He tells me he loves me. He tells me he's been having an affair for 2 years. I am dumbfounded. We were on vacation, had been looking forward to it. SHE found out he was with me and became upset with him. He flew home to console her, telling me he had to do a quick business meeting, yes in the middle of our vaca..he had previously set the trip up - whether it was real or not, yet another issue..he is really good. He recently landed a job that has tons of travel...not as much as I have been lead to believe. Any way, we have been taking courses (hard for him, since he works out of state) to get our foster-adopt license. I thought we were building a wonderful life. I thought our foundation was solid. I thought we were working towards a common goal. He was, but he was doing it dually. Anyway, She found out he was with me on vacation, apparently he had told her over 2 years ago that we were getting divorced, so perhaps we are divorced by now...I of course have no idea of this. Here and there along the way I now have some solid plugs for so many many holes in my life. None of which really clued me in completely. There were a couple of times I thought something might be going on, but it really only was a 'feeling' and I did ask him point blank. He of course denied it and consoled me, which again at the time I wondered why he didn’t get mad at me for even thinking it. He told me he keeps clothes at her house, he has his motorcycle there as well. I asked if he was paying rent, of course – denied. I have done some snooping, and he indeed does pay her rent. He has a separate checking and savings with additional monies being deposited in them. I have not searched long enough to find out where it is all coming from. We do have a personal savings with a substantial amount of money in it….one of my two questions today is…
1. Do I move the money to a safe place? Knowing he will blow up
2. Do I change the locks on my doors? I felt last night that he could come in and out anytime – it made me feel very uncomfortable.

I know both of these discussions are large and will cause repercussions. I am not concerned for my safety, he is not violent I just don’t know exactly what it may push him to do next.

I should tell you, unfortunately this is a reoccurring condition. I was the OW 8 years ago…not to this extent. I was told he would be divorced within a few weeks.


Me FS
H WS
Married 7 years, together 8
No children
D-Day: 09/09/04
Dated H when he was still married, he lied and said he was divorced

We do have a personal savings with a substantial amount of money in it….one of my two questions today is…
1. Do I move the money to a safe place? Knowing he will blow up

Yes.... move the money, but don't touch it after the move to a safe place


2. Do I change the locks on my doors? I felt last night that he could come in and out anytime – it made me feel very uncomfortable.

Change the locks if doing that will increase YOUR level of comfort and feeling safe.

You are allowed to protect yourself...

financially
emotionally
physically
spiritually

I know both of these discussions are large and will cause repercussions.

Repercussions are GOOD!

Repercussions speak of the enormity of the betrayal.

I am not concerned for my safety, he is not violent

Good to know

I just don’t know exactly what it may push him to do next.

You are protecting yourself in any way necessary , because of his betrayal....

He owns his emotional responses right now. If he is angry or otherwise upset.... so be it.


I should tell you, unfortunately this is a reoccurring condition. I was the OW 8 years ago…not to this extent. I was told he would be divorced within a few weeks.

Did you discuss this with the current OW?

I usually don't recommend wife-to-OW conversations .... but in this case, it may be helpful to both of you.

I would tell her that you have been ~exactly~ where she is now....

WELCOME TO MB

Your MB friend "Jo" is watching out for you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep

Hi,

I posted to you on the other thread then realized this one has all the info. Oops! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Anyways, go the routine and get yourself w/some good counseling. I recommend a call to Steve on Monday to setup a call for you.

Now after all this 'confession' on his part, what do you know about him and the OW? She is able to pull his strings because........?

L.

InFaith,

I am sorry you here. I do agree with Pep, please call the OW and let her know your situation and that he has done this before.

I would also get to work on exposing this affair to yours, his family and your friends. The more exposure, the more uncomfortable he will be. I know it seems counterintuitive, but it is probably one of the best steps you can take to hasten the end of the affair. The reason is because it will force your H to have to explain his affair to people. It allows him to see how sleazy it is, through the eyes of others and bursts the fantasy aspect. An affair doesn't survive well in the light of day.

I would also suggest getting the book Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley. You can order it off this website and get cheap, fast shipping.

Faith,

Books have been sent. You'll receive them approx Tuesday, 9/14.

Also, go look at the GQII board. I inquired about tracking on-line flights and a member, thanks Cymanca, placed a link to a search engine for it. But it looks as though you are limited in searching by solely flight number. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Love you,
Jo

Infaith: You may not believe this, but it may be possible to actually come out of this with a healthy marriage...to him. There are no guarantees, of course, but it may be possible, unlikely as that may seem to you now.

You know folks, I'm not sure "Survivng an Affair" is the right book for this woman right now. Yes it's the best book on the subject for most people, BUT this is clearly a "Double Life Man Affair" as described in "The State of Affairs" by Todd Mulliken. Todd was our marriage counselor, and he said that for that type of affair, unmet emotional needs are an insignificant part of the problem in most cases, and unmet emotional needs is a primary focus of SAA. Secondly, SAA really has Harley's old thinking on Plan A/Plan B - what I might call the "kinder, gentler" Plan A. His current counsel, as heard on his radio show every week, is more confrontational, and more consistent with the advice on exposure Infaith has received here. So, while Harley's paath to affair recovery may indeed be the best one available in print, I think it would be helpful to Infaith to read Mulliken's book first, so she doesn't get too sidetracked down the "unmet emotional needs" road when she reads Harley. Unmet EN's are a factor, yes, but for this type of affair, they are not the major issue, and no one has time to waste on anything less than the most important issues at this point.

