Dear Joker again!

I will refer you to "Recovering Dad" or something like that, in the recovery board. He has not been posting for some months now, but his threads can be found if you search for them. He had many threads and posts on the effects of sexual child molestration, and why such victims often become WS's when grown.

Edited to include:
His name is :
stunned-dad-fast recovering
Member # 25536

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Frank57 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She feels we never should have gotten married and she never wanted
to have kids. (we married after she became pregnant with our second
child)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Typcial "fogtalk". "Rationalization" and "justification" for
doing what she KNOWS is wrong. i.e., "it wouldn't be adultery IF we
weren't married."
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually she has always felt this way. She came from a very abusive family
Her mother ended up having to flee from her father with herself and the kids
to protect them. To her Marriage only meant money problems and knock
down drag out fights all the time. It is ironic that in a lot of ways she
realized her fears and turned out marriage into almost exactly what she expected.
I have never layed a hand on her in anger but we did fight for years over
really dumb things like how to properly fold towels and underwear. We never
resolved any conflict, one of us always just gave in and resented the other
for it.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She thinks I am playing a Martyr by being so nice to her and it makes
her sick. She admits there have been really good times but the last few years
have been hell (On this I agree)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course she takes this stance because
it much easier to "justify" cheating on a jerk than it is a "nice guy." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We talked about this last night. In all of this, I have made assumptions, demands
and justifications for her actions but I never once asked her why she did it or
how it made her feel. It was all just about me and my feelings.

I will admit when I first confronted her about the real PA's that is what I wanted
to know most. She became so anger that I would disrepect her privacy by
reading her diary that I never got the chance. She seemed never open to talking
about anything and told me everything was in the past and I only hurt myself finding
out.

Well, last night she did open up to me. She said it was not about the sex at all.
It was about being made to feel attractive, and wanted. It was about seduction
and being seduced. I can certainly understand that (not condone it). I remember how
it felt and how powerful it's effect can be. It got me to leave my beloved state
of Texas move up to Misery... I mean Missouri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We had not been affectionate
to each other in years. If this is the truth then it does give me hope. I can
and have been trying to meet her need to feel wanted. She has been spending
very little time on the computer (she used to spend 5 to 6 hours a night)
I have found no evidence of any new inapporiate actions be her.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong> But I am intriqued by your agreement with her statement regarding the "last few
years." Implicit in that agreement seems to be an admission that YOU were not
fulfilling your God-given role as husband. Just how DO you see your "part" in
the "last few years?"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can see now that I have been a miserable failure as a husband. I have spent all
my life trying my best to avoid conflict. I am just not wired on how to deal with
it. I would rather give in then keep fighting. In the past that character flaw
was used againt me time and time again by other to get what they want.

When we started this relationship I promised myself that I would not be that way
anymore. I would stand up for what I want and not back down. Talk about
swinging from one end of the pendulum to the other. The problem is that my W
learned to control her life in a constant state of conflict. She had to fight
for everything she got including attention from her father. As you can imagine
our interactions were unpleasent at best. I would not back down, she would
not accept anything but her way. Neither would hear anything about the others point
of view. There was no thing as compromise. Eventually I would give up first and
she would get HER way. The more I resisted the more intense the pain she inflicted.
Eventually I gave up control of everything to her. I was nothing more then a child
to her. She controled how we spent money, how we spent our time and even what friends
I could have. She was allowed to go out with her "Friends" whenever she wanted
and I was left home to watch the kids. I became her live-in babysitter and I resented
it. She planned out everything weeks in advance and never asked for my input.
There was never anytime left for me or even us. Her time came first, the kids second and
somewhere way way down the list was private time with me. I could not interupt
her TV shows or interupt her when she was reading. My time became 11:30pm to 12:00pm
once or twice a month. We would both be too tired to make any real use of it.

Eventually I withdrew of the relationship. I spent all my time working on my
websites or playing games. I would bearly notice her in the room. She would go
to bed and I would still be up for hours playing games. I gave up trying to be
affectionate. I got tired of being rejected. She would joke that I was just
a "Dirty old man" She tired to talk to me about it. She even called my computer
my "square headed girlfriend" But I would not give it up. I was entiled to
MY TIME and it was the only thing keeping me sane. Eventually she gave up on
our marriage as well. She stopped being mad about my time on the computer. She
focused her time on going out with "Friends". I was accutally happy when she
went out. I did not have to deal with her for a few hours. The pretty much
sums up they last 3 to 4 for years of our marriage.

