I just sent an email requesting a counseling session ASAP. You are right Jo, my parents are worried that he might go to his parents and paint me ugly. I truly doubt that they would believe him, especially after they get done talking to me. My bet is - they knew alot more about his previous situation than they would ever tell anyone. And because he mentioned he may try to talk to his dad. My bet is that he is with her and thinks I am just sitting here, waiting for him some more.

He did not go into detail, but she has MY helmet.

There has been a new development. H’s Grandma has had a stroke. H’s Dad called me back with the news. He has not gotten my phone message yet. H’s Dad has not been able to locate him. I called and lm w/h that I needed to talk to him, that it had nothing to do with us.

He called back immediately. I told him. He then took the opportunity to tell me he was going to call me, that he set up an appointment to get councelled. (how did he do that on Sunday?).

I just told him to keep the conversation to the outside family.

I earlier left a message on MIL and FIL voice mail, asking them to call me. They have been at the hospital since Tuesday and were headed home. They will get the message. Do I tell them now?

FIL called to return my earlier phone call, asking what was wrong. I just couldn’t lay it on him tonight. I told him the situation had been taken care of for now. He again asked what was wrong? I told him we did not need to get into it right now.

MIL is calling on home phone and H is calling on Cell. Let MIL go to vm and picked up h. FIL had called him, requesting he call him back. H wondered what I had told them, completely humble, understanding and stating that it is not my fault. I never said I was sorry, but I feel awful. I told H that it was his call. Someone had to call them. He is right now.

So another thought. I cannot have children. He has always wanted a son. He is the last boy in the family to carry on the family name. OW has a son. I am sure OW could get pg. That’s a hurtful thought after all we have gone through …. From infertility clinics, to baby adoptions, to foster-adopt programs, over the last 6 years..

Spoke with my sister. She seems to think he may be sabotaging our efforts, taking it just far enough to appease me, but not really commit. Your thoughts?

The A has seen the light of day. His parents know. He told them. MIL called me immediately. I asked her what he told them. He kept things very brief, but told them that NONE of this was my fault. There are some things he can’t lie about, although my leaving them the message to call me may have prevented it.

She asked me for more details, reluctantly I told her most of it, stating all the while that they need to help him, get the help he needs. I told her I could not be his support through that, at this time. He will need them.

We discussed not telling him just how much they know, so that they can help him better. She agrees.

This was so much worse than even telling my parents. They are incredibly supportive of me. I did not talk to FIL, only MIL. I am sure he will be calling soon. FIL is on way out of town on business, sadly leaving MIL alone.

They live 4 hours away from us or I would probably go stay with her. I am a little afraid to drive anywhere with my sense's being so shattered.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">InFaith wrote:
We discussed not telling him just how much they know, so that they can help him better. She agrees.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Faith,

IMVHO, "helping him" is to bring E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G out in the open.

If yours and MIL's thinking is to save him embarrassment, I understand your intentions may be compassion BUT ... the deal is HE OWNS THIS.

In order for him to become a stand up kind of man, to address his duality and dishonesty issues he needs to know all is known, nothing hidden any more. It only serves to perpetuate more lies of omission.

Bottom line .. all cards on the table. It's the only way a person who lies habitually can be held accountable.

Please run this past Steve Harley in your phone session. As Steve believes in RADICAL HONESTY across the board.

I can't imagine Steve would agree that hiding full disclosure information from a repeat serial cheater who lies to get what he wants would be a good thing, or moreover HELP HIM

The premise of EXPOSURE is to bring everything to light, meaning he knows THEY KNOW ... do you want this to happen again by making the mistake of protecting your WH this time from feeling embarrassment for HIS deeds.

Jo

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

I am misunderstood here. We talked about not telling him, not indefinately, but to give him the chance to tell them himself (in his next few conv. w/them). They will then have the knowledge to know when he is still lying. I told MIL that if she wants to tell him everything, it was ok by me, I don't expect them to keep secrets. BUT if they can use the information better by letting him tell them...why not?

