San San--------------regarding monogamy. SURE, I could be unfaithful to. In fact when I see a beautiful woman. I wonder what it would be like. I guess I don't do it because I follow the golden rule. Rather simple:

Therefore married women are off limits, as I would not do that to another man. If the woman was single I would worry about misleading her------ so I will not go there. If I have to deceive my wife------- no. If marooned in a deserted island---- probably yes assuming no deception. BTW, I would not allow myself to fall in love to use that as an excuse. IT is not really that hard.

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My OM thinks the same things as Myrta's OM, the big difference is I did tell him I was leaving and the affair did last 6 years. We were both wanting the same thing, I just couldn't go through with it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Waking Up - Okay, I think I understand what's been running through your mind. My wife's affair was 6 years long, she had accepted his proposal of marriage, had the divorce papers drawn up, had her own secret apartment the last year to satisfy the separation requirements of the State, chose the OM when the three of us had our final confrontation (I told her to come home, pack, and leave that night), regretted her choice the moment she drove out of our driveway for the "last time," took 2 years to break contact after we began recovery...

What is "real love?" It is sacrificial, Agape love, in the face of insurmountable pain and anguish. It is "I choose to love her even if I die and even if she is the one twisting the knife deeper and deeper." It is a willingness to live the rest of your life with the scars and painful reminders and the certain knowledge that despite all the words and remorse....you were not enough.
Despite all the shortcomings in the marriage, you chose honor and faithfulness and your spouse chose otherwise. A willingness to learn to trust again after you've had it proven that you wre are total fool to trust so blindly, that perhaps now, you spouse will truly choose honor and faithfulness "until death do us part." Failure as a man, failure as a husband, rejection of the deepest and cruelest kind. Think of the most excruciating torture you could inflict on someone....and they can't understand how you could do it and claim to "love them"... but they choose to love you and forgive you anyway and to endure any pain to reestablish a loving and committed marriage with YOU.

Think of a changed life....not keeping one foot physically or mentally in the life of sin and justifications. Total change. No room for "second mistakes."

Disentanglement...totally. Seeing deep into the OP's soul to see that "evil," and the OP's comfort with doing evil things just so long as they get what they want, is at the core. Say, do, and act anyway that gives the appearance of being a "good person" when the groundrules are quite clear...."thou shalt NOT covet." Self-deluded, they think that what they are doing is "normal," and "hey, everyone is doing it."

Change is possible, but not without changing the core. Ultimately, it is that core that controls...evil begets evil and holiness begets godliness...we cannot serve two masters.

I, for one, know what Stanley is going through. The resentment is huge. And unless the core is changed it will consume him and the marriage. "Nice people" do not rob banks, steal from others, entice others to use addictive narcotics, exploit others for their personal gain, lie, cheat, slander, and run from reality.

Some of the "nicest" appearing people on earth have been quite engaging in personality.("Hello Monica, this is Slick Willy...) They KNOW how to act and how to manipulate to get what they want. The sooner the WS wakes up to that fact, the sooner the resentment that the BS is feeling can be lessened and eventually released.
"Choose ye THIS DAY whom ye will serve...."
"You cannot serve two masters, either you will love the one and hate the other, or you will hate the one and love the other."
"A double-minded person knows no peace."

"Go and leave your life of sin."
Leave and cleave to your spouse ALONE.

The "fog" is thick and we BS's know that and pray for the day when it lifts totally and our WS's really see what the OP is like without all the false makeup and sheeps clothing. We pray for the day when our WS's really "come home" for good, forsaking everything and anything for US.

That's why we accept the "long haul." Because we love and wait and hope...and know that it will take a lot of time even though we'd "prefer" it to be "fixed immediately." "Love is patient, love is kind...."

ForeverHers,
How long have you been in recovery and how is your wife?

San San:

Sorry I could not get to all your posts. I tried to do so last night from my hotel room where they have like a toy Internet hooked to a regular TV. It did not worked very well!

One more thing about monogamy:

I will be honest----- I would love to have a harem and a different woman for everyday of the week. I don’t blame my wife or any other woman for wanting extramarital sex. We are all programmed to spread our seed as much as possible. If you find a way to do this without been deceitful let me know! I have a problem with the lying and cheating; the desire to get it on with someone else is natural.


And yes, it would be almost entirely impossible to handle more than one honest, loving, committed relationship...

