First off, I have been reading the posts on this website for about a month now. It has been very helpful, because I don't really have anyone to talk to. My ordeal started about a little over a month ago. My wife of 9 years (14 yrs together) started a new position in her company. She made a few friends, and started going to happy hour, company functions, etc. That was great in my mind, because she never has had many friends, and has spent a lot of time at home, doing not much. I guess I can tell you that I have not been a loving H for many years now. Like so many, my idea of marriage was way off. I didn't treat my wife with anything close to respect, love, etc. Well, she went out really late a couple of times, and then one night she told me she was coming home, and then didn't. This set me off in a really horrible way. I told her she was driving me crazy. She finally showed up the next afternoon. Between this time, I had a moment of clarity, about how I was treating her. Big weight off of my shoulders. Then, four days later, she went to help her two friends from work help move. Well, she had found a journal I had been keeping in my car, and read it. She showed up at 2:30 in the morning, crying. I was so glad to see her, then she told me she had fallen for her new boss at work. I was shocked, but I immediately told her I forgive her, as I know I had not met her emotional needs. We talked two more times about this over the next 10 days or so. I came away with the gut feeling she was going to leave. Then about a week later, she blurted out that she was staying. I told her I feel we've gone from "A to C" without a "B". Wife told me she was too scared to talk now. I have been plan A'ing before I got on this site, and have continued to do so. We had our anniversary last weekend (5 year old daughter at the sitter). W had a golf outing at work that day. She told me ahead of time she may screw it up. Well, after calling me three times to say she was coming home, she didn't show up until 11:45 at night. She felt bad, but I said it was allright. This last week, her two friends called from a bar close to our house at 10:30 at night, for her to come have a drink. Her explanation to me was they were too drunk to drive, so she would drive them home. Before she left, I lost my composure, and made her promise to call if she was going to be out all night. I wrote her a note telling her I was having trust issues, and needed to work thru them. We still have a minimal sex life, which is what we had before. Her two friends came over a few weeks ago. W left them in our garage, and said she knew if they met me they would like me, then burst into tears and said I do love you. I have a few questions: Is my wife in the "fog" right now? Should I not press any serious talk? What about her work situation? Her job requires her boss to listen in on conversations she is having. When I call her work lately, she talks quietly and has to go. I would have a hard time asking my wife to leave her work ( I want to). We depend on both our monies, and for her to start over a new job would kill us financially ( we live check to check). I tried to bring up something casual the other night, and she just gets really defensive, and I back off. I am playing it as cool as I can, but inside I have things I think I need to know. I know W's trust with me is at an all-time low as well. I have working on myself and the future like I haven't in many years. That feels great. My only friend who knows caught his wife and future best man in the act two weeks before this all happened, so I talk to him, but it's not enough. He is nice, but I need someone else's take. Sorry so long, I could go on, and on... Any help would be great. Thanks...

The forums are great place to ask questions but you really need to read and understand the Marriage Builders concepts.
See below.

Thanks for answering. I have read just about everything on this website. I may have not gotten the symbols right , yet. The concepts on the site are very important to me right now. Let me know if you can tell me what my post was missing. Thanks again

My number one piece of advice is your wife needs to quit that job. I know it will be hard for your financially, but a divorce is even harder on the finances.

The sooner she quits, the better.

Plan A is the right place for you to be right now, but your wife has to have no contact, in order to make your marriage better.

Thank you so much for your thoughts. Seeing as my W isn't really talking about EN's right now,just surface things, do I need to do this right away? I know I can do it without yelling, in a dignified manner, but I fear this could be the next step to her getting out. If we didn't have a kid, I think she would be gone.... Thanks for any advice.

Start Plan A and ask if she will quit her job. Do it calmly, and let her know that you would like to have a better marriage.

Last night after dinner (W had dinner with daughter and I, rare) W says she's not sure if this job is for her. I told her I had been thinking the same thing myself. Then W blurts out "do you want me out for me or for you." This was right in front of my daughter, and I didn't get into it, and she huffed away. After daughter was asleep, W came out to the living room, and sat and said"I'm going to bed". I asked if we could talk, and she came up with a sarcastic, "I think the phrase I'm tired is a clue, and went to bed. We have a four day weekend at home this weekend. I want to bring it up, yet the idea of ruining this weekend together is another LB? I will tell her that it isn't for me or her, it should be for us. I think that ought to get her thinking about it. She just acts like none of this ever happened right now. Thanks for listening.

