I know you are probably all gonna chew me out for this but I just sent the OM an email. Here is what I wrote...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
(OM),

I just have a few questions to ask. Answer them if you wish, if not I guess it's no big deal.

How long has this been going on between you and (my W)?

What exactly is going on between you and her?

Just so you know here is a copy of the email I saw her send you:
---------------------------------
copied the email that I posted above.
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I know what (my W) told me happened, but I guess I would like to hear your side of it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ September 26, 2004, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: marriage is forever? ]</small>

MIF - while your daugthers are probably too young right now, have you ever thought about the reaction from a teenager when you tell them they can't do something?

Take marijuana for example. If you take it away from them, tell them how it can easily lead to more destructive habits and more addictive substances, etc., the reaction you are most likely to get is complete denial and "anger" at your "butting into their business."

YOU know what is right and you know what "must be done." You can't stop them if they are determined, but you sure can, and should, make it as hard as possible for them to self-destruct.

Your wife is "Fogland." Do not take much, if anything, that she says too seriously.

Yes, the EN's are important and you had better pay attention to them, but do NOT expect any reciprocal reaction or even appreciation for your efforts for quite some time. You simply DO what is right and what you should have been doing all along anyway. I'm betting you didn't know much, if anything, about EN's before coming here to MB(much like the rest of us). So put them into practice and be patiently waiting for them to "sprout" and eventually bring in a "harvest" that will feed you as well as your wife.

Hang in there.

Mif,

Please go back and read some of the good advice you're getting right now....instead of acting impulsively on your own. Much of this stuff is counter-intuitive and you need help not shooting yourself in the foot. What do you hope to gain from the OM? Truth, integrity??? This is the guy who slept with your wife....he doesn't care what you need.

I guess I just don't think my wife is being totally honest with me. I am with her. I have laid everything out in the open, if she asks me anything I giver an honest answer. I was hoping maybe to get "his side of the story" to compare. I know, stupid of me but I just want her to be honest as well. If I am making the effort I feel she should too.

Thanks again for all the advise. I know that this is my problem and you don't have to come here and offer any assistance if you didn't want to.

MIF?

MIF - Let me get this right. She contacted OM after she wrote the no contact letter?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> MIF - Let me get this right. She contacted OM after she wrote the no contact letter? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, via telephone on her way to her aunt's house. (at least she told me though. She did put it to me something like this. "Just to let you know I did call (OM) last night. I didn't want you finding out by looking at the phone records") I can't help but wonder if she met up with him that night too.

As for the letter, I guess I should say that I don't think she sent the letter because she wanted to or felt it was the right thing to do. Hell, she had me write it and put in what I wanted, so I did. Then figured she would change it into her own words which she didn't. She told me that he said it didn't sound like she wrote it.

Another thing is I told her about this site and the messages I have been posting. I sent her links to these threads so that she can see my feelings, but don't think she has even looked yet. I guess if she told me that she was here and posting messages, I would want to know what her feelings are. Maybe for once I would know her true feelings.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ September 26, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: marriage is forever? ]</small>

Does she understand that she has to have no contact with OM? If so, why is she still having contact? I'm mixed up.

I really don't thnink she cares. She thinks I am being unreasonable.

So did you read what I said about "exposure"? If she thinks you're being unreasonable, that's a good way for her to see that most folks won't agree with her. Dontcha think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> So did you read what I said about "exposure"? If she thinks you're being unreasonable, that's a good way for her to see that most folks won't agree with her. Dontcha think? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I did read that. I just would have a hard time doing that. (I know, I know). It's just that I am a very private person and don't like to dump my problems on friends and family (no offense to you all here, but this is anonymous, I guess it's more of a pride thing. I don't want friends and family to know of my problems.) That's part of the reason I don't even talk to my W about what bothers me and part of the reason I am where I am. I guess I should listen to what I am saying and see that it obviously doesn't work.

So confused about what to do...

mif,

I have seen more folks avoid exposure because of pride than I count. Your pride isn't going to keep you warm at night chere. Your pride is probably one of the reasons your marriage is in this state to begin with....because you don't share your honest self and your weaknesses with your wife. I can't tell you what to do....I can only tell you what works. Ending affairs is a messy business. Do you think you'll be able to keep your divorce a secret? Nope. Folks are going to find out anyway...the question is....will they find out when it might still save your marriage. The choice is yours.

Star, you make a valid point there. I just am apprehensive. God this is so confusing. If only I could make up my mind.

Let me ask this. Is it normal for a person in my situation to want to believe their spouse when they say that they don't have feelings for this other person, it was just something that happened? I mean, she tells me that they were sitting there and she got the hiccups, they were laughing about it and joking around and he leaned in and kissed her. She told him to stop because she didn't want it to get out of hand. I want to believe that but, then again she ended up going back to his place and slept in the same bed as him. Supposedly nothing happened while they were in bed together, but who knows. I guess, I should look up an old female friend of mine and spend the night with her in the same bed, maybe my W would then understand what I am going through.