So in a sense you were been faithful to the OM! I think Myrta felt the same way even though she has never said so. Once there is intimate emotional connection faithfulness is rather easy. And to achieve the latter there must be a subconscious act to disconnect emotionally from the BH. And of course, the marital history is re-written to justify the affair.

BTW, the OM will be an active participant in the alteration of the marital history. In this instance it is even worse as this is done consciously to get the WW in the sac. In my case the OM reaffirmed to my wife over and over that our marriage was essentially over and that there was NO MORE LOVE. My wife claims she told the OM "she never hated me" (a cumbersome way of saying I love him). I am not sure what she meant by that, but I believe she was avoiding sending a love buster to the OM. It is well known that to say “I love my husband” to the OM is a major cold shower! I am sure you never professed your love for your husband on a regular basis to your OM. The OM also told my wife he was 100% sure I was having an affair. Ahh----- OMs judge others from their own condition. I must give Myrta a lot of credit as she vehemently told the OM I was not unfaithful. In an email I intercepted from the OM to my wife he talks about the fact that my wife is such a great woman that she never thrashed her husband.

It is amazingly beautiful for two people to have joined in marriage the way you and Myrta have...but that, in itself, is not the only reason you love her. Will you ever be able to look past that? My H also has a difficult time with that...saying that the A robbed our relationship and I, of the innocence, purity that it once had...that I am now a completely different person than he loved and married. I do feel very insecure...that he can NEVER love me the way he used to. Will he ever look at me and not see what I've done to our marriage?

San San there is something very special when you and your wife have no prior sexual experience. Basically there is NO BAGGAGE and no one compares anything. The sex in itself has an innocence that grows naturally until the couple discovers and explores everything together without any preconceived ideas. Sure. I read books and everything else to move to the next level------- we even used fantasies and did crazy things. But this is done within a context of innocence. An old Chinese proverb says that innocence is one of those things that can never be recovered once is lost.

You ask how do I look at Myrta now. Well I am starting to look at her in the same old way, but I am somewhat uneasy when I have sex with her because the body of the OM is fresh on her system and I know she is also uneasy. So now I have to deal with this stressor. I also feel very weird after reaching orgasm because I suddenly come down from the Nirvana of pleasure and realize that the OM was dozing of for a few minutes on top of Myrta just like I do. Then I realize how incredibly intimate that position is and it hurts! Before hand is not that bad because one is sexually excited.

And yeah, I DO know how much it hurts to be betrayed by the one you love the most. A year ago, I would've bet my life to say I would never betray another since it's happened to me.

Can you tell me about your OM?

What is his relationship history?

Is he married too?

Why did you do it?


I loved H throughout the entire A...but probably had fallen out of love with him. I think all radars malfunction while at Disney Land...just too much interference

Wow! You are getting better. To admit you were in Disneyland is a HUGE positive step!

BTW, I sent the OM a lot of information about the dynamic of affairs and how the relationship is built on basically nothing but fantasy, deceit, secrecy, ect. In a sense is a private club with just two members. Now you can see why the folks in the affair call each other soul mates. I explained the OM how he lived in Disneyland and how his whole world crumbled with just one simple phone call. What kind of normal relationship dies like that? I also explained to him that it was highly illogical to love a woman who slept with another man every night with just underwear or no clothes. Well, the OM kept calling my wife and told her this was no affair and that everything was solid and very real. With this basis he insisted that my wife should break the marriage and elope with him. Now this is coming from a man who needed psych help to deal with the grief of destroying his own marriage and causing extreme harm to his children. In fact one of Myrta’s accomplishments was to help the OM overcome this grief. But, now the OM wants my wife to break her marriage and inflict the same devastation and pain on our children. Do you see how incredibly selfish OMs are? They also have very poor contact with reality.

But...being with him was wonderful...even if only to lay next to him in his arms

You were emotionally connected! As JL would say--------- you were madly in love with this man even though he was vastly inferior to your husband. You know what? It could have been anyone else! Sometimes the WW is simply in love with the reflection of the mirror that the OM provides. It is a fairy tale and the mirror always says you are the prettiest one!

Intimidated? Not sure...H does wonder how he measures against OM in the SF dept. I'm sure there's gotta be a little jealousy too...since now someone else has what was once exclusive to you. H knows he's the better man. He's told me on multiple occasions that he would completely understand if I had chosen someone better than him and would wish me happiness with the OM and reflect on his failures/inadequacies and grow from them. So, just like you, he wonders what about the OM was so attractive.

