San San:

Thanks for being so talkative, it helps.

I want to know everything, but my wife thinks I want the sex details. NO!---------------- I want to understand how these things develop. I am monogamous by nature; I am not wired for affairs. I can only have one woman in my life at a time. I don't claim to be more moral, ethical, or religious than anyone else. I simply cannot handle more than one relationship at a time. My son is the same way and he left his wife to pursue another relationship when he found himself to be unhappy. Many advised him to cheat and he simply could not do it.

So as you see------ it is very hard for me to understand WHY my wife did this. I have slowly accepted that the affair probably has nothing to do with me. There is probably nothing I could have done. The OM appeared at a time when my wife wanted to do it. She was 49 and I had been her only sex partner---- then the OM appears and he is from out of town and very smooth (as all OMs should). My wife has been my only sex partner and I had some curiosity when I was in my 20s. But, years ago I accepted that there was something special about the fact that we were both virgins and exclusive to each other. All that is out the window!

I wish I could understand that so-called fog. My wife will not cough money unless there is very important reason to do so. She is very good with money-- way better than I am. Therefore, I gave her ALL I ever had. I never know how much money I have in my checking account or savings. So she spends money on the OM and I don’t know about it. I never check how she spends the money. It does not matter whether it was $2.00 or $20,000.00. The issue is that the OM pumped her for money and that is VERY nasty.


This so hard for me---- I love and have loved this woman more than anything and had her on a pedestal all my life. Do you know how much it hurts to be betrayed by the one you love the most?

Regarding withdrawal:

I have not seen my wife cry at all or express to me she misses the OM. However, one day she had misty eyes for about two seconds--- that is the extent of it.

Some more questions:

1. Did you loved your husband when you were having sex with the OM? Sorry for the nasty question, but my wife keeps saying she loved me the entire time. JL, the MAN feels otherwise-------- I don’t think I was in the radar screen at all.

2. Did you have more or less sex with H during the affair?
3. You say is not about sex. How was the sex? Be honest.
4. Is your H intimidated by the OM? I am not intimidated at all. Not jealousy, it is a different sensation.
5. You said your H is not sure he will stay in the marriage? Why is that? I have promised my wife I will stay married to her and will only divorce her if she re-starts the affair.

Regarding money:

I will not ask for it. I don’t want to have any contact with OM who probably thinks I am cheap because it was not a lot of money. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!!! IT IS THE PRINCIPLE!!!

Stanley said, Why? I want to know why someone gives up a soul mate just like that.

Still having a difficult time with that one...kinda falls on the same lines of how i could consciously/willingly hurt the ones I claim to love. A "soul mate" IMO is someone you've emotionally/spiritually connected with on the highest level. Some people never find their soul mates and then there are others who have, but are not married to them for whatever reason. A soul mate may not necessarily have all the ingredients for a happy, successful marriage...oh, back to the original question ...it's definitely not easy to give up a soul mate...but think of it this way...your W has chosen YOU!!! Can anyone else here elaborate on the concept of "soul mates"?

TooMuchCoffeeMan said, "Forgive me for asking but why then did you chose to have sex with the OM for 6 months?

You say that you cried since the PA started in March yet you continued having sex with the OM until the beginning of September, how come? [I ask you this with the utmost respect and only for the purposes of seeking knowlege]. Thanks in advance.

Thanx for being so respectful...had read a warning 'bout flying 2x4's in someone's signature line <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It REALLY wasn't about sex...but we did eventually make love because of the way we felt for each other. Both of us had tremendous guilt about that, but have always managed to see nothing else when we were together in our "fairy tale" world. Don't know if this even matters, but...i can count the times with less than all the fingers on my hands.

Stanley,
Get back to your questions late tomorrow evening. Goodnite ALL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Stanley,

CC here. I don't know if my answers could help you, but I'll post them anyway. You asked:

1. Did you loved your husband when you were having sex with the OM? Sorry for the nasty question, but my wife keeps saying she loved me the entire time. JL, the MAN feels otherwise-------- I don’t think I was in the radar screen at all.

Yes, I loved my husband when I was having sex with the OW (in my case). As a matter of fact, she stayed in my house the first time we met in "real life". We had sex, I went to bed and then had sex with my husband. I was happy that I was able to share myself with 2 people whom I loved deeply. Somehow it all seemed okay.

2. Did you have more or less sex with H during the affair?

My H and I had sex often, even before the A. I'd say 3-6 times a week. It continued at the same pace for a while.

3. You say is not about sex. How was the sex? Be honest.

The sex with my OW was different (of course--she was a woman, and my H is a man!!), but both WONDERFUL sex partners. She fulfilled me in a different way than a man could. It was as though we connected in a more spiritual, deep way.

