, and confront her with what you found. It is time this marriage got a does of honesty.

I know you want this to be over. I know you want to forgive her. I know you want your family. But, I also know there are NO shortcuts to recovery and you are trying to take one by saying "Oh well I forgave her for one why not all of them" Ultimately that may be and is probably what you need, but there are some serious issues to address before you get to this point.

Your W is an accomplished liar and she is a serial cheater, and she apparently likes to be dominated. These are things that forgiveness will NOT address.

So please read up, please find a counselor, and please confront her with what you have found. I don't mean yell and scream. I mean tell her what you found and then LISTEN to her. Listen to what she says and what she does NOT say. Keep the information filed somewhere safe. YOu may need to refer to it in the very near future.

Good luck and God Bless,

JL

I agree with you. The problem is much more
serious then I thought.

I want us to get counseling but right now she
is not in favor of it. Mostly because of the
money issues right not (just spent $2,000
on car repair.)

I think you are right, This will talk outside
help to truely resolve. I have no one to talk
to (no friends and I don't want to involve my
family at this time)

I have been making copies of everything I have
found, docs, email and message posts.

Is now the right to confront her or should
I wait and do it in counseling?

Joker,,

First of all you are doubting all of these feelings you have. Don't! I could have duplicted your post upon uncovering all of my wifes lies.

As far as confronting,,, you will do that I promise you. It is going to eat at you like crazy.

It may take an argument or something for you to blurt it out but it will happen sooner or later.

So to answer your question yes you will have to confront her with your latest findings.

Its been over four months and I am still discovering my wifes lies,,,just like you I do not know why I had to dig for more hurt but I did. My wife has allways insisted there was no talk of I love you from either party. Well, I found some text messages she saved in her cell phone of them professing thier love for one another. Damn it cut like a knife. First thing I did was throw it up on my wife to show the proof of her lies. The only thing she could say was why did you have to look in that phone its in the past,, let it go. Sucks huh?

A more important thing you stated is the fact of your love for your children.
When I was torn between divorcing or staying my counselor strongly advised me to look back at my marriage and think of all the reasons I had for staying. If none of these reasons had to do with my wife and only my wife then he sugested I pack my bags. Dont marry the children he said,, dont marry the assets or property. You have to marry the woman and only the woman.

You are also in rage because you have discovered repeatitive offenses,,, well once again I am right with you. 5 yrs ago I caught my wife red handed in bed with another man, we separated for 5 months but reestablished contact and I forgave her. The first time I was devastated and cried like a baby. She cried like a baby and swore how sorry she was and it would never happen again. % yrs later she decided a one night stand would not do it,, she got involved in a serios affair with another man. So here we go again down that paved road of pain and hurt. I tell ya I think I am getting used to this.
What I am trying to instill upon you is that your situation is not uncommon. I guess I can say I am hoplessly in love with my wife. She tears the trust up,,, I rebuild it then she tears it up again.
Despite all of this crap I still cannot say I do not love her and wish somehow we could have a healthy marriage. Is she exploiting my love? Probably so but with every offense she does take some irreplaceable love from me. I think for me to feel like I can divorce her I have to fully feel I do not love her anymore. Believe it or not
There are men who have it worse than we do.

Your brain cannot override your heart. All of these feelings and suspicions you have will have to be laid to rest.

Eric,

I know that there are people worse off then me.

Am I staying just for the children? NO
I honestly still love her depite what she has done.

I love her enough for forgive the one thing
I also thought would be unforgivable.

My problem is, I am not sure that love is returned.

Today was the first time in as long as I can
remember that she said she love me. Part
of me was excited and the other part said to
myself "sure she does"

I have not caught her in the act but she
did describe everything in great detail
in the documents.

Like you said, It is gonna come up sooner or later. We seem to be in a second honeymoon.
Not a single unkind word in over a month.
My I know I have a whole asenal of weapons
to use. I don't want revenge.

I want understanding. I want an appology
Some tears would be nice to.