There was very little that is attractive about the OM. His only attraction is his smooth talk. Everything else is garbage. But lets concentrate on the smooth talk. I know my wife loved how the OM talked and how it made her feel so good. Have you ever met a deceitful con man who is not a smooth talker? You know—it comes with the territory! I would say that if you compare BHs with no prior history of infidelity (true faithful BHs) you will find that the OMs cannot compete very well. That is why relationships between WWs and OMs almost never flourish when they try to make it outside the fairy tale of the affair. The reality of the OM is always devastating to the relationship.

BTW, I have no problem in admitting that the sex with the OM and my wife was more explosive. After all it was all new!

DD in mid-June...i've put him through hell...he wanted to work on the M and he insisted on NC...but i wasn't ready or willing to do that, i wanted my "friendship" along with the marriage. So the EA continued, with e-mail, phone calls.

I guess my wife did the same, but it was more like trying to let the OM go easy rather than harshly. However, think Myrta also needed to let herself go easy as well!

Frustrated, and unable to live life the way it was (i was an emotional wreck, extremely depressed, couldn't eat, sleep)...H and I set a date for separation. Went to visit OM last week of August with H's knowledge (thinking M was over) Then came back and agreed to NC. I know lots of holes, but will post story one of these days. I'm sure most BS would have a difficult time accepting the WS back if A continued after DD. H was angry and hurt that I'd do that with his full knowledge.

Please do----- I would like to hear more!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ForeverHers,
How long have you been in recovery and how is your wife? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Waking Up - 2 years and 4 months...but who's counting?

Contact with the OM ended for good (I've had no evidence to the contrary) about 6 months ago. We've been essentially "recovered" for about 3 to 4 months. Still dealing with some things from time to time (the memories are permanent) but nothing that hasn't been manageable.

I guess it's mainly because I believe the "I love you's" and I'm most of the way back on the trust issue. We seldom talk about the affair and I think it's an essential part of recovery to NOT dwell on the affair.

Stanley,

Hate to butt in here, but I wanted to tell you that I am getting something out of reading your posts. I *do* see myself and my OW in some of the things you said. It helps clarify some things.

One things I wanted to say was that both she and I freely spoke about our husbands, saying that we loved them. Yes, we (mainly she) spoke badly about them, and about how they irked us or didn't give us enough, but we DID repeatedly speak highly of them, saying how we HATED that they'd be so hurt if they knew about our A. We often said that we loved them but that we weren't IN LOVE with them. We'd both say that we had each other's hearts, and that we were in our marriages just for the children and b/c we did still feel attached to them. Selfish, I know.

I *do* know that more than anything, my OW would have preferred to have her marriage be "fixed" the way she needed it to be. Maybe that's what I was to her--maybe it shook her H up and made him pay attention to their marriage now. Maybe she got what she wanted. Her big fear was that I'd fall back in love with my H and have fastasy-like life that I once had with him.

Hope that helps.

CC

CC:

Within the context of the affair the WW or WH almost never say "I love my spouse". That would be like a cold shower for the OM or OW. They would rather hear the the WSs talk about their relationship problems since this will provide (the OM or OW) a gret angle to exploit and to appear sympathetic and understanding. I must say this is MUCH MORE important for an OM who is initially looking to score. This is different for women who are after the emotional need angle.

When a WIFE tells another man she is having a relationship problem she is saying I am vulnerable for an affair (whether consciously or not). Obviously the two of you were in that wave. It is a little bit of a tightrope walk to say nice things about the spouse, but at the same time imply there are relationship problems. I am sure you both did it quite well.

As for Myrta I give her a lot of credit---- she never said anything nasty about my person to the OM. How do I know that? I intercepted an email OM wrote after D-day where he was praising Myrta and stated that she was such a great woman that she never said anything derogatory about her husband. I actually believe that------- In fact many times the OM told Myrta that I was having an affair too and that she should not feel guilty. Myrta knows I am not likely to do that. So she defended me and told the OM she seriously doubted I was unfaithful. The OM advised Myrta to hire a detective to get the evidence.

You said the two of you were selfish---------- in the end--------- selfishness is a big component of the affair.

Have you met a drug addict who was not selfish about his drug use? Heck--- many steal from their own parents to support the addiction. So it is not uncommon for folks in affairs to do nasty things to keep the affair going. They are addicted to the high!

