I found out my W is having an A with a MM just over a month ago. During conversations with my W, I have learned that the MM would never leave his family to be with my W because of his moral and family beliefs, some beliefs!

It is my guess that this MM's W is oblivious to problems with her own marriage. I have email's as evidence to convince her that her H was having an A with my W.

Is it wrong for me to break the news to her? I would really like to subscribe to the theory that the suffering of one family does not justify the need for suffering of another family, but my W and the MM are still in communication because they do not want to lose their friendship.

Thank you,
Chris

That's a tough call. If you the OMW what's going on, she may choose to D the husband, which may drive the H and your W closer. On the other hand, If this guy really wants to stay with his W, he may break off contact to rebuild his own M.

Of course, even if you end this A it does not guaruntee your W will not find another. I hope you're both in counciling, because you gotta fix the problem at it's source.

Thanks Rob.

After D-Day, my W spent a week at her mother's to help her decide on whether she wanted me in her live as her H. She decided me as her H was what is best for her and our son.

Because of this decision she made, I am not afraid of him trying to persue my W if his W were to D him. I am more afraid of my W getting upset with me for informing the OMW.

I have spoken (by email) with this MM and I don't get the impression he has learned anything about his own situation from this. I don't believe that he will try to figure out how he can improve his own M.

Unfortunately we are not in coucelling now. My W has been diagnosed with depression and is on medication. She wants to get herself healthy before we try to repair our marriage. Of course it is ok for me to try and meet her EN, which I am trying to do. Dr. Harley is coming to our area in November and I would very much like to attend his seminar with my W then.

It sounds to me that even though there isn't a PA, there is still an EA going on. I don't believe your W is out of the fog yet, and she won't be until she ends contact with the MM. Also, the MM won't have a chance to work on his own relationship until he no longer gets his EN met by your W.

Informing the MMW may be the only way to break contact. Your W may be mad at you, but that may be the only way she can start to recover. It's difficult, if not impossible to fill the EN she needs met while they're being met by someone else.

There was a big discussion from all the very experienced MB'ers on just what Rob has said here not long ago.
The weight of opinion from those who had actually done it was that exposing the A without warning the WW or OM or vice versa did work in killing affairs.
While they are in contact they HAVE NOT ended the A.
Disregarding if the OM's wife should know or not, is there a chance it could push them together? Perhaps, but do you really think its over like it is??...
All they are doing is keeping low while his wife has probably got the idea something was going on.
You read similar things here all the time unfortunately.
I dont think you sound like someone who will enjoy this action of exposure at all. Thats a good way to be beacause the idea behine exposing is not to HURT the OM- much as you may like to & you are not alone there - it is to loosen the bonds the Om has on your W and then use the MB plans to loosen her hold on the OM.
So send the info to the OM's wife, give her your contact number if she wants to talk, refer her to this site too to get assistance for her, and work from each end to kill the affair, even if it has levleled off to an emotional one right now, though you dont really know that.
Please be aware you may find things out you dont want to hear, this is all hell & there is nothing in the short term to do but fight for your M as best you may.
Stick to MB site you will get lots of good practical advice.

Wow, Aussie - you are getting to be an expert!

Chris W - Expose the affair to the other man's wife. That is the quickest way to bring it to an end. And yes, your wife will be very angry. But she will get over it.

Chris: How can you NOT break the news? First of all, wouldn't you want to know if your roles were reversed? Secondly, affairs depend on secrecy. They cannot live without it. By keeping their secret, you are facilitating and participating in their affair. Thirdly, check out this link: Exposure Thread Fourthly, SkepticRob joined the forum this month. Who are you going to believe, him or people who have seen this question asked HUNDREDS of times, and have seen the results? The danger he suggests exists is indeed real - but it almost always works the opposite of what he suggests, and even when it does push them together (as horrible as that sounds), it is usually the beginning of the end of the affair, for reasons you will understand better if you read "Surviving an Affair" - which I suggest you do, with your wife, if possible. The most experienced poster on this board that I know of is Cerri. She is also a very successful marriage coach. She says expose - check out the Plan A links in my signature line. Lastly, Willard Harley says expose - he wrote the book, you know.