What I got was an email

exerpt

The thing I keep coming back to - throughout our entire
relationship, really - is that we never "make up" after a
fight. We just let things go. There's no "I'm sorry"
followed by hot make-up $ex. There's no "closure" to
disagreements, so I think a lot of hard feelings just build
up even when we *think* things are resolved - when I suspect
that for one or the other of us - or perhaps both of us -
they're not resolved.

So .... I guess the bottom line is, I'm sorry. For
everything. And I realize that's not going to fix things,
but I hope you can somehow find it in your heart to forgive
me and to work with me on making things better between us
rather than trying to destroy the life we've worked so hard
to create.

I know I need to confront her but I am really
wanting to see if she gets any more emails
from them

How do I confront her and explain reading her
email and diary.

What should I tell her?

Joker,

Tell her the truth, and tell her you are crushed by what you now know. Don't accuse her, just present her with what you found out, and how you feel about it. It is hers to address really.

That is why disclosure is best. If you sit on this, it will begin to fester, and if it eats at you too much, when you do disclose,it will be followed by a mushroom cloud and about 20 kT of explosive. Your marrige does NOT need this.

Disclose what you know and tell how you feel about it. Don't yell, don't berate, don't make accusations, just simply tell her. Put this in her court and then ask what else you need to know about her.

Then just sit there and let her explain. If she explodes or accuses you of snooping, explain how you found her email, and suggest that it appears you needed to snoop.

Let me offer you something off the wall to consider. How many times does your W leave her email open? I am betting rarely especially during all of this. How many times? I think she wanted/wants you to catch her. I am thinking she cannot bring herself to tell you this, but she knows you need to know it in order for the marriage to heal. I am not sure she did this consciously, but it almost seems as if she wanted to be caught.

Hence you need to bring this up now, in order to address it and decide where each of you want to proceed. If she does the angry act "how could you snoop on me?" Look at her and say "you wanted to get caught didn't you?" I suspect that will cause her to stop and think.

Disclose today and start the process.

God Bless,

JL

Pray for me.

I plan to discuss what I know with her TONIGHT.

The her future actions do not concern
me as much as her past actions right now.

There is enough there for me to end this marriage.

I do not want that.

I am going to ask her to tell me about all
the affairs she has had during our marriage.

I will not reveal what I know but if she
has trouble remembering, I have a list of
names.

I will let her know how I feel and try to
to be reactive. I seek only understanding
so I do have any surprizes.

I also plan to ask if she is willing to go
to counseling and ask her to pick one.
She know the ends and outs of the insurance
anyway.

I plan to detail what I need going forward
and see if she is willing to try a meet those
needs.

The cant be no future for us, if we can not
address the core of this problem. It is not
anything to do with me. It is that I was
her first and only serious relationship.

She longs for the excitement of new relationships

I think it will take a third part to help
her understand what she risk giving up
and to help her control her urges.

I still have not talked to her.

She fell asleep before I could get our
youngest son asleep.

I layed awake most of the night (5 hours) trying
to firgure out exactly what I will say.

I hope she does not see me this morning
before I leave for work. My eyes are
completely bloodshot and swollen.

I will discuss it tonight.

Pray for Me

Joker,,,

I dont want to give you the impression that your wifes actions are not forgiveable.

Its just not that easy to forgive when you have so many unanswered questions. I hope by the time you have read this you have sat down with her and she has at least given you the disclosure of her affairs.
Its all about you deciding what reasons you can live with. What I mean by that is understanding why,,, even if its not truly why.
Any since of reason you can gain from books, counselors, web sites ,,, whatever.

I really wish there was some kind of guideline that mapped out the exact motives and thoughts of a WW. Its just that every person is different, and not allways are the motives the same for each WW.

I mean we can read the possibilities and then see if they apply to what was happening in our marriage. Then we can determine if we believe that particular reason or should I say "break down" was the sole motivator in our wifes actions.

Joker - Has she shown any remorse for the actual A's? Or is she just remoreful in getting caught?

I am M to a serial cheat - it's tough - they show very little remorese - they feel entitled.

She must come clean and understand that she has to want to change how she's been acting. She needs to put YOU and YOUR M first. Think before acting..

