Myrta,

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words . You have confirmed my thoughts and actions. I really am trying to stay calm and wait and pray for things to change. But the waiting is so hard, particularly as I am only "walking by faith and not by sight" as there is not even a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel.

Thankyou for explaining your view on the fog situation. That really does give me hope as the actions of my WW are so out of character and totally contrary to all that she has ever believed. I find it difficult to think that she can live long term without seeing the boys even though they are teenagers now.
A couple of months before I found out about the A (she says it had not started then), my wife told me that she felt that the boys no longer needed her as they were growing up. We talked about this and I understood what she was saying. They are (and are becoming) independent and "letting go" is not easy but of course it is something we all have to do. I assured her that they definitely did need her, but not in the same practical way as when they were younger. Perhaps she is still using this thought as justification for her actions.

I keep hoping that soon she will discover that the OM is not for her, but for now she is "in love with him". I hope too, that the practical difficulties they face will cause problems in their relationship. He is just out of prison, has no job and no home. They are living with his parents in London (70 miles from our home and her work). My WW is supporting the OM with her money which cannot be much as she is still voluntarily paying me almost half her take home pay for the support of the boys. I just cannot see how this can work. I guess he is looking for work but as yet has not found any.
There are reasons to be hopeful, but the nagging thought at the back of my mind is.... am I just trying to convince myself that she is in the fog and must come out soon???

Myrta it has been really helpful for you to confirm that the foggy situation is real and that you are out/coming out.
God bless you for your kindness. Praying for you and Stanley today. I'm off to church withn the boys in about an hour. Its a special day with a very well known preacher and author. I'm really looking forward to it.

Scotty

Scotty

as I have found out, Myrta's comments are really insightful and gives you a good understanding of how our wifes seem to think about part of the issue. I have always found her coments very helpful and usually spot on in my situation....Stan has a smart cookie there.

What makes them continue in the affair? Only God knows that one mate.

The one thing I wanted to say to you was that you may need in time to have some family couselling for your kids, especially the 17 & 14 yr old. I did a lot of fact finding on how this affects kids and it is something to be aware of.

Do not be at all surprised if the boys reject your wife for a long time, perhaps long into their adult years.
14 yrs olds need mums more then dads and he will be feeling the loss and desertion very deeply no matter what he says. This may show itself in adverse behaviour or disrespect for those around him, you for instance. It likely that the kids will test your commitment to them for a while so be patient if they are bit testy.

My 16 old son has been a bit more difficult then usual and has little time for mum right now, same with 18 old daughter, though she is a bit more accepting. The sort of thing I'm starting to see is small but important issues, like' Son you promised you would do abc today for us...reply... why should I bother to keep my word whe SHE cant to you & so on & so on...at times its very confrontational as he gets very explicit.

So its something to remember if the opportunity for reconciliation happens because believe me it makes things very difficult

Scotty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am happy I could be of some help to you!
My husband was telling me all of your story, since I haven't read all of it.
He told me that your wife's affair was exposed to everyone!!! YIKES!!! This is what I had told JL, when is not a good idea. I think the "exposure" is more damaging than good! I always told my husband , than if ANYONE knew about my Affair, I would be gone !!!!!
Can you imagine the shame that your wife is feeling??? She must be feeling like the worst monster in the world!! By doing that kind of general exposure, YOU PUSHED her with that loser!!! She knows he is a loser, but since everyone thinks she is a loser too, she might as well act as one!!!
You think she is happy with that man??? NOOOOOOO
She probably has many sleepless nights thinking about YOU and her children! But she does not know what to do! She is trapped!! And I am sure this OM is very convincing! Tells her all kinds of things, confuses her thoughts,her beliefs.
I am really concerned about your boys. Like Aussie said, they are very vulnerable to suffer because of all of this. I mean to suffer when they are adults to see women in different light. To see you, in a different light. Have you talked to them and ask what they think about their mo m? They need her!!! They ache for her love.
My youngest is 12 years old, but my oldesst is 29, and he would be sooooo devastated if his dad and I would break up and divorce. Every time he talks to us, he senses our troubles, and always,always asks if we are doing okay. Our daughters, 26-24-21 have us in such pedestal and parents, that they would die, have traumas forever if they knew what I did!!! You might think that because your sons are grown they are going to be able to handle it, but no, thats not the case. They are more aware and more suceptible to suffer than when they were toddlers or children. When they are small, they will miss their parents been together, but they get used to it, with the proper guidance. It is easier in young kids than in teenagers or adult children.
What kind of marriage you had with your wife? Were you very close? Did you talked a lot? Were you very caring to each other? How was your relationship with your children as a family?
Please take care!
Myrta

Scotty:

I am Myrta-'s husband. As you can see she is almost out of the fog and looking quite normal. This is what she said in another thread about OM:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He had a good way of conversing, he truly looked interested in what I had to say, my husband did not". He took the time to know me, he was very gentle with my heart, he worshipped the ground I walked on, spent time with me without having sex. He made me feel like I was the only one on earth.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is classic OM speak. These OMs know what to say to women, they are “classic smooth talkers“. For many women this language is hard to resist if they have been married for a long time and the marriage has become a routine. It is not your fault Scotty, but you cannot compete with this “smooth soothing cunning” character in the department of “how to say what women want to hear“.