I had no idea your GF and you fought so much. I thought that came at the end. From your posts it seems she really wants to try to work on her marriage whereas you would have gladly eloped with her. Obviously the two of you are in completely different states of mind and that is why the affair is dying.

Good luck!


CIAO!

Stanley,

I guess my A *was* a little different. My OW and I did speak nicely of our husbands, and we both freely admitted to loving them. When I'd be at her house, seeing her interact with her H, or she'd be here, seeing us interact, it hurt a little. She and her H acted playful, but more like friends. It was apparent what their relationship consisted of. She'd tell me though that she'd be "put in her place" when she saw my H and I, since he was possessive and loving of me and always WANTED to be with me. The 3 of us (me, my H and my OW) went out to lunch (after he picked us up at a hotel/spa--horrid, I know!), and we were being seated at a booth. She instinctively went to sit beside me since we'd been together that entire weekend alone. Instead, my H said, "Can I sit next to her?", and he sat next to me. Yup, she was put in her place. Little moments like that snapped us into reality.

Anyway, YES, my OW and I fought early on in our relationship. Being 3000 miles apart and having our own real lives was stressful. Our relationship together wasn't "Disneyland"!!!! It was far from it--it took work, and it had its ups and downs, but we were always drawn back together until the end.

As far as my OW wanting her marriage to work, I doubt it! I know her and I know what her marriage consisted of, and I'm sure that she's just trying to sail on by, keeping the peace. Her H is pretty easy to please--he likes a lot of time on his own, and he's a simple guy. He doesn't want a lot from his wife, other than to have her take care of the bills, take care of the kids, and be his "secretary" once in a while (that's what she said she felt like--he'd expect her to make appointments for him and to remind him of things.). Anyway, I'm SURE that their marriage isn't blissful. I'm sure that he won't forgive her and more importantly she won't ever be able to forgive herself--it's how she felt all along, although she said that her feelings for me were stronger (up until she ended it).

That all being said, I'm NOT thinking of her and her life constantly. I've been thinking about mine, and my H's and my children's. We're all taking a much-needed family vacation next week to the Bahamas. It should be really nice. We're looking forward to some alone-time together. We'll see what happens.

Take care. I hope that your road to recovery with your wife is even more successful and wonderful in the future.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">“As far as my OW wanting her marriage to work, I doubt it! I know her and I know what her marriage consisted of, and I'm sure that she's just trying to sail on by, keeping the peace.”
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you know that for a fact or this is something you want to believe so you can feel better about yourself? Sorry for being so direct, but that statement hit home!

The reason I say this is because I am almost 100% sure my wife’s OM thinks the same about my marriage with Myrta.

Stanley,

I know it for a fact!! She'd tell me that constantly! I've been beside her, through her ups and downs with him! She was waiting for him to be everything she wanted, and then she'd be disappointed to the point of depression! She did get better about it and not have such high expectations, but then it seemed like she was going through her marriage in a sleep-like state. It was sad. I saw it first hand too!

Although it is THEIR relationship, and if it works for them, great, but I have never seen a marriage like that. Most of the time she'd say that she felt like a single parent. She'd be frustrated and angry with him. She wasn't allowed to complain because she said he'd take it out on her and make her life "more miserable", so she had to suffer in silence.

We used to have discussions about whose marriage had more open communication. I always thought mine did. She thought hers was normal. Anyway, I just told Myrta that I found her posting on another message board, and from reading her posts, her life is back where it was before. Sounds like they're living their separate lives, but friendly nonetheless (when they're not arguing). It DOES sound like they're spending more family time together with the children, and for that I'm very happy. Her kids deserved to see a mother and father interact with them. I just miss them a lot.

Anyway, it doesn't make it easier on me to think that her marriage isn't blissful now. I just know how it is judging by what she says and by how it was in the past. I'm sure that the end of the A has brought about some change, and lots of bad things too (like his mistrust of her--something he NEVER saw coming!). It's THEIR issue now.

CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "I know it for a fact!! She'd tell me that constantly! I've been beside her, through her ups and downs with him! She was waiting for him to be everything she wanted, and then she'd be disappointed to the point of depression!" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think many WSs talk out of both sides of the mouth after D-day. This is a natural process to smooth things out.

They may tell the spouse:

"I am sorry I did this and I want to stay married to you. I now see that life with OP would not be as good as life with you. I love you; what we have is so special. The truth is that the OP does not measure or comes close to you."