Beyond that, click on the link in my signature line. The Plan A links in that link also take a very strong position on not being doormat.

Welcome Infaith - I ditto the recommendation to communicate with OW. Assume she is a hapless victim like yourself. Trade stories and see what he's been telling her. Betcha he's still walking both sides of the street. How do you know he's not a Daddy with her?

What is your H's attitude right now? Defiant or humble? If he's humble, why do you think it's genuine?

I strongly recommend you secure one half of all your jointly held liquid assets ASAP. If you have jointly held investments in stocks or mutual funds, consider cashing out half and secure in a separate account.

Please describe your home situation, rent or own? Jointly held?

How old are you?

Can you be financially self sufficient?

Please describe his close family and your relationship with them. This is to assess exposure opportunities.

Jo is an excellent resource, it's clear she cares for you deeply.

I think johnh39's post makes a lot of sense.

C & P from other post, authored by InFaith in repsonse to WAT and Pep:

______________________________________

Worthatry: Please read about the OW previously posted. She does know. She is the reason I know. I have a home-business and sent a blanket email out announcing I was on a badly needed vacation with my hubby, be back soon. One, two or three or more of my clients know her. They obviously know about her and more about me than I even know. It is my belief that this is what happened: She went ballistic. Tuesday evening H got very sick. Said he thought it may be food poisoning, and was in and out of our room “getting air” several times in the night. (Of course I know now that he was trying to do damage control – he told me Thursday that she threatened to shoot herself, so far I can only presume what is real). I do believe that she is mainly a hapless victim like me; the exception is I believe SHE knew US before knowing HIM.

H’s Attitude: During the CTL he remained humble, no defiance. He said “I have destroyed 3 lives” “how could I have done this to us?” “I will tell you EVERYTHING; I will not lie to you”. I think he is genuinely sorry, don’t know if it is because he has hurt me or because it is out. He is a habitual liar.

Home Situation: Purchased home 6/01 jointly.

I am 43 years young. I CAN be financially self sufficient. At present I have given up my FT job, in preparation for having children. H and I just went through a foster-adopt program and are on our way to get our license. We have gone through infertility programs 2000 and were really close in 2002 to adopting 2 separate babies BD of 6/02 and 12/02. (I have just had a revealing moment: he states that he started seeing her around 8/02). I started my home business 8/01, Quit FT job 12/03 for a few reasons – he was spending quite a bit of money on his motorcycle, which I felt that is where my paychecks were going, the office environment I was in was awful (at this point, I may or may not be right about that, it may have been my home life that was in shambles – I just did not know it), I was doing my home business at night & weekends, I was tired. Started waiting tables – short lunch shifts to supplement income and free up my time to build my business.

I don’t know that he doesn’t have a child with her…THAT would probably push me over completely. She does have a son around 3 or 4. I think there are more kids, but they are not with her. Reasons unknown, to date.

His family: His mother is my director in my home business. I AM one of her 4 daughters, we travel, share rooms and beds together. It is a great relationship and at times I feel closer to his family than the one I grew up in. His dad loves me as a daughter as well. We have built an incredible relationship. His 3 sisters are all very kind, gentle, spiritual women – there husbands the same. One has 3 boys, another has a son and a new daughter, the other was recently married. Grandparents on both sides are very spiritual and I have been blessed over the years to have gotten to know them and learn from them. His mom and dad are also very spiritual. They really raised their children in the right manner. I guess everyone gets a black sheep?

I told one of my 2 sisters and my parents the story last night. I intend to talk to his parents today sometime, if possible.

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

C & P'd for InFaith so we have one thread with all posts. Authored by InFaith:

____________________________________

My story..continued. First of all, thank you Jo for being here so completely for me. I could not have gotten to today without you. Thank you all of you MB members for your kind, intelligent responses – you are keeping me calm in this horrific storm. Your strength is incredible…I would not continue to have mine with out you. I know there is a long road ahead. I am dreading it. This is incredible to have all of YOUR extended thinking processes to help guide me through this awful time – I feel incredibly blessed with all of you by my side.