My WH showed little remorse, won't do theraphy, won't admit..It's tough to get the truth from them when years have been built on lies and deceit. Because he won't admit, etc. I know he can never CHANGE..He too enjoys the newness of relationships. He cannot be fulfilled by 1 women - he must play the game. No matter the consequences - he knows that we will most likely end up D - but he doesn't seem to care. By them not understanding and respecting us they can't acknowledge the pain or accept any blame for it.

I went thru alot of the rollercoaster - days, months getting along, acting the part of the DH - only to find more evidence that he just learnt to hid it all better. I thought maybe he wanted to get caught so I would be a better wife - but now I think he wanted to get caught so I would leave him - I don't think he has the B@@@@ to leave me.

I truly pray that you get a M - one that works for both you and she puts and keeps the past in the past.

Hugs....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ITHURTS:
<strong> Joker - Has she shown any remorse for the actual A's? Or is she just remoreful in getting caught?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She does not know yet that I know about alot
more affairs then the EA I had discovered.

For that one, she never really appologized
or showed remorse. Other then she has been
very kind and loving since then.

I am not sure how she will react when the truth
comes out. I plan to give her a chance to
tell me the truth about how many affairs she
has really had. I will let her know I know
it was more then one. I will see if she
covers the ones I know about. If not, I will
ask her directly about each one.

If I have to, I could print out each letter
detailing each affair to help her remember <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I need to know timelines and what she got out
of each affair. I do not need to know the details
I have read enough of that.

I need her to come face to face with everything
she has done and the devestation to me and our
marriage. Unlike your husband, I think she will
be remorseful.

I plan to come to her in a loving way and explain
to her I need to know all the truth. I don't
want to have to spy on her every day. I don't
want to have to question where she is really
going when she spends 6 hours at walmart shopping
or out with friends.

To be honest I can't believe I am willing to
try forgiving her at all. Infidelity was
the one thing I told myself I would never forgive.
Now I am faced with multiple acts.

Besides the truth, I really need to know where
I stand in her life. It is clear I was not
important when she was with the others.
I really don't want to continue if I am the
only one that wants to. It would be
so much easier to give up and go find someone
who wants to be with me.

Divorce is the easy way out of this. But I feel
I have to earn a Divorce. I have to explore
every option to save our marriage. If in the end
it can not be save at least I will know there
was nothing I could do but didn't. I could
get closure from that.

One way or another, her reality check is coming
tonight.

I was thinking about the Lord's Prayer in church
on Sunday. I now truly know what it means
to be called to "forgive those who have
tresspassed against you"

I pray for the strength to do just that.

She need the the part about "Lead us not into
temptation"

Thanks to everyone to being supportive in all
of this.

I agree that going to her in a loving/caring way and letting her know that she's "left some important information out" is best.

As Justlearning said - she may explode..She will feel violated that you read her emails. WS's like to hold the secrets close - that's part of the A. Anytime I've gone to my WH even in a loving way and tried to extract the truth - it always became an explosion.

Don't be suprised if she doesn't want to give you more details than you have already. Also, watch how much you ask - it can/will hurt. You have to know that once you know more it will hurt even deeper and you don't want to destroy the love you have left for her.

I too thought I couldn't/wouldn't forgive/tolerate/accept infidelity in my M - but, once put to the test it's amazing what we can/will endure. There has definately been enoug for me to leave my M too and family and friends say GO..But, when you love someone so deeply you fight like hell to get them back. I shake my head and ask - Do I want him - because he doesn't want me??? How sad is that?? My WH will not stop - my choice is accept it and play the happy couple game or leave. The last couple of weeks I have really exposed his A's so now he's fuming..I've even called 2 of the OP and let them know they aren't the only ones and I may call their BS next. Funny, neither of these ladies (can I call them that) cared if I called their BS...Yet, they said they were happily M...

I feel the same way as you - I have to explore everyway to repair this M - when I've done it all and it still isn't right - then I'll be free to D - I'll know in my heart that I did all that I could..

I hope you get the answers that you want tonight and some solace that your WW is going to put effort into fixing the M.

