Well, CC,

One thing you are going to learn from the last post is that YOU are a very lucky woman. Your H could be like the last poster. And you know what he/she is entitled to make that decision with regard to his/her mate as your H is.

I would like strongly reiterate the statement that your A is not over until you get rid of the items that have at home that remind you of your lover. There is a reason we keep picture of family and love ones, it is to keep the images and rememberances alive. Why would you think it is any different with a lover? It is not.

You have received some good advice here, and some harsh advice which is no less valid. So it will come down to decisions on your part. How long will you keep yourself, your H, and your family in the agony of the A? It is your call until and unless your H decides HE will make the decision. I doubt you would like it much.

So please continue to think about these things, and do read the book. Finally, your assumption and blame shifting that your lover was the only one that cared or would listen suggests you are still trying to dodge things. That is NOT good.

Must go. God Bless,

JL

I can't agree with gate4, although I respect the frankness of the message. Certainly Harley doesn't agree in "once a cheater...always a cheater". And fortunately for me, it seems that my wife may trust me again. Although she has told me that something will always be changed. I have lost a certain corner of our love forever.

The degree of CC's defense and illogical conclusions does seem to peg the meter. I wondered at first if maybe we were being played with. The lack of intellect in her story is painful, but it all seems to fit together. If it were a lie it just wouldn't flow so well. I just say... wow!

Anyway, Harley wouldn't be able to sell a single book if people weren't allowed to make mistakes. We are allowed, but we are not allowed to continue living like an idiot indefinately. CC, you need to regroup. And I think I done writing too. Read a book and then come back.

Sorry I don't know how to place a quote in my r eply, but this was said and I have to disagree with it:

"I learned years ago that most people can't break bad habits or "lifescipts" that were "baked" as a child."

It's been proven that it IS possible to change your thinking. It just takes work and you have to want to do it for yourself. You can't simply expect someone else to do that for you. Believing what you siad is a cop-out, in my opinion, for people who are either too lazy or not ready to change.

gate4, I really don't care if you think I "suck". People make mistakes-we're all human. You sound very insecure and unforgiving and I hope you never make mistakes in your lifetime!

JL, I already put most of the stuff from "her" away, out of sight. I still don't think there's a need to burn it or get rid of it. It's now part of my past and I won't pretend it didn't happen. I printed off the emails and stored them all together in case I want to see them in the future. I'm not pouring over everything, praying for her to come back. This is now part of my life, part of my past that I must accept and learn from.

I'm surprised, Dave, that you'd think I wasn't for real. I'm SO curious as to what made you think that! Everything I've said here has been the truth. My identity is hidden, so I have nothing to lose by telling the truth here. I wouldn't be wasting my time posting here for nothing. This is real and it happened to me. Sorry if you had to think twice about it. I wonder why trolls would bother taking the time to post things here (if they ever have).

I've had a long day. We hosted my extended family for a Labor Day bbq. It was a nice day. DH and I worked together to pull off a nice holiday for our children and everyone who came here. I know that we have a long road ahead, but we're both trying to take this one step at a time. Sorry if I don't do things at the textbook's pace (i.e.: burning everything from the A, etc...). This is MY life, and I'm going through this and so is my H. I'll try to take everyone's advice into consideration and do what's best for me, him and our children.

Thanks again for your input, and I'll try to read those books and more here as soon as I'm able.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Once a cheater, always cheater, is my motto. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I used to think the same way. Not only that----- I also thought I would not tolerate an affair and would get a divorce right away if my wife slept with another man. Then at age 53 I find out she had a PA after we had been married for 30 years. It is not easy to throw away 30 years---------- easier said than done!

However, the seed was there for a PA, her family background and the fact that at age 14 she had an affair with a man in his mid 30s. Neverthelessm, my wife managed to avoid contact with another man (other than me) from age 14 to 49. Her affair at age 14 with a man in his mid 30s was a huge mismatch as well as her affair with a man who did not match her looks at all at age 49. My wife always looked like a model---- tall, normal body weight, elegant, ect. The OM------- short, obese with well below avarage physical presence.

