Chris,

Sorry to hear about your situation. You seem very level headed yet passionate about your determination. I wanted to reinforce what the others were saying about telling the MMW. She either doesn't really know, or knows a sanitized scaled back version (admitting that something happened but only once, long time ago, etc), or accepts it because she is doing it too (or has) or feels financially stuck. However, chances are it's one of the first two (doesn't really know or knows a scaled down version). If she knew and was considering telling you, you'd want to know. She could interrupt you at work, church, family holiday or whatever and you wouldn't care because you want/need to know. You should act the same. Call her workplace or find her through one of her friends/family. It's that urgent. You will probably not want to drop it on her until an appropriate time but you can at least establish contact. The best way to fight the fact that you may have been described as something your not, in my opinion, is to try to convince her that it is you two who have something in common here and that you two will need to be a team to bring this to an end. It will be hard for her to see you in a negative light if you make her think that she has things in common with you or else that would reflect badly on her. By the way, my D-day was 3/1/01. We're doing great now. Reconnecting really is worth it if you can make it work. Good luck. Keep us posted.

Chris,

Sorry to hear about your situation. You seem very level headed yet passionate about your determination. I wanted to reinforce what the others were saying about telling the MMW. She either doesn't really know, or knows a sanitized scaled back version (admitting that something happened but only once, long time ago, etc), or accepts it because she is doing it too (or has) or feels financially stuck. However, chances are it's one of the first two (doesn't really know or knows a scaled down version). If she knew and was considering telling you, you'd want to know. She could interrupt you at work, church, family holiday or whatever and you wouldn't care because you want/need to know. You should act the same. Call her workplace or find her through one of her friends/family. It's that urgent. You will probably not want to drop it on her until an appropriate time but you can at least establish contact. The best way to fight the fact that you may have been described as something your not, in my opinion, is to try to convince her that it is you two who have something in common here and that you two will need to be a team to bring this to an end. It will be hard for her to see you in a negative light if you make her think that she has things in common with you or else that would reflect badly on her. By the way, my D-day was 3/1/01. We're doing great now. Reconnecting really is worth it if you can make it work. Good luck. Keep us posted.

Because I have previously contacted the MM via email, he has my email address. As I said before, I tried to call the OMW a couple times and got an answering machine. Since I wasn't positive that I had the right number, I didn't leave a message.

Tonight I got an email from the OMW. She copied the MM and my W on the email.

Subject: caller ID...next time leave a message

Mr W,
I already know EVERYTHING. xxx-xxx-xxxx (cell)
Mrs. OMW

I replied saying that if she already knew everything, she knew more than me and the reason I didn't leave a message. After figuring out that I called using their caller ID, I suspect the MM gave his W my email address. My reply also went to my W and the MM.

I was surprised to get this email, it upset me for a bit so I called my W in Texas and asked if she had checked her email. I told her about the email and my reply. My W didn't really have an answer as to why she would contact me. I asked my W what she would do if the MM wanted her to meet his W while she is in Texas. My W said she would if the MM thought it would help him and his W. Is it just me or is that crazy? I would take it as the MM is trying to welcome my W to their life, make her feel comfortable. This is of course assuming that the OMW will accept an on-going relationship between my W and the MM.

My W and I had a discussion about my intent to move to Plan B if she elected to continue her relationship with the MM. I told her that I wrote my Plan B love letter. I thought I would be too crushed to write it on Friday when I would be trying to leave so I had to pre-write it and predict how I would actually be feeling. I get the feeling that Thursday will be the day she says goodbye to the MM for good. She would not commit to this tonight.

I asked my wife this, If someone were to definately confirm that whenever I drink chocolate milk, I am addicted to chocolate milk, I become violent and abusive toward my W and DS, wouldn't you (my W) do everything you could to keep me from drinking chocolate milk? She said yes, so I said that is the same thing I am trying to do. I think she got my point but she did say it sounded like a trick question.

It hasn't come up before, but I do have to learn to control my temper and I have had acts of violence inside my home. If I had only read LB and HNHN sooner. However, the MM is coming to California on Oct 4 to participate in a company golf tournament that my W is also in. They are on the same team. I don't particulary like my 4 iron so I'm thinking if I could have one final act of violence, I'd like to send the MM home with my 4 iron in one ear and out the other.