4. Is your H intimidated by the OM? I am not intimidated at all. Not jealousy, it is a different sensation.

My H wasn't intimidated by her. He thought that my attention to her was odd, and he questioned if often. I shrugged it off, citing that she was my "friend". I'd have to say that the more jealous he got, the more possessive of me he became, and it started our downfall.

5. You said your H is not sure he will stay in the marriage? Why is that? I have promised my wife I will stay married to her and will only divorce her if she re-starts the affair.

My A with this woman lasted over 2 years. She ended the sex last July (of '03), but we still had SOME sexual contact after that and I was still in love with her. We remained friends for nearly a year. She insisted on NC on May 16, 2004. I told my H the truth 2 days after that. He said that if she had been a man, he'd have left me. He still loves me (so he says) and wants to work on our marriage. We're in MC (since June). I still love him and want to be with him, but I"m not sexually attracted to ANYONE right now and am suffering with guilt, low self-esteem and confusion (sexual identity confusion too). We both are working on our relationship though, and we'll see where it takes us.

Hope that helps you, Stanley. I also wanted to tell you that *I* was the "dreamer" in my A, BUT, my girlfriend certainly was into the whole dream with me for a long time. It certainly wasn't one-sided, and I wasn't delusional. I was in dreamland, hoping she'd change her mind and still want me back, and when that didn't happen, I was crushed. Still am. Still can't figure it out, other than to say that she'd be losing a hell of a lot if she chose a life with me (financial support from her parents; possible custody issues that her H said she'd suffer; "status" in her community, etc...). She also wanted what was best for her 2 young children (6 and 9), and wanted a life with her H above all, if that was possible. She painted him as someone who did NOT fulfill her. He left her feeling alone and not loved. At least that's how she painted it to me! It's how it seemed when I met him too, although he was nice enough to me. Anyway, hope this helps! Take care!

CC

san san no i havnt posted the whole story its a long story my A drove my h to madness he had 3 revenge affairs and im miserable

always managed to see nothing else when we were together in our "fairy tale" world.

Yes, by definition affairs are conducted in Disneyland and it takes folks who are somewhat gullible to fall into that trap. As JL says one must also be selfish--------------------- yes it is an extremely selfish thing to do. I would say if anyone has such strong feelings for someone else------------------------------------- come out clean and break the relationship to pursue the other individual. Whatever happen to honesty?


*I* was the "dreamer" in my A, BUT, my girlfriend certainly was into the whole dream

Sure, my wife’s OM is a dreamer. However, the whole time my wife was in the affair she was certain that she would not leave the marriage. My wife also knew that the affair would end and she was waiting for that. She tried to break up the affair many times, but the OM convinced Myrta it was not an affair, but a beautiful love story.

I wrote an email to the OM and asked him who in his right mind would fall in love with another woman who slept naked with another man (the H) 24/7. I asked him if this was logical. I know for sure I would not want to be in love with a woman that is far away in someone else’s bed. Where is the logic? Lets face it, there is none.

Stanley,
You asked why we didn't elope. For me I knew what I was doing was wrong, it was wrong to do this to my kids, it was wrong to cheat on my husband, it was just wrong! However, OM met a very deep need for me, as Myrta said "He had a good way of conversing, he truly looked interested in what I had to say, my husband did not". He took the time to know me, he was very gentle with my heart, he worshipped the ground I walked on, spent time with me without having sex. He made me feel like I was the only one on earth.
Now, enter real life: Could he be the father my H was to our kids? No. Not because he wasn't a good person, my kids would never allow it. H is a good dad. Could he provide for me financially? Yes. Looking at his overall personality, could he really make me happy, is he the kind of person I want? I had to ask myself this honestly and the answer is no. I was extremely attracted to some of his personality, but not all. So, why didn't I elope, because he didn't meet all my needs, only some and he definately couldn't meet my kid's needs of a loving father, stability, etc.
You also asked San San several questions, I answered them for myself and found my answers very critical of husband. I heard a statement once that a woman has to despise her husband before she can give herself permission to have an affair. I did that, now I have to retrain my thoughts and heart to open up to him and trust him with my heart.