The nature of these mismatches is very interesting to me. Of course, the ultimate mismatch was CCs, OW. This is really a MISMATCH!. Here you have a thin happy woman with a good husband and no prior knowledge of bisexuality who falls madly in love with ANOTHER WOMAN who is 300 lbs. Obviously there is something about Internet affairs that I CANNOT understand no matter how haard I try. For me to fall in love I must have the physical presence of my prospective mate before I go down the road to "fall in love". I will never understand how anyone can fall in love with a personality and then get it on sexually regarless of what they look like. Call me vain, but I just don't get it.

Stanley,

It was surprising to me to fall in love with her (a woman). I DID see pictures of her soon after our friendship started, so I can't say that I fell in love with her without knowing what she looked like. I just assumed that this came out of the blue and that it didn't matter that she was a woman, or that she was heavy. I still found her to be VERY attractive to me. She had many qualities that I found to be beautiful.

I used to be quite offended when people would speak of her so dismissively because of her weight. I think that I became an advocate for overweight people. BTW, an aside note here: I was about 40 lbs. heavier before I met her, and had just gone through a weight loss program and met my goals. Being healthy and fit was VERY important to me, yet I wasn't insistant that my girlfriend lose weight or get in shape to be attractive to me. She's always been big and she's been at the same weight for a while. If she asked me questions about health, losing weight, etc., I'd offer it to her, but I wasn't on a mission to change her. I only wanted her to be as healthy as she could be.

So, in answer to your statement, I don't think that just because 2 people are "mismatched" physically, they can't be in love! I always thought I'd fall in love with a tall, blonde man, and I fell in love with my H, who is short and has dark curly hair.

CC

CC, you sound very sincere. Let me clarify my rear view mirror comment. Every time you make a commitment to your marriage it will sacrificing some of what you are hanging on to. The good news is it always feels GREAT several days after you do it. It feels like progress and it makes you proud of yourself, something that I don't think you feel very much of right now.

You have to reverse some of your logic. You do have to erase the other woman from your life. Your statements indicating that she is a permanent fixture in your memories is denial. You are denying that you have made a mistake.

The bridge of destroying the evidence of the other woman is still ahead of you and it will some day have to be crossed. Your marriage is on the other side. You will not be destroying your friend. She is now busy putting her life back together without you.

This is exactly like being addicted to heroin. Do you think ex-addicts keep their syringes laying around to honor the highs they used to have?

Stanley,

I'm not going to call you vain about your comment, but I will say that I would think that everyone is different. (THank god!) Not everybody needs a tall, blond, perfect model to have sex. If they did, only 7 people in the world would ever be having sex. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Jess-Anne ]</small>

CC you said "I only wanted her to be as healthy as she could be.
" Another statement that defies your logic (to borrow a phrase from another person here sorry I can't remember who) because you say she tried to end things and you didn't let her so and you even keep pursuing her now so obviously you don't care that she is as healthy as she could be.

Jess-Anne,

I'm not "pursuing her now". I've stopped a while ago, ever since she sent me the NC letter. I *am* still interested to see how she's doing though, and I think I'll always care deeply about her.

I'm glad to read your comments about mismatches and looks. I really don't think that looks played any part in MY affair.

Dave,

More words for me to ponder. I'm not ready to destroy all evidence of my friendship/relationship with my girlfriend. I'm not ready to admit that it was a mistake either. Maybe a bad judgment call?? And I only say that because of how it ended and what it did to my H. A lot of good came from that relationship too, and I don't think that destroying all evidence of it is what I'd want to do. After all, I still have letters, etc., from old boyfriends (before I met my H). Should I have destroyed them too? In my opinion, that was part of my life and I have it saved for ME to look at when/if I want to. Destroying everything from my girlfriend doesn't make her or the A just disappear. I'm not pouring over it daily, so I don't see the need to destroy it. IF my H requested that I do so, that would be a different story. As I've stated, I already put aside a lot of things that I had kept out, such as pictures of her, gifts from her that I kept on my night table, etc. I doubt highly that I'll "destroy" everything she's given me. That's just not who I am.