No other reason. He does not deserve to be protected at all. The main people in his life KNOW EVERYTHING. They are now armed to keep him on track, right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by infaith:
<strong> BUT if they can use the information better by letting him tell them...why not?

No other reason. He does not deserve to be protected at all. The main people in his life KNOW EVERYTHING. They are now armed to keep him on track, right? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Infaith, they need to just get it out there. They can't help him if there is not full acknowledgment of the facts. Expecting him to bust himself is unrealistic, nor will it make him an honest person. Now is not the time for games, it is the time for full honest disclosure and they won't help him one bit by pretending they know less than they do. It will just prolong honest discussion that can lead to results.

So please ask them to convey the honest truth to him and don't give him any wiggle room, it does no good.

Do you know if he is with her?

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I assume he is with her. I spoke with him briefly yesterday to notify him of his Grandma's stroke. He told me he scheduled a 'therapy' session for today at 10 (right, he did that over the weekend). I am not dumb any more, numb, not dumb.

I HAVE scheduled an appt. with Dr. Steve 1st thing tomorrow morning.

I have some financial securing to do this morning, I am not looking forward to it.

This is only 3 days old and I am getting really tired. Thought last night would be ok, but turned into 2 hours of restlessness.

I understand your exhaustion, Faith.

Last two days you've been scrambling to try and catch up with the last 2 years you were left out of, and also tryin to see what damage was done and what potential land mines are out there that could continue to damage your life.

If sleep deprivation continues, ask your GP for help with that when you go to explore Anti-deps. Nothing addictive of course.

I'm so glad MB is here to help you, I know it helped save my life.

Love you, T.
Jo

THIS IS MORE THAN JUST AN AFFAIR (I don't mean to minimize affair, but this is scaring me)

Met: 2/96
1st date: 8/29/96
Married: 8/29/97
Disaster: 9/9/04

Husband has had OW for 2+ years. She 'thinks' he lives with her and is divorced. We have never considered divorce.

She found out we were together on vacation last week & called him on it. He immediately hopped a plane (told me business).

We were on the path of child adoption. We told each other how much we loved and cherished one another all of the time.

He put an end to a 5 year friendship. I have just chatted with the ex-friends and uncovered more lies.

He has attempted putting wedges between his parents and me - it was close to working.

He has been paying rent on an apartment for her. He does his laundry with her. He has made a home for her (at least since 2/04)

He travels (1/04 new job) so it is easier to have this relationship. He is gone from me usually about 6 days a week. I have determined he is with her 2 days. I believe he has me take him to departures and she picks him up at arrivals. He always has his car in the 'shop' getting fixed (company car-new) OR it is parked at the airport.

Motorcycle also in shop, no time to bring it home, he is out of state all of the time (cycle at her apartment).

She works less than a mile from me in the local bar. He worked there all last year, while holding a local sales job.

He is a pathological liar, manipulator our entire relationship, unbeknown to me. He is very good, of course now I see.

His first marriage seems to start the pattern for adultery.

His parents support me 100%. They agree he needs major professional help. After speaking with MIL last night, she seem to think they saw a change in Michael after he went away to college.

Of course now, for several reasons I feel I won't go back to him:
1. Got matching tattoos, his is huge & located at his neck between shoulders. It is ugly & a constant reminder of her.
2. WHO IS HE?
3. so much

I thought he was a loving, caring man. I think, at this point - I may only have discovered the tip of the iceberg. Right now I am real close to thinking he may really need to be committed. I don't think he is dangerous, but what do I know about him.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by infaith:
<strong> THIS IS MORE THAN JUST AN AFFAIR</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Going back to johnh39's post, this is an understatement.

He is not some garden variety, temporarily fog-bound, alien abducted, EN starved wayward spouse. He's sick. This is out of the league of MB methods for marital recovery.

This doesn't mean he can't be cured, just that he needs industrial strength help.

Please share with us Steve's assessment.

WAT

Calling now...
Will report.
Thank you for your kind push WAT. It is needed confirmation.
Faith

I am in Plan B. I have "surviving the affair" with me right now - Thank you Jo. I will be posting my letter and asking advice.