<small>[ September 26, 2004, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: marriage is forever? ]</small>

mif,

There is nothing wrong with wanting to believe her. I don't know exactly what she did....and you may never know exactly either. I'm far far more concerned about where you go from here. She has ALREADY told you she doesn't want to end contact. She is showing very little remorse. She has already broken the vow not to contact. This is where the trouble is. I'm not nearly as worried about what has already happened, as I am about what WILL happen if she resumes contact. If she breaks contact again....I think you need to expose this affair. Is the OM married? If so...the first call is to his wife....or gf if he has one. If that doesn't end contact...then you might have to talk to other people. Did he answer your letter btw?

No he is not married, nor does he have a girlfriend. He did not answer my email either. I'm not surprised about that. I may never know if she contacts him in the future though, that's the only problem.

Oh well, I keep going back and forth in my mind about whether I should try and get through this or just prepare my self emotionally for a D. Right now I am severely depressed and thinking I should just numb myself up and try and move on with my life.

Thanks again for replying. It is nice to have someone to speak to.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
MIF?

<small>[ September 26, 2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: marriage is forever? ]</small>

mif,

Again chere....this is NOT the time to make decisions about your future....you are in too much pain to use clear logical thinking. Why are you so convinced that you won't know if she made contact?...you knew she called him after the NC letter. Chances are, if she remains unfaithful...you will know. You will know by the way she acts and the secrecy she uses. Believe me, you won't need to be a rocket scientist to pick up the signs now that you are aware of what's going on. Hang in there. Give us an update on how things are going.

<small>[ September 27, 2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> mif,

Again chere....this is NOT the time to make decisions about your future....you are in too much pain to use clear logical thinking. Why are you so convinced that you won't know if she made contact?...you knew she called him after the NC letter. Chances are, if she remains unfaithful...you will know. You will know by the way she acts and the secrecy she uses. Believe me, you won't need to be a rocket scientist to pick up the signs now that you are aware of what's going on. Hang in there. Give us an update on how things are going. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, the only reason I knew was because she told me. Of course my gut told me she was going to call him before she did. She couldn't just let it go with the letter. As far as if I will know if she is continuing to contact him, I hope you are right. I hope I will be able to notice. One thing is that she is a pretty good liar. She can look me right in the eyes and not waiver a bit.

As far as where we are at today, I called a MC, and he can't squeeze us in 'till 11-1-04! Man that's a long time! I could look for another one but this is smalltown USA and there isn't a whole lot to choose from.

Until then I guess it's Plan A all the way. That's hard to do when you gut is churning inside. It's just funny because I don't see that she's hurting over this. I can't sleep. Whenever I lay down all I can think about is "Us" and I can't fall asleep. I guess, what I am saying is, I don't have a lot of confidence in "us" right now. She seems pretty emotionless toward me.

I have told her in the past that I don't think I can change and I never thought I could, but I am gonna try. I do have a very hard time expressing my feelings and I am trying to do that. It's funny how I can come here and put my feelings down, but I can't say them to her.

Great, my sister-in-law just called and wants to come up next weekend. I couldn't say no so I said sure come on up. Now I will have my brother and his family here to add to the tension already present.

Anyway, I rambling now.

Thanks again,

MIF?

mif....ever thought of phone counseling. You could call the Harleys or Penny Tupy at symc. I don't know what the Harleys backlog is like...but I think Penny could help you guys before November.

Remember that Plan A has more parts than just filling needs and not lovebusting. Don't forget the other parts. If you truly believe she is still contacting him....I urge you to consider exposure. Her family visiting might be a better opportunity than you realize. Perhaps your SIL would be a good place to begin. Exposure must be done lovingly...and without malice. Your intent and motivation must be clear....to save the marriage and to get help from people who love your wife to encourage her to do the right thing.

Hang in there buddy.

Just thought I'd mention I spoke to Penny yesterday. She is willing to take you and can do so quickly if you're interested in going that route. Let me know....she's a great coach and can help you and your wife get on the same page. Good Luck.

star*fish,
Thanks, let me run it by my W. Does Penny take BCBS? How does this work? What can I expect. Just would like to be able to inform the W.

Thanks for all your help.


As a side note, I came to the conclusion that I have been depressed for the better part of the last 6 - 7 years. I went to the Dr. this morning and she put me on some anti-depressants. That was hard for me to admit with my damn pride and all. Hopefully they will help.

MIF?

Ok, I just realilzed that Penny is the person in the marriage coach link you posted earlier. I should be able to look up the info there.