TMCM-
Why do we have sex with OM? When OM tended to my heart I was able to be with him and nothing else mattered. What I am saying to all husbands can't be said enough, your wife's heart is very fragile, treat it like fine china. If you do that, you will reap tremendous benefits. Our heart is our very life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Waking Up:

TMCM-
Why do we have sex with OM? When OM tended to my heart I was able to be with him and nothing else mattered. What I am saying to all husbands can't be said enough, your wife's heart is very fragile, treat it like fine china. If you do that, you will reap tremendous benefits. Our heart is our very life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good advice but I would like to offer something of equal value. A marriage is also like fine china and not all BS are so loving and forgiving of their WS affair to want to continue the marriage after D-day. There have been quite a number of repentant WS who have come to MB seeking advice because they desperately want to save and rebuild their marriages but their BS do not and have filed for divorce. If you are lucky that your BS does not want to end the marriage don't get into the false beleif that this will always be the case. Many BS that initially said they would like to save and rebuild their marriages have changed their minds after weeks of being on the involuntary emotional rollercoaster and left the WS and the marriage. The people here at MB [BS and WS] are good people that are doing heroic efforts to save their marriages and families but they only represent a small sector of the marriages that have been impacted by infidelity and do not share the views that MB members share.

TMCM
I know what you say is true. I am trying not to take advantage of my H and his desire to mend the marriage.
Your advice humbles me a little more..
Why in all the counseling I had over the past few years I'm only now starting to see?
I've received more truth and hard facts from MB's than anywhere else.

WU,

Ark, has an interesting response to you on your other thread. You should read it carefully, because it dovetails nicely with what TMCM's post. You are "burning daylight" with this affair, and while you are, you marriage becomes harder and harder to rebuild. You have a lot to do to change your perspective.

You asked about MB vs. counseling. Well, you were NOT in marriage counseling right? You were in IC, the goal of which is to make YOU feel better about yourself. That is a pretty "soft" goal, and thus there is NOT a lot of meat to it often. Here we are about the marriage, and the interactions between people, and there are strategies for addressing these issues, hence you do hear more "facts" and more strongly worded suggestions to work on this, because that is a defined thing.

Plus there are some MC's out there that are NOT very good.

Must go.

JL

Thank you JL...
Yes, I did read Arks reply on other thread.
WU

Dear All,

someone asked to go into the "soulmate" thing. In my experience (which is not A-related!) in a metaphysical sense a soulmate
a) can be your father, mother, sister, brother, grandmother, son, daughter.. someone whom you only met very briefly.. some close friend..
b) is someone who is very much the same as you are, who "vibrates" at the same wavelength
c) such a person (especially when young) usually can irritate you.. they are so much like you that seeing someone else having those same irritating features..
d) is someone you love to hate.. and learn to love more and more as you learn to love yourself

So in my opinion this "soulmate" thing in A's is really an inappropriate term. Knight in shining armour, damsel in distress perhaps.. but soulmates? Nah. I think few people would have such a strong attraction to a real soulmate. That would mean you're in a very good place with yourself and people starting an A mostly aren't.

I also wonder how someone who doesn't care about other people's feelings (your or his partner) can be a knight in shining armor. I think a true knight would love you from a distance, let you work out what you want to do with your M without interfering and just wishing you to be happy. Not steal your self-respect by making/helping you lie and cheat.

JL-
I've read through some other threads, your advice reminds me of something a wise, loving but stern grandfather would say....
What's your story?

WU:

Stanley,
You asked why we didn't elope. For me I knew what I was doing was wrong, it was wrong to do this to my kids, it was wrong to cheat on my husband, it was just wrong! However, OM met a very deep need for me, as Myrta said "He had a good way of conversing, he truly looked interested in what I had to say, my husband did not". He took the time to know me, he was very gentle with my heart, he worshipped the ground I walked on, spent time with me without having sex. He made me feel like I was the only one on earth.

As I said, all OMs talk that way----------- they are smooth. However, most of these OMs have a history of infidelity and not been able to keep a marriage or long-term relationship. When the tough gets going in their relationship they bail out! You see in a paradoxical manner these OMs also want to be told how great they are on a regular basis (and the WW provides that with great regularity). They want to be told they are great lovers and they seek the gratification of romantic enchantment 24/7. As soon as the latter is gone in their relationship they don&#8217;t tough it out.

Most OMs appear to be great lovers, but when you contact other prior women who were involved with them you almost always find out a man who is selfish, dishonest, and not a very good lover. I pride myself into being able to make love to my wife with pretty good intensity despite knowing her all of my life. In my early 50s I was still making love twice a week religiously and the frequency only went down because she met the OM and I thought she had lost interest in sex. Now that my interest is peaked I could do it all day! I would like the OM to pull something like that on a long-term relationship. But, you and I know that is not the truth------------ the average OMs fails very bad once the relationship matures and that may be a couple of years at most.

Now, enter real life: Could he be the father my H was to our kids? No. Not because he wasn't a good person, my kids would never allow it. H is a good dad. Could he provide for me financially? Yes. Looking at his overall personality, could he really make me happy, is he the kind of person I want? I had to ask myself this honestly and the answer is no. I was extremely attracted to some of his personality, but not all. So, why didn't I elope, because he didn't meet all my needs, only some and he definitely couldn't meet my kid's needs of a loving father, stability, etc.