In answer to some questions you have had:

Pepperband, you asked if I have spoken with OW. Sort of.
THE OW: 3 years ago we moved into town. We spent some time in the local Karaoke bar. My husband sings very well. The Karaoke coordinator is the OW. My husband soon after we began going into this place, was asked to bartend (on the side – he, at the time worked a well paid FT job, in town) – He used to own a restaurant and this was a fun outlet for him. So he started working a few evenings a month. I need to go back and find out exactly WHEN he started…it is on my "to-do" list. ALL of last year 2003..he worked there A LOT. I did not like it and mentioned it to him on numerous occasions. I was asked (looking back, I was told) that I should not come into the bar where he worked, because he was too busy to chat with me, and it would make him sad (something to that effect). I also was told to not call there, only his cell phone – the reason was it was hard to hear on the phone. I did go in a few times with friends – and yes he was uncomfortable, which of course I did not understand. One time I went in and SHE glared at me as though I had GALL to even come in there. She had always been very nice to me, when he and I went in together. He worked some holidays – particularly New Years Eve, many days that I just did not understand. I also never really saw a paycheck, I did ask him about it - I guess he probably lovingly & kindly blew-me-off. I insisted that he quit at the beginning of the year. I am sure I will learn more about WHY he really changed his primary job. He did this in January 2004. He took on a position that now has him traveling out of state every week. In the first month, he did not travel. Soon after, he was home very little.
Back to the OW: He has told me that she has been in the dark too. That NONE of this is her fault. He told her we were getting a D…Man what a blowing shock to me! There are just so many things I am figuring out. While he and I were on vacation this past week, a badly needed one for us to be together, for us to re-new, for him to relax because this new job has been so chaotic with all of the travel – he really hated that! Yeah, right. He had to fly out to another state “to save their biggest account”…he really flew home to her, because she found out that he was with me. When he returned the next day…I got the news. Many things were revealed, but back to the point…at one time he came into the room with his cell phone and said to me “OW is on the phone, she would like to talk to you”. I could not believe it. I told him how insulting that was, BUT took the phone for the opportunity to arrange a meeting with her…I do not know her number, but figured I could figure it out. She said to me “I did not know you were still married” and I said to her “I did not know about you”. I asked her if we could get together to talk…she was surprised I was willing to do that (me too!). I said “wouldn’t you like to figure out what our lives were like the past couple of years?” She agreed to call me. Hasn’t yet, but I suspect she will by Monday-Tuesday, as H (I think) needs to go to a business meeting this week in FL. He went to her side Friday night after he brought me home. He said after he talked with her, he would be taking a couple of days alone to “think this through”. If she does not contact me, it is my intent to find her.

Again, this is exactly how he and I got together 8 years ago. His past wife had tried to talk to me (she came to my work with her dad), I called him and we both sat with her. Of course, I had the story of her, told by him.

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">InFaith wrote:
I intend to talk to his parents today sometime, if possible.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Infaith,

I bumped up the "EXPOSURE" posts on GQII board for you to read and prepare for exposing to your in-laws.

I know that this will probably be harder for you than it was to expose it your your parents because you are so very close to your in-laws.

Because you are such a sweet natured giving person, and because your H knows that about you, he will not expect you to tell them.

So reading about what others have experienced during exposure and reading the "compelling reasons why you should" by WAT are very important.

Love,
Jo

There's no way you cannot tell all to his family. I'm glad to read you intend to do this. Do it in a loving and compassionate way.

This guy has very serious problems. Before there is any hope of him straightening himself out, he has to have a real epiphany - his family coming down on him may do the trick. Maybe not.

You're young and have no kids. Dumping this creep may be the best answer for you. The extent and duration of his lies may reasonably prevent you from ever trusting him, even if he does become "human."

JMHO

WAT

I'll add that you should specify to him that nothing is possible for your continued relationship unless he gets into counseling. Who knows what's going on in that brain?

If he is really humble - although I bet he can fake that rather well - and willing to get his head examined, maybe there can be something to hope for.

WAT

I have just committed to telling them. I called, they are not home now, but they will call me back. It is possible that H is with them now, it's also possibly he is with OW.

Thank you so much for so much support. I don't hold a lot of hope that this is reconcilable. I am trying to keep an open mind. Did I mention that he went to Vegas and THEY both got tattoos together? Big huge stamp in the middle of his upper back. The more I think of that constant reminder the less hope I have of recovery.

BIG HUGE UGLY STAMP! 6" x 4" Celtic knot design with his initial in it..It's mainly black. She (probably got the same one), but he said her "knot" is different. I will go hurl now.

I would love to be wrong, Faith.

But I think "with his parents" is the last place he'd be right now, considering they will lamb baste him when they find out.

I'm only saying this because Adultery, by definition, is an incredibly selfish act, and he wouldn't want to cause himself any grief, which would happen IF he was with his parents.

Although, the other side of the coin is, he might try to get to them and tell them lies before you can expose him.

I know it sounds like I'm painting a monster here, but like I said in an earlier post, I am livid with him.

Lv,
Jo

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Infaith -

Your situation sounds very hopeful to me. Of course it doesn't to you, because you are so new to this.

My WH paid for a tatoo for OW. It is a heart surrounded by barbed wire. She said she got it so her heart would be protected. Yuch. She has been living with my husband for over a year, and has completely abandoned her husband and 12 year old daughter. Really sad.

Faith,

Believer's husband also loves bikes [hogs].

Just an FYI.

Jo

Yep Faith - He and OW have been enjoying riding our 2003 Roadking. They both love it.

Every time you start to think of what "MAY" happen, or what he may be doing, Faith. Think about how he acted and what he did when you and he were dating. When he was supposedly "divorced".

You have a template to look at that he is probably following AGAIN.

Jo