Then they say to OP:

"I am sorry we couldn't work things out, however you will always be very special----- our relationship was so beautiful. However, I must try and work things out with my spouse even if things are bleak. I must sacrifice for the children and family, I have no choice. I hope you can forgive me!"

Most WS don't want to lower the hammer on the OPwith great force and they refuse to cut ties abruptly. I know my wife tried to cut abruptly and it was very hard on her. She felt a need to let go the OM very slowly over time and to use rhetoric that was not harsh. She said to OM I must work on my marriage over and over. I am sure the OM thinks her marriage is hell. In fact he offered Myrta a marriage that would be a constant adventure 24/7. If you read JL's latest response to Myrta you will see that folks in affairs are disconnected from reality. In this case Myrta's OM was out to lunch and had no clue. At least my wife had a much better grasp and understood immediately that life with OM was not realistic at all. She sort of knew this during the affair and when the OM would make plans about their wedding, ect. My wife would not say anything to the contrary, but deep inside she knew it was all BS. She was not going to leave a secure situation for an OM who has failed in prior relationships. In addition the OM was not well equipped to support the overwhelming majority of her ENs. There is a reason why OM failed in prior relationships---- he probably has huge flaws which he carefully hid from my wife.

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Stanley,

Wow! Very interesting! My OW didn't speak from both sides of her mouth, as far as I knew. I didn't get to speak to her after D Day though. She ended it abruptly. I wish we got to speak and clear things up-even one more time. It would have given me so much closure. I could see her sucking up to her H and telling him that the A was a mistake and that I "forced" her into it and that I was in Disneyland, but I knew that SHE wanted to be in the A too. She did try to pull out of it for the past year, and she tried to be my friend and tried to make me realize why she couldn't go on with the A. All it did was make me wonder what I did wrong to make her want to end something that she wanted so badly. She and her H weren't on any better path, and she certainly wasn't working on their marriage. She just couldn't take the deception, but all I saw was that *I* somehow wasn't good enough any more, and that ate away at my self-confidence for the first time in my life! I NEVER would have entered the A if I knew I'd be heartbroken like that.

It's so strange to hear what your wife went through, because I'm on the other end of that, and I wouldn't have been in "Dianeyland" if my OW hadn't been right there with me, assuring me that she wanted to be there with me! SHE made her marriage seem horrid and I was there to "save" her. I wouldn't have even had possible thoughts about having a life with her if I didn't feel loved, wanted and SO needed by her. That's why her total change-about floored me. I thought she needed me SO much! Guess it WAS her talking from both sides of her mouth?? I don't know...

CC

ConfusedCheater <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I understand that you dont want to accept that your OW, does not want to be with you.
But, if WE all knew how much suffering is in having AFFAIRS, they would not exist!!! I am sure she did not want to have an A with you, but like her with YOU, you fullfilled some of the needs she was lacking in her marriage. I am sure, completely sure, her Marriage is not as bad as she painted. Was YOURS? No, you said it yourself, you were the envy of many. but you still had the affair. The same with me, my marriage was not bad, but I convinced myself that it was. And when I convinced myself that it was bad, it was so much easier to do what I did!!! My marriage is BAD now, becauise of what I did. Now, there is mistrust, anger, sadness,etc,etc. None of that exist before.
See your A as something that it had to happened, but only GOD knows the reason. But maybe, some reasons could be, to make you realize what you have, to make the other woman aware what she has. To make your husband more attentive to you. I really dont know.
Let her,the OW, try to re=construct her marriage in peace. You do the same with yours. Your husband is willing to do it, to give you the opportunity, just like mine.
Dont think she is a horrible person, because she is not. She was just seeking something that she thought she was lacking!! I am sure she is not at peace right now, I am sure she has regrets, I am sure she misses YOU very much. But it is best, she knows it, YOU know it, to have ended the AFFAIR.
Take care!
Myrta

Myrta,

Thanks for your words. They help. Just want to add that I didn't portray my marriage as bad (to myself or to my OW). It progressively DID get worse as my OW and I got deeper and deeper into our A. I was neglecting spending time with my H and our marriage suffered. I used to convince myself in the beginning of the A that I was in love with both of them, and that I was just loving 2 people at the same time. My OW wasn't in the same boat--she was lacking a lot from her H and she wasn't happy in her marriage.