Walk softly....

quoted by Ithurts,,,,

"You have to know that once you know more it will hurt even deeper and you don't want to destroy the love you have left for her."


To this I would say it is all about personality.

If there are any details you find you cannot quit thinking about and have to know,, not getting the answer can also hurt the marriage. When I wanted to ask about a detail of the affair it killed me to just sit and think about not knowing. Even when I repeatedly told myself "I dont care"

For me it was better to get the details I wanted. For one reason I didnt have to wonder anymore, and for another I fully understood how hard it was for my Wife to spill those details. She didnt tell me to hurt me she did it because she knew it stayed on my mind and was hindering our recovery. So I actually gained a since of respect for my wife by her answering my questions about her affair.
Not that this would be the same for you. If you feel that the details are not eating at you and hindering your recovery then answer them yourself and let them go. It is all about YOU and what you need to go on. If you truly feel that you do not need the details of the affair then dont ask about them. If you are like me and wondering about the details is taking up all of your thoughts. It really feels good to get the answers because you do not have to wonder about them.

Like IH said it will hurt,,,, but not for just you it will hurt your wife as well.

For me I considered this necessary hurt so I could get through my wondering phase.

Do what you feel is necessary.

I need to know everything. I am sure that
my imagination is worse then the truth.

I do not want to spy. I want to hear the truth
from her own lips. I want her to face what
she has done to us and understand her actions
will no longer be tolerated. I can not forgive
what I do not know.

She has betrayed my trust. I feel the only
way she can start to regain my trust is to
reveal everything to me.

I am sure she did not own up to anything else
when I asked her if there had ever been
anyone because she thought I would blow up.

I mean an EA is a lot easier to forgive then
a PA that has lasted years.

I plan to give her his one opportunity to come
clean. If she takes it then I am sure in time
and with counseling we will get past this.

If she does not reveal what I know is fact,
I am not sure what I will do.

I plan to ask her for a rough timeline detailing
every affair she has had over the last 9 years
and what she got out of every relationship

I want her to think about all the good things
about our marriage and why it should be saved.

If she is still in contact with them, I want
her to write the NC letters or have me on the
phone when she tells them not to call anymore.

One thing I plan to make very clear is that
there can be no other man besides me. If she
feels the need to experiment in the bedroom
she will have to share it with me and I will
do my best to comply.

The hardest part will be approaching all of this
with love and understanding. I am having
real trouble keeping the Jelious green eyed
monster out of my thoughts.

I don't want to push her away. I want this
to be a chance to show her how my I really love
her and want to fix things between us.

I really feel that today could be a defining
moment in my life.

Joker,,,

Very well said.

Man you sound just like I did.
One thing you do need to understand is this will not be easy for your wife.
If she is reluctant to tell dont make a drastic decision. More than likely she is going to be reluctant to tell.

To her by clinging on to her lies it is the only thing keeping you with her. She feels if she tell the truth YOU ARE GONE.

Please dont get to mad if she denies or lies about your questions. If she had her way she would take it to her grave to prevent you from leaving her.

Her motive to lie is not because she is a sorry S O B who was born to lie.

The truth is not easily revealed especially when its ugly.

My advise to U is to tell her calmly,, "Honey I am miserable right now and it is not because of what I know it is because of what I need to know. I really need the cold truth of what has occured in our marriage." "I know it is not easy for you to tell me of these things but I cannot move past the wall of not knowing" "It is not just important to me but it is important to our marriage that we get this out all at once so we can deal with the hurt, repair our marriage and be a loving spouse to one another again." "Please take your time to consider what I am saying and know that I am fully committed to forgiving, but for me forgiveness comes in forgiving everything"

Thats pretty close to the way I put it to my wife.

The next evening she sat me down and said "BRACE YOURSELF" "YOU ARE ABOUT TO LEAVE ME" then she spilled out everything and even asked if she left out any unanswered questions that I had for her.

I did not leave,,,, I cried like crazy but she was right there crying with me, it hurt both of us but it was so much of a burden lifted.

The truth really is a beautiful thing.