CC

Hello Confused Cheater,

I am sorry but I have to respond to your comment that you did not see why you should destroy the letters from your relationship since you kept your old letters from your previous boyfriend prior to meeting your husband. I am amazed that you do not see the difference. When you were with your previous boyfriends you were single. This relationship is one in which you betrayed, humiliated and disrespected your husband and your marriage vows and you still wish to keep the letters?
Let me ask you how you would feel if your husband went and cheated on you with another person for a year. He then informs you that he wishes to keep all of the letters with the other person when he was cheating on you on the grounds that he keep some of the letters with his previous girlfriends before he was married to you?
The differnece is huge. You wish to retain fond memories of the time you were cheating and betraying your husband with a woman you were emotionally and sexually involved with. Honestly, if you cannot see the difference then I simply do not know what to say to you.

CC,

Here is the problem. Your H won't ask very likely unless they are blanantly in his face, but they will hurt him. You see who you are right now is a woman that is NOT very committed to your H and he knows it. Who you are is NOT the letters some boy sent you decades ago. Those letters don't even reflect who you were. They simply reflect that someone cared enough to send you a letter and express their view of you.

It it were true that those letters reflected who you are and were then clearly your H's thoughts would as well, and that was NOT true. He did not think who you were was a woman capable of 2-3 years of lies and deceit. He did not think you were a woman capable of hurting so bad. Yet, by your own admission, that is what all that you want to keep from her represent. They represent your ability to lie, cheat, steal, and betray your H and your family.

You cannot have it both ways. You want to cherish the memories of your betrayal of your H. You are NOT living in a vacuum CC. You are not living alone. You are trying to live with your H and your family after having failed them in the worst possible way.

I realize you are still in the fog and it is still ALL about you. That is pretty normal as Dave said, but you are going to have to come out of this and recognize that you are the ONLY one that feels this was a great time and harmless to everyone else. It was not and you have done great harm. I think you are selling your H short here. His staying does NOT imply that he has not been greatly harmed.

He is faced with the fact that you littered your House with pictures and gifts from your affair. You even had a picture on your nightstand according to you. Do you realize how disrespectful that was? Do you realize how your H looks back and sees this? Of course you don't, it is all about you and your lover. But, someday it will be about your H and someday he may grow tired of your inability to see how you disrespected him.

I realize I cannot hurry this, but I do warn you, that you don't have infinite time to make things right.

God Bless,

JL

JL (and brianp),

Okay, I see your point about her being different from old boyfriends. The letters, etc., started WAY back before we were involved in the A. They were all out of friendship, and I'd like to keep them. The other letters right now are helping me clear some questionable things up in my head. They're put aside and they're not in my H's face. I guess I'll destroy them when I feel it's time.

A side note here: I've spoken with a friend who is an attorney, and she advised me to hold onto every shred of evidence I have pertaining to my "friend". Because my friend has taken the stance that I somehow "abused" her, I may need them to defend myself, should she start any kind of lawsuit. Therefore, I'm not about to get rid of anything yet. It's all put aside.

As for the pictures, etc., they were put away back in May. I *did* have a picture of her on my night table, along with a "friendship" ball and some other little trinkets. They're all put away. My H didn't need it staring him in the face, and frankly, I didn't either.

Every gift and every thing that she's given to me, H and my children isn't put aside. Some of those things mean to much to everyone, and they're not going to ditch them just because of who gave it to them. If they wanted to, that's fine with me too, but I don't think that they're linking it with her. Time will tell.

I'm having a very rough day today, not that I'll get ANY sympathy since the majority of you think I'm a horrible human being for doing what I did. I'm going through the motions and trying to figure everything out, but some days it's VERY hard to even take a baby step forward. It's hard for me to read the materials suggested, and it's hard for me to even be around anyone today, even though I'm trying. I'm sure it'll be even a rougher road ahead.

Again, thanks for your input. I guess I'm learning every day here...