Do I see the role I played in all of this. YES. Is it my fault she went outside
our marriage, no. That was her decision alone. Part of the reason I feel I can
forgive her is I know we both made mistakes and we can learn from them. Going
forward we can avoid those mistakes and get it right this time. Reading books
and getting counseling could give us the knowledge we need to fix this.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My trying so hard to save our marriage makes her (SICK).
What does she want me to do? beat her? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course it "makes her sick."

First, you've been stumbling around thinking "being affectionate" is the answer.
It's not. It's part of the answer, but just like a car won't go very far with
just a carburator, there are more "parts" needed.

Second, it's hard to justify the stench of an affair when someone is being
"nice" to you.

Third, it's not you that's making her sick. It's sin. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been stumbing, tripping and falling. I have been tring to work everything
out in my head with out actually invovling her in the process or asking
what she needs of me. Our talk last night was the first time I did this and
it opened the flood gates for her. For a moment the fog lifted and I truely
saw the person underneath. She is remorseful and she is relieved I know the truth.
I told her the reason I confronted her about it was so she would not have
to care that secret around and it be a barriar between us. We did discuss
what she felt I was a martyr. I was taking blame for her actions and she could
not stand I would do that for her. She did not deserve it for what she had
done to me. I think you are right. I am not the one making her sick, it is
her own guilt and the sin that make her sick. She has always thought I was
the extremely Jealous type and she could not believe I could forgive her. She
expected me to stomp, scream and perhaps beat her when I found out. She could not
believe I have never said one hurtful thing about it to her. She knows I love
her much more then she thought I could. The whole coversation gave me hope. I promised
to come to her any time I had a question I needed to talk about and she
promised to give me honest answers.

I did discover that yesterday she requested the removal from a public board
of some of the erotic stories she has written. Three of the stories I know are
true (only the names of been changed) and I suspect the others are too. She does
not know I know. It does make me feel better to have them gone and I do
think it show the fog is lifting and she does not want the reminders of what she
did.

I also discovered that she has been using my computer to look at a number
of marriage sites. This shows me she is actively trying to firgure things out
as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ForeverHers:


I am wondering who, if anyone, at your church knows about
her adultery?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that some of her girl friends know (one of whom she had a lesiban affair
with)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Joker, I'm going to take this response as "sarcastic humor" because
you KNOW my question was directed at who in authority at the church might know
about your wife's sin and open rebellion against God.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not believe anyone in authority at church knows anything. We seem the
perfect couple. One of the only that attends regulary together.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to talk to pastor about all of this but I am affaid he would not
respect my wishes and tell her about it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there some reason you believe
that your pastor would be so weak as to engage in gossiping or in revealing a
confidence? Is this just your fear talking?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it is just my fear talking. I know Pastor would be very caring and do
everything in his power to help me. I guess I just don't want to change his
impression of my wife. She is one of his favorite members.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I talk to our pastor or should I seek our a pastor at another
church? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, your pastor will likely need to know at some point IF
the two of you are going to remain there AND your wife is going to continue to
teach.

Before that, however, it seems that YOU have a large knowledge deficit yourself
regarding what ARE God's commands and how to fulfill the roles of husband and
wife to have a marriage that is both loving and that brings honor and glory to
God. Therefore, I strongly suggest that you seek counseling with a TRAINED
counselor. Someone who has had specific training in biblical MARRIAGE
counseling, not just a few seminary classes on counseling in ministry.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are right, I don't really know what I am supposed to be in terms
of what God wants.

I have contacted Lutheran Family Services to set up an appointment with
a marriage counselor. I talked to my wife last night but she is still unwilling
to go. I want to at least try it for myself. I know I lack the answers
and I am doing all I can to learn what it really takes to make a successful
marriage.

Joker,

You need to tell her that she must come to you as well to talk. You are NOT her child. Further, given what you have said you BOTH need counseling to deal with the previous traumas in your life. Neither of you nor the people here are really trained to deal with childhood abuse and other issues such as you have brought up. An MC will help you, but I think IC is really going to be necessary.