Thank you Rob, Aussie, Believe, John, Cerri and any others that can offer their support to me. You have convinced me that I must contact the OMW and tell her.

The unfortunate part is the timing. My W's employer is sending her to Texas this Sunday and she will not return until Friday the 17th. It is possible/probable that my W will come in contact with the MM since they work for the same company. I can only hope he is on a business trip elsewhere, but I'm not counting on it. I think breaking the news to the OMW while my W is physically near the MM would be more of a disaster. Please tell me you agree that I need to wait until my W returns to California.

In early October, my W's employer is hosting a golf tournament. The MM is supposed to come to California to participate. I think it is best for me to contact the OMW after my W comes back from her business trip and before the MM comes for the golf tournament. I hope I can convince the OMW to keep the MM in Texas and off the airplane.

Again, thank you for your experienced advice. I hope you all agree that the timing I think is best is just that and an immediate notice is not necessary.

You need to expose the affair right away. No one wants to do it, but it usually helps to end the affair.

Nope. Don't wait. Tonight is not too soon. Tomorrow in the AM is as late as I could suggest.

You may not realize it yet, but you are in a war. This is no time to be faint-hearted. I cannot promise you that you will be able to save your marriage. You may fail. If you do not act, you WILL fail.

Since his family beliefs are important, maybe you should tell his parents, too.

Beyond that, I would contact him, as well (but tell his wife FIRST, please, because he will try to talk you out of it if you have not already done it.) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A word about confronting the OP, when a WS is unwilling to end an affair on their own, because this question comes up a lot, and many people advise that you avoid confronting the OP, because discussions between BS’s and OP’s tend to be unhelpful and painful for the BS. I do not suggest having much of a discussion. I DO suggest confronting the OP, and also informing the OP’s spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend of what you know, if they have one. If the OP’s spouse/friend is likely to be violent, you may want to hold off on that exposure, but that is the only exception I know of, other than a message from God.

The confrontation of the OP is fairly important, and should be worded carefully. Given the emotional state you are probably in right after you learn of an affair, that usually means doing it by letter or email, or maybe a phone call. I do not recommend direct confrontations because of the strong temptation you may have to become physically violent.

Whatever method you use to communicate, say something like: “I love [spouse], and am trying to fix what is wrong with our marriage. I believe your relationship with [spouse] is interfering with our efforts to fix our marriage, and I would appreciate it if you would cease all contact with [spouse].” If you are CERTAIN it is a physical affair, you can use the word “affair”, instead of “relationship”. If you have children, you may also say that the OP is contributing to the destruction of a family.

They may laugh at you, but it is important to send that message, respectfully, for several reasons:

1. Because the OP may not know the WS is married. If that is the case, confronting the OP sometimes leads immediately to the end of the affair.
2. Because WS’s usually (almost always?) depict their spouse in a negative way to the OP. They say things like: “My wife doesn’t understand me” or “My husband won’t talk to me”, “My spouse is unconcerned about me and/or our marriage” or “We have an open relationship”, or something worse – you are crazy, controlling, cruel, etc. So, you need to confront the OP in a way that shows you at your best – not crazy, not unconcerned, not controlling, not angry, but rather calm, kind, purposeful, determined and concerned for your spouse and your relationship with them. When you do that, it introduces conflict into their relationship, because there is a conflict between what the OP experiences, and what they have been told.
3. Many WS’s and OP’s minimize the seriousness of their affairs with rationalizations like: “It’s only physical”, or, in the case of an Emotional Affair, “It’s just a close friendship” and “It’s not physical.” The language I have suggested avoids giving them a point to argue, and simply says it is hurting you.
4. In most cases, affairs grow in secret, and they die when exposed.