CC

CC,

I don't recall anyone saying you are horrible. What they have all said is that what you DID was horrible. There is a big difference. I am sure you will have rough days. But they will get better as you recover from what you have done. It takes time and patience. In this regard the advice is the same for a WS or BS, time and patience.

Gradually, you will see what you have been missing in your H. It just takes time.

As for the documents and letters, if your attorney says you need to keep them, then box and seal them and put them someplace out of the way. But, I doubt you will hear from your OW with regard to this.

Take care,

JL

Do you know what? As the only other woman posting here in this thread (I think) I have to say that I agree with what JL said and that is that even though my comments were harsh I never said you were horrible (at least I don't think I did I'd have to look back, but I was really angry when I first read you post because it was too close to home for me). And frankly you will never get any sympathy from me. If we ever met in real life I'm sure I'd never even like you because what you stand for is nothing I could stand being near. But what I do have to say is that I feel extremely sorry for your husband, and I hope for his sake that you will make a decision one way or the other way and try to move towards that. Like JL said it can't be rushed but for all of us looking on from the other side it's excruciating to listen to your repeated denial. And even though your so right that you don't get sympathy from me, the BS, for your so-called bad day (and please keep in mind that your WORST bad day is probably only a tiny percentage of what your H's worst bad day has been lately) I do really wish that you would get some kind of strength from somewhere (maybe from all the people here that you fel are supporting you?) and move forward. After all, what has staying where you are actually gotten you??? So I wish you the best and I wish your family the best.

I am not saying that looks are everything. However, most of the time couples seem to match each other based on similar looks and profiles. Of course one sees mismatches all the time and it is not a big deal!. However, it seems to me that the mismatches tend to be way more common in affairs and one wonders if the physical appearance is less of an issue for a wayward spouse. I think what is really important for the unfaithful spouse is the opportunity to cheat. In my case my wife’s OM was from out of town and a child hood friend and high school classmate. She never paid attention to the guy when they were in school. However when they made contact thru “classmates.com” my wife thought---”why not, who cares about looks, we are in our late 40s!” Is not like I am going to marry him to make babies! The important thing is that he has a nice personality and he is in need of a friend!” She loved the idea that he was out of town because there would be no pressure and she could look at me in the face everyday with no guilty conscience. BTW, when the OM visited town I can now retrospectively see that she was stressed around the house.

My wife thought the OM was nice even though he had just left his wife for the 2nd time after having another affair. My wife defended the OM by saying he did not love his wife anymore! The OM told my wife that shortly after ending his marriage things fell with the OW because she was frigid. My wife believed him! Can you imagine a man cheating on his wife with a frigid woman? Does that make sense? I pointed this out to my wife and she admitted it didn’t make sense.

BTW, my wife was not too happy about the fact that I was pointing out the deficiencies and the lack of integrity of the OM.

My wife eventually told the OM that I was not interested in her sexually. Obviously a lie as my wife was the one who denied me sex over and over again during her affair. Later she admitted the reason for her denial was the intense feeling of guilt she endured when making love to me (even though she would eventually get into it and have an orgasm). When I discussed this issue with my wife and how she said NO so many times she simply said I should have tried harder to make love to her because she had to deal with intense guilt every time I touched her. The funny thing is that as this was happening my wife felt I was the one who had abandoned her sexually. She actually believed I had no interest in her even thou she was the one pulling away.

BTW, my wife still thinks the affair was a positive experience (it lifted her self-esteem) and has some presents in the house as well, but I don’t know what they are. She claims the presents do not enhance her withdrawal. Well----- initially I said nothing since I could no recognize the presents and I wanted to avoid a fight. But, as of today they will have to go!

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

CC, I think quite the opposite. I'm starting to empathize with you a bit. My wife and I discussed you today and I'd like to share some of our thoughts with you. Your plea for understanding why I may have doubted your authenticity hasn't been answered.

I started out thinking that you had an affair very similar to mine. But since getting to know you better, I can see that you are in a very special affair, if you are in one at all. You have to remember that you have come to a group called "Marriage Builders" to ask for help. We presume that is what you want to do, build your marriage, and every piece of advice that has been written has made that assumption. Is that what you want? To rebuild your marriage? Do feel that your marriage has been threatened, or is you husband just upset? Nobody has asked.