This is an excellent start and I hope it leads to a lot of insights and growth, but get some help.

God Bless,

JL

QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank57:
<strong>
If punishment and humiliation is what she seeks in a relation then this may be
why you have not been enough for her.
</strong>[/QUOTE]

I don't think that is what is was all about at all.
Her fathers was very demanding and dominant. She never lived
up to his expectations and she aways wanted to make him happy.

I am about as far to the opposite in the scale as possible.
I am very loving and I hardly ever tell my wife when
she does something to displease me. For the last several
years she has pretty my been in complete control of our
marriage. She decided what we did, what we ate and when
she could go out with "friends." I found it easier to give
up the control then fight her daily.

She wants to be controled. When it comes to the bed room.
Being under the control of someone else removes her feeling
of guilt and lets her explore her dark side. After all
it is not that she wanted to do it, she was simply obeying
an order. I think also, by complying to the command she
it fulfilling the need for approval from her father
in a round about way.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank57:
<strong>

She may be the victim of sexual abuse when she was a child.
</strong>[/QUOTE]

I do not think this is the cause but it could be. I do know
that she is severally scared from emotional abuse from
her father and that plays a lot into it

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong> Joker,

You need to tell her that she must come to you as well to talk. You are NOT her child. Further, given what you have said you BOTH need counseling to deal with the previous traumas in your life. Neither of you nor the people here are really trained to deal with childhood abuse and other issues such as you have brought up. An MC will help you, but I think IC is really going to be necessary.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree that we both need counseling and it goes
beyond MC. I really do think in time and with
my support she will agree to it.

To be fair she did remind me last night when
we talked that she has been trying for years
to get me to go to counseling and I refused.
Each time I would grad a stack of self help
books and get busy. That would last a week
or so and then things would go back to "NORMAL"

We both wonder how much of this we could have
avoided if we had gone to MC. Right now she
resents that I think it is so important when
I have been against the whole time. I explained
to her that before I thought I could solve it
and now I realize I need help.

I think in time she will agree to it. We have
only been at this 2 months. We have bad habits
that have lasted years.

I am encouraged.

Child molestation is common in the background of women who have "Double-Life" affairs. A strict religious upbringing and guilt over early sexual experiences is also a common element.

If she is unwillng to seek help, I suggest you think about seeking sole custody of your children. What else might the "Master" demand she do?

And - Sex is not "dark" when pursued in marriage. It is Holy. If you or she thinks otherwise, you have a VERY long road to travel.

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by johnh39:
<strong> Child molestation is common in the background of women who have "Double-Life" affairs. A strict religious upbringing and guilt over early sexual experiences is also a common element.

If she is unwillng to seek help, I suggest you think about seeking sole custody of your children. What else might the "Master" demand she do?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no "Master" now and there is no evidence
of any in months. In the end, she did not like
giving up the control to him.

I am not sure about the child abuse but I do
know she suffers from deep emotional abuse
from her father, the divorce of her parents and
from her interacts with both step parents.

She did bring a lot of it on herself but that is
no excuse.

I think in time she will be ready to seek help.
I think right now she is afraid of what I would
do if I new the whole truth. I am working to
create a safe, supportive and loving enviroment.
I think when she feels more secure she will be
willing to address the underlying issues. They
have always been there and we have both ignored
them until now. I think we can both see the
problem it would cause to ignore them now.

I am not trying to excuse her actions but I think
the underlying factors do play a part.

I will continue to work towards getting her the
help she needs and MC for both of us