I have secured my home and vehicle.

I reason to suspect that he has been hiding something in the attic. We have never been up in the attic. (Well, he definately has now) More on that later.

Thank you for your prayers and support.

inFaith

I am in Plan B.
Can we see your Plan B letter?

Is there a reason you went to Plan B so quickly after finding out, considering it was only 4 days ago?

Hi Chris,

Faith just had a session with Harley this morning. She emailed me stating Steve wants her in Plan B. As to why, Faith will have to answer that as she didn't fully explain in her email to me.

Because as we all know, Plan B isn't implemented without Plan A first.

She's probably busy typing the Plan B letter as I type this. I know she plans on having us critique it for her before it's delivered. Perhaps then she will also explain why Steve Harley wants her in Plan B before ever implementing Plan A first.

Hope you are well, Chris.

Love,
Jo

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Dr. Steve advised me to go to Plan B RIGHT NOW.

My H is a habitual liar. He has lied to me from the day I met him. It is a game with him. From what information I have at hand he did the same to wife #1. MIL is helping with ‘the before me’ part.

He purposefully split up a friendship (a couple that we did things this on an above regular basis for 5 years) last November. He made me believe they did something to him and I went over and called them on it. I can submit that story later. I was the one that ended the friendship, under his manipulative guide. I visited with them last night on a whim, and was right.

He has been trying to separate myself from his folks. I see it all real clear now. I have spoke with MIL about it. Another story later.

It appears the ONLY excitement he gains out of life is to become someone else. He truly was living dual lives for the past 2+ years.

He is very intellectual and he is playing a game of chess with us all. His three favorite sayings on D-Day were “I have devastated 3 lives” “It’s all my fault” “What have I done?”

I have been going back in “our time” and discovering so many things that he has manipulated to his advantage.

I am currently reading up on Plan B, wanting to submit my letter to you to review for me ASAP.

I am exhausted and I keep falling to sleep (which I guess, is good for today) as tomorrow brings more to do.

I have secured as much of my property as I can and feel safe.

I want to keep you all posted. This forum has been, and will be good for me. I feel so very blessed to have my friends and family’s full support.

At this time, I feel there is a 2% chance of reconciliation. He needs brutal professional help. At this time, the A is insignificant. It is only a sprained ankle compared to the rest of it.

I am going back to reading, napping, reading….It has been a horrific 5 days.

I may be back tonight, I may wait till morning. Would love to hear any comments.

In Faith

In addition to above post..Jo feel free to discuss ANYTHING that you and I have said verbally about this case. I need as much advise and support as possible.

Hi Faith,

After knowing of thousands of stories from this board and others (serial cheating, long-term affairs and ONS), I'd say there are several aspects and characteristics about your sitch that are typical of a WS in terms of the act of betrayal, whether it be serial, long-term affairs or a ONS (one night stand). They are sadly very predictable and devistating.

The uniqueness to your story is that both sides of the triangle (you and the OW) were lied to (WS's always lie to both parties) and told by him that he was divorced while still really married. Then moving in with the OW while still living with the current wife.

All cheating has a degree of duplicity, it's the nature of the monster, although yours is somewhat excessive, IMHO.

As most serial cheaters, your H is a "One Trick Pony". He used the same sham on his ex-W as he did on you, and will predictably repeat it with his newest victim, current OW.

I think Harley wants you in immediate Plan B because he feels you have been in Plan A during the 2+ years you were trying to figure out what was wrong with him, his aloofness etc. You were trying to meet all his needs sensing something was wrong.

So basically what I'm saying is we all know an affair can be a symptom of something more, but it is a horrifically inappropriate response to a problem, regardless of how large that problem is.

The basics still apply, your H made a choice to have an affair and there are consequences for that bad choice.

When you start to read others stories Faith, you'll see there are uncanny similarities in several areas.

Lv,
Jo

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Looking forward to seeing your Plan B letter.

We have some great Plan B letter scrubbers here at MB ... I'll make sure we get them enagaged in it's critique.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Love,
jo