Where you come way ahead is in terms of being a man of character with lots of integrity who is truthful at all times. By definition OMs don’t have any of these attributes. At this point your wife cannot see these flaws and all she hears is the smooth talk. Ask Myrta, she will tell you all about the smooth talk. It is like a drug and then voila!--------------- A WW is born and she will do whatever is needed to keep the affair going. Myrta told me that during the affair she was as high as a kite and with a ton of energy and confidence. She loved the idea that she was having the same sensations she did as a teenager------ she was re-living her adolescence with the knowledge of an adult (a dangerous conbination). This is omething all of us want to do deep inside. You cannot compete with that Scotty.

It also helped that your wife’s OM was a damsel in distress and needed the advise of your wife. I bet this really elevated your wife’s sense of self-worth in front of the OM.

The good news is that the honeymoon with the OM will end soon and your wife will see the stark reality of a man who is shallow and whose only positive trait is “smooth talk”. Give it sometime------ I see your wife coming back in the next few weeks. The honeymoon will be over and she will face reality. The fantasy will end at some point---- it always does.

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Myrta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta:

I always told my husband , than if ANYONE knew about my Affair, I would be gone !!!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't mean to belittle your beleif in this but remember that your H probably thought that if you ever cheated on him he would be gone, and yet that didn't happen did it? also, would you still leave Stanley if your affair became known through other sources? My point is that until it happens, you don't know how you will react.

Scotty 8

Your exposure of her affair may have angered her because she could no longer spin the truth to her parents and sister and manipulate them to accept her unacceptable behavior BUT she had a choice before you exposed her affair and after she rejected ending her affair it was also HER CHOICE in leaving you, her sons, and devastating her parents and sister and exposure had nothing to do with it. Your exposure did NOT push her to go to the OM it was HER PRIDE that did it, and remember the old saying 'Pride goeth before a fall' because it is very true.

Her affair is doomed to fail and the OM will eventually dump her when he finds himself a younger woman to feed off.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for taking time to post.

Myrta, I know what you are saying and believe me I did not want to expose the affair when I found out, but I was left with no choice. I will try and explain the sequence of events on D-Day.

My W, S14 and me were on holiday in France staying with my wife's sister and family (they moved out there to live several years ago). I discovered text messages from OM on my wife's phone alerting her that their boss at work had found out their affair. We were using my wife's phone to keep in touch with the other two boys back home as my phone is a company phone and I am not permitted to use it abroad.
On discovering the texts I went into shock. I had no idea that anything like this could ever happen. I trusted her completely. I always felt so close to my W and I thought she felt the same way. In 22 years I never thought of straying. Why would I want to? She was all I ever wanted in a wife. I know this was the first time my wife had ever done this. By the time I found out sex had taken place once (the day before we left for holiday).

When I found out I showed my wife the messages and asked her if it was true. She admitted it immediately. We have always tried to be absolutely truthful with each other and anyway there was no point in denying it because of what the OM had said in the text messages. She said she no longer loved me, but loved him and wanted to be with him. I pleaded with her to think carefully of the implications for our family and begged her not to go to be with him.
As well as being in shock I was extremely angry with OM that he could do this to my family. I had his number on the phone so I called him and told him to get out of her life. He kept asking "what does she want? She loves me not you".

I hung up, but kept the phone and while I was trying to talk to my wife he kept texting wanting to talk to her. I would not allow it, but was forced to by what the OM did next.

He phoned our S17 (who was in school at the time) asking for SIL's phone number in France!!
My son had worked on Saturdays at the garage and had been given a ride to work by OM for several weeks. Of course at the time I had no idea that he was OM and certainly no idea that he was on day release from prison and travelling to work from there and picking our son up on the way.

My son did not have his aunt's number and could not understand why this man would urgently need to contact his mum while she was on holiday. My son then phoned me asking what was going on!
In my devastated state of mind all I could say tell him was that he must nit give out the phone number. He knew I was distressed, but I could not explain why. Told him not to worry, but I would call later. He phoned his brother who then called France and spoke to his aunt. She would not tell him, but said he had to speak to us.

My wife would not change her mind. I had to tell my boys about their mum's affair over the phone. I was hundreds of miles away and they were in an extremely distressed state back home. My SIL called my MIL and FIL told them of the situation.

I had to contact our pastor back home and get him to go to help my boys. They were in a terrible state.

Eventually when we got home I told no-one else for a week hoping thar W would change her mind. She would not and because of my position in the church, it could not be kept secret.

You see I had no choice. I did not want it, but could not prevent it.

Scotty

Scotty---- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Gosh , that is a horrible way for your sons to have found out. That man, obviously does not have any morals, or care for anyone but himself!!! Thats good, that it was not YOUR choice to expose the affair, unlike what TooMuchCoffee thinks. I still think its a horrible idea. I would go probably crazy, not think straight, if I was exposed!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Your wife is soooooooooo confused. I feel so bad, so sad for her. She cannot, cannot be in her full senses. That man is so bad news!!! She has to be very confused, to be with him, pretending not to care for your sons. She has to care!!! She has been doing just that for many years before, she cannot stop suddenly, just like that!!!
Does she have any close friends, that are your friends too that could talk to her? And see, whats on her mind?
Have you considered the possiblity that she is taking some kind of drug? Drugs make you do crazy, irrational things!
Please, be strong for your sons. They need you to be strong, they need you to be completely there for them. Cry and despair if you must, after they are in bed and they dont see you. They are boys, I think sometimes, they are more fragile than girls to handle these kinds of things!
I wish you and your family the best!
God Bless YOU!
Myrta

Myrta,

I know that she is not thinking straight and that is what keeps me hanging on in hope that one day she must come to her senses, but she has been so confused by the smooth talking of the OM.
I know now that for a while he was working on her as she told me that he "said nice things to her". Several times in conversation she has said "he has made me see.....". He clearly has some hold over her emotions, meeting a need that I failed.
Earlier this year she suffered what I now believe to have been a breakdown. She had to leave her previous employment due to stress. She had three weeks off but wanted to get back into work quickly. She found what seemed to be an ideal job with same pay, less stress and better hours. It was there she met OM.
I feel so guilty now that I did not see the real situation at that time and helped her find a new job immediately because that is what she wanted. We worked together on writing a CV (resume?) and job applications. I wish now that she had more time off work to recover from the stress of her previous employment. I am sure that this must hold a key into understanding what has now happened.

After D-Day we spent two days and nights together and my W was consumed by guilt for her actions, but was definite that she would not change her mind. The boys and I pleaded with her not to go, but she would not (could not?) listen. She was brought up by in a strong Christian home and that is also what we have sought to practice all our married life. She knows that she has done wrong but cannot face the guilt and is running from her past life. I love her and forgive her totally, but I believe that she is unable to forgive herself and sees the OM as her only way out.

Be cause of this she has almost completely cut herself off from all of our friends. She has refused to see anyone from the church. Many have tried in love and concern for her but she has rejected all offers to talk. There is only one of our friends who she will talk to on occasions and that is only because that person was totally persistent and turned up at my wife's workplace at lunch break telling her "you will talk to me", but she too cannot change her mind. I know that no-one can influence my wife. She has to make that decision, but she does not want to.

Within a week of D-Day she told me "I do not want to save our marriage". A few days earlier I did not even know that there was any problem. I was so blind to what was happening. I loved her and she told me that she loved me, but she didn't.
She has now told me that for a long time that she was "trying to live as if she loved me".
Well, if that is true (and it seems like fog talk), I was completely taken in and fooled. But I cannot accept that is the truth. She not only told me that she loved me, she showed it in so many ways.
We never fought or argued. We always cared for each other and our sexual relationship was and always has been completely normal. We even made love within a few hours after her act of adultery had taken place. She told me (after D-Day) that she felt so guilty. I realized at the time that something was not quite right, but I put it down to a couple of health problems that she was having.

I know that she loves our boys. She has always been devoted to them. I know she misses them because she has told this one friend of this. But clearly the OM means so much at the moment that she has made the decision to not see much of them. I just cannot understand this.
She has increased the number of hours she is working to "support the OM" (her words!)and is travelling long distances each day to work and back. But at the weekend when she does have time she is staying many miles away with the OM.
She says she loves them and I believe that, but why are her actions so different??

I just can't see how this situation can continue, but at the moment she is so deep in the fog that she thinks her actions are right and justified for herself. I long for the fog to lift, but will it....ever???