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Our talk last night was the first time I did this and it opened the flood gates for her. For a moment the fog lifted and I truely
saw the person underneath. She is remorseful and she is relieved I know the truth.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Joker - this is very good. This is the FIRST step in a long journey. Let me also caution you that "relief" now that the "secret" is out is a normal reaction. But it does not spell the end of the work, as I am sure you know. Often what happens after this is that the WS gets the best nights sleep they've had in a long time, while the BS who is dealing with the shock of discovery and the uncertainty of what to do is often up all night with their mind running in several directions all at the same time. I hope you are able to get some rest because you'll need it to keep thinking clearly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has always thought I was
the extremely Jealous type and she could not believe I could forgive her. She
expected me to stomp, scream and perhaps beat her when I found out. She could not
believe I have never said one hurtful thing about it to her. She knows I love her much more then she thought I could.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, this is a thing that strikes a lot WS's after discovery. There were "sure" that there spouse would rant and rave and divorce them BEFORE the affair was revealed. That fueled the "well, it's probably over after one affair, so I might as well have more" sort of foglike thinking. But when we submit our will and emotions to God and follow Him in obedience, the real love, that deep, caring, Agape Love comes out. We understand what it means to truly love someone despite anything that they might do because we are truly concerned about THEM, not just their actions. The "in love" things you hear talked about are more "lust" than love. What she is seeing in you is a true reflection of love, Christ's image born out in your actions. It was there all along, but you two managed to erect "walls" where you had too little interaction for it to really be seen, short of a monumental crises. Welcome to the club. I've been there. So have many of us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did discover that yesterday she requested the removal from a public board
of some of the erotic stories she has written. Three of the stories I know are true (only the names of been changed) and I suspect the others are too. She does not know I know. It does make me feel better to have them gone and I do think it show the fog is lifting and she does not want the reminders of what she did.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't underestimate the importance and the significance of this. This a "severing" of part of who she "was" in favor of who she wants to be. This is CHANGE, and a very positive change. Another big step forward. And if you have read Surviving An Affair you may even recognize that it made a significant deposit in YOUR Love Bank.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also discovered that she has been using my computer to look at a number of marriage sites. This shows me she is actively trying to firgure things out as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another positive step. The only caution I would through out is to be careful of sites masquerading as "marriage sites." Many are not and most are NOT committed to saving marriages that are in trouble, much less that are dealing with an affair.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm going to strongly recommend that you search for a NANC certified Marriage Counselor in your area. It is vitally important that you both center your lives, your marriage, and your recovery efforts on Christ, on obedience to God's commands, and on HOW to forgive each other and to fulfill your roles as husband and wife according to God's instructions. "Going it your way" has been disasterous for both of you. Even though it might feel "uncomfortable" to go to counseling (it did for my wife and I initially), get agreement from her to "try it for a little while" because you both NEED some outside help.

God bless.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong> Often what happens after this is that the WS gets the best nights sleep
they've had in a long time, while the BS who is dealing with the shock of
discovery and the uncertainty of what to do is often up all night with their
mind running in several directions all at the same time. I hope you are able to
get some rest because you'll need it to keep thinking clearly.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah my W sleeps like a baby. I am lucky to manage 3 to 4 hours of sleep.
I did sleep a little better after our last talk. My problem is I have very
Active imagination. When I sleep my mind is free to create vidid images of the
affair (I read about them in detail) as well as future ones. My mind is locked
in a struggle to figure out what happened, why it happened and what I could
do to help prevent it from happening again.

It is like I told my wife. I am not asking about the affairs because I would
love to know all of morbid details. I want to know why she did it, how it made
her feel, and what we can do differently to prevent it in the future.

I have learned (if factual) that she did it mostly because the other gave
her the attention and made her feel attractive. I can deal with that and I can
and have been doing everything to make sure she knows I feel that way about her.
She has really started to respond to it.

I know she wishes I would just let it go but right now I am trying to find
all of the cracks in the foundation of our marriage.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>

We understand what it means to truly love someone despite anything that they might
do because we are truly concerned about THEM, not just their actions. The "in
love" things you hear talked about are more "lust" than love. What she is
seeing in you is a true reflection of love, Christ's image born out in your
actions. It was there all along, but you two managed to erect "walls" where you
had too little interaction for it to really be seen, short of a monumental
crises. Welcome to the club. I've been there. So have many of us.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The truth is I had grown to HATE her over the years and I am sure she HATED me.
All of the fighting and resentment had built a barrier around my heart. I did
not want to talk to her on the phone and I dreaded coming home at night. There
were times in bed when even the sound of her breathing made my skin crawl.

I know now it was because her balance in my love bank was so overdrafted that
it would have been easier for her to file for bankruptcy.