At least you got the benefit of speaking with your OM and tried to hash things out, right? That's all I would have wanted--to end things more civilly and to work things out in my head before I moved on and figured out why I had the A, and where my marriage now stands.

It took ("is taking"??) a long time to get over the pain of not getting that closure from my OW. I spent 3 years with her, being her best friend, her confidante, and then she fell off the face of the earth and didn't ever want to speak to me again. It was as though she died. *I* prefer to go over things and hash them out before moving on. That's why I can't understand my H not asking me questions about the A. I'd be grilling him daily (like Stanley did) to figure it all out. That's the way my mind works. So, this has been hard, but I see myself coming out of the "fog" more daily, and I see myself beginning to be able to think more about my marriage, and about my H and HIS feelings. I have a long way to go though!!

Have a good day everyone. I'm off to see my grandmother (she's 93!).

CC

ConfusedCheater <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I feel so bad that you are still seeking closure!! Yes, I did hash things a bit with my OM, but it was not really all that great. I was doing better before I saw him that last time. I did not liked when I saw that he was still trying to grab to whatever he thought we had. I felt like a horrible woman!!
ConfusedCheater, I think your getting better is going to take a bit longer than the average WW. And that is,becasuse you now have doubts too about your sexuality. So you are dealing with two issues, not only the withdrawal of the affair, but also you dont know if you want what you had until now with your husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I dont think, like I said before, that youare bisexual or gay. You fell in love with her personality, her ways. It could had been a man, or a woman. I have a friend that once told me,(she is not gay) that she thought the pleasure of the flesh is probably the same, no matter who gives it to you. Because it is al sensations, emotions, . What I am trying to say, is that you got completely inmersed in her ways, in her touch,but I dont think that makes you a lesbian-gay. You are mix up, and thats why you cannot let your husband touch you. Let him touch you, let him make love to you, all the old feelings, and good sensations will come back. Mine are coming back, actually they were never gone, they were just in a "doormant" state.
You feel hurt, because you think she did not care or love you. I am sure she did!!! I am sure she still thinks about you. Maybe she was advised by a counselor or maybe by JL, that the NC it s very necessary, for the good of both of you. She does nt want to hurt you or herself anymore!
Take care!
Myrta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At least you got the benefit of speaking with your OM and tried to hash things out, right? That's all I would have wanted. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no benefit to you unless you want to try to convince your lover to take you back. Myrta's OM wanted exactly the same things you wanted. He wanted friendship if he could not be the OM. BS!!!!!!!------- he simply wanted to re-start the affair. He wanted to send Myrta a cell phone so they could talk and and I would have never known about it since OM would be the one receiving the phone bill.

In many ways what you write is very similar to what the OM of Myrta said (I read his emails after D-day). You and Myrta's OM are quite similar. Closure was the excuse of Myrta's OM. In reality he wanted to break our marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 'I spent 3 years with her, being her best friend, her confidante, and then she fell off the face of the earth and didn't ever want to speak to me again. It was as though she died. *I* prefer to go over things and hash them out before moving on."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CC, his may sound harsh, but you are showing classic OP behavior. I think your lover was advised to follow the NC method. If you read this site that is the best way to go thru withdrawal.

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Myrta,

I wanted to keep our FRIENDSHIP going for the past year, although it was very, very hard on me. I felt so upset again and again that she could be okay with ditching the rest of our relationship. Didn't I mean enough to her? It was all hurtful to me. I guess *I* wanted to be the one to end the A, or I wanted that decision to somehow be mutual. Didn't happen. In the back of my mind, every day I DID hope for her to "come to her senses" and want me back desperately. I had dreams of hurting her and telling her that I couldn't go through with an A again if she told me she wanted me back!

You're right-I'm dealing with a lack of closure AND the sexuality issues. I guess it IS harder. Just a little while ago, I was reading some posts of hers from today (from a messageboard that she just joined) and she spoke about things going on. I figured that this peek into her life would somehow help me. Maybe I'd hear some pain in her "tone" and I'd feel reassured that she DID care more than she's admitting to now. In any event, she now says that she's trying to eliminate negative people from her life and she's trying to surround herself with positiveness. She wants to be able to know at the end of the day that she's done the right thing. She wasn't speaking about me-she was speaking about a family member (who is nasty and controlling), but I read between the lines and figured that she eliminated ME from her life because our relationship became too negative.