Let's see what happens tomorrow morning.

Chris - why do you believe the e-mail came from OMW and not OM?

Call the cell number. Speak to OMW. Until you do, you cannot not be sure OMW knows anything.

DO NOT tell your wife of any further plans you have for contacting OMW.

DO NOT even THINK about Plan B until your wife has left your home. Plan B under the same roof is impossible.

DO NOT think of your wife as a rational person for the time being. Believe none of what she says and only half of what you see.

Worthatry -

If I suspected the email was fake and conjured up by the MM, why would he give me his W's actual cell phone number? If he would go as far as send me a fake email, wouldn't he also cover himself as to give me a cell phone number of a female friend and ask her to expect a call from me and pretend to be his W and play the part.

Of course that would mean he would have to reveal the A to another person and involve them. Man I'm starting to see the web of lies and deceit that A create.

I do believe the phone number I have is the correct home number and the email did actually come from the OMW and the cell number is correct.

Now today's news:
I have learned the MM has no sense of humor. I guess reading that I would like to give him my 4-iron as an accessory to his wardrobe can do that to anyone, especially a man who is involved in an A with my W. It seems that my W has given the MM a link to this thread and he read it today then sent me an email, a couple actually.

It was extremely lengthy otherwise I would just copy and paste it here. He choose not to send it to my W because "you don't care what she thinks. And if you are right, I have no need to spare your feelings because you will be kind and gentle toward (my W) and only want to hurt me because I am a terrible person... from your extremely narrow view."

He suggests that I still have no idea of the physical and emotional damage I have done to my W because of my uncontrolled temper and violent behavior. He suggests that I give everyone here a full account of my actions. Well, since my W is more qualified at letting me and anyone else she wants to tell how I physically and emotionally affected her, I will let her do that.

Because of my golf club comment, he tells me that he doesn't see that I have changed and I haven't realized that my W has seen great change. Whew, he almost had me convinced that I was changing for him and doing a bad job at it. Doesn't he understand that I really don't care what he thinks of me?

He goes on:

"Hmmm ...Found out about a relationship... let's hurt (my W) by telling everyone.
Hmmm... can't get (MM)-the-friend out ... Let's hurt him by call his wife.
Hmmm....My forum is not helping me get rid of MM... let's crack his skull with a golf club. (I hope that stays online in the event something does happen, the US legal system is a wonderful thing)."

The US legal system is a wonderful thing and he must think I don't have a brain to incriminate myself by making a statement like that and carrying it out. Besides, my days of violent behavior toward anybody are gone. I do not want to be that man anymore. Perhaps he is so intent on keeping me and my W apart, that he will get someone to "crack his skull with a golf club" and find someway to pin it on me because of this comment. Guess I better start keeping a log of where I am at all times. My W has heard me make this comment about the golf club before and I thought she believed me that I wouldn't actually carry it out. Turns out that after reading that statement this morning, my W asked the MM to not come out for the golf tournament in October. Looks like I am the only one who believes my days of violent behavior are gone.

"Again, I will do what (my W) asks of me. I have had many long talks with my wife and she agrees with our approach. She does want to meet (my W) to look her in the eye and see if what I have told her is the truth ( I am being scrutinized too ). I was even contemplating a meeting with you to try to convince you I am not an obstruction, but I will decline at this point based on your web message."

His approach is called Plan H. "Healing or Helping your forum might call it, 1. step back, 2. be supportive of each other 3. We BOTH fix our home lives at a controlled pace. Three out of the four parties involved here are willing and have been doing that... what are you affraid of?"

He and his W are entitled to their approach and my W and I are entitled to ours. If we weren't in different states, I think he might suggest that we go on double dates with our W's.

I now know that he has been introduced to MB, maybe he even had his W read my earlier post. I can only hope that they investigate the MB web site more and gain the insight I have on how A's must end and what they can do for each other to "fix their own lives at their controlled pace". When I was reading the Basic Concepts, HNHN, LB and some of the Q&A articles, so many of them paralleled my own situation that these steps to rebuilding our love for each other made perfect sense. If the MM and the OMW have lost their love for each other and want to get it back, I would direct them to MB in a heartbeat.