WGO--

First let me say how sorry I am that you are here. This is a very tough place to be.
Second, you need a plan. Plan A is where you need to be. Can you sit down with her, and really talk about saving your marriage? Can you ask her if she wants to try to restore the love? Even if it is for your child right now....thats good enough place to start.
If she says yes.Start planning. You are allowed to be hurt. You are allowed to be angry. You are allowed to show that hurt and anger AS LONG AS YOU ARE RESPECTFUL. NO love busting. NO disrespectful judgements or comments.
Show her the book. Show her the site here. DON"T educate her. That will make her angry, believe me. Ask her to fill out the Emotional Needs questionair. Explain to her that it will help you make her happy. Explain that you know you haven't done the 'perfect" job as her husband, and that you would like to do better, but need her help. Once the two of you fill those out, you get to work. Its hard to PLan A, unless you know what she needs. In exchange for your plan A, and meeting her needs, she will have to end contact with her boss. That will require her quitting her job. I understand how difficult this will be. However, it just doesn't work without no contact. VERY, VERY, VERY few can make recovery work if still in "contact".
So to sum up:
Ask her to fill out questions, YOU TOO.
Then MEET HER NEEDS.
DO NOT love bust.
Ask her to quit her job. End contact with OM.

Best of luck to you. This is a long, difficult road. One I've been on for years. It's worth it, though.
tsc

Thank you so much for the thoughful advice. The question is how to show that anger and frustration w/out LB'ing. I've had one break down since Plan A'ing started, and I think that may have something to do with why W seems more distant than last week. W told me not to beat myself up over it. I know I can't be perfect, but I told her 2x's how sorry I was in a calm, respectful tone. Since I have "seen the light" in my life, I haven't blown up at anything much anyways. My life has definately changed for the better lately. I think I'm ready to ask W to take a step forward with me/us. Comments appreciated. THANKS.

WGO.....I'm fairly new but I've been Plan Aing since July 26th. I've been through the "how did this happen stage" through the exposure stage (quite the angry response) and now I'm in the Plan Aing until I feel I need to go to Plan B.

Reading your post reminds me of how my WW was around the middle of March. She was sometimes upbeat and happy; sometimes she was rather unpleasant to be around (little comments tossed here and there). I've since determined that most of the "happy" times were close to when she had contact with the OM. Most of the "not so happy" times were when the time between contact with OM stretched out. Bear in mind, I've also seen the affects of exposure and even that "foggy show" subsides.

I feel I've executed a well laid Plan A. Today she called me six times from the east coast whereas three weeks ago she only called me names.

I've learned that I can get my point across without necessarily LBing. I've decided to not show anger/frustration in front of her. I DO show hurt because my face shows it. I don't verbalize it, but I can see her reaction when she says/does something hurtful. The anger/frustration I save for when I'm alone or here on MB. The part of Plan A that I latched on to was to "show strength, confidence, engaging, etc.". Someone she wants to be around without all the doom/gloom of the affair. It's worked so far for me and I even feel better about the changes I've made within myself.

I'm still working the no contact issue. What I've learned is what to expect when she has/has not had contact.

.......LS

I meant "middle of August". March must have stuck in my head because my DD and friend were marching around the house. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, it took me 3 long weeks, but I finally told W last night that she should quit her job and have no contact with OM. W is still in the fog about everything. I don't believe I LB'd in any way, and was proud of my efforts. W was in shock, but said she understood my feelings. Told me it sounded like an ultimatum; I told her it wasn't, and said it was a courtesy to me. My, it was hard.But I felt very confident in doing it. W said she has no one to talk to about this. W's best friend and W are sort-of estraged from each other, but I think I talked her into meeting with her. W worried about even that, because her husband works for W's company (exposure, I suppose). I told her she needs to talk to her best friend. I told W that she should not be going out all the time with co-workers (including OM) and I should be able to tell where she's at (courtesy) all the time.
Another thing is my W is in charge of our $ at our house. I checked last Thursday about our finances, and we are $300 in the hole! She went to a work party at the casino, and has been out with co-workers a couple of times. I'm sure she blew a bunch of $. Her changing jobs will hit us so hard, but I don't care. I will tell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> W tonite I'm taking over the $ for awhile. I know this is going to be hard. Maybe she will welcome this $ transfer. She has in the past, run us into finacial ruin twice, while I kept my head in the sand. No more!. Please can you help with any advice of how to handle things? I told W she shouldn't go out with these people. I told her when I was going out all those times, NONE of the people I saw would now lend me support. Probably the same with her. Am I handling things well? I think so....