Secondly, we have all assumed the fact that your lover is the same sex is not an important factor. Do you believe that having sex with her is the same relationship as having sex with your husband? You seem to have no problem having guiltless sex with both of them at the same time, well the same day anyway. When I was in the heat of my affair I didn't even want sex with my wife. I had been in what Harley calls withdrawal and preferred to get my needs, including sex, from someone else. I think I'm beginning to understand that you don't think there is a conflict. And this would very much be related to a same sex affair.

It has also escaped my thoughts on your situation that you were (please excuse the word) dumped. You were not discovered by your husband and in a process of saving your marriage, you were in a process of saving your lover. If she hadn't dumped you, you would still be going on loving two people, one male, one female. Is there anything wrong with that? That's the question you have to answer. Most people, I presume, come to Marriage Builders to build their marriage. Your mind seems to be elsewhere, and I think it's because you have no moral problem with what you have done. And I'm not being critical. I'm an engineer, I just like to figure out how things work. That's why I love Harley's books.

Anyway CC, I think you have really had the fire hose turned on you. And I think it is partly because most of us have not had bi-sexual experiences. I'm not condoning them nor condemning them. But the central question is, where is YOUR head? If you don't think that you have done anything wrong, then you may want to go about defining what your problem is a little better. I'm not sure what you problem is any more. It seems to me you've just been dumped, (we all know what that feels like) but the rest of your life is going on fairly normally, including your marriage and your family BBQ. Do you feel that your female love is in conflict with your male love? I don't think that you do.

The authenticity of your first writing was questioned in my mind because of these issues. Without discussion, they were rather bizarre. I think we have greatly underestimated the importance that your relationship was with another woman. I'll step out on a limb here... Could it be that you don't even feel that you have had an affair, i.e. violated your husband?

One more word of what I consider wisdom. Radical honesty. My wife and I were seeing a consular after my affair. I had some further indiscretions and went the consular seeking advice on how to straighten things out again. She recommend that I keep it to myself to protect my wife, and never do it again. Harley says just to opposite. If you have not been totally open with your husband, if you are still living a secret life, I recommend that you stop. If your husband knows EVERYTHING, well then good for you, and I have a lot of faith that you'll eventually get this resolved.

Lastly, I'd like to withdraw one piece of advice, which book to read first. I previously recommend "Surviving an Affair". I think that you should start at the beginning. "His Needs, Her Needs". It helps you understand yourself. Surviving an Affair won't do that.

Dave,

Wow!! You really touched on some things that I must have had buried deeply in me somewhere. For a few years now, ever since I fell in love with this woman, I wondered what did that "make" me. I wondered if it meant I was gay, bi or what! My girlfriend used to shrug it off when I asked her the same thing, saying, "Don't label me. I'm in love with you and you happen to be a woman, but I'm still attracted to men." Okay, I was in the same boat. But over time I grew less and less attracted to my H and to all men. PLEASE READ: I'm NOT attracted to ANY other women, other than my former girlfriend. So, what does that "make" me??

These questions have been burning bright in my mind for a while. And, YES, you hit the nail on the head--I didn't feel so guilty about the affair because it was with a woman. After all, it wasn't another man taking my H's place in any way, right? I don't think this was my way of justifying it. I was/am trying to figure out what I'm attracted to. It's all very, very confusing to me.

I'm going to think a lot of this over, but you really set me off thinking. I DO still love my H (please, no flames for saying this). I don't want to leave him and leave our relationship but I feel like I need time to figure out what I want and whom I am attracted to, and what it all means to my sexuality.

As far as telling my H everything; I have. I'm not holding anything back. He knows just where I'm at with all of this, as we discuss it in MC. We came to the agreement that my H will give me room to figure things out. He's giving me up to a year, and in that time he won't pressure me sexually. This IMMEDIATELY made me feel closer to him. I felt such immense pressure as soon as I told him about the A, as though he thought, "Well, it's over and now you'll come back to wanting me". I couldn't deal with that pressure. I don't know who or what I want at this point. I don't want myself, so how could I want anyone???