Your support is always welcome and MB has been terrific for me during the worst time of my life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris W:
<strong>If I suspected the email was fake and conjured up by the MM, why would he give me his W's actual cell phone number? If he would go as far as send me a fake email, wouldn't he also cover himself as to give me a cell phone number of a female friend and ask her to expect a call from me and pretend to be his W and play the part.

Of course that would mean he would have to reveal the A to another person and involve them. Man I'm starting to see the web of lies and deceit that A create. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you called the cell yet?

Do NOT underestimate the desperate creativity of cheaters trying to keep their secrets.

I hope OM is reading this: Why are you afraid of your affair becoming known? Aren't you proud of it? Why not bring it out into the open for all to see and assess on their own?

Chris - what's the full truth about your "uncontrolled temper and violent behavior"?

We are well aware that infidels re-write history and exaggerate their spouses faults - and their affair partners believe every bit of it because it helps them rationalize their behavior. "Because Chris has such 'uncontrolled temper and violent behavior' it's OK and necessary for me (OM) to betray my wife and boink his." Nonetheless, sometimes there's some truth behind the revisionist history.

Assuming OM rationale is just that - rationale - he's following the WS script perfectly. An attacking offense is the best defense. He's pond scum that cannot defend his actions without accusing you. That won't work for anyone but the infidels. Ignore his logic and expose the affair to any one who may be of influence as soon as possible.

OM - why don't you give YOUR side of the story right here and let impartial people assess it? Address it to me personally - I don't own any golf bats.

My story of my uncontrolled temper and violent behavior.

I dated my W for 4 years prior to our M. We have been M for over 8 years, number 9 is in January. In those 12+ years, my W can remember 3 incidents of physical abuse. That is 3 times too many, I now recognize that. Please, when I say she can remember, that doesn't mean that I have beaten her to a pulp so she couldn't remember things. That's the humorous side of me, I'm very glad to say that I'm getting that part of me back.

One of the 3 was a slap on the face and the other 2 were episodes of pushing or escorting her by her arm so she would physically be in a place (couch, chair, bed, etc.) that I wanted her to be so I could argue/yell at her. None of these episodes of physical abuse involved the police, no bones were broken, no visits to the emergency room and none of them ended with me coming to grips with what I was physically and emotionallly doing to my W. One of the "escort" episodes actually ocurred in front of our son and even that didn't wake me up to what I was doing.

As for the emotional abuse, I couldn't tell you when that actually started. I would take a guess and say that it began 8 years ago when my W asked me to give up my friendship with OW and I told her that I wouldn't do it. You now see where she gets some of her ammo on defending her relationship with MM. If I didn't do it then, why should she do it now?

The OW and I have never been in love nor will we ever. We don't sign emails "I love you unconditionally". We have been friends for 10 years and for awhile my W was her friend, we all worked at the same company. The OWH suspected an A after reading an email I sent her and 8 years later, he still brings it up. He can't let go. I read "Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
Overcoming Resentment" and immediately thought of my friend and her H. Today I know that if my W had made me choose my friendship with OW instead of my marriage, it would have been the worst decision of my life. Today I would gladly give up my friendship with OW for my W. Today I know that my M and my W and DS are the most important things to me.

So for many years now my W and I have slowly stopped meeting each other's EN, although at the time we had no idea what an EN was. Over a year ago the MM stepped in because he thought my W needed someone to talk to. She opened up to him and as I continued to make withdrawls from my account in her Love Bank, he began making deposits.

After D-Day, my W told me that at some point, she and the MM sensed where their relationship was going and decided it was best to step back. I don't know how long this period lasted, but not long enough. They resumed the "natural progression" of their relationship until D-Day. My W has used the term natural progression.