As far as the finances are concerned, this is something that would give you an opportunity to implement the POJA [Policy Of Joint Agreement - Do nothing unless it is enthusiastically agreed by both spouses]. You may consider conveying to her the following:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honey, normally I have no problems with you handling the finances but I noticed that we are $300 in the hole, and considering the emotional turmoil that both of us are going through at this moment, I was thinking that maybe I should take over the finances for a while. What do you say?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember that an important part of Plan A is to avoid all love busters and those include Independent Behavior [i.e taking over the finances by force without]

TOOmuch. Thanks for your wise words. I will talk to her tonite. Do you have any suggestions about how to handle W leaving her job. If she resists, how can I not LB the situation? I just want her out. Not a "great new job", just a job. I told her I will help any way possible. Any thoughts from you or anyone who's been thru this? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

how about using the POJA [Policy Of Joint Agreement - Do nothing unless it is enthusiastically agreed by both spouses] to work on a way to get a new job & stay in this one until she has a new one?.

You could agree on the hours she will work in the meantime while she finds another job, that she will not go out with the friends & OM, keep contact with OM to minimum & professional, thjat short of thing.

Remember too, though you did contribute to the situation where your wife choose an affair, she DID choose it and that is not your responsibility. Its hers. But you will need to help her come back to the M and begin healing.

Her staying out all hours is not ok, by saying its ok you are helping to enable the affair. Obviously you cannot make her do anything, but you should set some boundaries and do not hesitate to let her know that her actions are hurting you. Remember, as has been put so well by another poster here, you are supposed to be a 'lighthouse' not a 'outhouse'.
You may not get a good response of course, thats not unusal but keep plan A'ing for now as hard as that may be.
If you start having trouble with that let the experts like believer here know right away & they will give some good advice

I can't advise on Plan A/B, but just wanted to say from my own experience--she needs to leave the job ASAP.

My WH hates his job and should've had a new one by now. I would press on him about sending out resumes, he'd give me excuses.

I exposed the A back in December '03. Last week, he wrote her a note saying "he loves her so much". (to which he told me was not true) So yeah, either one of them HAVE to get out of the situation in order for your M to have the best outcome.

Good luck!

Appreciate all of your advice. One more thing (for now, well it could be 10 more things by the time I get thru writing!). Do I need to contact OM's W to see if she knows for sure? My W looked so confused when I brought this up last night. Didn't say anything. OM may be lying, W may be lying. Do I ask W for his name? I don't even want to know it. Ugh... Do I call his W. Is this too much for my W to handle in a 2 day span? I would have no problem confirming this. Will it push W and OM together? See, I told you it would be more than "one thing". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

YES!! Contact the OM's W IMMEDIATELY w/what you know. Trust me, i speak from experience. I waited two months to do this and only wish i had done it sooner (my WH threatened to leave if i did). Sure it could "push" them together, give them something to talk about, etc...all fears i had too. But the worst is not saying anything. You are allowing him to have absolutely no consequences for his actions right now, thus helping this continue. Also, since he is your WW's boss, you have some play there as well by threatening to tell work. My WH's OW was just a coworker, had he been her boss i would've been all over possibly exposing a work scandal. This might help them wake up to reality as well.

Thanks for the words. I found another thread where people were giving opinions on this exact topic, after I wrote my last message. Seems like it's about 50/50 to tell or not. I need others to weigh in as well. I want to believe W, but I sound like a broken record here!? Should I wait until W gets another job, then call? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

whatsgoinon,

If your wife refuse to quit her job or end all contact with the OM, THAT is the time to expose the affair. No matter what, if OM returned your wife's feelings or if there was physical contact of any kind....his wife needs to know. But full exposure is for affairs that become entrenched....not in instances where you have a spouse who will end things at D-day. I hope you don't need it. What do you know about her involvement with her boss? Was it reciprocal. Was it physical at all? Please continue to "confront" your spouse about how this makes YOU feel....she needs to see the consequences of her actions and the pain she is causing you in order to come out of the fog. Friends....should be friends of your marriage....if they aren't....please tell you aren't enthusiastic about her friendships and that it hurts you when she doesn't take your feelings into account. You can express anger, disappointment, frustration etc without LBing....and you should.