It is lucky for both of us that I came to my senses a couple of weeks before
I found out anything. I had already stoped the fighting and was starting
to treat her the way I always should have. She was not responsive to it but
that did not stop me. I felt my love for her returning. I do believe had
something not woke me up when It did and I found out all of this, I would
have kept it a secret until the divorce papers where in her hand.

Everything I am doing right now goes against my nature and what I always said
I would do if it happened to me. It is my faith and Gods love coming through me
that give me the strength to continue. I will say that I did not know I was
capible of this kind of love. The experience has also strengthend my faith.
I understand the true meaning of the Lord's prayer now.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>
Don't underestimate the importance and the significance of this.
This a "severing" of part of who she "was" in favor of who she wants to be.
This is CHANGE, and a very positive change. Another big step forward. And if
you have read Surviving An Affair you may even recognize that it made a
significant deposit in YOUR Love Bank.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not underestimate the importance of it at all. It is a hugh step in my
opinion. Maybe eventually she will take them all down. It did make a large
deposit in her account and I have notice a diffenate change in the way
she is treating me over the last day or so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also discovered that she has been using my computer to look at a
number of marriage sites. This shows me she is actively trying to firgure things
out as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another positive step. The only caution I would through
out is to be careful of sites masquerading as "marriage sites." Many are not
and most are NOT committed to saving marriages that are in trouble, much less
that are dealing with an affair.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is looking at christian marriage sites. She has even started to print out
articles she thinks apply to us. It is very encouraging and I have told her I
feel that way.

John,

One thing I feel compelled to caution you about. You are NOT her counselor, don't play that role. You are her husband and you very definitely have a role to play in her life, but not as counselor.

I would like to encourage you to go find posts by "Stunned Dad Fast Recovering" . Your W has childhood issues that have NOT been addressed and that need to be addressed. The basic problems in your marriage are not the affairs, they are her need to control and the subsequent fighting that has gone on. It may well be related to her family life but it MUST be addressed or I am afraid the basis for many of the troubles in your marriage will not be addressed.

Please think about this and talk to your W about it. You need marriage counseling but I think she needs IC for her family issues.

God Bless,

JL

I have been trying to get my W to agree to MC.

She did say today that she agrees but is not
ready for it yet.

I asked her if she would be willing to read
"Surviving An Affair" and "love Busters" in the
mean time. I was SURPRISED when she admitted
she had been secretly reading them when I was not
around.

I wonder if that explains her recent change
in behavior ("Big Time deposits in my Love Bank")

I am becoming much calmer now.

Hi Joker,

I've been reading your thread. I'm sorry for the situation that has brought you but am glad you are. There are absolutely wonderful people here who care for you, me and each other unconditionally.

She wants to be controled. When it comes to the bed room.

When I read this a red flag went up in my head. Being the survivor of a physically and psychologically abusive childhood myself. I can understand the turmoil your W feels inside--the need to feel a sense of control over something, anything when your life is out of your hands. However, this says to me that she may have suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a relative (father?). I also have a cousin who was sexually abused by her own father from 2yo to 5 who later acted in a similar fashion to your W. She may be able to tell you about the other aspects of the abuse than what she finds "acceptable" or safe. But something tells me it's much more than that. She may have buried it so far deep down that it may be blocked from her consciousness. For me, some memories are still only now coming out. I've had numerous "out of body experiences" to deal with the horror and the reality of the moment. Are you positive that this is not true in her case? It could explain a lot. It sounds as if, through her promiscuity and serial cheating, she is re-enacting possible rapes/abusive episodes so that she can now be in a position to control them. (I don't know if that makes any sense.) You also spoke of dominance, etc.

It does sound like she is moving in the direction of counselling which could be a good thing for her.

Please let me know if I am off base.

To be honest I have no idea for sure.

She has told me and I have read details in
her diary written at the request of her master
about the loss of her virginity.

It the story is true and both versions are identical, she lost her virginity in colloge
at the age of 19. I am not saying that there
could not have been something else.

I do know for a fact that she has never felt
like she could do anything right in her fathers
eyes and she has spent most of her life trying
to please him. If I remember it right, her
parents divorces when she was 4 years old.

I agree that the problems way predate our
relationship and need to be addressed. I do
believe in time and with my support she will
get help. Right now it is a financial burden
more then anything. I am about to launch a
new project that should provide more then enough
to cover the costs.