As I've stated, I'm usually a VERY sexual person, and now I feel very asexual. Maybe it's a defense mechanism. I don't know.

As far as my story with my girlfriend, yes, she "dumped" me over a year ago. I was devastated but I was pretty sure she'd change her mind like she did many times in the past. And I was grateful for our friendship. I don't know how long our A would have gone on if she didn't end it. GOOD QUESTION!!! I don't know if she and would have coasted for another 20 years until her children were grown and gone. She told me that it would be difficult to live like that, but she'd try. I was willing to do that too. We wanted a life together, but it was a pipedream; a hope, a longshot. She always said that "if" her situation were different, we'd have been together. I'm sure that's true and that whole part is very sad to me. I'm sorry that it all sounds trivial and textbook-like, but she and I DID have love and I'm grieving for what could have been. I *think* I would have ended up with her, but then again, I really don't know because I still loved my H. Does any of this make sense??

My sister told me, "You love **** and you'd never leave him" (my H). Maybe she's right. I don't know.

Anyway, H and I went out to dinner alone tonight. It was nice. He and I still are close and everything is open and on the table now. He even discussed having another attorney write a letter to my ex and ask for all of MY things back. I had forgotten just what I left there. He wants to help me get over all of this and move on, but I guess I'm still finding it difficult.

Thanks again for your input. I'll mull it over. Tomorrow's the first day of school for our children, so it'll be rough. Our DD has anxiety (she's had it for years), so we'll see if she's even able to go..... That's what's first and foremost on my mind today!! Take care and thanks again.

CC

CC,

I am hardly an expert on these things, but thanks to a lot of reading on this site the last few days I have learned quite a bit. I encourage you to do the same at every opportunity. You did mention a couple of things I'd like to address directly. I'm sure JL or someone more versed at this stuff than I am will contribute much more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>And, YES, you hit the nail on the head--I didn't feel so guilty about the affair because it was with a woman. After all, it wasn't another man taking my H's place in any way, right? I don't think this was my way of justifying it. I was/am trying to figure out what I'm attracted to. It's all very, very confusing to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This probably isn't going to be easy to read, but you are indeed justifying your behavior. You are continuing, in fact, to justify it today. Let me try to draw a parallel:

"I'm not supposed to eat grapes because I am deathly allergic to them. But I've never had them, and I want to know if I like them, so I need to try some to see if I like them."

Is that extreme or not applicable, do you think? Let's substitute a few words and see how it sounds:

"I'm not supposed to have an affair because it is hurtful for my marriage. But I've never been sexual with a woman before, and I feel so close to this woman that I should try it to see who/what I am attracted to."

Throughout all this I wonder - do you really believe that it was wrong to have an affair in the first place? I have yet to get that impression from any of your posts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I DO still love my H (please, no flames for saying this). I don't want to leave him and leave our relationship but I feel like I need time to figure out what I want and whom I am attracted to, and what it all means to my sexuality.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't gone back to double-check this, but did you not in an earlier post say you were ready to leave your H to be with her? I'm pretty positive I read that. Did you not also say (or imply) that you would still leave him today if she wanted to continue the relationship? Are you being completely honest with yourself about the way you feel about your H and your marriage?

Your last statement above about exploring your sexuality, etc., makes me question who you are really putting first here. It sounds to me like this is all still about you. If after all this "discovery" you feel that it is best for YOU to remain with your H, then that's what you'll do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>We came to the agreement that my H will give me room to figure things out. He's giving me up to a year, and in that time he won't pressure me sexually. This IMMEDIATELY made me feel closer to him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are incredibly lucky to have a H willing to do that. Incredibly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I don't want myself, so how could I want anyone???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you not want yourself? Have you figured that out yet? I hope you are getting some IC in addition to MC. I recall your earlier mention of taking sleeping pills. I hope you know this is not a good idea right now.

Good luck with this. You will find plenty of great help on this site. I know I did.

I believe we are human beings first and male/female second. To label a man and a woman as having certain behavioral qualities will lead to wrong conclusion quickly. We are identical in thought, altered emotionally by a little chemistry and life roles. And we are all "sexual" as you have described yourself, CC. At least I am, big time, much more than my wife, but that doesn't give us a license to live a double life and ignore the person we love so dearly. I made a big mistake when I allowed my needs to be met by another person, and so have you. You and I are traders, and we are despicable. Don't try and rationalize it any other way. You'll sound like, and be a fool. Correct your ways and ask forgiveness, in that order. Don't ask for or expect forgiveness when you're not even sorry for violating you spouse. Again, your husband seems to be there for you. I still don't see why you are having such a hard time leaving a problem relationship if your marriage is as good as you say. It doesn't add up CC.

Nature has made our bodies for each other. There is no possible sense for two people of the same gender to participate in sexual acts together, except to fulfill needs we are not getting from our restricted member of the opposite sex. This is one of my double standards in life: I can tolerate the idea of to women being together long before I could accept the idea of two men. I wouldn't doubt that many women feel the same in reverse. Harley explains how men and women don't understand each other's needs. So maybe it's easier for two women to understand each other, or two men. I donno. I'm trying to find as much empathy as I can for you.

But as I said I'm an engineer and it is painfully obvious that the male/female union was meant to be, and sexual acts between same sex partners is an anomaly without purpose. If natural selection was at work, such behavior would be automatically eliminated because it has no purpose in "life". (BTW CC, not sure what you meant by asexual.) I could go on here about the consequences of bi-sexual behavior, but it gets quite ugly. Just ask yourself if you want your children acting like you have.

But now I regress to my first statement, we are human beings first, and gendered second. We can absolutely love another person of the same sex. Now assuming all this rambling of mine is true, you have to be intelligent. Are you going to seek physical intimacy from the same sex when you don't have too. And if you are, you have to answer why. I don't think that you can, and if you have the same sex relationship anyway, you are an idiot. Nothing personal.

CC, you seem incapable of solving your problem emotionally, as is probably the case in every loving affair. (not all affairs are loving) But unless you want to declare yourself an idiot, you have to stop. Every mammalian brain has an emotional core. The human brain has a logical, thinking exterior. The emotional brain can be trained by the thinking brain the same as a lion is trained by a trainer. You have to think your way through this, stop being emotional and fearing loss. Once you have spent a good while reasoning and not feeling, your emotions will follow. That rear view mirror again. Again, don't label yourself as "sexual" and think you've discovered something. You're not using your head, and you obviously have one. What's your IQ? (rhetorical) I'll bet you know it.

BTW, the stuff HAS to go. Your friend is seeking legal help because she is afraid of you. I had a similar experience. Just leave her alone and I'm sure you'll be left alone. She doesn't want to hurt you. My wife isn't as in to this conversation as I am, but she just read through the mail and jumped off her chair when she read Stanley's note. I think she's off writing something back to him.

In my first paragraph I said despicable, and it's true. It's famous that wayward spouses don't feel the degree of remorse that an outsider or a betrayed spouse would expect them to have. Without a doubt, the other person supported the wayward spouse in such a way that will never be forgotten nor unappreciated. CC, in the severance of your extra marital relationship, you don't have to deny anything. But it doesn't change your violation one iota. To the violation, you better apologize from your heart and mean it. Betrayed spouses, all I can say is you will never get your wayward spouse to form harsh feelings for a person that never hurt them and made them feel whole again for a while. It's not one bit fair to you, far from it. I feel 100% rededicated to my wife. If fact we've never been able to communicate like we can now and it's only getting better. But once again, logic prevails... It took communication of our needs to each in order to recover. If my wife would not have listened to me and tried to understand, we would have lost. That doesn't rationalize my affair, we could have and should have communicated our needs before my affair. The affair raises the stakes, and often causes much needed communication of marital problems to become impossible to ignore any longer, unless you flee. For that reason, wayward spouses (maybe Stanley's) may interpret the affair as a good thing. Go figure.