Well I did not have a chance to talk to her
again tonight. I wanted to but my son would
not go to sleep until almost 11:00pm.

I am starting to think there is a divine
force trying to tell me that this is not the
right time to do it.

We did have a wonderful evening. I cooked
dinner for the first time in about 7 years
because she was stuck in traffic. It
felt good to help out and she was very
appreciative.

We spent most of the night cuddling on the
bed watching tv. It has really calmed me down.

I know I will have to bring it up sometime
but I think it will be better if
I put some distance between telling her and
the reaction to the discovery.

I have ordered surving an affair, his needs her
needs and love busters. They should arive tommorow.

For the first time in as long as I can remember
she seems genuinely happy to be with me. Somehow
I don't think she would call herself unhappily
married anymore. Tonight I actually saw her
eyes light up when she looked into mine.

I gave me a great sense of hope. Maybe there
really still is a spark of passion burning
in her heart for me.

I will sleep soundly tonight.

If this is the wrong time to confront then leave your SAA and LB books out so she can see them.

She has been able to fool you for at least the last to years; Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.....

She probably senses "something" is wrong and has initialized the "auto-wife" to calm you a bit and it has seemed to work.

Coming face to face with the truth is hard and it is easy to talk yoursef out of it. Chances are her eyes aren't lighting up for you. She is what is called a "cake-eater." She is not accountable for her behavior at the moment because she has chosen to shirk her morals and vows in lieu of her selfish fantasies.

Give her a little bite of bitter reality to go with her oh so sweet cake.

God Bless

yeah know how you feel on this one.

I reckon you feel there is some control back in your relaionship & dont want to rock it right now.

Well dont, BUT by the same token you will have to bring this up or how can you really heal, really ever trust her again. Because I think thats the hardest thing we do, to try learn the trust again, perhaps we never really do.

So wait a bit until you feel more secure and dont play games......... tell her calmly, much like you discussed that you do know of person x, y & Z and ask her to exlain it to you.

In regards to the numbers of affairs IMHO I think there are two options here, either there is a basic relationship issue in your M that is long term,
or,
your wife has a separate issue or issues that need some professional help.

Hope you gain understanding and can recover well.

Have you talked with her yet???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by aussie2:
<strong> In regards to the numbers of affairs IMHO I think there are two options here, either there is a basic relationship issue in your M that is long term,
or,
your wife has a separate issue or issues that need some professional help.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the answer is both.

We had not been affectionate to each other in
years. We allowed life and the kids to come
between us. We actually had one or the other
son sleeping between us for almost 6 years.
There was no cuddling, no kissing (other then
forplay).

We did not take interest in each others lives.
There was no communication. We grew to
dislike and eventually hate eachother.
She always wanted to go out with her friends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> (yeah right) and left
me with the kids. In 7 years, I got to out
about 5 times. We never got a baby sitter
and went anywhere together.

The fights were endless. The sound of her
voice would turn my stomach in knots. I would
normally give in to make some peace but
the resentment would build.

I see all to clearing what happened here.

As for her sexual needs. To her sex and love
are seperate. I see sex as the ultimate act of love. The most you can give of yourself to another.

I was her first and only serious relationship.
She enjoyed the excitement of new lover.
I am not sure how many she has had. I know
that is more then twice mine of 14. All of mine
were serious relationships.

I am not sure how much of it was the lack of
getting her needs met or the excitement of
being wanted and feeling sexy.

My hope is that it was the first part. I am
actively looking for ways to meet her needs
and make sure mine are met two. There is a night
and day difference in how we have been
treating eachother the last month or so.
I can tell she know longer hates me.

I am to the point of almost being passionate about
her again. She is still a ways behind be but
she is starting to be more affectionate as well.
I really think that If I can left this burden from her and show her how much I care, she will
give herself to me fully again.

We do need professional help. Part of the problem
was her interactions with her father. He
was very controlling and never accepted her.

I learned from my decovery that she has a need
to feel controled especially in the bedroom.
As you can tell I am more of a giver.

I am will to help meet any need she has,
she just never shared it with me.

After we do confront the issue, I will
strongly urge that we get professional help.
We both need it.