Within 24 hours after D-Day I realized the damage I had caused by my own abuse, I put an end to it immediately and promised myself, my W and my MIL that it would not happen again. Now, because I am trying to meet my W's EN, we haven't had any real fights where I thought I would lose my temper and burst. I told my W that I cannot practice controlling my temper unless something happens to make me lose it. Personally, if I never have to test it, that is fine with me. I have asked her to be honest with me (my #4 EN) even if she thinks it will hurt my feelings. Sometimes she has been good at this and sometimes she hasn't.

I make the point above about my violent behavior in my house because my problem does not occur outside of my home. Anyone who knows me would be shocked if they knew I had been physically abusive to my W. When I recognized this, I gave my W the following advice: "If you think that something you are going to tell me might make me lose my temper or become violent, let's take it somewhere in public." I am very afraid of jail, my dad is a retired policeman, and have zero desire to become a resident in a county jail or state prison. So I certainly would be able to control myself while in public. Then we both would stay in public until we agreed that I was calm and she felt safe. That is our current plan for me controlling my anger. I have to believe that on the scale of W abusers, I am near the bottom, still, I'd rather be off the scale than near the bottom.

Yes, I have many faults and I am trying to correct them everyday. Our DS has tested my patience a few times since D-Day and I think I have passed. I have stopped letting him get me hyped up and I just tell him that I am not going to argue with him and I just look at him. A couple times I've had to act as a door to keep him in his room after he did something bad. Eventually he gets tired of trying to get through me and we start laughing and then he lays down and takes a nap.

I firmly believe that our DS has also changed since D-Day and I think my W sees it too. Our DS now sees his dad respect his mother, care for his mother and express love toward his mother. All these things he most likely has never seen or has no memory of, he IS only 5. "Lead by example", I would much rather have my DS learn from me how to respect, care and love women instead of disrespect, abuse and control women.

If I can get my W to throw her 2 cents in I will. Of course the MM is also welcome to add his input if I have not been clear enough or left out some details that my W let him know about.

I am happy to provide the following update. Today is day 222 since D-Day. My W and I have been in marriage therapy for several months now. Several times we have gotten off topic from the A but we keep taking steps forward. Her job continues to ask her to travel on occasion so she has missed a few sessions. She has not been in Texas since September but is expecting to have to go possibly in the next 60 days.

Our most recent conflict has been the need for connection. I have learned in therapy that during the first years of our marriage, I "conditioned" my W not to expect an emotional connection from me. Eventually she expected this and is now saying that her need for connection with me is minimal. Meanwhile, because of my wake up call, I now know how good it feels to be connected with my W and have a need for that feeling often. Why wouldn't someone want to be connected with their spouse often?

Thanks again to all the support from MB!

Chris

Don't you find it interesting that she does NOT feel she is 'addicted' but she cannot stop contacting him, although you have stated that it is hurting you when she does? Have her go for a week of no contact and then have her tell you how she is feeling.

She is addicted and she knows it. She just doesn't want to admit it because then she would have to address it. Isn't that what addicts do...deny, deny, deny.

Talk to OMW NOW. She needs to know what you know about contact. You need to know what she knows about contact. She will need your evidence.

God Bless,

JL

Chris
how are you mate? Been a long while I was deployed for a while in Iraq so lost trace of how things were going with you.

I note your last post and see you have been going to MC but I wondered if your wife is in contact with OM still?

If there is ANY contact you should tell OMW without delay.
You see if she is speaking to him at work its probably undoing all the good of the MC, has ther been progress or is it stalled.
If its stalled then contact is almost a certain bet.

How are you handling the anger? The images etc. Big issue for me and now I'm looking at another deployment so I'm a bit all over the place with trust issues and this stuff,

Anyhow, let us know how you are going and whats new.

cheers mate

Don't confuse informing the other spouse (which can be justified on the basis of exposure to life threatening disaease, for example) with dealing with your spouse directly.

Sometimes people look to others to force the situation, like the other offended spouse to go ballistic.

My observation is that people who have affairs may be wonderful in many areas, which is why so many of us here express love for a wandering spouse, but the reality, in my opinion, is that their flaws are so great as to really make them unsuitable as spouses.

We just have trouble facing the reality because we have an emotional attachment to them.

Inform the other spouse because they have a right to know their partner is promiscuous (sp) - not because it will make your situation better. Yopur spouse will be the same person regardless.