Honestly, I give Myrta a lot of credit. The last thing she wanted to do was elope. And you are correct I probably supplied the overwhelming majority of the ENs and only failed with the romance. Whether I failed or not is relative. I think I failed Myrta, but I would bet that many other women would have been happy with my efforts in that department.

I think some of my marital history was re-written, but I am not bitter, that is par for the course.

It seems your affair lasted so long that you fell out of love with H. I am lucky, I think Myrta loves me about 10-15% and that could improve!

Hang in there JM 33...will be looking for your story

Take care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Stanley said, I want to know everything, but my wife thinks I want the sex details. NO!---I want to understand how these things develop. I am monogamous by nature; I am not wired for affairs. I can only have one woman in my life at a time. I don't claim to be more moral, ethical, or religious than anyone else. I simply cannot handle more than one relationship at a time.

Can't remember the source but as i remember it...humans are NOT monogamous by nature...we make a conscious choice to be...mostly governed by the rules of society...Think i read this here on MB --- EVERYONE is wired for affairs...so that, too, is a conscious decision. All that aside, I feel very much the same as you. NEVER, NEVER in my life would I have imagined myself in this situation, having caused this nightmare. Thus the internal struggle, "who am I"

And yes, it would be almost entirely impossible to handle more than one honest, loving, committed relationship...

Stanley said, "My wife has been my only sex partner and I had some curiosity when I was in my 20s. But, years ago I accepted that there was something special about the fact that we were both virgins and exclusive to each other. All that is out the window!"

I was my H's first and that's always been very special to me...however, H was my second...think he, too, had some curiousity...and acted on it seven years into our relationship.

It IS amazingly beautiful for two people to have joined in marriage the way you and Myrta have...but that, in itself, is not the only reason you love her. Will you ever be able to look past that? My H also has a difficult time with that...saying that the A robbed our relationship and I, of the innocence, purity that it once had...that i am now a completely different person than he loved and married. I do feel very insecure...that he can NEVER love me the way he used to. Will he ever look at me and not see what I've done to our marriage?

Stanley, you said, "This so hard for me---- I love and have loved this woman more than anything and had her on a pedestal all my life. Do you know how much it hurts to be betrayed by the one you love the most?"

I think everyone here feels your pain...as well as Myrta's...and would wish the two of you an easier recovery. Have you gained any insight over the past few days reading her posts?

And yeah, I B]DO[/B] know how much it hurts to be betrayed by the one you love the most. A year ago, I would've bet my life to say I would never betray another since it's happened to me.

Stanley, your questions:
1. Did you loved your husband when you were having sex with the OM? Sorry for the nasty question, but my wife keeps saying she loved me the entire time. JL, the MAN feels otherwise-------- I don’t think I was in the radar screen at all.
I loved H throughout the entire A...but probably had fallen out of love with him. I think all radars malfunction while at Disney Land...just too much interference <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
2. Did you have more or less sex with H during the affair?
Much less...and it started with the EA...almost non-existent when turned PA. I cannot be with more than one...emotionally, physically, spiritually.
3. You say is not about sex. How was the sex? Be honest.
It was infrequent...we tried not to cuz it was WRONG. Most times the "act" was never completed for those same reasons. But...being with him was wonderful...even if only to lay next to him in his arms
4. Is your H intimidated by the OM? I am not intimidated at all. Not jealousy, it is a different sensation.
Intimidated? Not sure...H does wonder how he measures against OM in the SF dept. I'm sure there's gotta be a little jealousy too...since now someone else has what was once exclusive to you. H knows he's the better man. He's told me on multiple occasions that he would completely understand if I had chosen someone better than him and would wish me happiness with the OM and reflect on his failures/inadequacies and grow from them. So, just like you, he wonders what about the OM was so attractive.
5. You said your H is not sure he will stay in the marriage? Why is that? I have promised my wife I will stay married to her and will only divorce her if she re-starts the affair.
DD in mid-June...i've put him through hell...he wanted to work on the M and he insisted on NC...but i wasn't ready or willing to do that, i wanted my "friendship" along with the marriage. So the EA continued, with e-mail, phone calls. Frustrated, and unable to live life the way it was (i was an emotional wreck, extremely depressed, couldn't eat, sleep)...H and I set a date for separation. Went to visit OM last week of August with H's knowledge (thinking M was over) Then came back and agreed to NC. I know lots of holes, but will post story one of these days. I'm sure most BS would have a difficult time accepting the WS back if A continued after DD. H was angry and hurt that I'd do that with his full knowledge.