Remember that affairs are addictions. What happens when you try to take away an addict's fix? Frequently, they get angry. It is fairly common for a WS to get EXTREMELY angry when you expose their affair and confront the OP, and accuse you of trying to destroy them and your marriage and of being a horrible human being, so be prepared for an angry response. It is not a lovebuster, it is fighting for your marriage. You are doing nothing horrible. They are. You are fighting to save your marriage. They are destroying it. You are telling the truth. They are being deceitful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, yeah, she will also curse you out for causing the OM's W pain - forgetting that it is what she and the OM are doing that are REALLY causing the pain.

<small>[ September 09, 2004, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

A rather interesting series of events occurred this morning. I asked my W is she was going to see the MM on her upcoming trip. She told me that she would so I replied by asking her if she agrees that I need to do what is in the best interest for me. That is currently her policy for herself right now, I know it is her Taker doing the talking. She agreed that I should then she asked me what that was.

I told her that the OMW was going to find out and I was going to tell her. As you all predicted, this did not sit well with her. It did not become a fight and she told me later that she was not angry or mad at me. We had a very calm discussion and I told her that the resentment will never go away and I will never be able to heal as long as my W and the MM are still in contact with each other.

As she said she would, she contacted the MM on her way into work this morning to warn him about my plans to break the news to the OMW and to tell him that I did not want my W and the MM to contact each other anymore.

The MM told my W that the OMW already knew about the A. I guess the OMW found an email also, however since she has not been enlightened by the resources of MB, it does not sound like she has the same passion as I do to fight for my marriage. I guess the OMW has accepted it which probably makes it more difficult for my W and the MM to break all communication. The MM made no comment on breaking all communication with my W.

My W was troubled that the MM had not shared the information about the OMW knowing of the A. Perhaps this is the beginning of the natural death of the A. My W told me this morning after talking to the MM. I don't think my W sees the A as an addiction, it is just a "friendship" to her. Before she talked to the MM this morning, I think she would have been willing to sacrifice our marriage for this "friendship", but now that the MM has deceived my W, I think she recognizes that and may now realize the value of our marriage compared to the "friendship".

So I have not contacted the OMW yet. I do suspect the MM made up the story about his W knowing just so I wouldn't contact her. It is clear to me now that your advice was the correct thing for me to do and I thank you all for your support.

Yes Chris you have hit the nail on the head. The OMW probably does not know, however you should not delay sending this info as I reckon the OM is already working on his wife about a 'crazy man who reckons he is having an affair with his wife at work or whatever" .

The more you delay the more lies they will think up. Also I have to tell you not to entirely trust your wife right now in regards to this issue. It is not unusal for the ww & OM to make up a whole set of lies about this. It has even been know for the WW to contact the OMW and ABSOLUTLY deny the affair & say her H is a crazy who she is leaving etc etc etc....

your ww may be telling the truth or may not, thats the trouble, until she is a former ww you cannot afford to trust her on such issues. I know thats a hard pill to swallow, I'm having trouble with it as well, but everything I have seen here backs that up.

Just tell OMW...no more delays,,,its hurting your M in the long term

Chris W,

Dude, of course the OM made it up. OR you W made it up!!

Sometimes the WS will protect the OP at all costs.

And if the OM's W does know, at least you can confirm it.

That is what happens when the WS is informed of the decision to tell the OP's spouse.

AND...he is now telling his W that some crazy jealous man is going to contact you with some insane story that I, of all people, am having an affair!! Can you belive it?? SO WHEN HE CALLS OR EMAILS SOMETHING TO YOU, JUST HANG UP OR IGNORE THE EMAIL.

Gotta do it though.
k

Now, when you do it......make sure to mention that you mistakenly warned the A couple of your plans so you are sure she already has been prepped.