I sat here, just a short time ago, and cried my eyes out. How could she move on? Did she move on? From her posts, it sounds like she did. I don't know what I expected to read, and I probably should stop hurting myself more by reading anything she writes anymore, but I'm STILL looking for some acknowledgement or closure. I thought I was doing better, and I'm knocked off of my feet tonight.

Thanks for what you said. I appreciate your input and wish you well every day. You sound like a great woman!

CC

Stanley,

I've answered some of your post in my response to Myrta. I'm having a really bad night here. Just wanted to tell you that I REALLY did want to maintain our friendship. I did have it in the back of my head that I wanted her back, but I didn't force it, and was happy to have her friendship.

You're probably right-she's been advised (probably by her H) to NC with me to get on with her life. The problem there is that I would have faired MUCH better having known that it was hard for her, or that she'd miss me, or even that she cared about me, and that our years together DID mean something to her. My BIGGEST fear is that she now thinks nothing of me. Worse yet, that she thinks I was a waste of her time and I was just a source of negativity in her life.

She sounds like she's doing fine (according to her posts on a messageboard--yet they say NOTHING about me--I'm just guessing on the "tone" of her posts and from what she says). Is that so stupid that I want/need some acknowledgement from her? How could I have let this person have THAT much power over me that I STILL care what she thinks?? It's not good--that much I know.

Anyway, thanks for your input. You and Myrta have been very helpful to me and you've given me reason to think about things. Tonight, however, I feel sick to my stomach over her ALL OVER AGAIN. Just when I think I'm progressing, I take a huge step back. Sad.......

CC

CC,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wanted to keep our FRIENDSHIP going for the past year, although it was very, very hard on me. I felt so upset again and again that she could be okay with ditching the rest of our relationship. Didn't I mean enough to her? It was all hurtful to me. I guess *I* wanted to be the one to end the A, or I wanted that decision to somehow be mutual. Didn't happen. In the back of my mind, every day I DID hope for her to "come to her senses" and want me back desperately. I had dreams of hurting her and telling her that I couldn't go through with an A again if she told me she wanted me back!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has it ever crossed your mind that your H could say the same thing about you. In fact, he may be thinking and feeling the same things you are except you are the one that left him high and dry and you still are.

I am guessing he has not asked you any questions because he feels he knows enough for now,given that you are not sure you want to continue the marriage. Why bother to know, if you are not even going to try and rebuild the marriage? He might want to know somethings IF you ever indicate to him that you want to rebuild.

You have been essentially gone from the marriage for 3 years. I am guessing you were also gone to some degree from your children's lives as well. You were so focused on your OW.

I would really like you to stop and really focus on ALL you feel you lost when your OW withdrew from the relationship, and realize that your H and your children LOST just as much from someone who they were supposed to be able to trust.

Your H has lost MORE than you have and I suspect he will be seeking closure as well, if you don't start to really look at what you have done and are doing to those around you. Your focus on the OW, is at a huge cost to those that love you. Don't you think that people that really love you deserve your focus, attention, and yes love? I do.

God Bless,

JL

ConfusedCheater- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Oh my gosh!!! of course she thinks about you, You were part of her life for three whole years. Thats a long time.
Just because she does not mention you in that forum that she goes to, does not mean she does not even remember your name.
If she was never with a woman before, just like you, I am so sure she is not going to forget you, You were special to her, like she was to you.
What is happening with her, is that she is more realistic than you. She knows it would never work, because you and her are already married with children. It is not like you are starting in life . There are a lot of consecuences and people hurt if you two would decide to make a life together. She knows it just would not work! You have to realize that too.
Dont worry about your setback of last night. That will happen several times. Until one day you realize they are getting more and more sparce in between. My husband and I have setbacks still. And it makes me really sad and worry, that we are never going to make it. But WE are getting better, we really are.
Please dont be sad, you will be fine. Give a chance to your husband. It does get better,if you two make love, it will make you feel closer to him. It will help you forget the OW.
I am here to help you get thru it. And also what you say help me too.
Like you, at the beginning I wanted to know that the OM was still thinking about me. That he still wanted me. That was very important for me , to know that. My husband did not understand that. But I think it is normal to feel that way. You dont want to think that you were NOTHING in someones life, that they could forget you so fast. But YOU and I know it is not possible. YOu are the clear example, you still think about her. I still think about the OM, and I am sure your OW still thinks about you.
Myrta <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />