</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Waking Up:
<strong>Brownhair,
Funny you would ask about OM's W. They have been divorced for 3 years and she still continues to find every excuse to be in his life. She constantly tells him she loves him and I believe she does, I believe she recognizes the mistakes they both made and is willing to work on the marriage even knowing about me. OM still allows her in his life too. She seems to be at all the important events in his life. He says it's because he doesn't have a girlfriend on his arm she can see, so she will continue to chase. I say, tell her to stay out of your life, he says I have several times, she won't listen...I say Bull Cr*p on that...He says he now gets along with her and doesn't want to be mean to her. I say hmmmm, you want me to leave my family and you can't even get your ex of 3 years out of your life....I know for a fact he has been intimate with her on an occassion or two in the past 3 years...so whose being an idiot here???? ME!.... So I suspect that he will end up back with her in time...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Waking Up,

Do I detect a little jealousy here? She must be some special lady to keep telling her H she loves him after what's happened, and a strong and forgiving person to want him back and to work on a new relationship with him. Would you do the same if he cheated on you? If he divorced you for another woman?

I hope you'll agree that him getting back with his W would be a really good thing. Good for him, for his W and especially for their children. And even good for you.. knowing that you didn't help destroy that family.

You are doing the right thing now. So should he.

WakingUp,

I haven't read through all the posts on this thread, but I read your initial one. I'm a WW too. I had a 3 year long affair with a woman. My FIRST encounter with a woman. Very confusing, but that all doesn't matter. My gf was the one who ended the A. It's strange to see your point of view. My gf used to tell me that she was hurting just as badly as I was, when she ended it. We remained "friends" for nearly a year after that, although my heart was broken and all I wanted was to rekindle our relationship. I know what your OM is going through. I gave up a lot for my gf. I NEVER would have done that if I knew it would end like it did. I don't know how I expected it to end. I guess I thought there would be a nicer ending, but she gathered the strength and decided that she wasn't being fair to her kids, nor to her H (whom she wasn't in love with), so she said that she did the hardest thing she ever had to do--she ended it and broke my heart, and then stuck around to try to support me, all the while I reminded her of how hurt I was.

You sound strong, and I admire you for wanting to end it, if that's what you chose to do. Can you direct your OM to get help, support, or therapy? He'll need it. I was in a depression for that entire year, wondering HOW she could have ended it, when all the while she was touting her admiration for me, and saying that I'd be the one to end it. She told me how lucky she was to have me as a friend and a lover, and I believed her. She said that it all just became too much for her to bear--the double life.

Anyway, I guess that if you know your OM will be okay, that's somewhat helpful. Does he have friends or people he can turn toward? He's really not your concern, and I understand that, but when you're the one ending it, I'm sure that you'd want to know that he'll be okay.

Take care and good luck with everything!!

CC

One more thing: I didn't tell you that I'm married and have children too. I told my H about my affair, and he said that he had a strong feeling about it to begin with. He's an amazing person-he tried to forgive me, and he wanted to rebuild our marriage. We started MC and I think I just *might* be coming out of the fog now (it's been 4 months since my gf totally ended everything). I don't know if he'll end up staying with me, but we're trying to make it work. Good luck!

CC

CC-
Thank you very much. I want so much for the OM to have support, he does have family he can talk to and there is a pastor he has talked to occassionally. He is depressed right now, just wanted me to come to him. I think he knows the end is coming and leans on me very hard...As I said in previous posts, I think he will go back to his ex wife...

WakingUp,

I was VERY depressed too when my GF wanted to end our A. I was even suicidal, but she still stuck to her guns and did what she had to do. I didn't believe she'd do it, because she went through this a few times before and then changed her mind. This last time she meant it--that she was trying with all of her might to end the A and just keep our friendship. I'm sure it was very hard on her, after hearing what you had to say. All I could think about was how hard it was on me.

Some advice for you is NOT to go into detail with your OM about your wanting to put your marriage back on the right path. If you're going to explain anything to him, tell him that you want what's best for your children, and don't explain too much--it's too hurtful to him. Tell him that what you experienced with him was real at the time, but that you can't do it any longer. That was the best thing I could have heard from my GF.

Again, good luck to you. It'll take more strength on your part.

CC

I have made several promises to OM, but can't keep them.

1st of all learn one thing. OMs are usually selfish men who don’t care about what happens to your family as long as you give them what they want. They are master manipulators and are also VERY INSECURE even thou they generally appear to be confident.


Let me say in addition to that, I know a life with the OM will not work and I now know I don't really love him.

All studies show that life with OM after the affair is pure hell. If your husband really wanted to punish you he would divorce you so you could live with the OM. Yes, living with the OM when there is no affair would be hell for you. And remember, how the OM told you the sex with his wife was bad? Well---- you will be the next one in line to have lousy sex. Most OM’s are lousy in the sac and only good at it when having an affair.

I can't get over my guilt and the promises I made...crazy I know. OM reminds me constantly how he divorced his W, left his kids, moved and changed jobs so we could have a fresh start. What is sad is through all the promises and plans, I knew I could not leave my family. So now, I have to tell him that I cannot continue to lie to myself and believe we will be together. I am afraid to hurt him…

Get this in your head. The OM is a nobody! Many WW and her OM think they have the most beautiful relationship on Earth--------- solid as a rock! Soul-mates, the whole nine yards. Then on D-day EVERYTHING hits the ground and suddenly THERE IS NOTHING. There is nothing because these relationships are built on NOTHING but lies deception, betrayal. A promise to a nobody is meaningless, I can believe you are worried about this snake.

He says he now gets along with her and doesn't want to be mean to her. I say hmmmm, you want me to leave my family and you can't even get your ex of 3 years out of your life....I know for a fact he has been intimate with her on an occasion or two in the past 3 years...so whose being an idiot here???? ME!.... So I suspect that he will end up back with her in time…

By definition OMs are not faithful! They always play both sides of the fence. It does not matter who is the victim, you the wife, whomever.

I want so much for the OM to have support, he does have family he can talk to and there is a pastor he has talked to occassionally. He is depressed right now, just wanted me to come to him. I think he knows the end is coming and leans on me very hard...As I said in previous posts, I think he will go back to his ex wife…

Would you please read the profile on typical OM. Your guy is the poster child for OM. A complete loser!

<small>[ September 27, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley,
Where is the profile on the typical OM???
I definately want to read it!
Everything you said is what I've been reading and telling myself...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
By definition OMs are not faithful! They always play both sides of the fence. It does not matter who is the victim, you the wife, whomever.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By definition, are WW's always WW's??
Are you a WH or BS?

Click below to get to the thread:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=018553

It is called:

"He'll be different with you--You are special"

If you still believe this I would like to sell you a bridge.

As you can Imagine I am a BS.

My WW had an A with a classic OM who even convinced her that the two of them were not having an affair, but a very special relationship------- they were a couple.

All OM are smooth and by nature know when to say the right words. Please read the profile!

BTW, OMs are often inferior in quality to the BH. True faithful BHs are usually much better men (assuming there is drug usage, wife battery, ect).

OM WILL HELP WW RE-WRITE THE MARITAL HISTORY to justify the affair.

Many OM have other affairs going on at the same time---- very typical. Particularly if they are long distance.

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Thanks Stanley,
I'll check it out..

Waking Up,

How about an update? What has been happening in your life these days? Are you starting to see things a bit differently? Do you need any help?

Must go,

JL

Stanley,

I'm sorry, but is it fair to deem ALL OM's (or OW's) in the same category?? They're all evil, and they all have this plan? Not that I'm holding my exGF (OW) on a pedestal, but she wasn't an evil person who'd done this before. I KNEW her, and even though the end of our A came as a surprise, I knew her motives. She was a human being, capable of loving 2 people (me and her H) at the same time, unfortunately. It wasn't planned, and she wasn't saying and doing things to string me along, nor was I doing that to her. I really take offense at some of this generalized material floating around this board.

Sorry, but I had to vent. And, if it's somehow easier for both husband and wife who've suffered the consequences of an affair to blame it on the OM or OW, then I think thst's really short-sighted and silly. The OM or OW is not purely evil. Choices were simply made that weren't the best. That's all there is to it.

CC

CC

I'm with you on that one. I refuse to believe that all OW/OM are predators. New to MB and had been CONSTANTLY here for the past several days (I have been on vacation for a week, but alone at home and extremely depressed). Too emotionally drained to post my profile/ story though...would be extremely long and involved. Was not even sure I would be welcome here as most who have posted on these forums are BS (I am a WS) Even so...I have found much comfort knowing that I'm not alone...

San San,

Welcome. Read more if you can, and then post your story when you're ready. I've been here for only a short amount of time, but it's been a wonderful place to get some insight. Sometimes it's tough to read some things here, so my advice is to read what you can, and let it sink in, but come back. YOu can read my story on "My Internet Affair" in this section if you're curious. Maybe it'll help. Take care!!

CC

San San,

P.S. Sorry to hear you're depressed. It comes with the territory, unfortunately. Are you seeing anyone? Maybe between therapy and a mild antidepressant you'd feel a little better? I wish you well, and we'll talk more when you're up for it. Take care.

CC

I have nothing against OWs or WWs. Their reasons and motivations for falling into an A are very different from the average OM. The latter are on the look for a score and they simply know how to pick the right Wife or single woman who is looking to hear some nice words.

Sure, there are some OWs who are looking for a roll in the hay and nothing else, but they are in the minority. However, most OMs fit a profile of dishonesty and lies. If you had four daughters like I do you would worry about someone with that profile.

Would you like one of those nice OM to marry your daughter knowing quite well he will cheat on her?

Hi JL,
I am just wondering, am I really that blind?? Does the OM really have evil, alterior motives?
I find it hard to believe, but the majority says it's true.
I want to ask a FOM or FWH some questions, do you know of any?
Thanks

San San
Welcome to MB's. As CC said, it's a good place to get advice. There is lots of wisdom and experience here to help.
Take care!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ConfusedCheater:
<strong>I'm sorry, but is it fair to deem ALL OM's (or OW's) in the same category?? They're all evil, and they all have this plan?
*****
And, if it's somehow easier for both husband and wife who've suffered the consequences of an affair to blame it on the OM or OW, then I think thst's really short-sighted and silly. The OM or OW is not purely evil. Choices were simply made that weren't the best. That's all there is to it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd like to chime in here being a BS who knows a few WS personally.

Of course no OW or OM is "evil" by definition. Some might be, but most aren't. And I think yes, it's funny how some tend to blame the A on the OP because that's just easier to accept.

I think the main problem that needs to be addressed in people who have A's is the fact that they simply don't know how to solve their problems in an other way than to look for excitement, comfort, warmth, whatever they crave, in an OP rather than work on themselves, on the M or get a D in the worst case. Having a A simply isn't fair to any of the parties involved, therefore it creates nothing but misery in the end. But hindsight is always 20/20.

Of course the BS can have these exact same problems that need to be addressed. They just didn't look for a solution outside of the M, although I must add, "yet" in some cases. I guess many times it's just running into the wrong person at the wrong time.

IMHO the main problem is that we think others will make our life meaningful and complete, that we just have to find the "right" others. So we keep looking all our lives. We get disappointed when they don't fulfill us (anymore) the way we want them to. We then remain in the relationship, frustrated, and maybe we'll have an A when someone comes along who seems to be so "right".. For a little while we really believe we have found the solution now to fill that hole inside our soul.. Maybe we keep it up many, many years, feeding this illusion of perfect love without ever testing it to reality, lying and cheating to the ones who put their trust in us.

There is no "perfect other", no knight in shining armour or lady in distress that needs to be saved. We have to BE the knight and save our own inner lady. It seems both the BS and the WS needs to face that challenge to become the good and loving person we so desperately look for outside of us.

At least.. that's my conclusion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Wake Up,

Since you asked I will offer my opinion. First, I must say this has been debated many times here and there is usually not a consensus on many details but on others there is.

So with that said, you asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does the OM really have evil, alterior motives?
I find it hard to believe, but the majority says it's true.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think to address this, one needs to organize it abit, then make some simple observations.

OM come in two categories: Married and Single
Within each category there is a sub category:
one time/first time OM and OM who have had multiple affairs.

OW come in two categories: Married and Single

Within each category there is a sub category:
One time/first time OW and OW who have had multiple affairs.

Ok, now if one considers the OM or the OW that has had multiple affairs while either married or not married, I would say they fall into that classification of having ulterior motives and a severe lack of respect for marriage or the people hurt by the affairs.

Traditionally, the male has been the one to have affairs, and who is the serial cheater, hence the characterization that has been voiced here. However, in this "enlightened" age the number of women having affairs and mulitple affairs has grown to almost match the men's, aren't you ladies proud? Equality! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> My tacky comment aside, I think both male and females that indulge in the games of multiple affairs and revel in the excitment of it meet the characterization nicely.

So that leaves another two categories: married or single, with single affairs. The singles who have affairs with a married person, show a lack of understanding of the institution of marriage (not surprising given how even married couples often lack this understanding as demonstrated by the divorce rate). Are they evil or have alterior motives other than falling for someone that is married? I don't think so. I think they are just human beings who are making decisions based on feelings and without consideration of the people who will be hurt.

Let's address married having a single affair. Now they did take vows, they did make a commitment, they claimed to understand the sancitity (sp) of marriage, and with today's liberal divorce laws if the marriage was that bad why did they not leave? There are reasons for not leaving, but having an affair is very very selfish, and destructive, but is it the process of an evil person with alterior motives other than to be happy? I don't think so.

I think it is the process of thinking with "feelings" rather than considering the ramifications of what they do to other people, and the importance of the vows they took. There is a reason that "vows" are said, and that most religions embrace marriage, it is not an easy thing to be "married" to another individual. It takes work, sacrifice, adjustments, flexibility, support, and a certain vigilance to make a good marriage.

I think in the case of single affairs, what is being seen is a lack in one or more of those traits on the part of both parties in the marriage.

So on the whole, I don't think an OM is much different from an OW, and most of the time neither of them are evil or have alterior motives, other than a complete disregard for the marriage they are in or the marriage they are messing with. There are however predetors and they seem to be mostly men who have multiple affairs and they focus on married women whether they are married or not.

There are more than a few posters who have OM involved in their marriage which meet the requirements as I defined them: having multiple affairs, and always looking for the next one. These guys are truel scum in my mind, but there is no denying their skill in seducing a vulnerable married woman.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to ask a FOM or FWH some questions, do you know of any? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is a thread in GQ that is addressed to FWH's. You have sevaral FWW posting to you now. Many of the really strong posters that where FOM/FWH's don't seem to be posting at the moment, but they general cycle back to help people. If I see one, I will send him here.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

WakingUP- I also feel the same guilt you feel towards the OM. My A was discovered on 6-1-04 by my husband <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It has been a roller coaster of emotions since then. The OM thought I was going to divorce my husband to make a life with him. But, just like you, I cannot see myself been happy with him. I know it would not work!! But I feel so guilty, because he thought , the OM, that him and I were meant to be. For a time I thought that too, but now I am starting to realize I was involved in complete madness!!! About two weeks ago, I finally closed "the door" to the OM, because he realized that HIM and I, were not going to be together. I hurt him very deeply, I know that, and that also bothers me a lot, because thats not what I wanted. I wish nobody has to suffer, but at the end we all do!!!
My husband and I are trying to rebuild our marriage, I have told him intimate details with the OM. We have been thru, fights,anger,depresion, indifference, hate,everything, since it was discovered.
Thanks to the help of everyone here, especially JL,Believer,Kiwi, and my Husband, I am coming out of the so called FOG! I know we have a long way to go still, but hopefully we will get there!
I dont think that all OMs and OWs are bad people, despite what everyone says here. We all get involved in a web, and it is difficult to realize it and come out of it!
Myrta!