Then tell her what you know and hopefully she will clearly hear you somehow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do suspect the MM made up the story about his W knowing just so I wouldn't contact her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Soooo... why haven't you told her yet? Do not trust the affair to die on its own. Act now!

I have tried to call the OMW twice and both times got an answering machine. I did not leave a message since I am uncertain that I have the correct phone number.

The MM told my W that his W knows of the A and has accepted it and accepts a "friendship" between my W and the MM. If this is true, I do not expect to get any support from the OMW on keeping the two of them apart. I fear that her definition of marriage is different than mine or she may have the opinion that as long as her definition of marriage isn't affected, she isn't concerned about how the A affects my marriage. I will try to contact her again this week.

My W left for Texas today and will not return until Friday. It was very emotional to see her go. She will see the MM on Thursday or Friday. I have told my W that if she does not break all contact with the MM when she returns on Friday, Plan B will begin. I believe my W sees that as a play of control instead of fighting for my marriage.

We had an incident about 8 years ago where my W wanted me to give up a female friend for our marriage and I wouldn't do it. My female friend and I were never in love and there was no A, but my wife viewed her as a threat. She is now using that as an excuse to keep her relationship with the MM on-going. She does not see the difference that I was in never in love and she is. I believe for her this is about control and when she returns on Friday, she will see if I am bluffing instead of breaking all contact with the MM.

Again everyone, your support means alot to me. Thank you for helping me get through this.

Almost forgot,

My W let me read an e-mail from the MM yesterday. Does anyone know of any "friendships" that end their e-mails, "I love you unconditionally"? I asked her how she signs her emails to him and she said that she can't remember the last time she told him that she loved him, but she has since I found out about the A. Does that sound like a "friendship"?

Also, does anyone want to try and explain to me how the MM can love my wife unconditionally if he is unwilling to leave his own family for her? It seems to me that he is telling my W that he loves her but he won't leave his family for her. That sounds like a condition to me.

Chris

I was wondering how are you going to Plan b while living together? Just that I am new and was puzzled by this sort of plan b

Harley says Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to a plan for recovery.e.g NC etcetc

Does that mean you are going to ask her to move out or are you going to move out or is this a type of modified Plan B?
I wondered how you were going to do this?

I don't think asking her to move out is the correct thing to do for me or anyone else who opts for Plan B. If she refuses, I am certainly not going to force her out (big time LB in my opinion). It is I who must show her that I am not bluffing and walk away until all contact with the MM has ended.

If she does choose to end all contact with him, can anyone enlighten me on how I can expect her to react when I ask for her passwords to her email? I also am going to suggest she get a new cell phone with a new number so he cannot text message her anymore. I know none of you know my W but I thought some of you might have been down this path already. I expect her to throw the word "control" out there again and "I'm treating her like a child". This is how the addiction must be broken.

I think this week I'll be working on a letter for my W to send to the MM. Dr. Harley suggested a letter on how an A should end. This way to be perfectly clear to everyone, she will send it to him and copy me on it so there is no misunderstanding that the A is OVER!

Thought that may be the options.
Asking her to move out itself is not a LB from what I have read here as long as you are calm and tell her why, how, offer the MB recovery plan again etc even if you have said it all before.
However I agree, unless it is a legal action of some sort, dont force her out like throwing her stuff out the door changing locks etc... there are legal problems doing that so better to stay away from that as well as the LBs of course in my opinion.

Also keep the exposure thing going. I still will be surprised if the OMW knows, but I suppose its possible. Of course it may depend on what she knows too.

I think from your post she is of the opinion that 'good ol Chris' ain't goin anywhere, I can do much like I want.. ww thinking ...a classic fog reaction I reckon.

Remember, if you go to plan B dont give in to the temptation of contacting her unless she contacts you & says she is will to do the whole 9 yards.. NC, MB plan to rebuild M, counselling etc

Be gentle , be firm, and its so much easier to advise people this than do it. Good luck for Friday.