Scotty

SCOTTY--Oh wow, it is quiet A MESS!! I feel so bad for your wife. She is obviously in some kind of turmoil. She probably has one side telling her to go back to you guys, but then this psycho OM, tells her the opposite. This man sounds so horrible. He must be doing quiet a number with his talk. Why was he in prison?
You know Scotty, sometimes, when things like this happen,AFFAIRS, and things get so bad, it brings out everything bad from the past to the surface. Maybe she has some issues with her childhood, even little things that have happened between you and her. Everything comes like an eruption to her mind, and her thoughts get all tangled.
You dont know what kind of a life she is living with this man. She might be living HELL with this guy. But he probably is telling her, that if she goes back to you, her life is going to be worst, plus her own guilt, so she gets all confused and she stays with him.
Do not give up on her. She will see the light sooner than you think! You must try to have someone neutral go and talk to her. Help her understand, not family members ,not a pastor or a priest. She needs maybe a friend from both of you, that likes you both the same.
I really wish you the best!
MYRTA

<small>[ October 04, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

Myrta,

Yes it is a MESS! The circumstances seem unbelievable, but I am living them daily. I feel really bad for my WW. I know she is hurting, but she will not accept help and certainly not from me at the moment.
We have one mutual friend, the one I spoke of in an earlier post who has been able to contact my WW on occasions. My W will talk to her but it is taking time to get into meaningful discussions.This married couple were our closest friends at church, but initially after D-Day my wife cut herself off from all our friends.
This friend called yesterday at my wife's workplace to fill her car with petrol, but more as an excuse just to see her and talk for a few minutes. My wife was busy and our friend said she seemed very stressed. She did ask about our youngest son, said she wanted to see him and seemed upset when our friend told her that he was ill in bed with a very heavy cold and sore throat. However, she has not contacted him so far.

I am not fully certain of the whole reason why the OM was in prison. My wife will not tell me his full name (I only know his first name) and therefore I have not been able to research and find more about him. I have a friend who works in the prison where he finished his sentence, but he is unable to give details (U.K. Official Secrets Act).
I did not find out that he was in prison until a few days after my wife left. She first went to her parents before moving in with OM on his release. My wife left it to my eldest son to break the news to me that he was in prison!
The only details I know is that he served at least four years for the MANSLAUGHTER of someone that he knew who had bad relationship with him.

I am really scared for the safety of my wife and for all of us to that matter. My wife insists that he is a reformed man (fog talk - how does she know??) and that he is loving and kind towards her. He has been out of prison for 6 weeks, has no home (living with parents & my WW) and still no job. Yet he has promised to care for her all her life!!

Feeling a bit brighter today, perhaps the ADs are beginning to kick in.

Scotty

Scotty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
By your last post, it seems to me that maybe your wife is being threatened by this man!!! I mean, after all he is an ex-convict. Maybe she has told him, that she wants to go back to you, or that she wants to go and see the kids, and he doesnot let her. Maybe he has threatened you or the boys, or even YOU!!! And she is scared of him!
Even thru all her fog, she has to see how he is. I am sure!!! I was in the fog too, but I still could see, when I was away from the OM. When your wife is at work, I am sure she has time to think clearly. But then she goes back to "him" and she gets foggy and confused <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> again.
That friend that has talked to her, should keep on insisting and going back to talk to her. She has to be very alert and observe your wife very carefully , too see signs of whats really going on. Please, tell her to go back!!
I am glad you are feeling better today!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Take care of yourself, and the boys!!
Myrta <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Myrta,

I have wondered whether OM is putting pressure on my W to spend weekends with her when she could see the boys, but sadly I really think that the truth is that at the moment all she can think of is him. I do not think he is threatening her as she has plenty of opportunity to get away from him when she comes to work and leaves him 70 miles away in London. As crazy as it is, it seems that she really thinks that this relationship is what she wants.

Our friend is trying to see my W at least once a week and sends her text messages on other occasions, but does not always get a reply. Our friend is very persistent she will not give up! Both her and her husband have been a huge help to me in getting through this last three months. I thank God for true friends like this.

Scotty

SCOTTY....
You still dont know, if she is been threatened. He could have such power over her current state of mind, that she does not dare but to be with him. He could have say to her, "if you dont come back to me, I will do this or that to your sons, or to you"! YOu dont know, what he is capable of doing. Remember he was in jail, so he is capable of anything.
Your wife is not having such a good,jolly time like you think. She could be living a nightmare with that horrific man.
Eventually, she will have to do the right thing and that is to come back to her family, especially her sons, that need her so much.
Good luck ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
MYRTA

SCOTTY!!
HOW ARE THINGS?
ARE YOU OKAY? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> of course, under the cirmcunstances.
Anything new with you wife?

Myrta